Independent Lens

200-and-something years for 4 attempted murders. -90 to life. -2 life sentences.

Man

There are no violent offenses that are juvenile. You rape somebody, you're an adult. You shoot somebody, you're an adult.

Boy

My charges are murder in the first degree.

Man

These are evil, menacing people. Mini Charlie Mansons.

Woman

I don't want him to, like, be dead or anything. I just want him to pay a price, like, for what he did.

Announcer

Director Ben Lear takes his camera beyond the barbed wire...

Man

When you're 16 to 23, you are temporarily insane.

Boy

If they tell me I'm never gonna get out again, I don't know what I'm gonna do. It's like there's nothing to look forward to, there's no hopes.

Man

Parole board has to consider that kids are different than adults.

Announcer

to take a hard look at juvenile offenders tried as adults.

Boy

It makes me feel like "How did you allow yourself to get in this?"

Announcer

"They Call Us Monsters" now only on "Independent Lens."

Phone dialing

Announcer

Woman,

on recording

You have 50 minutes.

Man

You got 50 minutes. Hello?

Woman and man speaking Spanish

Tonight's special

underage criminals robbing, beating, and raping people in the streets.

Woman

This man and this teenage boy were knifed and shot to death by children-- children 16 or younger, who cannot be tried for their crimes.

Man

Prosecutors blame rehabilitation programs for losing control of young offenders. Did the juvenile system rehabilitate your son? No. No. It did not.

Gingrich

There are no violent offenses that are juvenile. You rape somebody, you're an adult. You shoot somebody, you're an adult.

Jennings

More and more states are prosecuting children as adults.

Man

Under the new law, 15-year-olds can be tried as adults. 250,000 juveniles a year are being transferred to adult courts now. The 13-year-old suspect will now be tried as an adult. If you commit an adult crime, you do adult time. -15-year-old... -18-year-old... He was 12 at the time.

Woman

The first 11-year-old ever to face life in prison without parole.

Man

The age of the assailant is of no consequence. Rehabilitation is a word from a dead language. We don't talk about rehabilitation anymore. You want to see a rehabilitation? Go to a museum.

Boy

Ball!

Jumps on floor

Door bangs shut

Boy

God... Look who it is. Hernandy. What's up, fool? Look at them guys. Hey, hey, hey, hey. -So, what's up with you? -Hey... Ha ha ha! Ease up, fool.

Chairs scraping floor

Gabe

How are ya? All right. So, um, kind of the idea here is to crack open our imaginations, come up with a story and-- and write a 10-page screenplay in 10 weeks. Let's get it started. We're gonna play a game called "Yes, and..." We're gonna say a couple of sentences, I'm gonna pass the ball to somebody, and you're gonna just pick the story up.

Pops lips

Gabe

It started with these 3 cockroaches named, um... Johnny, um, Jose, and John. And they smoked a lot of marijuana, and they had the munchies late night. You say cucaracha, right? All right. So... Yes, and they got in the car, got

bleep

Gabe

drunk, got some girls. And they couldn't even do anything with the girls 'cause they were so drunk, so they just pass out. Yes, and they run into an anaconda. And when the anaconda gets ahold of 'em, an alligator shows up to the scene. This is an alligator that has taken some serious psychology classes. He's like, "Guys, I tell you what. "I will save both of your lives by not eating you if you both decide not to beat up each other." And they all lived happily ever after. -Yes and though, -Ha ha ha! The anaconda wasn't so frank with this idea. This anaconda wraps Steve, Chico, Pedro, and Garfield all up, choking 'em, killing 'em. He thinks, "I'm not gonna be hungry for a while." And down they all go, and that's where the story ends. Aww...so they got...

Laughter

Gabe

Of course.

Antonio

You had to make the ending negative, didn't you?

Gabe

Uh-huh. Say your charge and then how much time you're facing. -To the camera? -To me. All right. I'm facing 200-and-something years for 4 attempted murders.

Woman

Think it was a Friday. It might have been a Saturday. He'd been staying home a lot, always wanting to be around me and I couldn't figure it out. Well, it was him and his best friend were there, 'cause his best friend used to stay with us, too. I made him chili dogs and chili cheese fries. And we're sittin' there watching TV and stuff, and all of a sudden I hear something. And Jarad's like, "Mom, I think they're calling my name."

