American Masters

-Ready?

- Well, it -- Wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

It's me.

One, two.

Jesus!

I messed up.

Oh, Lord, take care of me.

-Do you want to rest a while, Rich?

-I'll do it this time.

I got it.

I'll feel my way.

-Take two.

-Ready!

-Okay.

Let's go.

- Wop bop a loo bop, a lop bom bom Tutti frutti, oh, rootie Tutti frutti, oh, rootie Tutti frutti, oh, rootie -You can't help but move.

- Tutti frutti, oh, rootie -Back in the '50s, we'd never seen anything like that.

- A-wop bop a loo bop, a lop bom bom -Like, the Beatles -- you know, he was a huge influence on us.

-Fantastic.

The beat, man, and the feel.

Richard was creating something new.

-Roll it again!

Well, it's Saturday night, and I just got paid Fool about my money -When Little Richard started making those records, it was like taking the best acid in the world, you know?

[ Chuckles ] - I'm gonna rip it up -Watching him, I mean, that's how the Rolling Stones became the Rolling Stones.

- And ball tonight -When Richard started to perform, you can see he was a queer kid.

- I woke up this mornin', Lucille was not in sight I asked my friends about her, but all their lips were tight -With all this makeup on, updo hairstyles, all of that.

- Satisfy my heart -He was a pioneer.

- And gave you such a wonderful start -And so he just kept coming.

-For a long, long time, Little Richard was the top of the sort of artist food chain.

[ Cheers and applause ] He was one of those artists that carved out that path for others to walk down.

-Let it all hang out!

[ Cheers and applause ] With the beautiful Little Richard from down in Macon, Georgia!

I want you all know that I am the king of rock 'n' roll!

[ Cheers and applause ] -He had to stand up for hisself... because of the music industry.

They just never gave him his flowers.

-Would you welcome Little Richard?

-And here he is.

[ Cheers and applause ] -Shut up!

[ Laughs ] -What a life you have had.

-See, I was rockin' all the time.

Then my spirit start rollin'.

That's where it came from.

-You said you turned away from the "devil's music."

-What shall it profit a man if he should gain the whole world and lose his own soul?

-I believe you're the only person who ever claimed to be both the king and the queen of rock 'n' roll.

-They said that I was, and I wasn't refusing not one title.

[ Laughter ] [ Siren wails ] -Richard, do you have, like, a favorite side?

-Yes, this is my little side.

And this is my big side.

I like both of them.

[ Laughs ] -At that point in his life, Richard wasn't playing rock 'n' roll.

-That's gonna be good.

-[ Laughs ] -We were very, very close friends.

I met Richard, um, in Los Angeles in the '70s and became part of his band.

We bonded.

-Your eyes may shine, your teeth may grit... but none of my suns you will get.

[ Laughs ] [ Indistinct conversations ] -Years later, I would go visit him.

He was living at a hotel on Sunset Boulevard.

With a spiral staircase and all of that.

I'd go to the lobby and hang out, and then Richard would come down from the elevator.

And there's people in the lobby, and they'd say, "That's Little Richard."

He'd say, "Oh, hey, baby!"

And he was waving at everybody.

And he would embrace people, and they would ask him to sign autographs.

And he would sign autographs.

So we'll get through that.

Then the driver would come.

He would just want to ride.

- Good golly, Miss Molly Sure like to ball Ooh, good golly, Miss Molly Sure like to ball When you're rockin' and a-rollin' Can't hear your mama call Ahh -The conversation along the road could be about anything.

We'd talk about his life, you know, the beginning of rock 'n' roll.

- When you're rockin' and a-rollin' -When I came on the scene, there wasn't no rock 'n' roll.

Everybody was playing blues.

You know?

Dun-dun, dun, dun Dun-dun, dun, dun, dun-dun That's -- Every blues singer in the country was doing that.

And I got tired of -- Dun-dun, dun, dun You know, I created rock 'n' roll.

Didn't even know what I was doing.

-My experience with Richard was that he was always trying to tell his story.

Richard, he wanted to be heard.

It was because of what he's been through.

He was there in the beginning.

His story is the story of rock 'n' roll.

[ Bell tolls ] He was born in Georgia.

Macon, I believe.

He's in the South, so, you know, there's the Jim Crow stuff, you know, segregation.

But Richard would say when he was, you know, 10 years old... [ Children giggling ] ...he wasn't aware of stuff like that.

-I'm from a little country town where you see the chickens are all over the yard.

You know, it's like a little country town.

[ Indistinct singing ] And you would hear people singing all over the neighborhood.

[ Indistinct singing ] -And then late at night, I would run down the street singing.

Everybody wanted to kill me in the neighborhood.

Um, left at the next corner.

But it was really, really something.

And I used to play the piano every Sunday, you know -- Gimme that old-time Talking about religion Gimme that old-time religion Religion that it used to be -One thing that always strikes me about Little Richard -- when he would talk about his hometown, two of the themes that always came out were religion and music.

Every Black community in the South had a church on every corner.

- You gotta be set free Yeaaah!

-In those churches, you know, they would improvise.

They played loudly, to be heard.

People are singing with their feelings.

-There's a lot of Black churches that play gospel music.

You can't tell it from rock 'n' roll 'cause the Black churches are so rhythmy.

You go into some Black churches, they have a better band than I ever had in rock 'n' roll!

-[ Singing indistinctly ] -Before there was a rock 'n' roll, those churches were rocking.

-When I was a little boy, I said, "One day, I'm gonna do that."

And so I was singing gospel music every day.

I always liked women singers.

I liked the way the ladies sing high.

And I loved Mahalia Jackson, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, and the Clara Ward Singers.

- Gettin' ready to go - Whoooo!

-I'd be like -- Oooh You know?

I wanted to be like that.

- Packin' up - Gettin' ready to go - Gettin' ready to go - Gettin' ready to go - Packin' up, ooh, Lord - Packin' up, packin' up - Lord, oh, Lord - Packin' up, packin' up - Packin' up, packin' up - Whooo-ooh!

- Packin' up, packin' up - Whooo-ooh!

- Packin' up, packin' up - Whoo-hoo-ooh!

-Absolutely.

You can hear in that, of course, the famous "Whoo!"

So even all those early on gospel songs like that went -- Nuh-nuh-nuh, nuh, nuh-nuh That's what they're doing.

And Richard took it to be -- Nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh, nuh, nuh, nuh He made it rock 'n' roll.

With the higher voice.

- Whoo, come back, baby - Come back, baby - Don't leave me here - Don't leave me here You could hear I took all those little things that I had from a little boy, and I just put them together and made the songs.

- Don't disappear - Yes, true fine mama [ Click ] When I was a boy, I knew that I was different.

-Richard Penniman came from a huge family.

His mother eventually had a dozen children.

And his family described him as being trouble.

-I was so flamboyant.

You know, I was wearing my mother's makeup and lipstick, everything all over me.

-Even as a young boy, he's developing a style that didn't play by the rules.

-I used to play house with my cousins and I wanted to be the mama, you know?

The girls loved you, but the boys hated you.

