Independent Lens

Announcer

Life is full of nuanced social interactions.

Man

We all, evidently, come equipped with a social antenna that we don't even realize we have.

Announcer

Finding love is the most intricate of them all. But when the way you interact with people is different from everyone else...

Different man

Love is a very abstract concept that many people with autism have a hard time grasping. There's no way to quantify it.

Announcer

it makes things just that much more complicated. In "Autism in Love," filmmaker Matt Fuller gives a new and authentic perspective on the intimate relationships of people with autism in their search for true love.

Man

You know, you want me to tell you something really interesting, man? I was gonna wear a suit in this interview, but I thought it would have been too much, so I might as well put these nice sweatpants on and this nice shirt on. It's a little too-- you know, too much, I think. But next time, when we have a good interview, I'll wear a suit, OK?

Woman

One thing I will mention is that at times, you know, if you ask a question, there may be oc-occasions where I--it may take me a little while to respond, um, but that's only because, um, it's-- I'm just trying to process the--the incoming speech, and then I'm trying to verbally process the answer. So you may hear a pause, you know, at times, so... Man,

voice-over

I'm from St. Paul, Minnesota. I--I like living in St. Paul. Different man, I never knew for sure if I was gonna get married or not, so that is something that, um, I never was really fixated on doing. It's always been important to me to have somebody in my life, but whether or not I was married to that person, I wasn't sure about. So, what kind of questions you got to ask me? Good. I feel good about documentaries. I'm comfortable with looking at-- anywhere on the camera, actually, so... Hello? I'd like to buy a cigar. Yeah. Just one? Let me see that big one up there. Hey, I got something to ask you. Did you hear about that one basketball coach that lived a long time ago? What happened to him? The bask--the Celtics coach... Uh-huh. Red Auerbach. Did you ever hear about that guy? No. I'll tell you what he did. Tell me what you think about this, OK? Every time--OK. He was stubborn, arrogant, and he was a jerk, OK? All right. And every time he won a big game-- he won 9 championships-- OK. Every time he won a big game, he would-- He'd smoke a cigar. He would smoke a cigar, and-- It's a celebration. Hold on. He would rub it in the other team's face. Well, it's a cele-- No, he would, like... He was-- It's a celebration. How much is this thing? That's $9.80. Out of $10.

Cash register beeps

voice-over

20 cents back. Would you like a bag? I'm good. Have a great weekend. You, too.

Woman

I knew that there was something special with Lenny right away. And he would always, like, move his hands, like, he would, like, get excited and move his hands, and he was very--always really, really meticulous about stuff, even when he was little, like where it needed to be. He just--when he wouldn't talk, I knew that there was something going on. It's been hard. You've got this kid that doesn't really want to be autistic, and Lenny's smart enough to know that he's different, and he doesn't like it. That's a big, big struggle. Lenny,

voice-over

Sometimes in my life, I try to pretend I was never autistic. I felt like I had to hide it from people because if they heard you were it, then they would kind of... kind of laugh at you a little bit. People would think to me, like, you know, "He's cool," and when they found out I was in that situation, they would be like, "Oh, he's kind of a weird kid. We shouldn't be hanging out with him." Sometimes I feel a little bit scared because let's say you go-- you see a girl and she likes you and all this stuff, and maybe if you admit that you're autistic, maybe she'll be like, "I don't want to be with you no more because you're autistic." I don't know. That could be a little hurtful, a little bit. I'm single, by the way. I've been single for a long time. Had one girlfriend, but it didn't quite work out that well. I don't want to talk about that. Is that OK? It's just, you know, bad memories. She was really not very nice, and I know that sex was a really big issue because she had wanted to have sex and Lenny didn't want to, and, um, they split up for a while, and then when he got back together with her, they ended up having sex, and it wasn't, like, a good thing. Like, I really didn't realize how little Leonard knew until recently. Like, he didn't know anything. I just want to tell those young kids, "Don't have sex yet." You know, you're gonna get screwed one day. Well, you can have sex with the girl or the guy for both of you when--I feel like it doesn't have to happen the first day. No way. You're jumping the gun. You're shooting the gun right away. You've got to do it when it's, like, a couple of months into it, man. Or maybe a year. When you get married. That's what I think. Don't have sex on the first date. That's not love right there. That's just--that's not love when you do it on the first date, when you meet someone for the first time or-- that's called reckless love. That's called reckless.

Kathy

He's lonely. He wants a girlfriend. And his dad's not around, and he just doesn't have that positive male role model to kind of tell him, like, "This is how you do it. This is what you do. "This is"--you know, he's got me. He's got Mom.