Jarad

I was playin' Xbox, smokin' a blunt, and

bleep

Jarad

said, "Jarad Nava, come out the house." I said, "What the

bleep

Jarad

? God?" Ha ha! "God?" And I tried to jump out the bathroom window. I was just--cops right there. So I jump out my mom's window, there's cops. I ain't get nowhere. I was like "

Bleep

Jarad

."

Susette

Like you see in the movies. They had the big old vests on, big old guns, everything. And then the

bleep

Susette

slammed me. "Oh,

bleep

Susette

." And then they--they had me handcuffed on the grass. And they tell me, like, "You better enjoy touchin' the grass, for the last time you're ever gonna touch it." I say, "Yeah, alright." And then that was the last time I ever touched it.

Laughter

Susette

I start crying, and I fell to my knees. I just hugged him 'cause he was already in handcuffs. And he was, like, "Don't worry, mom. It's gonna be OK."

Gabe

When did they tell you what you were being arrested for? When the detectives came to talk to me. Like you're in an interrogation room? -Yeah. -You're cuffed? You're in a room by yourself? Where are you? Yeah, you're cuffed. Little ass room. Like, probably like, like this size, like from the third chair to that right here. Put your hand over. -What's happening, man? -What's up? You OK, man? You want water or something? No, I'm OK. -You all right? -Yeah.

Jarad

There's a cop right there lookin' at you the whole time. just talking, saying to you, like, "Where you from? Oh, so you think you hard, mother

bleep

Jarad

." I'm like, "Damn, dog, no, dog. You know, just chillin'."

Antonio

Leave me alone. I just wanna go home. I'm cold. Ha ha ha!

Gabe

I mean, talk about an amazing scene that could be written where there's a power struggle.

Man

Are you good on syrup or are they dry? They're good?

Freddy

I haven't been the same since he got...in trouble. I just haven't, and I trying to because I need to take care of these girls, you know.

Girl

I'm not sure if you would call it, like, responsible, but he was a crazy babysitter.

Girl with glasses

Like, he would tell us to do, like, dares and all that. We used to, like, slide across the coffee table. Parents wouldn't like it. Ha! Just sayin'.

Gabe and boys

Happy birthday to you Happy birthday to you

Boy

Cha cha cha. -Do you not want that? -Yeah, I want that. I would like to wait till I get some milk. I got some milk in the room. Oh, you got some--oh, you're gonna save it till after. -Save it. Save it. -Can you? All right. OK. I don't think he wants it. I might eat the wrapper, too.

Gabe

Well, while you guys are eating sugar, let me show you something. It's really short. Two minutes long.

Man

Well, basically, the DA came to all of us and said, "I know y'all don't want to go to trial. "If you do, I can guarantee you, you're gonna lose. "We wanted to give him 25, "but due to the fact all the letters he got "and everybody that's been comin' to court, today he could take 15." So we end up takin' the 15. "Dear Pops, First things first. "Man, thank you for being here and there for me. "The cell is nasty. Mattress has got blood all over it, "roaches big as rats. "It's hot as hell in these cells. "I'm celled-up with a 50-year-old man, "who looks 10 years older. "I wanted to drop a tear my first night, but I couldn't. "Ain't no family, ain't no love. "Ain't no AC in here, ain't

bleep

Man

here. "But when you see everyone, let me know what's goin' on, "'cause I'm holdin' on. I love you." Boys,

chanting

G-o-o-d m-o-r-n-i-n-g! Good morning! Good morning! Good morning! Good morning! Good morning!

Man

Alpha! All good to stand. As you were. Charlie! Stand. Charlie, two-slap. Ten hut! Double-time it out. Good job, Charlie.

Antonio speaking

Man

It's too far, though.

Jarad

You want to sit there and watch some girls. That's kind of weird, you know? I mean, let me just sit there and watch these girls play for an hour. Oh, my God. Uh, oh, my God.

Antonio

When you go to medical, sometimes you'll see a girl right there. You like be sitting probably like where she is right there, and you're right here. No matter how pretty the girl is--oh, thanks. No matter how pretty the girl is, like, it kind of just... I can't pay attention to her 'cause the fact that she's, like, locked up. It's just unattractive to me. Yeah, I like my women innocent. I'm serious.

Humming

Gabe

I volunteered to teach a screenwriting class for kids who are facing life sentences. The idea being the kids would come up with the characters and the situations, write the dialogue, and then I would shoot their movie. There's so many things they can't do from prison, but they can write screenplays, they can write poetry, they can write books. What else are they gonna do for the next 90 years? So, what's our screenplay about, guys?