They'd call me "sissy," "punk," "freak," "faggot."

And they used to want to fight you.

And so I had my first experience with a boy.

I told my mother.

And she used to tell me to hush.

-In the 1940s, homosexuality is a crime.

-Most Americans are repelled by the mere notion of homosexuality.

A vast majority believe that homosexuality is an illness.

-My grandfather was a preacher.

My daddy, he said he wanted seven boys and I was messing it up because I was gay.

Right at the light.

That's it.

You know, so I was always considered a bad boy.

-Back in the '70s, sometimes on the road he would come see me in my room, and we would talk.

I never forgot what he told me about his dad.

When he saw his son dressed with a wig on, with makeup on, he tied him down and beat him.

Beat him until he'd go unconscious.

But Richard said it didn't faze him.

He did his own thing regardless of his dad.

No one could tell him.

He would say, "Be what you want to be."

And that -- To me, I admired him.

I still do admire him for that.

-My daddy, he put me out.

He told me I had to do what he wanted me to do or else get out, and so I didn't do what he said, I got out.

-He left home, but his whole life he wanted to be accepted by his dad, but his dad ended up dying before that happened.

[ Thunder rumbles ] His father got in an argument with one of Richard's friends.

The guy shot him.

His friend killed his dad.

I can only imagine, you know, what it was like in terms of that guilt.

Inside of him, there was something always fighting.

-You're listening to KCRW 89.9 FM.

My name is Tom Schnabel.

-And I'm Roger Steffens.

-Welcome to KCRW, Richard.

-Oh, I'm so glad to be here.

I'm just speechless.

I just -- I got to just get -- Whoo!

- Whoo!

-As well as Charles White... -Whoo-wee!

-...who is the author of a brand-new book called "Little Richard: The Quasar of Rock."

-When I started to write his life story, he used to say, "Dr. Rock, I'm omnisexual."

[ Laughs ] Because, really, he was torn -- torn by it.

-Now, listen, do we call you "Little" or do we call you "Richard"?

-Oh, whatever is suitable and fitting.

-Sexuality was a dilemma for him.

But it wouldn't be obvious.

-You know, my first impression is you're not little at all.

-Oh, no.

-I don't mean you're overweight, but, I mean, you are tall.

-Oh.

Everything is big, I must admit.

[ Laughs ] -He has great -- great humor and great fun.

-[ Laughter ] -What does that mean?

-[ Grunts ] [ Laughs ] Alright.

They're all Little Richard.

I interviewed him for the book.

He always wanted to be a great musician.

But, really, he wanted to be accepted.

[ Click ] -So, I left my hometown when I was 14, and that's when it all started.

I joined a show called The Broadway Follies.

To me, they was the nicest people I'd ever met.

I became their vocalist.

And they changed my name to Little Richard.

-Little Richard came up through the Chitlin' Circuit like I did.

Let me explain Chitlin' Circuit.

At that time, all across the South, it was segregated.

And so if you were Black, you had the Chitlin' Circuit.

It got its name because they always served the inside of a pig, a hog, the chitlin', the guts.

And so everybody was eating chitlins in joints like this we're sitting in now.

-You know, my mama told me to leave Caldonia alone.

That's what she told me.

No kidding.

Louis Jordan, "Caldonia."

I sung that song every night 'cause I didn't know no other song but that song.

Caldonia, Caldonia What make your big head so hard?

I thought I was famous then.

But there wasn't nobody screaming over me but me.

-I remember Little Richard and I -- Oh, this story.

When I came off the stage, it was his time because he was starting the show.

He said, "Bobby Rush, don't go nowhere.

Stand right there."

He said, "Ladies and gentlemen, I want to tell you something about this man here."

Oh, I got my chest stuck out.

I'm waiting for the glory.

He said, "Myself and Bobby Rush... we are the prettiest men in the world."

[ Laughs ] And I did like this.

I said... [ Laughs ] He thought he was the best-looking man in the world.

You know?

But one thing he had was talent.

So, we would do the show, get up the next morning, and go to the next town.

If you come to New Orleans, you play the Dew Drop, man.

[ Laughs ] When you went to the Dew Drop, man, it was like Carnegie Hall in New York, man.

You was, like, in heaven, man.

It was it.

-The Dew Drop Inn.

Well, this was the hippest place to play in town.

Little Richard came in here, and one time, I was his opening act.

Richard was a really flamboyant dresser with glamorous suits and ties that he wore with the hair up, with the bouffant.

-It was quite popular in those days for men to wear their hair like that.

So I just took it a step farther, put mine a few inches higher than everybody else.

I was the only guy wearing eyelashes.

I was the only man wearing makeup.

-You know, a lot of people thought he's some wild and crazy guy.

But, you know, everybody from all walks of life came into a place like the Dew Drop.

We had doctors, lawyers, pimps, prostitutes, rich, poor, you know, LGBT, you name it.

Even the emcee, Patsy, she was a female impersonator.

And Patsy might come out in a big gown with can-can slips and said, "Good evening, darlings.

Welcome to the Dew Drop."

And Patsy would lift up the evening gown and said, "Come on and get the rest."

[ Laughs ] It was New Orleans, man.

-The drag scene is definitely a thing that New Orleans has been doing for a very long time.

We got the whole setup from all the older queens who came before us.

Being a queer kid from New Orleans, I can relate to what Richard went through back then.

When you meet people that's just like you, it feels just fabulous.

That gives you a moment to lay your hair down and be yourself.

You can talk the way you want to talk.

You can walk the way you want to walk.

When you're different, you've got to have that support, you know, a community of people that shows you the ropes.

-These guys, these female impersonators.

I went with them, and they wanted me to dress as a woman.

Instead of saying "he," they would say "she."

-He creates this Princess LaVonne character, and she would just dazzle the audiences.

- Ain't that good news?

- Ain't that good news?

- Ain't that good news?

- Ain't that good news?

- Ain't that good news?

- Everybody's blues crazy -I wore the eyelashes and the head bands, and I'd have so much mascara on, it looks like mud.

[ Laughs ] - The blues -So, at this point, he's writing blues music.

He's singing and performing R&B.

- Everybody's blues crazy -There's this great story where he's whipping his hair around, and he turns to the audience and says, "I'm the king of the blues.

And also the queen, too."

[ Laughs ] Ain't that good News -And so even though the Princess LaVonne character gets retired, I think that he took her with him.

-Richard was the greatest marketer of himself or anyone that I knew.

Was constantly putting himself out there.

So, he sent his demo tape to Specialty Records.

-I waited one year.

Can you imagine them having me wait a whole year?

Taxi, taxi, take me anywhere -We didn't listen to the tape right away.

- Taxi, taxi, take me anywhere -It was a scratchy tape, and it was poorly recorded.

[ Telephones ringing ] He just kept calling us.

So, finally I said, "Find that tape."

And we found it, and we listened to it.

- She got my money, but I don't even care -And so if it hadn't been for Richard's persistence, we would have never met Little Richard.

-They had me to meet them in New Orleans, and I met them down there.

-I got... -Alright.

Stand by, please.

This is "Wondering."