Indistinct voice on TV

Dave

I met Lindsey at a national autism conference from the Autism Society of America in Nashville, Tennessee, in July of 2005. We started calling it a relationship in the fall of that year, maybe 3 or 4 months later when we met up at another conference, and I asked her, "How would you feel about being in a relationship with me?" She said, "Well, I'm confused, but I could see if this maybe-- this may work." She was confused at first, but she could see this working. "We'll give it a try."

Door opens

Dave

Hi! Hi! How are you? I'm good. Welcome home. Thank you. Lindsey,

voice-over

I think that autism definitely presents unique challenges to our relationship. Our particular routines and rigidities and our--our particular comfort zones and... we're so fixated on--on that that it's sometimes difficult to communicate to each other. Love your necklace. Oh! Thanks. Do you know-- did I ever tell you, um, one bene-- one reason I love jewelry so much is because it gives me a, um--a sort of a sh--a shield to sort of protect myself from sort of vulnerable elements? That's--that's news to me, actually. I didn't know that. Oh, really? Vulnerable elements. Yeah. I kind of discovered that after wearing necklaces for the past several--you know, the past--especially the last 10 years. I've really been into wearing heavy jewelry, and I discovered a reason why it was-- that it kind of makes me--because I feel so vulnerable and feel so, um, shy and... Mm-hmm. you know, introverted that wearing the jewelry kind of makes me feel that sort of false sense of confidence, and it kind of makes me feel less vulnerable. It makes me feel like it's sort of a shield, sort of protect myself from feeling, um, more--more vulnerable. Well, it looks like the weather just came on. I was gonna, like, catch a glimpse here and see what he says about the-- Oh, of course. I can't ever interrupt you from the weather. Well, you can always s-- be near me, but I may not talk to you as much. Yeah, but--

Increases TV volume

Man on TV

47. Not gonna fall that fast tonight. Winds are still gonna be a factor. Northwest at 16. I'm gonna go. I'll be right back. OK. And it should all be finished tomorrow night, which is a good thing. Satellite picture... and lots of sunshine and 64 on Monday. Chance of showers and rain Monday night into Tuesday...

Music box playing

Man on TV

Should we go rock in your rocking chair? Shall we? Man,

voice-over

We tried to treat her as normally as we possibly could, all the time making allowances in our own mind for the fact that she might not be able to do everything quite as fast or quite as well or something like that but just trying to raise her as normally as we possibly could. Here we go. Ah! Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Come on. Lindsey? Gordon, We all, evidently, come equipped with a social antenna that we don't even realize we have. We know instinctively when we are getting too close to someone physically, when we seem to be pushing them a little further than they want to be pushed, when maybe we should back off and not be quite so bossy or controlling. Lindsey didn't have the antenna.

Gordon

Lindsey, can you wave? Say--Lindsey. Here's the water. Lindsey.

Woman

She just asked me to put the hat back on her.

Different woman

Cute.

Gordon

Lindsey.

Toddler crying

Gordon

Can you wave? Can you wave?

Child

Yeah.

Gordon

Yeah. Gordon,

voice-over

It's sort of mystifying, but the absence of that antenna, very hard. That was very challenging for her. She wanted to fit in.

Man

Oh. Has anybody seen Lindsey?

Group

Where is Lindsey?

Laughter

Woman

There she is! There she is. Yeah. Lesser-known names for 600, please.

Alex Trebek

Senator Robert Wagner sponsored the act--

Man

What is the National Labor Relations Board? What is the National Labor Relations Board?

Alex

Rob.

Rob

What is the National Labor Relations Board?

Alex

Correct.

Rob

Compound words for 400.

Alex

Motorcyclist Evel Knievel is called this on his tombstone... What's a daredevil? and by the Smithsonian.

Man

What's a daredevil?

Alex

Joshua.

Joshua

What is a daredevil?

Alex

That's it. I did very well, huh? You did very well. Thank you. I'm proud of you. Thank you.

Monday at 6

30...

Matt

What are you having for dinner tonight? Uh, sole--fish with mashed potatoes. Have you got mashed potatoes?

Woman

Not yet.

Matt

Are you cooking? My mother is cooking. Oh, OK. Do you ever cook? I cook hot dogs every Sunday. I cook hot dogs every Sunday. When he was young, did you think that he would be capable of a romantic relationship?

Sigh

Matt

No. I didn't dare hope. I didn't dare hope. Man,

voice-over

Although, uh, his expression was not there, but he had knowledge.