Juan

Like, we in jail, and everybody expect us to write a movie about violence and crime and all that

bleep

Juan

. And I think it will be cool, we make something different.

Jarad

Maybe, like, put all of our journeys into one? What if, like, the setup is kinda like, um...

Zipper zips

Antonio

This kid, age 12...

Baby crying

Antonio

He's taking care of that baby. What's the matter? That hungry, hungry baby

Juan

The scene is, like, he's picking the baby up, you know, trying to calm it down, and the mom walks in. What are you kids doing? Like, the mom, she's always angry because her job, she works so much. You know, she just go home angry all the time.

Woman

You can't even take care of your sister when I'm at work? And she's like, "What the

bleep

Woman

did you do to the baby? Whoa, whoa, whoa. -I was just makin' food. -You know, give me the bottle and get to school, Chris. I can't deal with you right now.

Juan

He feels hurt and he just leave, you know? Yeah. That's a good one, too. Oyai. I love you, OK? OK, Mom. The whole day, everything he does is out of the ordinary, pretty much like the first time for everything. So he ditches school for the first time. Yeah, write that down. Write that down. I think that's our first scene. What's up? Ha ha! Come on! This the main dining hall right here. I put in these custom-- this is silver. This is where the parties go down. You think about what you want to drink, and this fountain produces it. This is our fridge, though, right here. Don't get no better than that. We got our common orange juice, in the freezer here we got Hot Pockets. You know? Anything you could put in the microwave, we have. This is the honeymoon suite. This where all the magic goes down. You see this right here? When you gettin' it in, late night, slidin' in, we--we videotape it for you so you can keep it as a memory and watch the tape over and over. Take pictures! Oh, look. It's our homeboy Juan. -What's up, Juan? -Hey, what's up, man? He has the luxury of several chairs sent from England. King George actually sat in one of these chairs. Twice. And he farted on that one. Ha ha ha! Yeah. This is some antique art we had installed when we first bought the place. We figured, you know, spice it up a little. We got the his/hers/ hers/his/hers sinks with the his/hers/hers/ his/hers toilets, followed by the his/hers/ hers/his/hers showers.

Antonio

Regular room, 60 bucks a night. Honeymoon suite, 250 a night.

Jarad

Hotel California. Let's all say you could check out. You could check in any time you want But you can never leave Ha ha ha!

Gabe

So, today, I wanted to start by talking about fear, conflict, and the themes. Cool. So, fear is kind of the biggest motivator in movies. I want you to write down 5 things you could be afraid of.

Antonio

Fear of trust, fear of being alone, fear of public speaking, and fear of vulnerability.

Juan

Death, loneliness, dark--darkness, and love.

Jarad

Um, there's a fear of snakes. I'm not--well, I don't like snakes, so... There's a fear of heights. I'm not scared of heights, but it's a fear. -The dark. -Mm-hmm. You guys both have that. Nah. I'm not scared of the dark. Seems like you're avoiding the question. No. Like maybe you're afraid of the question. Yes, I'm afraid of your question. Makes me want to curl up in a little ball and cry. No. It makes you want to joke about it and not answer it. What fear am I supposed to admit? The fear of admitting fear. Fear--fear of death, fear of loneliness, fear of isolation. fear of staying here. No. I'm scared of snakes. Ha ha ha! Well, you had "love" on yours. -Yeah. -Why? 'Cause it's like... afraid of love, without being loved back, you know? I think you continuously find yourself talking about love. Why is that? No, I--ha ha ha! Why is that? I wanna see that side of you. No, you don't wanna see that. Ha ha!

Gabe

Have any of you guys ever been in love? Um... I guess it was love. Gabe,

chuckling

You guess it was love? What do you mean? What do you mean?

Jarad

Love, caressing your body Have you ever been in love?

Juan

I'm 18 years old. I'm facing, well, basically, 2 life sentences. My charges are attempted murder and murder the first degree. -Where's that at? -El Salvador.

Gabe

What--what's the name?

Juan

What?

Gabe

What's his name? It's me. -This is you? -Yeah. Ha ha! -These are both you? -Yes. You have the same facial hair still.