Done with a lot of feeling.

Take one.

-I recorded some blues.

I recorded "Wondering."

I'm Wonderin' -I just stopped the session because we were getting no place fast.

Great singer singing a good song.

So what?

And we went into the Dew Drop Inn.

There was a piano.

All of the boosters, rounders, pimps, whores, and everything else was hanging around.

And that was when I began to know and understand Richard.

'Cause that's all you gotta do, is give Richard an audience, turn the lights on, and the show is on.

-And Richard jumped on the piano and did -- Awop-bop-a-loo-bop, alop-bam-boom So they heard it and say, "Wait a minute.

What's that?"

It was a hook that they had never heard before.

But Richard had been singing that phrase for years, you know, on the Chitlin' Circuit.

-And so I started singing.

-The lyrics could be interpreted as gay sex.

They're not gonna play that on the radio!

[ Laughs ] "Tutti frutti, good booty."

And everybody knew this ain't about ice cream.

[ Laughs ] -But the primary reaction from the producers' point of view -- hey, this sounds like a hit record.

-I asked him, did he have a grudge against making money?

He said, "No."

I said, "Good."

-They said it was smutty, and so they helped me clean up my own lyrics.

It was my song.

I brought the song there.

-So we wrote the words "Tutti frutti, oh, rootie," and "A girl named Sue" and "A girl named Daisy," put Richard on the piano.

And in 15 minutes, I think we cut two or three cuts.

And it's been history ever since.

-Ready?

-Ready!

-Okay.

Let's go.

- Wop bop a loo bop, a lop bom bom Tutti frutti, oh, rootie Tutti frutti, oh, rootie Tutti frutti, oh, rootie -The beat.

The up-tempo of it.

He was on his way to the rock 'n roll now.

- Awop bop a loo bop, a lop bom bom -It was the first step in crossover.

Blues and R&B had a baby.

-I mean, I love it.

When I first heard it, I was like, "This is me all day."

I mean, just the word "tutti frutti."

It connects you to the gay community.

You know, we are tutti frutties.

[ Laughs ] That was one of the slang words that the mainstream community, they did not know at the time.

I just know all of us tutti frutties were going crazy.

- Tutti frutti -You could tell this is a song directly for us.

- Oh, rootie Awop bop a loo bop, a lop bom bom -And, I mean, I think it was just horrible how they stole everything that he did.

[ Horn honks ] - On the day... -When I came out with "Tutti Frutti," Black records was played for Black people only.

Black artists had never been received by the white stations.

- Writing love letters In the sand -At that point, I was a pop artist.

When I cried You know, what I wanted to sing were songs about love and happiness and all that.

Saw the tide That was what they played on the radio back then.

From the sand Rhythm and blues music was called race music.

Here I'm a churchgoing white kid from Nashville.

I knew very little of it.

But then when I heard a song by Little Richard called "Tutti Frutti"... - Awop bop a loo bop, a lop bom bom -...I loved it.

I just flat loved it.

And so I thought, I'm gonna do my version of it.

-Jumping into 10th position this week, "Tutti Frutti."

And here to sing it in person is the man who made it a hit, one of America's greatest recording stars, Pat Boone!

-When I recorded that song, it was hard to say, "Awop, ah-eh-ahah.

What was that again?"

Tutti frutti, oh, rootie But I was having to write that out.

"Awop, bop, aloo -- What?

Bomp?

Bop?"

Write that out -- write it out so I could sing it.

Awop bop a loo mop, alop bop bop My version took off like a rocket.

It was a million-selling hit.

The kids loved it.

-Pat Boone came out singing a white version of "Tutti Frutti."

I was very disgusted because I was just coming on the scene, and he sold more than I did.

-I mean, you have this white straight man that's saying "tutti frutti" when he really don't know the meaning of the song.

And he made all the money, too.

It's just not right.

-Listening to music when I was a child, I grew up with covers and hearing people re-interpret music.

But when I hear Little Richard playing "Tutti Frutti" and I hear Pat Boone singing "Tutti Frutti," that painted a real interesting picture to me.

Society was telling me, "Hey, Nile, if you want to be a musician... you can't be Little Richard.

You have to be safe."

-But Little Richard, he was always a fighter.

He said, "Okay, well, that's what they did?

Well, I'm-a do the next one a little faster.

I'm gonna speed the tempo up and see if you can do that."

To make it uncoverable.

And that was "Long Tall Sally."

- Gonna tell Aunt Mary 'bout Uncle John He claim he has the misery, but he's havin' a lot of fun Oh, baby, yes, baby -But if I can sing, "Wop bop a loo mop, balop bop, bop," I can sure sing "Long Tall Sally."

Gonna go tell Mary 'bout Uncle John He said he has the blues, but he has a lot of fun Oh, Mary, yes, baby Mine sold a million and a half like that.

Another big hit for Pat Boone, which some people think, if they didn't live through the era, think that we were taking something from those Black performers.

No, we weren't.

We were introducing him to a much bigger audience.

And I've said many times, I think I and Elvis were midwives at the birth of rock 'n' roll.

- You ain't nothin' but a hound dog Been snoopin' around the door You ain't nothin' but a hound dog -I knew Elvis Presley was drawn to rhythm and blues music, same as me.

He loved the excitement of it, the freedom of it.

[ Cheers and applause ] [ Women screaming ] - You ain't nothin' but a hound dog Cryin' all the time You ain't nothin' but a hound dog -Then when Elvis started performing Big Mama Thornton's "Hound Dog" with basically the same arrangement, most people knew nothing of the original, that is, at least, in the pop world.

-You know, you have to remember Elvis and his white contemporaries were afforded more opportunities for airplay than the Black artists could ever hope to get.

-A lot of white kids, they would buy my "Long Tall Sally" or my "Tutti Frutti," but they would buy Pat Boone's and put it up on the table and put mine under the table to satisfy their family, 'cause their mother wanted this white image for them.

We were in the same house but different locations.

-It makes me sad, and it makes me angry, too.

It affected, you know, a lot of Black artists during that time, you know?

[ Coin clatters ] But then the white teenagers said, "Wait a minute.

I don't want to hear Pat Boone singing 'Tutti Frutti' and Long Tall Sally.'

We want to hear the real thing."

Forbidden fruit tastes the sweetest.

[ Laughs ] - Ready, set, go, man, go -And so Little Richard just started putting out hit after hit.

- Ready, ready, Teddy, I'm ready I was the first Black artist to go top 40, to break the racial barrier.

That's what I should say.

To the corner, pick up my sweetie pie She's my rock 'n' roll baby, she's the apple of my eye -To be a Black artist and go to the top of the pop charts, like...

It was amazing to me.

- I'm ready, ready, ready to rock 'n' roll -This is Alan Freed, kids, rolling right along with your own special brand of music.

- Saturday night, and I just got paid -England was not playing rock 'n' roll.

The BBC were not really playing rock 'n' roll.

But there's a country called Luxembourg who had this huge antenna, and in Liverpool we could hear their radio, what they were sending out.

And they had the Alan Freed show.

-Man, that Little Richard really rocks.