Stephen reading prayer in Hebrew

Mother

But of course, he still does not elaborate and doesn't express himself too--too well about his real feelings. His language is still not up to the way it should be. He talks, and he communicates, and... But in a certain way. In a certain way.

Matt

So tell me more about your job, Stephen. Well, I was doing assembly work, and I was working in stamps, and I worked on trays. What's trays? Trays just means to fold for the U-- for the United States Postal Service. Oh, OK. And so when you do stamps, what--tell me what you have to do for stamps. To put them in envelopes. How many do you do a day, would you say? Uh, 500. Wow. That's a big workload. Yes. Wow. And how many hours a day do you work? 8 hours,

from 7

00

until 3

00. OK. How do you get to work? By bus. Do you take one bus or more than one? Just the bus. Just one bus. Just one bus. Yes. Oh. Do you like the bus? Yes. Edith,

voice-over

Our aim was he should become independent. He should be able to hold down a job. That, thank God, we accomplished without him being institutionalized.

Lenny

He's a bad man, this guy.

Kathy

What's up, dude?

Lenny

What's up, Mom? Let me finish up the game first. Come on. So we talked about a dating website a little bit. Yeah. I think I might want to do that. What would you put if you were, like, putting, like-- I don't know. It's hard to say. I like to keep it private to me and you only. I'm gonna be serious. I'm not gonna be no joking around. OK, if you were gonna put on a dating website, like, your interests-- Sports. OK. What else? You wouldn't put-- how come you wouldn't put any of, like, the Comic-Con stuff? Do you think that's silly? Nope. I won't do it. How come? Because I don't want to. OK. That's you. That's-- But why don't you-- you don't want to find somebody that likes that kind of stuff, too? Nope. So, what other interests would you put? I don't know. I'll be taken more serious. So you want, like, a serious girl? Yeah, a little bit. OK. A businesswoman? No, not completely, but I pay for the dates. Me. That's the way it goes. OK. That's the way the show goes. I'm not gonna let her pay for everything and me, you know, I got to be the one that... is the more independent one than her. But I don't think that that's fair. No, it is fair. Kind of chauvinistic. No, it's not. I think a little bit. I mean, what if there's a woman out there that is perfect for you but she makes more money than you do? Nope. I won't take her. I'm serious. I won't take her.

Kathy

He does not want to be different. He just wants to be like everybody else, so then he goes above and, like, kind of goes beyond trying to fit in, and everybody-- I can see they're like, "Why is he acting like this?" Like, we all know Lenny's special, so he just needs to be who he is, and he's not. He tries to be something different.

Lenny

I need to be the one making more money. I hear so many things about-- I hear so many YouTube videos about women. By men. OK-- No. It's a woman saying, "Don't be with broke-ass men." Wow. These are the kind of women-- No, they're trying to inform the women not to be with broke men, and I don't want to be-- I don't want to be a broke male with a woman. I don't want her paying for everything. I need to be the one-- You don't have to be paying for everything-- or she doesn't have to be paying for everything. You could be paying for stuff, but when you get into a relationship with somebody, you're supposed to be their partner. Partner. Well, I need to be the one doing more. That's the way it goes. I don't think that's the way it goes. I think that you're being misinformed by people that are just not really great people. I think you're being misinformed. I'm not. I think you are. What if you find somebody-- and I'm just saying if you love somebody, it shouldn't matter. It should be, like, you just love her, and maybe one day you'll be making more money, and you guys just support each other in that good kind of like foundation and-- It's just hard. It's just hard to believe that. Why? It's just about being the more independent one. But you will be independent. You're going to be independent. That is gonna happen, Lenny. Sometimes it takes a minute for people. It's hard. That transition from fricking--into manhood? That thing, that's hard. I know. I couldn't even-- it was hard-- I'm good, though, Mom. I'm trying to be good. Well, trying to be good how? I want you to feel good. I'm just going through a little bit of a struggle. I'm down on myself too many times, and it's too tough because I feel like I should be accept-- doing more in life. Do you think-- do you consider yourself like less sometimes? That's kind of what I get. Sometimes. Why? I feel different. I feel better than being autistic sometimes. Let's get past this. Let's get over this and get on with it because you're fricking awesome. I know. I know. I don't think you do. I know. I think you don't and you need to know. OK. I love you.

Kathy

He's really down on himself. I think once he starts working, he's gonna feel better about himself. He's gonna feel more productive, like he's out there doing something. Because right now he doesn't feel like he's doing anything.