Juan

I know. Ha ha ha! He has more right there, actually. Oh...she's pretty. I had a crush on her since I was in kindergarten. Did you ever come on to her? Nah, I never told her. Did you want to tell her? Yeah, but I never had the balls to tell her. Do you know what's up with her? -I know she's doing good. -Does she have kids? -Uh-uh. -She have a guy in her life? I don't know. I wonder if, like, if she thinks about me, you know? Well, I don't think so. I--well, I--I I think she thinks about me but not the way I think about her, maybe. I put the poem in her backpack, and she didn't see it until, like, 3 days after. And then she started reading it, and she started, like, laughing, but not making fun, just, like, you know, like, and she asked me, "Who do you think it was?" And I went--ha ha! I said, "I don't know." Ha ha! I even joined, like, a

bleep

Juan

-- a dance team for her. Ha ha ha ha! She was funny. We dressed like chickens

bleep

Juan

. Ha ha! She joined the team, and I wanted to be with her, you know? So I joined it, too. Sometimes I didn't have anything to eat. I just would go over there and just eat, you know. Her mom, like, she was cool with me, but at the same time, she wouldn't allow her to walk with me somewhere, you know, or anything like that. 'Cause, like, from the whole school that I was attending, it was only me, like, only me that, like a--lost, you know? OK, let's get back to it, 'cause we got 5 minutes left. What's the main girl's name? -Hmm? -What's your lady's name? -Her real name? -Yeah. -Abigail. -Abigail.

Gabe

How are you guys with the name Abigail for the girl our guy likes?

Boy

It's a nice name. -Are you OK with it? -Hell yeah. -"Hell, yeah." -Ha ha ha!

Woman

Take 7, pick up marker.

Man

Are we supposed to be on her?

Man 2

Yeah, yeah.

Gabe

OK, and action.

Antonio

She laughs and calls him cocky and takes the criticism as a compliment. She was kind of getting to where she was still a bit skeptical about him. She then--

Jarad

Hey, that was supposed to be without dialogue. Well, it's not actually quoting what they're saying, so it's not actual dialogue, smartass.

Gabe

You know what? He's never missed a single assignment. You got to be criticizing the one thing I did wrong. Honor roll award. Congratulations to me for outstanding academic achievement. I like how that sounds. Excellence award. Oh, here. I've literally sat here and read all these pamphlets. The Army, Navy Reserve, special award for a combat...craft crewman. Pretty elite, but not as elite as I want to go. Oh, there we go. "Take the SEAL physical screening test. "Do this, and you just might be ready to take on SEAL training. "Five hundred-yard swim using breast and/or side stroke in under 12 minutes and 30 seconds."

Snaps fingers

Gabe

Done. "Perform a minimum of 42 push-ups." Done. "Fifty sit-ups in two minutes' rest." Done. "Six pull-ups. No time limit. Ten-minute rest." Done. I could do that right now, as we speak. The best part about it, part I think I like the best, is that if me, personally, being me, make it into the SEALS, that's like a big

bleep

Gabe

you to the U.S. Government. That's what that is right there.

Antonio

Attempted murder. Well, I have two counts. They're trying to accuse me of that, so 90 to life. Each one is actually 25 to life, so that's 50, but I have a few enhancements... like gun enhancements. They say I fired a weapon, and they say I had possession of a weapon, which they can't prove, but...

bleep

Antonio

happen, happen. I don't...feel that I regret anything. I just feel that... I understand how

bleep

Antonio

up it--

bleep

Antonio

I've done is, and how the person might have felt, but I still feel like... I don't know. I don't feel, like, remorse, I guess.

Man

Youth are different from adults. Neuroscience tells us that young people lack impulse control, judgment, and the ability to assess risks and consequences. I rise in opposition. These are evil, menacing people. Mini Charlie Mansons. This is absolutely outrageous that we're gonna release these little psychopaths back into the streets to yet murder again. I urge a "no" vote.

Gabe

Is there one story that you'd like to tell, or like to be shown? The loss of innocence. Loss of innocence. Any reason why? I guess it happen to everybody, like, when you are a kid, like, you think, like, your mom or your dad is a certain way, and then you grow up and you find out that maybe not. We can talk about that for another minute? No. Heh heh heh! -Well, did that happen for you? -Yeah. Do you guys have an idea of what-- 'cause, I mean, I love this idea. I had the same thing with my parents, where it's, like, you kind of realize that they're a person like you.

Antonio

Like, no matter what, I can never look at my mom as, like, a regular person. I don't know. It's like she's a

bleep

Antonio

alien, you know?

Jarad

I think it's the moment you don't see 'em as a superhero no more. Like, I don't know about you guys. I mean-- -Like, see 'em as human? -Yeah.