-So my mate Roy and I, we would sit 4:00 every Sunday.

This is what we did, is gonna listen to this show.

Little Richard came on.

First time we'd heard him.

Like, "What?!"

He was just so great.

But what was great, 'cause we were young teenagers -- He said, "Shag on down to the Union Hall."

[ Laughs ] We -- "Shag on down"?

You know, it means something different in England.

- Shagged on down by the Union Hall When the joint starts jumpin', I'll have a ball I'm gonna rock it up -And now here's Little Richard with "Lucille."

[ "Lucille" plays ] -When I first heard "Lucille" and that riff... To hear something like that just suddenly out of nowhere was mind-blowing, you know?

Gobsmacking, you know?

[ Laughs ] - Lucille -He's not got enough recognition for writing songs like that.

And an incredible talent.

-I can always remember, you know, you'd just be waiting for the next Richard record to come out.

Well, it's been two months.

You know, it should've been... - Bad-luck baby put the jinx on me I got the heeby-jeebies, and I can't get well -Those records had a big effect on me and my generation.

They threw a whole different light on life and its possibilities.

[ Laughs ] -Back in those days, everybody loved me.

Alan Freed.

He put me on the hit movie.

[ Cheers and applause ] -Now here's that real solid man of rock 'n' roll.

Little Richard and "Long Tall Sally"!

- Gonna tell Aunt Mary 'bout Uncle John He claim he has the misery -The scene in that movie was just amazing.

- And he ducked back in the alley, oh, baby, yeah -We had seen nothing like that in the world of music and cinema.

It was so extraordinary.

The whole makeup thing and his high pompadour.

His foot up on the top of the piano.

And, of course, the voice was like a volcanic eruption.

- Ooooh, have some fun tonight Everything's alright Have some fun, have me some fun tonight -At the end, the cinema was like an undiscovered Egyptian tomb.

We were so in awe that we could hardly speak.

You were in a state of shock.

It was that powerful.

-People like Chuck Berry and Little Richard, I think these guys -- especially Richard -- they knew that they were on the forefront of something new.

I don't think they all knew what it was, but they realized that they'd broken through something really important.

-Rock then became a force, and Little Richard was always leading it.

[ Dog barking ] -That's my house right there on the left where I used to live.

That's the first house I ever bought right there.

Is there anybody here think we gonna break in?

This neighborhood was the neighborhood.

I enjoyed it because my brothers and sisters, you know, I had moved them from Macon, Georgia, here.

And this is the first time they had a chance to live in a house like this.

You know, in Macon, they had homes like this, but only white people lived in them.

And for them to have the opportunity to live in a home like this with cars that was theirs felt good to give them something that I never had before.

I think the same lady still live next door over there that was living there when I had my monkey, Tutti Frutti.

Yeah, he used to raise so much sand up in this neighborhood.

He was biting everything.

-When I first met him, I was a teenager, and he lived around the corner, and he was a wonderful person.

He was very loud and boisterous.

You automatically seen him coming.

He made me laugh, and I made him laugh.

And he said he didn't know that I wasn't a woman, that I was gay.

And I said, "I'm Sir Lady."

And he -- [ Laughs ] He would look at me.

I'd say, "Oh, you know what I'm talking about, bitch."

He told me, "Don't -- Don't hand me that."

He kind of liked me, but we never did get together.

He went both ways.

He liked a girl called Angel.

He loved Angel.

- Send me some lovin' -Oh, their relationship, boy... was on fire.

And he couldn't even wait to get back to the bed.

He would take her in the back seat of the limo.

'Cause he loved the limos.

- Can you send me your kisses -It was a lot of fun.

[ Laughs ] Richard's fantasies are the greatest on Earth.

- I miss you so much -Oh, they should just keep "Lee" and take the "Angel" off.

[ Laughs ] Oh, she is a whooper.

She's a wonderful girl.

You know, she's beautiful.

She's lovin', she's kind.

I'm waitin' for you -It was true love.

He wanted to get married to her, but she was young, and she had to live her life.

He was devastated because he really wanted to marry her.

After that, his feelings became very private.

And he stayed private.

-At that time, Richard discovered how Specialty Records, the way things were done with the royalties.

I don't know the percentages of the contract, but it was terrible.

It was terrible.

-If you spoke for your money, you was a troublemaker.

But if you just went along with the program, didn't say nothing, you was a "good boy."

Never a man -- a "good boy."

Mind, the record company's not paying me my royalties.

I had to work all the time.

-Richard asked, would I come on the tour.

Richard had such charisma.

That, along with his tremendous talent, was just -- made it natural, you know?

I said, "Of course."

Oh, it was exciting.

I mean, you know, I was young.

I was raised in Los Angeles, so when I went South, that was quite an experience for me.

I remember there were colored and white restrooms, but I thought it was funny.

But later on, I began to realize that this was a serious situation.

-Policeman would stop me and make me wash my face.

I couldn't go to the bathroom.

I was the hottest thing in the country.

And I remember we was in a hotel in Montgomery, Alabama, and the Ku Klux Klan made us get out of the hotel at 4:30 in the morning with white sheets on.

Made us leave the hotel.

You know, if you're Black, you're in trouble.

-A lot of the gigs that we did, it was segregated audiences.

There'd be a rope down the middle of the dance hall.

[ Laughing ] That's how stupid it all was, you know?

-And I am Little Richard.

Come up and listen.

Come on!

- She can't help it, the girl can't help it She can't help it, the girl can't help it - If she walks by, the men folks get engrossed - She can't help it, the girl can't help it - If she winks an eye, the bread slice turn to toast - She can't help it, the girl can't help it - Yeah, she's got a lot of what they call the most - She can't help it -Richard reached out to everyone in that audience.

The kids was going crazy.

And then what started to happen was that the kids danced together.

I had never say seen nothing like that before.

For a brief minute, we realized, "We have so many things in common."

- Every mother's son -Richard broke barriers down.

- If shes smiles then beef steak become well done -White kids were loving it.

Everyone was loving it.

- Ahhh -Some people would say, "Well, you know, you can't compare Little Richard to a Dr.

King."

Well, Dr. King believed in nonviolence, and he went in places that he wasn't supposed to go to make change.

I see a very strong parallel to what Richard did.

[ Cheers and applause ] -Rock 'n' roll, it brought the races together, because music is a universal language.

-Problem was, it threatened the establishment.

-The obscenity and vulgarity of the rock 'n' roll music is obviously a means by which the white man and his children can be driven to the level of the nigger.

-Just all depends upon how you look at it.

I guess if you want to think it's nasty or sexy, you could.

But to me, it's just -- -Well, the two things are not necessarily the same.

-Yeah, well, you know, it's just so limber and loose.

I mean, it's really marvelous.

-Well, he just feels the rhythm, digs it the most.

-You don't see anything wrong with it?

-No.

[ Girls cheering ] -The white kids liked me.

They loved me.

And all the white girls was screaming over me.

And the system didn't like it, you know?

And the white families said that I was raucous, I was demonic, I was a demon possessed, whatever you would say.

I was awful.