Man on TV

Some points in Massachusetts and Rhode Island could see up to a foot of snow, and in New Jersey, well, the storm is certainly... Lindsey,

voice-over

I always knew I was different, even before I was informed of my diagnosis of autism, though I always felt like I was an odd character outside of my--my peers. But I didn't really understand why. I would often get turned away, or people would ignore me, and I--I thought, "Well, what am I doing wrong?" And even after learning about my own diagnosis, I still, for several years, struggled to figure out why I couldn't, um, maintain and keep friends, why I couldn't fit in, why I couldn't be accepted. Unfortunately, I think the first impressions I received, um, when I was learning about autism were quite negative, and as a result, I felt incredibly ashamed of being autistic. Every morning when I get ready, I look in the mirror before I step outside the house, and I think to myself, "Well, I look OK. I look OK today." And the moment I step outside the front door, I immediately become self-conscious. I've recognized pretty quickly that the way I perceive myself in the outside world is drastically different than the way I perceive myself in my own world. In some aspects and at some times, I do feel like I have found that personal happiness within myself, or that personal peace. But it's still very difficult for me to find acceptance of myself. I have just learned how to be a good actress.

Woman

I remember when you first started at work, and, um, I wasn't sure-- I wasn't necessarily sure what to expect because, you know, everybody on the spectrum is different, and... Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. you never know if somebody is going to be very outgoing or--you know, kind of the classic description of someone on the spectrum is not--you know, unfortunately, not interested, empathetic, you know, not into-- I always had this fear people would be staring at me, that... people can see right through me. I think it kind of relates to my frustration I've had over the years of... being pressured to fit into the social norm... that I'm not good enough if I don't fit in. Have you ever dated somebody who was on the spectrum before? Actually, all--all the guys I've dated prior to Dave were-- yeah, were not on the spectrum. So Dave is the first. And how is it different?

Dave

For me, it boils down to 3 things. I have a formula here. It's L plus P plus two T. So each part is 25%. So you have 25% of the P and L, and you have 50% of the T, which results to what that person's grade would be in terms of relationship and dating potential. Now, you're wondering, L is how they look physically-- physical appearance and attributes. The second--the P is personality. What is their lifestyle like? And most importantly is T is how they treat you. Treatment towards you. If--let's say, for example, that the person is relatively ugly. Then they get, like, a 50% category in the L category. But they have, you know, like a perfect personality and nearly perfect way they treat you, they're gonna score pretty well in the overall scheme of things. So the T has greater weight. It's twice as much weight in the formula than the personality and looks is how they treat you.

Playing piano

Lindsey

You know, it's funny with Dave. He--he's much more scientific, and I'm much more artistic. I think Dave is trying his best to understand me. I think he always has tried his best to understand me. I think it's still difficult for him to-- to really have that grip, though, of understanding, of why I have my particular issues.

Playing piano

Lindsey

You know, it's a very good question whether someone can love you without truly understanding you. I still think it's absolutely possible. Yeah. You know, obviously we have, from time to time, talked about marriage and, um, if we were to get married someday and kind of some of the fears we have with that. Um, uncertainties. Yeah, and idea of whether Lindsey would take my name or keep her own name. And talk about, like, prenuptial agreements and how they would be written out and, uh, financial matters, how they'd be, um, managed. Um, things like that. Yeah. And where the wedding would take place. Yeah, well, I think that's not really fears. I think that's just more of, you know, listing the pros and cons and kind of-- it's the whole idea of whether marriage is going to dictate that our identities are lost. That's kind of my main fear. I'd still support keeping our own identities. I mean, marriage is just a--kind of like a social title we would have, but we'd still have our own identities. Yeah. Of course. I would insist upon it. I mean, Dave has--has been through a lot with me, and he's still around, and that to me is definitely evidence of--of love.

Dave

I love it when she shows me physical, um, appreciation, when she holds me, hugs me, kisses me, smiles at me. I always love it when she comes to tuck me into bed at night. But I feel like she puts me very high up on her daily list. I feel like I'm very much important to her and that I'm a big part of her life. But the T score also ties in very much to how important that person makes you feel. If you don't--if you get the impression that person doesn't think you're important, that hurts your T score. When I was first dating her and first meeting her, I never had stronger feelings for anybody else ever before. The fact that they lasted for 8 years I think is a good signal that things were on a very solid course here.

Man on TV

...the winter we get in Memphis in the Midwest region.

Indistinct

Different man

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Chatter

Music playing

Man

When Stephen first saw Gita, he was introduced to her. Stephen said, "I'm going to marry her."