Gabe

Has there been a moment like that for you?

Jarad

Me personally, no, but a friend had told me a story that at, like, 3:00

or 4

00 in the morning, and he went in the backyard, like, saying that he's seen his pops trying to kill himself and

bleep

or 4

. He was hurt, like, I guess you could say hurt. You know, why would he have been trying... Did your friend tell you how his dad was trying to kill himself? Yeah, that--with a knife. He was trying to stab himself and

bleep

or 4

.

Gabe

And your friend saw that? Yeah. And he was 12.

Freddy Nava

That moment, I just felt helpless. I was stabbing myself, I stabbed myself, but I guess I didn't... puncture it hard, and--or didn't go far--far enough. I probably got, like, 3 stabs in me, and then Jarad came running, and he just started crying, like, he was like, "What the heck are you doing, Dad?" And that is what got me to, like, "Whoa," you know? Like, I probably would have kept doing it, you know? But when he came in I just, like--that was it, you know? So I tried to pretend it never happened, but I couldn't imagine that was good for him. That probably did have some long-lasting effect on him. Um... Hmm.

Girl

Our parents separated...

voice cracks

Girl

and a lot was going on.

Susette Hirschoff

We ended up splitting up, and I think that's kinda when things kinda fell apart with all the kids. Started hanging out with this older crowd, and I noticed the behavior started changing, you know? And I started feeling him slipping, probably, like, 4 or 5 months before he got arrested. I tried calling the police department. I was, like, "I need help, he's taken off, I don't know what to do," you know? Found a spray can in his room, and I told the police officer. "Well, I'm sorry, Mrs. Nava, there's nothing that we can do until he commits a crime."

Girl

He got caught up with the wrong people.

Girl 2

When we next saw him, he was on the sidewalk with a couple of his friends, talking to the police.

Freddy Nava

I was at the police station every day for a couple of weeks. I said, "I don't care if you guys send him "to some kind of home or something. "I don't want him to be on the street. The street is gonna eat him up and spit him out." Exactly what happened. Now look where he's at. I mean, it's not his fault, but... things just happen, I guess.

Gabe

Do you blame your brother at all for the decisions that he made? No.

Woman on video

What are you trying to do? You want to end up like your brother? I smell it. You want to end up like him?

Chuckling

Woman on video

You're smart, OK? You have an ability. Don't

bleep

Woman on video

it up.

Boy on video

Seems like he's the one who really

bleep

Boy on video

up.

Woman

Really? Do you know how hard I work? Do you know how hard I work? I get up at 5 a.m., I go to work all-- I'm trying to do work here, man. -Nava! -Hey, um--

Gabe

Can you not

bleep

Gabe

with me? We've got, like, an hour left of class. I'm trying to do work. I'm serious about this. Are you gonna stick your finger in my ear? Are you gonna

bleep

Gabe

with our buddy right here? Let me ask you a question. Making fun of me in front of the classmates, what did you want to get out of me? I was just

bleep

Gabe

with you. And what did you want?

Man

For most of them, the trials are given. Most of the kids are pretty heavily implicated in some way or another, and so it's really just a question of when the axe falls. So you're awaiting trial-- it's the tension, but it's not so much tension about outcome, unfortunately. It's usually tension about when it's gonna be coming down and, you know, where you're gonna do your time. It's before this, I think. Where are we now? 112. Let's try 108. I think it's around there. Where are we at? 107. I think it might be right here. We're watching the scene of a fixed camera that was installed at MacArthur Park for purposes of security. And it does have what appears to be the shooting. Juan and a fellow gang member walked into the park that night, and one of them shot the victim 3 to 4 times at point-blank range. I think it's these two kids. There it comes. Do you know how I show you the pictures of my childhood? And I look at them, and I look at myself, and how I--I was growing up and all that stuff. And it makes me feel like I shouldn't be here, like, how did you allow yourself to get in this, like. Ah. Ow.

Giggles

Man

Ow. Right there. Ah. Ha ha!

Cell phone ringtone playing

Woman on recording

An inmate in the men's central jail...

Kathy Gamez

Everything that Kevin would do, he would want to do it, too; everything, you know? Ha ha ha!

Kathy

I'm not saying Kevin was tough or anything, but I guess they saw him as like that, and they felt like Juan wasn't the same as him, and they thought that Kevin was better than Juan. You want to hear?