I was not supposed to be the hero for their kids.

-To be a history nerd for a second, rock 'n' roll becomes popular right at the moment when Black activists are having a lot of success with desegregation.

-In some cases, Negroes achieved full integration at terminal restaurants and waiting rooms.

-We still advocate nonviolence with passive resistance and still are determined to use the weapon of love.

-This set off a panic.

You've got a lot of worried white people.

-They want to throw white children and colored children into the melting pot of integration.

-Rock 'n' roll has got to go, and go it does.

-For Little Richard, the white segregationist backlash didn't surprise him too much.

But in Black churches, there was also a lot of preaching against rock 'n' roll that hit him much harder.

-I went to interview him, and he'd said to me, "Oh, Dr. Rock, let me tell you what the Lord has told me to tell you.

[ Laughs ] He would talk about rock 'n' roll being the devil's music.

He felt that he was going with the devil instead of going with the Lord, and that played on his mind.

-We would talk about religion.

Didn't mean anything to me until the plane trip.

He was flying first-class.

All of us were in coach, you know.

Now, whatever happened at the front of the plane, I don't know.

-When I was on this airplane, the engine turned red and hot.

Plane didn't catch on no fire, But it scared me.

In my mind, I could see two angels flying up under that plane.

-Well, he came through the door and said, "Y'all going to hell if you don't repent."

Everybody stood up and went, "What is this?

What's going on?"

He had everybody in the plane praying.

I mean, everybody.

And, you know, we were like, "Oh, yeah?"

He told me that he was going to quit the business, become a preacher.

It was a complete shock.

-It was very difficult because Richard could have blown his nose, and we could have recorded it and sold it.

We did everything trying to get him to come back, including withholding his royalties.

But he wouldn't record the "devil's music" any more.

I don't know the real reason.

I suspect it was typical Richard, other than what he reveals.

-I think he got tired of being ripped off.

And so it was over.

That was it for him then.

[ Gospel music plays ] -After he leaves the world of rock 'n' roll... - I'm going to tell them -...he starts to make gospel recordings.

- All about Him -He becomes a student at a religious college.

- I'm going to tell God -He marries a nice woman.

- About Him -And though the marriage doesn't last very long, on the outside, it looks like Little Richard was trying to straighten himself out.

- Going to tell God all about it -I met Richard like maybe early '80s.

The funny story with me would always be, okay, we're in the limo.

Richard says, "Well, Bill, are you a fool again for Jesus today?"

And then I happily say, "Yes, I am!

Don't ever let it change."

And then we both just start laughing.

And in over three decades that I knew him, the only fragility that I would relate to Richard would be, "Is this going to be good enough for God?"

- When I get home -I remember that time.

He was very serious about his religion.

I mean, Richard was a teenager when he was fooling with drag.

You grow up, and being yourself is a hard thing to be.

I would like it if he was able to be real with himself.

But he didn't have that kind of nerve.

- All about it when I get home -The consequence of Little Richard's focus on gospel was that, in the United States, in mainstream popular music, he largely gets forgotten.

-After I joined the Beatles in '62, we got the opportunity to play the Liverpool Empire.

If you're not from Liverpool, you won't understand.

We're playing the Liverpool Empire.

-Little Richard winds up getting booked for some dates in the U.K.

But he goes there fully expecting to be a gospel performer.

The Beatles were supporting him.

[ The Beatles' "Love Me Do" plays ] They had not yet broken big.

They weren't major stars.

- Love, love me do -To play on the same stage as Little Richard was huge.

- I'll always be true So please Love me do Whoa-oh, love me do -And then, lo and behold, Brian, the manager, brought us backstage.

Little Richard, you know, was this close.

It was so great.

-When did you meet the Beatles?

-In Liverpool.

Brian Epstein said, "They want to just touch you."

Let me show this up to the audience.

Looky there.

Paul grabbed my hand, and he rubbed my shoulders.

John got my finger, and George got my finger, and Paul got my arm.

-And they made a wish.

[ Laughter ] -They were just pulling back, and I said, "Pull me."

-We were blessed.

You know, if you look at music and where rock came from, he is right in there.

-When I first went to see him in '62, I remember, you know, you're just waiting for -- You couldn't wait to get there.

And then somebody said he would only sing gospel.

We all looked, and we didn't know what the hell to say or do.

[ Cheers and applause ] -It's Little Richard!

[ Cheers and applause ] -In that moment, Richard sees that he has to make a decision about what kind of music to perform.

-I come from gospel music, and it was definitely a toss-up for me when I switched from sacred to secular music.

It's like the angel on one shoulder and a devil on another.

What are the church gonna think?

What are the community gonna think?

You have to try to find which way that you want to go.

[ Notes play ] [ Audience shouting ] - Come on over, baby Whole lotta shakin' going on So come on over, baby You can't go wrong We ain't fakin' A whole lotta shakin' going on In a world of chaos and commotion and strife, we need a little joy.

I'll never leave my fans again because they need me, and I need them.

We help each other so much.

Well, come on over, baby, whole lotta shakin' goin' on Whooo Yeah, yeah, yeah A whole lotta shakin' going on Yeah We ain't fakin' A whole lotta shakin' going on Well, you gotta shake it, baby, shake it Won't you shake it Whoooo Yeah, yeah, yeah A whole lotta shakin' going on Yeah We ain't fakin' Whole lotta shakin' going on Whoa, yeah Shake it, baby, shake it Whooo Yeah, yeah, baby A whole lotta shakin' going on Yeah Come on over A whole lotta shakin' going on -As a drummer, as a musician, it was so great.

You know, a really great memory for me, you know?

'Cause that was the start of it.

- You know that can't be bad -He was like a huge influence on us.

- Whooo -Richard, did you really teach Paul how to do that yell?

-Yes, I did.

-I loved all those interviews he did where he was telling everybody that he taught Paul how to yodel.

[ Laughs ] -How did you do it?

-He was standing in the -- in the wing of the stage.

And I would say... Whoooo ooh-ooh-ooh He would say...

"Whoof!"

[ Laughter ] I said... Whooo He said, "Whoof!

Whoof!"

And I said... Whoo He go, "Whoof, whoof!"

-Well, he didn't teach him.

That was always the joke.

Paul just decided to "whooo," and Little Richard, from that day on, told him how he taught Paul to "Whooo!"

But that was Little Richard.

And we loved the man.

-What happens next is that Little Richard immediately gets booked to headline another British tour.

- Ain't had no lovin', baby, since you know when You know I love you, yes, I do I'm savin' all my lovin', baby, just for you I need your lovin', and I need it bad -I was a total fan, and the idea of working with Richard was just like a dream, you know?

- Baby, won't you give all your love to me -I was in my first week as a rock 'n' roll star.

I mean, before that, I was just a musician in a club band.

-The Rolling Stones was opening my show.

- Everything is wrong since me and my baby parted All day long I'm walkin' -Didn't nobody know them but their mothers.

Mick, you know I'm telling the truth.

Keith, I'm telling -- Didn't nobody know Keith and Mick but their families.

It was really something.