Laughter

Man

And after a few days, Gita said, "Let's set a date."

Laughter

Man

Well, the date is here, and this is the couple, and we hope that this marriage is from God. It's going to be a lasting marriage and a happy marriage. Stephen,

voice-over

I met Gita 20 years ago. It was on February 7, 1993.

Matt

What day of the week was that? It was on a Sunday. What did you say to her when you first met her? "Hello." And what did you think when you first met her? It's nice. It was beautiful. Are you in love with Gita? Yes, I'm in love with Gita. What does that mean? I don't know. It means to fall in love, to give a kiss and a hug. How do you know when you're in love? I don't know.

Max

Somebody suggested they knew of Gita. They said, "Maybe these two together-- "these two will get together. Maybe they'll make-- they'll make a couple."

Edith

They were kind of complementing each other. Gita is very verbal. That's what Stephen is lacking. Stephen has other qualities that she was lacking, so they really complemented each other.

Max

They lived happily for almost 17 years, and then unfortunately, Gita got ovarian cancer, and she's fighting with it for the last 3 years. Remember 3 years ago, Gita had chemo? 3 years ago.

Matt

What is chemo? I don't know. It's a disease. Is that bad? It's bad. So, what happened after chemo? I don't know. She went to the doctor. She went to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester. What happened there? Uh, she had to go-- yeah, she had tests for her cancer. She had tests. And what did the tests say? Uh, her condition is, uh, I don't know. Edith,

voice-over

Stephen is very hopeful about her sickness. He says, "Gita's not gonna die. She'll be all right."

Indistinct voice on TV

voice-over

Hi, Marlena. I feel a little better. I'm getting better. Hello. Hi, honey. Hello. Gita, The thing with Stephen is that he is... I find that he understands me in his own way. I have a learn--a mild learning disability, and, um--ahem-- so but still and all, I feel in a way that I can understand him because he can--because we both have something we cannot do and things we can do, but being that we have disabilities, we can... we can relate all the more. Tell me what else is new. Nothing. Nothing? Well, I--I relaxed all day... That's good. trying to feel better. Uh-huh. That's nice. Yeah. I don't know if this is the right thing to say, but I feel bad that he's not able to express himself, and I'm--and I try to encourage him, to make him feel as if he can, and you know something? He has improved a lot. How was your day? It was excellent. What did you do? Well, I worked-- I worked on towels today at MBI. Towels? What do they look like? Well, they look like, uh-- they look like wash towels. They look like dish towels. Oh, nice. What colors were they? They were purple. Oh, nice. What's your favorite color? Blue. Blue. And my favorite color is red. Well, that's nice. You have a nice hat, huh? Yeah. Just look at me. Yes. Relax. It's always difficult. It's always difficult, but I got used to it. I got used to it. It's extremely difficult, but I think if I were married to someone who it-- wasn't disabled or who isn't disabled, I'd have more of a problem because that person might be--be--ahem--demanding and want more out of me. So tell me more. Well, I'm going to eat dinner at my parents'. Oh, that's good. Well, I hope you'll feel better, and I'll see you later. See you later, honey. Thanks for dropping by and wishing me well. You're welcome.

Matt

How do you know that Stephen is in love with you?

Gita

Um... it's in the way he looks at me. I can tell. He gives me such loving eyes.

Dave

Love is a very abstract concept that many people with autism have a hard time grasping, and it's one of those things that's not concrete. As a scientist, I wish I could put it into perspective as a type of subatomic particle, but it's not. Love is basically more like a force. Like, in physics, you have forces-- forces of attraction-- and I have a feeling that love is--the best way to describe that is a force of attraction between two people that is neither visible, measurable, or heard. There's no way to quantify it.

Lenny

I'm feeling a little down about myself right now.

Matt

Why is that? I've just been down lately. I've been a little... sometimes you go through hard times in your life. I feel like I can't get a girl. I don't--there are no girls at my school. Everywhere I go, it's something about guys. I go home, I see my stepfather, and the only women I see are my good friends or my--my--my sister, like, girls are sort of like my sisters or my home girls, and that's so annoying. You don't see women anywhere. It's like--I feel like if someone came up to me and said, "Would you--would you want to go to a women's prison for a week?" I would probably say yes. "Would you--would you go to a women's jail for a week and be the only man there?" I'd probably say yes. Lenny,

voice-over

I feel like, you know, if I had a girl, maybe--maybe I'll be happy right now. Maybe I'll be-- feel good about myself. You know what, Matt? I'm gonna admit something to you. Do you want me to tell you something? I like girls that are black. I like them a lot. What do you think about that? Do you know what interracial-- interracial relationships are? Inter--interracial relationships? It means when different race people go out with each other. I was reading something on the computer that... black women are really independent, and it said that they're lucky girl-- that they're really intelligent women, and I feel like that, you know, I want a girl like that, but I feel like I can't.