Gabe

Yeah. Do you? All right. What happened? Well, how old were you? It's my homeboy's story. OK. How old was your homeboy? -13. -Uh-huh.

Juan

So, my homeboy, like, he was, like, he was trying to get in the gang. His brother was already in the gang. So his brother told him, "All right, get the biggest knife that you have, all right?" There was this guy. They had played this guy, being from the rival gang, and the homeboys, they told him that they were from the same gang as him. So they play everything, you know, like, just right, you know, like, "Yeah, you know, I kick it with you." They kill him, right? So they kill him, and my homeboy, he used a knife, you know? He always felt, like, that he needed to do something, like, better than his brother, you know? Something to stand out. He did. He did, like, when the-- as the time went by, he did, but, you know.

Jonathan

A juvenile is not a full human being. When you're 16 to 23, you are temporarily insane. Physiologically, you have elements that are similar to a person that's mentally ill. If you track those people after that age, most of them, by the time they're adults, stop engaging in criminal activity.

Mike

Public safety. Public safety should override everything. What's in the back of any judicial officer's mind is, "If I give this individual a break, what's the likelihood of that person going out and harming someone else?" That, indeed, happens. You have to be very careful.

Woman

There are very few bills that I struggle with in this building. Normally, the bills you guys bring to this floor, I'm, like, "Dear God, what are you thinking?" And it's an easy no. This bill, um... I have a huge concern with. So this woman right here is the most conservative, hardcore Republican in the entire assembly. She votes no on everything, and she's someone that goes hard every time, so when she said, "I'm conflicted, I don't know what to do," literally everyone--look at people's attention, finally. When you take God out of our schools...

Scott

'Cause she's somebody that normally would say, like, "Let's take 'em out behind the back of the building and just shoot 'em." Like, why put 'em in prison? Like, she's hardcore. The bill says that you go to the parole board immediately at 15 years, and they can send you home on that day, the parole board.

Jarad

Why have we got so quick to just push it to 15, instead of, like, trying to fight it for ten? We basically were told by the person who runs the assembly that if you want this bill to pass, you need it to be at 15. If you leave it at ten, it's not gonna pass. What got better is, the bill basically says kids are different than adults, and the parole board has to consider that kids are different than adults, which is, like, epic. That's a huge change.

Richard Bloom

There is evil in the world. There is evil in this world, and for the truly evil, there is nothing you can do. This bill's not about them. This bill is about the opportunity for a youthful offender to prove that he or she has overcome his or her past.

Boy

Oh, fight. Oh,

bleep

Boy

. Someone's getting down with it. Look.

Gabe

We have to have a script. Two more weeks. Four more classes, we got to have the script finished.

Jarad

What's up, buddy? I'm gonna make my way around. Don't trip. What's up, buddy?

Gabe

I feel like you don't have your work on you, brother.

Jarad

I didn't know we were supposed to do work. What's up, Nico? What's up there, Gabe?

Gabe

That is not true. That is not true. What's up, buddy? How you doing? Doing good. Hey, have a seat. Let's get to work, man.

Jarad

What's up, buddy? Mother-

bleep

Jarad

. So, you didn't do your work? You told us before we left, right here, you're like, "Well, I didn't give you guys homework." I talked to you. I looked you in the eye. I had you look me in the face and repeat back to me what we were gonna do. -No, you didn't. -I told you to write a scene. -About what? -Four weeks. We have four more classes to write this entire script, and we haven't really written much of it. I think we should write it out, like, the whole time line. You want to write it up?

Antonio

Well, he gets kicked out of his pad, and that's when he goes and gets-- lost his virginity, right?

Jarad

Then he goes to get high instead of going to school. Shotgun with the girl. -No, no, no, wait. -That's part of getting high. Yeah, but then you got to add that--then he goes to Jack-in-the-Box, goes to the friend's house, goes in the room, doesn't

bleep

Jarad

. They think he

bleep

Jarad

. Congratulations, high-five, home.

Antonio

I think we should make him

bleep

Antonio

the girl. -Nah, 'cause it makes him-- -'Cause, I mean, look-- in all real--I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I just think it'd be more realistic if he does, or if--

Jarad

I think he should just not

bleep

Jarad

her. He's 12 years old, all, like,

bleep

Jarad

, it's a movie. You got to think about all the audiences. Like, if we see--we want parents to watch this, we can't have him

bleep

Jarad

this girl, and then he wants to go and say he loves this girl. Like, I don't understand-- He's 12 years old, he's

bleep

Jarad

12, you know?