- Come on -So, suddenly, there we are on this huge tour, and Mick and I used to try and find our way up into the rafters of the theaters and just watch it from above and see how he operated.

- Well, Lawdy, Lawdy, Lawdy, Lawdy, Miss Claudie Whooo -It was an insight to how hard you might have to work if you wanted to do this stuff.

You know?

And he did it with a beautiful nonchalance.

It was high-powered, but you always had a feeling that there was more in the tank.

- You like to ball every morning Back home till late at night -It was a real lesson in stagecraft, especially since we hadn't never seen a stage before.

- Got to show them what you mean Well, please -That whole tour was a university of rock 'n' roll.

- Whoo!

-Amazing.

And, also, I tell you what -- Richard -- he shows you what fun it could all be.

You know, I mean, he'd be outrageously camp some nights and, you know, incredibly funny, especially in the north of England, to watch the local bigwigs being introduced to Little Richard, and, oh, he would mercilessly rag them.

It was -- you know, he'd kissed them.

You know?

He'd stroke them, you know?

[ Laughs ] -Mick Jagger was sleeping on the floor in Bo Diddley's room because my room was full, as always.

[ Laughter ] I had nowhere to walk because I was saying, "Next!

Next!"

[ Chuckles ] [ Cheers and applause ] - Say the joint was a-rockin' -You just watched Mick Jagger.

You can see he borrowed a lot of stuff directly from blues and rhythm and blues.

- Never stopped rockin' Till the moon went down -Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

-All right, now -- now let me ask you what Mick Jagger learned from you, Richard.

-How to walk.

[ Laughter ] -You know I'm telling you the truth, Mick.

- Well, at twelve o'clock -If you agree with that, Mick, I'll put back on my glasses.

Okay.

-Just watch us.

You live and learn and borrow.

You know?

- Till the moon went down -And it was after that tour, playing with Little Richard, The Rolling Stones became The Rolling Stones.

-It was really amazing to see that these people had been inspired by me.

I felt unworthy but blessed and thankful.

-Here we go from bar 40.

[ Speaking indistinctly ] -Little Richard called me and said, "Want you to produce the album."

Of course I go, "Yeah!"

You know.

It was fun, you know, because this is the first time that I can tell him what to do.

He'd say, "Oh, baby, you work me too hard.

You work me like a slave."

So it was quite an experience for me and an honor for me.

We were talking about we was gonna go on the road and do a world tour and everything.

Nothing really happened.

-By the late '60s to early '70s, Richard's new rock 'n' roll records were not selling.

Richard blamed the record label.

-I started asking about my money, and they stopped pushing my records.

Soon as I wanted my money, they stopped playing them because they didn't want to pay me.

That's the way it went.

That's the way it was.

-Little Richard felt like it was because of racism.

And what is true is that, in the world of popular music, people are associating rock 'n' roll with white performers.

Now rock 'n' roll has a white face.

[ The Rolling Stones' "Jumping Jack Flash" plays ] -As most of you are well aware by now, Beatlemania has hit the United States as the group has four of the top-selling 20 records.

-It was the Beatles and then, later on, the Stones.

-There was a sort of total sea change in America.

-Quarter of a million fans of the Rolling Stones... -The America before the British Invasion is a totally different place.

Everything that went before, they sort of threw it in a garbage can.

It's amazing, you know, because this is the stuff that we're playing back to them, you know?

[ Cheers and applause ] It seems incredible to us.

-It's easy to get discouraged.

In your heart, you said, "Man, forget it."

And it makes you mad.

And then you say, "Well, I'm just gonna do what I do best."

-Even though Little Richard was being outsold by the people who were inspired by him, the response from Richard, it's so defiant.

-And that's when I started looking more and more fabulous.

-You're beautiful!

-Everything I put on was a diamond.

[ Crowd cheers ] -When I started working with him in the '70s, he took it up at least another hundred notches.

He always was innovative in what his style was like, what his clothes was like, what designs he would be wearing.

It just went to a whole nother level.

-Mr. L.R.

-- Little Richard!

[ Cheers and applause ] -You can see the headbands and stuff that he was wearing.

And that would mirror outfit that he had on.

He was the pioneer of that look in show business.

- Lucille [ Singing indistinctly ] Lucille -He had no fear at all because he was confident in who he was.

[ David Bowie's "Let's Dance" plays ] He brought glamour to rock.

- Ahh -If you look at other artists at that time, you can see he's influenced so many musicians throughout the world.

-In the year 1982, when David Bowie walked up to me when we were thinking about the album, that would become "Let's Dance"... - Put on your red shoes -...after doing a ton of searching and listening and going to different archives, he walks up to my apartment, and he's got something behind his back.

Knocks on my door.

When I open the door, and he says, "Now, darling, I want my record to sound like this looks."

And he goes wham.

He whips out a picture of Little Richard.

As soon as he showed me that and said that, we were done.

Like, "Let's go, bro.

I know -- I got it."

[ Cheers and applause ] Little Richard was just so far ahead of his time.

But it's hard to be a pioneer.

-Let all the womenfolk say, "Whoo!"

Let all the men say, "Unh!"

Ooh, my soul.

I want you all to know that I am the king of rock 'n' roll!

[ Cheers and applause ] -Well, after the gig, once we got back to the hotel room, all kind of people would be there.

"Yeah, I love you, Little Richard!

I love you!"

[ Laughs ] "You want this?

I'll do it to you.

Take off your clothes, and let's do it."

There was just people like that.

And he -- he knew where to get them, how to get them, especially if there's drugs involved.

-Everybody liked to go to orgies -- everybody.

I just enjoyed sex in its entirety.

Sex, to me, was like a smorgasbord.

You should just go and pick whatever you want.

And if you knocked on my door, and I wanted mo', fo' sho'.

-He did it in excess.

Everything in excess.

You know?

Women, men, orgies.

Wine, whiskey, weed, angel dust, cocaine, heroin -- It was called a speedball when you mixed the two.

You inject the pure stuff, it can kill you, like some people I know, some musicians I know that did that.

It's not good.

He had some demons he had to fight.

But I saw a side of Richard, he just wanted to have peace and maybe someone -- either a man or woman -- that he could share his life with.

Someone that he loved.

-I was lonely.

I felt that no one wanted me.

Although you had millions of fans screaming over you all over the world, but you just wanted somebody to be with you personally that said, "Little Richard, I love you.

I care for you, Richard."

-Someone told him that I was looking for him, and he reached me.

I flew to Los Angeles, and at the airport, 12:00 in the afternoon, L.A.X., 17 crazy-looking guys got out of a limousine, and Richard got out with this red and gold bat-winged outfit and his pompadour and his makeup yelling, "Shut up!"

I saw the loneliest man I'd ever seen in my life.

He was drinking.

He was doing drugs.

He was smoking, which is funny.

In the beginning, Richard didn't do anything.

He did not believe in anyone doing these things.

He had me try PCP for the first time, and it just... [ Sighs ] -[ Muffled speaking ] -He just wasn't the person I knew anymore.

-[ Muffled speaking ] That's when I found out that I had really fallen.