Matt

Why do you think you can't? Because, you know, they're too independent. I need to be more independent. I need to get a good job and make good money. Dave,

voice-over

You get married for love, too, but for me, there's more of a practical component as well. Probably 60% practical and 40% emotional. I'll always love her. That won't change. But for the specific reasons for the marriage, that's what it'd boil down to. Lindsey, I had told him a few years ago that whenever he was ready to take that next step, that I would be willing to--to accept. I've--I've yet to hear any kind of indicator that that next step may be taken. Um, I know that we kind of brushed over this, like, when we chatted about it. I do believe you and trust you when--when you've told me that you were in it for the long haul. Oh, yeah. And I do believe you, and I do--you know, I do trust you, and I--I, um, you know, I definitely am in it for the long haul for us, too, and I-- I wouldn't--you know, I wouldn't be here if I wasn't. Well, I know that. Yeah. I guess I'm just-- I was just still kind of just figuring out, like-- That was a conversation that made me a little bit uncomfortable, too. Oh, you mean at the time? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's uncomfortable for me, too, but... it's important. It's important. Sometimes I think there's conversations that are uncomfortable for us, but they're really important to have or at least to address them in order to us to understand where each other are coming from. So I--I'm not gonna lie. So... But having this on camera, I don't like at all. I don't like the idea of having this conversation on camera at all. OK. It's one of those things that's best left off camera, I think. OK. We can stop talking about it. Yes. All right. Thank you for-- thank you for letting me know. I think--yeah, I just feel better that way. OK. I just feel uncomfortable being on camera talking about it. All right. No, thank you for letting me know. But you know how I feel, so don't worry about it. Lindsey, There's been times that I have questioned whether he really wants to be with me.

Gordon

Within yourself, you think you can communicate. You think you've said something. You think it should be obvious to somebody that's this, this, and this, but again you go back to the antenna. Maybe you are, but maybe they haven't picked that up. Stephen,

voice-over

Yes, this is my apartment with Gita. Uh, this is our bedroom. It's beautiful, isn't it? Gita moved here with me, uh-- that was 15 years ago.

Door closes

voice-over

And this is our bathroom. Stephen, She moved-- she had to go--she had surgery on--in May 2010. That was 3 years ago. Stephen, I'll

take a shower tonight at 7

00.

Edith

OK,

maybe at 7

30 if you go later to Gita's. I'll go--I'll go see Gita right now. I think they're eating, still. They're eating--no, they're still eating dinner. They're eating dinner. Yeah, because Erica was making it late... Yes. because Gita wasn't feeling well. I hope Gita will feel better. I hope so. She threw up. She felt nauseous. Yeah. Did she tell you that? Yeah, she told me that. When you were there? Yes. I'm trying--I'm trying to be positive, man. I'm just-- it's been kind of hard the past couple of weeks. Last week I did something to a girl, and it wasn't right. It felt--it felt kind of stupid, what I did. I was bored. I wanted to see what women felt like. It felt good for a little bit. Maybe for, like, 20 minutes it felt good, but it just felt like you-- two things. It felt like you wanted to do it more times, but it just felt like whatever at the end because it just-- that wasn't-- I don't-- I don't know that girl. I don't-- I don't love her. I just-- it felt like, I kind of felt bad for her a little bit. People told me that-- I talked to 2 or 3 people.

Whispers

maybe at 7

I kind of want to say it when there aren't that many people around. I kind of want to say it softly because it isn't good. People tell me that, "Oh"-- p-people, they tell me, "Oh, you got ripped off for just touching her ass." People told me that "you could have gotten a ha--" People told me that I could have gotten a ---. People--you know what this stuff means? People told me that I could have gotten a ---. People told me that I could have gotten-- could have ---. People told me that I could have... had --- her. That's what people told me-- those 4 things, People told me people told me that I could have done those 4 things with--with the 20 bucks, that "you got ripped off" and "delete her number." She told me her name was Diamond. That--that doesn't sound like a real name, does it? Dave,

voice-over

I've been together with her for 8 years, and a lot of people are wondering, "Why are you still just boyfriend/girlfriend?" A lot of people are asking, "When are y'all gonna get married?" That's, um--that's always a big step for a guy to take, and got to make sure it's the right one. When we talked about it, she made me feel like, "Oh, I do want to marry you, but maybe now's not the right time." That's--it's not likely, but it's possible she might say that. Uh, I--sometimes what she thinks is different from what I think, so... Lindsey, I think before I said yes, I'd want to ask him... what in particular had been holding him back the past few years, since when I first brought it up.