Antonio

I think that's just too much of, like, a mature decision for a 12-year-old.

Jarad

It's just not right. I think he's not ready--

Gabe

Something doesn't feel right. He almost does, but then, like you said, she turns into a mentor. This is a traumatic change, but what if Valeria gets shot? Like, what if some people just roll up and Valeria's the one that gets shot?

Antonio

Maybe not. Remember, you said violence is, like, the last thing we're supposed to do, is just, like, everybody's expecting that from us. How real is it in your guys' community? I mean,

bleep

Antonio

, it's an everyday thing. You hear it every day, but you don't see it every day. -Yeah. -You don't see it every day? -You hear it. -You'll be, like, in your backyard--pop, pop! I had always seen, like, the aftermath, like, a

bleep

Antonio

body on the floor or somebody being picked up, put into a back of a car, taken to the emergency room.

Gabe

When was the first time you saw a shooting?

Antonio

Think I was, like, 8, maybe? I was going to a neighbor's house to pick something up. Like,

bleep

Antonio

, I think my mom let the lady borrow a frying pan or something. There's a guy walking, and this

bleep

Antonio

car just comes out of nowhere, and I just see the arm come out the car and just, boom, he just starts shooting at him, you know? And this guy just dropped. Well, he had, like,

bleep

Antonio

, 4 bullet holes in his head, and just, you know, just blood, and his

bleep

Antonio

brains were on the floor. And I was, like, 8 years old and ten feet away from that

bleep

Antonio

, you know? But I don't think I was traumatized. I just... you kinda get used to it. I don't know. Can you even get--I don't-- I guess you do kind of get used to it.

Man

They only get an hour a week, and they love that hour a week. They're high-risk offenders. I'm talking murder, attempted murder, assault and battery, assault with a deadly weapon, hold-ups, stick-ups. Why do they deserve it? I mean, it's a hard question, 'cause what about their victims? For some of 'em, it's a last hurrah. I've visited prisons where you literally see them, inmates, showering in the sinks or showering out of that toilet. Just their last opportunity, you know? They're back to being kids.

All shouting

Man

Ah! ha ha! Ah, I survived.

Laughter and clamoring

Jarad

So, is my dad trying to get me this lawyer, or what the

bleep

Jarad

, 'cause... Well, maybe, like, if it turns out like that, maybe even appeal, I could just try and get to the lawyer on appeal. If all--you know? Why you sound so riled up? Breathe, relax.

Gabe

What's going on? It's all right. I got some good news on Tuesday, so... Oh, you did? -Potential good news. -What happened? Well, a private lawyer came and talked to me. He just kinda told me something better than 15 to life. Oh. But he said 20,000 in payments. So you got to raise 20 thou. What are you gonna-- I don't know. It's my only problem. -Yup. -Gonna rob a bank.

Antonio

No, Hernandez has some really good news. The whole appeal thing I had going to get back into juvenile court, yesterday I went to court, and the judge ruled in my favor. If they give me time served, I'll get released automatically because next month, I'll have a year and a half locked up.

Juan

You're gonna go home.

Gabe

Awesome.

Antonio

It's surreal, even now as I'm talking about it. It's kind of--I can't believe it, you know? I don't like talking about it much 'cause I feel like I'm

bleep

Antonio

, like, rubbing it in or something, you know? That's not something to do, you know?

Jarad

I'm happy, you know? When it's somebody you really affiliate with, it's a good thing, you know? Somebody got out, you know I mean? Dag. What?

Bleep

Jarad

love you, dawg. Hey, you got taller.

Bottles clink

Woman

I feel, like, you're free, I'm free, you know? That's how I feel. That's how I feel right now. It's crazy, but that's how I feel. I just act like crazy, hugging everybody. "Oh, God bless you, God bless you," like, I can't believe it, you know? Like, oh, my God!

Antonia

I feel like something good is coming for my son. Pyoo! Ha ha! Pyoo!

Gabe

So this is what a script looks like. -Yeah, I wrote that. -This is a screenplay format. -You did write this. -Oh, this is for me? -Mm-hmm. -I'm gonna study this tonight. -So... -I'm gonna get hot. this is just kind of what we've been talking about. This isn't proper, and there's a bunch of... brother, can I get your attention just for a minute? I'm paying attention to you, Gabe. What do you want from me? What the

bleep

Gabe

? Who's Sophia? You're just adding characters without notifying of this? I did. -How old is Sophia? -Ten. Sophia's ten and saying, "

Bleep

Gabe

school"? Say that you don't like it. Say that you don't like it. We'll change it. Who's Salome? -That's his mom. -Salome? I don't know. I looked up Latina names. -What the

bleep

Gabe

? Maria? -You can rename her. -Ha ha! - Guys, you can rename her. Come in with notes, read the thing. Janet?