You know, I started looking real old, and I got real small, and I got so that I didn't want to see my mother and my sisters and brothers.

'Cause I didn't want them to see me in that condition.

So I said, "It's time to get right with God."

-During that time, well, he changed.

He came to my hotel room.

We talked for hours about his life.

He didn't want to be gay anymore.

It's a pitiful thing to see a person not loving himself.

He just came to a point where he said, "I don't want to do this anymore.

I don't want to be rock 'n' roll.

I don't want to be Little Richard."

- Lady [ Telephone ringing ] -My brother Tony called me and asked me to see him.

Instead of going to see Tony, I picked up a guy by the name of Tom.

And we went and checked into a hotel and just have a good time to get high and let it all hang out.

The next morning, my brother fell dead from a heart attack.

-When Richard's brother Tony died, that had a profound effect on him.

He felt he should have gone to see his brother.

And so that guilt laid on him, and it magnified in his mind.

This was the last straw.

The parties and the cocaine, it's the orgies, all of that was over.

[ Gospel music plays ] -He was the king of rock 'n' roll.

Now he's the child of the king.

Let's welcome and receive the one and only Brother Little Richard!

Come on!

[ Applause ] -I didn't come here to preach.

I came here just to talk to you.

And I'm not that type of preacher.

You know, I know you probably figured I was gonna start moaning and groaning.

[ Laughter ] My granddaddy used to do that and kill me when he'd get to the house.

[ Laughter ] Yes, my granddaddy would get down Sunday morning.

Mmm Sister said, "Go on and tell it, Preacher!"

Whoa-oh Said, "Go on and tell it..." So, my Said, "Going to church."

Hey, hey, hey Said, "Go on and preach it!

So, my, my, my, it's a talent!

Whooa Talent!

Hey, talent!

Whoo!

Talent!"

He ain't told him nothing yet.

[ Laughter and applause ] I'm an evangelist now.

I feel high all the time, but I don't take anything.

I just don't have a desire.

I think that my day should be spent now, at the age of 52, spreading the gospel.

Well, the Bible said, "For what shall it profit a man if he should gain the whole world and lose his own soul?

Or what shall a man give..." -Sweet hearing his voice.

And the first time I saw him administer the gospel, I just knew this was -- this was an incredible guy.

-I came here tonight to tell you that Jesus loves you.

How God changed me from being homosexual and made me a man.

Do you want to hear that tonight?

Do you want to hear it?

[ Congregants cheer ] -What he was doing was revealing himself and revealing we all have demons.

-I didn't know that homosexuality was wrong until I read it in the Bible!

-Oh, yeah!

I mean, what -- When you come out and pronounce it publicly like that, to say, "Okay.

I took a left turn instead of a right turn, but I'm on the right path now, and this is the reason why.

And I'm on the right path so much, I don't care about where you know I came from.

Look at where I'm going.

And I'm telling you, that's where you need to go."

[ Cheers and applause ] -Richard, how are you?

Nice to see you.

-When he goes on "David Letterman," the first thing that's really striking to me is that he doesn't look like Little Richard.

Not the one that I knew.

-This would be Little Richard.

-Looks like he's gonna go sell used cars.

And the producers show footage of him from the '70s.

This is the person who brought queer aesthetics into rock 'n' roll.

-Little Richard.

[ Cheers and applause ] -But you can really see a sadness.

I think that he does have this kind of internal conflict about the music that he was performing and the way that he presented himself.

-When you see yourself in action in the old days, you want to get back into it on that level?

-I'm just so glad God brought me out of that.

I never knew I looked like that.

[ Laughter ] I'm just so glad that God was able to clean me up and wash me up, and thank you, Lord.

-I think he came there to almost apologize.

Preaching against homosexuality.

-You keep saying one provocative thing after another.

You used to be gay, but now you're not.

-I'm not.

I'm a man for the first time in my life.

-Yeah.

-I know how you feel now.

[ Laughter and applause ] -In life, we have to make choices.

He chose one over the other.

-Wop-bop-a-loo-bop, alop-bam-boom -- Little Richard.

-The architect of rock 'n' roll wasn't playing rock.

-Do you miss anything of your old life, of the rock-star adulation?

-No, I don't miss -- I don't miss it, because I came from rock 'n' roll to the Rock of Ages, so I can't miss it.

I have something better.

-Well, at that stage, I was a journalist and rock 'n' roll D.J.

I went to interview him.

He spotted this guy painting a house.

And he pulled in.

"Oh, yeah.

Hi, there, brother.

How you doing?"

"Oh, it's Little Richard!"

And he comes up and throw his arms around him and all of that.

He just loved people.

And you could see the confusion in his life.

I asked him, "Can I write your life story?"

The things he told me just left you gobsmacked.

-This week sees the publication of one of the most remarkable and revealing accounts ever of the life of a major pop star.

-Well, joining us right now is a true legend.

-Get up and applaud Mr. Little Richard.

-Would you welcome Little Richard.

-This resurgence of my fame, it made me feel alive again.

And I just thank God for Dr. Rock coming over and writing a book on my life.

-When he's promoting the book, there is a sense of pride.

-I am young and beautiful!

Am I right?

[ Cheers and applause ] -He's very candid.

-You were not afraid to write truthfully... -That's right.

-...about some things that people would not.

You weren't afraid to write about drugs.

You weren't afraid to write -- -About sex.

-Your sex life.

-He's thinking about life and who he was.

-I want to say this about the word "homosexual."

Personally, I don't like that word, "homosexual."

I want to say "gay," being gay.

I would like to say that.

One thing that I've learned in my evangelism, discrimination and segregation is so heavily still in the world today.

I see it now how people segregate against a person because they're gay.

God loves us all.

-All of those things that he didn't think that was fair he was ready to talk about.

-Richard Penniman, better known as Little Richard, filed suit in federal court this week, claiming he's been defrauded of music royalties due him since 1959.

-Little Richard made headlines when he sued Specialty Records.

-Yeah, a lot of people would think that you're a millionaire by now, many times over.

-I am, but I just haven't received the millions.

I'm not only standing for myself, but I'm standing for many Black people that have been ripped off that was not paid, and they was used and abused.

-For Black performers, the standard dues back then for royalties was like 2%.

Who gets the other 98%?

Hey, you know it.

[ Laughs ] -I'm not asking for nothing that don't belong to me.

All I want is what I have earned.

And I would appreciate it so much.

-I grew up hearing rock 'n' roll was robbed.

Black people invented rock and roll, but they were exploited.

-Last summer, Congress looked into the ripoff of artists and writers.

-When Richard winds up settling, he also proved all of those stories to be correct.

-And I want to commend you on behalf of all of those who've been afraid to come forward prior to this time.

-He did get a settlement from Specialty.

The settlement allowed him to live in a hotel.

He loved hotels because he loved the room service and all of that stuff.

And, of course, I would go visit him.

And he would want to talk about the music of the time.

"Who's this new thing?

Who's this new guy coming up, you know?"

- Don't have to be beautiful -Hair, makeup, looked very, very like Little Richard.

He said, "I was the first one!