Gordon

Nobody was exactly at the same place at the same time. I hope, for her sake, that-- that they will eventually make a--a firm and formal commitment to each other. OK, maybe it's just a few simple words or something like that. Maybe it's just a little formal ceremony, something like that, but it means something. It makes a difference. It--it gives a base for someone to feel self-confident about giving everything of themselves to the other person without restraint or without holding back. But I think that's just one of the challenges that they've had to work through.

Indistinct

Gordon

So do you still, um, continue to think about the future? Like next steps and stuff like that. Well, I--I thought we had that conversation recently about how I wasn't reading your mind and I wasn't sure. Yeah. And then you--you reassured me that, um, you... that I--I shouldn't be worried about anything. Just I was gonna see if still-- everything is still the case. Is that still the same thing? You wouldn't be hesitant to the idea of marriage, would you? I don't think you've ever been so candid about this conversation before. I guess you've been thinking about it. I have.

Chatter from other tables

Gordon

Well, I--I'll be honest with you. I think regardless, I'm always going to be afraid of anything that involves, um, major life transition. Right. Right? And marriage is one of them. Is what? I'm sorry. Marriage is one of them. Yeah, it is. We seem pretty happy, though, as a couple, don't we? We seem pretty happy as a couple, right? Well, the question is, do we feel happy? I do. I--I feel similarly.

I am high class. Lenny

I am high class. You know that? What? You calling me stupid? I'll call you stupid. You know what? Let me tell you something, Matt. I didn't know what the hell happened, man. Let me just tell you what happened. I wish I was not autistic. There. I'm gonna say it right now. I don't like it. It makes me different. I don't like it. I wish I could have been a normal person. I wish I could have been a normal, regular person. My mom says, "Be autistic. Accept it." I tried accepting it. It's hard. Can I be honest with you? If I could change something-- if I could-- I'm gonna try to change it, but I told my mom this right now because of how disappointed I was. I would rather be a normal man than be an autistic person with a million dollars. There. If God came up to me and says, "What do you want?" I don't want to be autistic anymore. I wish you can give me a new li--me. I could start my life all over again and I wasn't autistic. There. Let me be a normal person. I bet you all the damn people I knew in middle school and high school, they're all in fricking college now. I'm not in college. That's what I wanted when I was in high school. I dreamed of going to college, and I'm not in college. I wanted to go to college. I wanted to go to college! I don't--I think now I should have graduated college! I should have been in college right now. I should have graduated college right now. I know so many people that went to college, and they're done right now. I can't hang out with people like that. I can't.

Matt

Why not? Because they're higher-- they're higher than me. Look. They're up here. I'm down here. They're--I'm all the way down here. They're all the way up here. That's what I think.

Lenny

I want to get a girl that's kind of lower than me. That's what I want. If I found a girl that had a job, had a car, had her own home, I can't be with her. She deserves to be with somebody better than me. She's up here. I'm down here. That's the way I see it. It's hard, man. It's really hard to accept it, man. Yeah, this is-- this is hard, man. This is tough. This is--this is probably one of the hardest things I have to go through in my life. Don't cry, man. Let me cry. I don't want to see a tear come out of your eye. It's hard. What do you think about me crying? What do you think the peop-- the viewers could think about this?

Crying

Lenny

It's emotional. I can't let that happen. I got no job. I got no car. I'm living with my parents. I should be doing something. I'm a good person, man. I'm not a bad person, Matt. I'm a good guy. That's just-- It hurts. It hurts, man. He once told me that... that, um--he said, "You ever walk into a room... and you know everybody's talking about you?" And he said that's how he feels every day when he leaves the house, you know? So, um... I just want my son to be happy. And, um, I think he needs to come to terms with who he is because he's not comfortable with who he is, and if he's not comfortable with who he is, I don't know how he could ever expect anybody else to be comfortable with who he is. Stephen,

voice-over

I feel sad about Gita. She died last April. She had cancer. That's sad. She was laying down. She was laid to rest. I miss Gita. I miss Gita. When Gita died, we went to the--to work to tell him. It was on a workday, and he was there, and when I told him, he just turned white like a sheet. He put his head down on the table. I could tell he was very upset. She was gone.