I was doing it before y'all.

Prince, are you listening?"

He would constantly say that.

"There wouldn't be no Prince or no Michael Jackson without me."

- Your butt is mine Gon' tell you right, ah Just show your face -When you look at Michael Jackson with his own feminine aesthetic... - I'm bad, I'm bad -...the look and style, the whoops and hollers... -Whoo!

-They've upset these firm divisions between masculine and feminine.

So I don't think we get to a Michael Jackson moment without a Little Richard moment three decades earlier.

In fact, you can find similar examples all the way through the '80s.

-I remember the first time I ever met Little Richard and the first time I met Liza Minnelli.

- Good times -And both of them commented on what I was wearing.

[ Laughs ] I mean, Liza -- this is her exact words.

She went, "I want that, that, that, that, that, that, that, and that."

And Little Richard said something to the effect of, "What are you talking about, baby?

I did that 25, 30 years ago."

[ Laughs ] - Good times -He always made me laugh.

But Little Richard, at that moment, is telling you everything about the world of being a Black artist in his time.

-I think if you think about who invented rock 'n' roll, who did create this style of music, usually, you know, your Elvis Presleys get the accolades.

-Presley died at the age of 42 at Graceland, the mansion his music had paid for.

-He was the undisputed king of rock 'n' roll.

-He was the birth of rock 'n' roll, and he'll live on forever.

-I would've thought Elvis gotta be the king of rock 'n' roll.

-I like Elvis very much.

Yeah.

But Richard was the one that created a new type of music.

But the white media would always put Elvis first.

-When I started singing rock 'n' roll, wasn't nobody singing it.

Listen, when I started, "Whoo!"

wasn't nobody sayin' that.

-We found it very hard.

That was the way it was.

Racism in America.

-See, they didn't want a Black guy to be the one to create rock 'n' roll 'cause the white kids liked it, and they didn't want the white girls screaming over no Black boy.

[ Cheers and applause ] And by me being -- by me being a Black guy and a good-looking Black guy... [ Cheers and applause ] -When he'd got on TV, he seemed so jolly.

He seemed so friendly about it.

-And you know I'm not conceited.

-No, no.

-I've never been that way.

-No.

-You know I don't believe in stuff like that.

-I hope nobody mistakes this... -I hope -- I'm not -- You all, I'm not conceited.

-No!

-I'm convinced.

[ Laughter ] -He'd laugh and joke about it on TV.

But it wasn't funny to Richard.

My friend Richard.

If he were living today, I wouldn't say this.

In the back room, when we was alone, he had tears in his eyes.

You could see the hurt.

I understood him so much.

Not just as a man, as a blues singer, as a Black man.

They stole his music.

And when they crowned people as the king of rock 'n' roll, and it wasn't him, that tore Richard.

-The Grammy Awards here in New York.

-It's the first time the ceremony has been held here in seven years as the music business gathers to honor its best.

-The Grammys are the industry's way of celebrating itself.

-Right here, honey!

-Okay.

Wait a minute.

I'm gonna smile like a white lady.

[ Laughter and cheers ] - Way you make-a me feel -And that year, you know, Michael Jackson was supposed to be the glittery center of this show.

But, you know, Little Richard had been invited to the party.

-The one and only Little Richard!

-And even though he's never been given a Grammy Award, he's there presenting one.

[ Cheers and applause ] -What?

-I used to wear my hair like that.

[ Laughter ] They take everything I get.

They take it from me.

-Hoo!

-He can't get that, though.

-[ Laughs ] All right, now -- -Wait a minute.

Look at the hair.

-You could see it was tense.

-I used to wear my -- I used to hide Easter eggs in mine.

-He's influenced all these people throughout his career.

-Now?

-Shut up.

[ Laughter ] -He didn't get his just do.

But Richard didn't just lay down and cry.

-And the Best New Artist is... -He did what he needed to do.

[ Laughter ] -Me.

[ Laughter, cheers, applause ] I have never received nothing.

You all ain't never gave me no Grammy.

[ Laughter ] And I been singing for years.

I am the architect of rock 'n' roll.

You ain't never gave me nothing!

-That was a beautiful moment.

You can see everybody in the audience think that it's time to give him his flowers.

-And I am the originator.

[ Cheers and applause ] And I still say, "Whooo!"

[ Cheers and applause ] And the winner is...still me.

[ Laughter ] -When I watch that footage, it reminds me of church, where people get up and testify, where they lay their burdens down.

And that's the path to salvation.

So Little Richard came to testify on this night.

And he does it in such a Little Richard way.

-Shut up.

[ Laughter ] Whoo!

[ Laughs ] [ Laughter ] The winner really is me.

-It's a beautiful thing to watch Little Richard take up space.

-Richard?

[ Laughter ] Richard.

-Shut up.

[ Laughter ] And the winner is... Jodi Watley!

[ Cheers and applause ] -A moment for him where he can honor the people who were inspired by him and, at the same time, remind people who tend to forget, "I helped create that."

-Ladies and gentlemen, stand up and give it up for the incredible Little Richard!

-After that, he started getting the recognition that had been missing.

-Seeing that, it's reminding me I was 83 years old when I won my first Grammy.

It wasn't because I didn't have big records.

Because the odds are stacked against me.

The odds was stacked against Little Richard.

[ Cheers and applause ] But he overcome all of that.

[ Cheers and applause ] So I understood what he was crying about.

I told him, "It's better late than never."

-I want you to know tonight that rhythm and blues had a baby, and somebody named it rock 'n' roll.

[ Cheers and applause ] I think that was a win for all the Black people who were the originators of rock 'n' roll.

But, Richard... you the king.

-The last time I was at the hotel, I spent three days there, and...

I never saw him happier.

That's my last memory of him.

-In those days, they'd bring him out in a wheelchair, but he still loved to go out on the road.

He would always say, "The beauty is on duty."

-Let me bring you some breaking news.

The singer Little Richard has died, aged 87.

-Finally, tonight, we're remembering a music legend.

Rock 'n' roll icon Little Richard has died.

-While he swerved in and out of the rock 'n' roll lifestyle, Little Richard remained close to his religious and gospel roots, sometimes struggling with his own sexuality.

-For me, the main thing about Little Richard's music and contribution is that, before "Tutti Frutti," music was always above the waist.

[ Laughs ] And Little Richard took notice of the fact that -- that the whole body could be involved.

-He left a big footprint.

Crazy, wild clothes, jumping up and down, working the stage, standing on the piano.

There was nobody doing that before Richard.

-His life was a constant reminder of what queer Black people have given to mainstream popular music.

-Thinking about Little Richard brings tears to my eyes.

I mean, he was one of those artists that carved out that path for others to walk down.

-You know, I definitely think he has a big influence on me and everybody like me.

- Whether you're high or low -Janelle Monae, Lizzo.

Everybody in today's culture... - I'm bad as Michael Jackson -...has a little of that swagger of Little Richard, and they may not even know it.

- Good golly, Miss Molly Sure like to ball Whooo Good golly, Miss Molly Sure like to ball When you rockin' and rollin' Can't hear your mama call