Matt

Do you feel like you're still in love with Gita? No. I stop loving someone--they die, because they die, because Gita died on April 9. No longer in love.

Max

It is a big help for him to go back-- go back to work.

Edith

We encouraged him to pick up life like... normal, sort of. Stephen,

voice-over

I fell in love with Gita for the past 20 years. And then gave--I gave Gita a hug. I gave Gita a hug. I--I put my arms around her.

Dave

In physics, we have something called electromagnetic spectrum-- how much energy a wavelength has. You go from radio waves to light to ultraviolet, x-rays, gamma rays. And then how I feel towards someone is kind of on a similar scale. You have different wavelengths going from just physical lust, then you go--graduate from a general interest in the opposite sex. Then you graduate from having a specific intense crush on a specific person. And after that, it kind of evolves into another stage, which is the true love stage and not having that deep crush where you're thinking about her 24/7 and you have a hard time sleeping because you're so much in love with her, but it kind of graduates into a more subconscious form. Let's say you're going from light waves that you can basically see to ultraviolet waves. They're still there, but you can't see them. But they're stronger. Is that making sense?

Lindsey

Are you sure that was-- are you sure that was the spot where we did that photograph? I want to say it was taken somewhere around here. Very--this is nostalgic, isn't it? Almost 8 years ago. It's always amazing when you look back in time, how things have grown and how our relationship has grown and what we've been through has been really amazing. That says something when you go for a relationship that long, that is a very strong signal that the relationship is meant to be. And at first, um, you were kind of confused as to where we were headed, and I remember you telling me you were--you would have been totally happy just pursuing your career and being a single woman, and then... Remember that slide you kind of show on your presentation-- is it the physics-related slide? Yes. Yes. Where you have... the wavelengths. The alpha and the beta and the gamma? And the delta. The delta. And I think how I viewed our experience and our adventure together is that our wavelengths might have been different at different times-- It was a mutual thing. And I think having those different wavelengths at different times may have been a significant reason why we both may have struggled to... really understand where we may be seeing ourselves in the far future. But now I feel like our wavelengths are in sync. I feel like we've grown. We have. And I want to only go by what's in here... Absolutely. In here, too. and what's in here. And trust me, it's in here. It's in here and always will be. And I say that from the bottom of my heart.

Sigh

Laughs and cries

Lindsey

And it's OK to blush if you want to, but, um, understand if you do. But, uh, this has been a remarkable journey, and somebody as beautiful as you deserves the very best and a life of happiness together. And I would very much be honored... to have you as my wife. Will you marry me? Yes, I will marry you. There you are. That's why I wore my vest-- to conceal that. I--I was wondering about that. But definitely in the delta region where it's true love. That's the wavelength we're both in. "Your task is not to seek for love "but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it." That quote really resonates with my life. All the negative things that I heard on autism growing up, it definitely made me feel worthless or less. I had consistently set up barriers to protect myself. It's very easy to not feel like that you can trust people. I thought that perhaps Dave was holding back more than I was. But what I discovered through a lot of introspection is that I was really holding back, too.

Alex Trebek

This author's losing entry in a 1948 literary contest-- Who was Arthur C. Clarke?

Alex

...2001? Lars.

Lars

Who is Clarke?

Alex

Arthur C. Clarke. You are right.

Lars

U.S. Cabinet, 200.

Alex

Which Cabinet department, the Transportation Security Administration...

Lenny

I'm gonna throw a penny in the water, make a wish. When I make my wishes, I make it clear that I don't tell anybody, OK? Hey, by the way, there's some more ducks over there. Why don't you go film them all over there? Got one minute left, by the way. When that one minute's over with, I'm gone. I got to go back. I like to get there early. I don't know. It's kind of fun doing this. 6 weeks I've been working here at Flora. Here. Here's your--here's the one right here. A famous person that had a job like this when he was a young man was Kurt Warner. You don't know who Kurt Warner is? He's the--he's the football player-- he's the quarterback who played for the Rams a long time ago. You don't remember how that Super Bowl happened where it was the last second on-- they were one yard short of winning it? Well, he was the quarterback of that winning game. All right. I got to go back now. Sorry. Got to go. Sorry. Got to go back now. I'm back now. May I have a drink of water, please? OK, ready? OK. All right.

Plays note

Lenny

So it starts here, OK? Ready? Mm-hmm.

Playing "Heart and Soul"

Lenny

Don't pound it. Just gently.

"Heart and Soul" continues