Bleep

Gabe

. All right, well, I

bleep

Gabe

that up.

Jarad

So everything that we gave to you, you just said, "

Bleep

Jarad

it, we'll demolish it"? -No, not at all. -Is that what's going on? -Mm-mm. -I feel

bleep

Jarad

hurt, dawg. Like, all this hard work that we've done for ten weeks, and--

Juan

Hey, what the

bleep

Juan

we doing this for? For real, like, this is bull-

bleep

Juan

, you know? Like,

bleep

Juan

. Well, that's what all writers do. That's what writers that get paid $1 million do. I don't appreciate-- Gabe, let me talk to you real quick. Come here. Come here.

Nathan

Don't go over there. Really, we got-- No, come here, real quick. Don't tell me the real version's gonna be like that, when I write some-- some sharing, then you're gonna change everything?

Gabe

This is just an outline. This is not even a first draft. This is part of the process. It's part of the writing process. Thursday,

at 4

00, we're gonna have a meeting. We're gonna set up the tables right there like last time, and I'm gonna be on the other side of the table this time, and you're gonna be the little guy stepping in my office, 'cause I'm gonna read this tonight twice.

Gabe

What did I ask you?

Freddy Nava

Today, Susette's got another counsel to represent Jarad. We were just uncomfortable with who we had representing him. I don't think he was doing the job. I just think he was just ready to just-- he was wanting us to take a 30-year deal. She has to read 4,600 pages of evidence in 8 days. So, like, I do a lot of DUI cases, and most of the time, when somebody's charged with a DUI, they're gonna end up pleading guilty to a DUI. Because of my experiences through the years, I don't have the nervous flutter that I'm gonna win. I never have that expectation. As a defense attorney, you're supposed to lose. If you had a shot at winning a trial, you would have resolved the case beforehand, and if you're realistic about that, you can set that issue aside and really focus on the issues. It's like the first time you do blow. It's never gonna be as good, it's never gonna be as bad as that first conviction. OK.

Officer on video

Were you the first person to shoot or the second person to shoot? Freddy Nava,

voice-over

That story is not correct. It's never gonna come about what really happened. There was more people in that car. They even talk about-- the girl said she was in the middle seat, and then she stuck her head out, you know? There's somebody else next to her. There was men in there. There was guys in there, but they won't ever say 'cause those guys don't want to-- they don't--they don't-- gang members don't fill out police reports, you know what I mean? They jumped out of the car, and the girls went to the hospital, and that's how it went down.

Scoffs

Woman

We were at a stop light, right? And I just see a, like, a truck just pull up, and then I see the guy, and then he's pointing the gun at the car, right? As the four of them sat in their car, a white truck pulled up in the opposing lane. The front passenger pulled out a gun, looked at Miss Suarez, and said, "You're gonna die today, bitch."

Yesenia

He just starts shooting. My sister just goes on top of me, but, unfortunately, I had already got shot. The bullet, like, 'cause it hit my lung first, so I was out of breath, so I couldn't talk.

Attorney

Miss Suarez drove down Orange Grove. The passenger of the white truck kept firing. Miss Suarez' vehicle was struck several times. She heard Marlene Castro in the back seat, yelling, "Yesenia's not breathing." It was just pain in my back. I mean, burning pretty much. And everything was just going in circles. I was losing my eyesight. Like, I felt like I was gonna die already. I was just in a coma for a week. I could just hear people, like, crying, praying for me. Everybody would tell me, like, "You're not gonna die. You're OK," but I felt like I was already dead. And when I woke up--back up, I knew I was already paralyzed. I mean, I didn't need nobody to tell me. I mean, I knew. I just wanted to hear it, you know? I mean, I feel like it's not fair, like, how people treat you, how they feel like you're less or...it's just--it's difficult. Like, you're just like them. I mean, you're not special or anything. I mean, I'm, like--I'm normal. It's just, I just can't walk. That's it. I feel so much anger towards the guys that did this to me. When they arrested him, I felt relieved. I mean, I don't want him to, like, be dead, or anything, you know? I just want him to pay a price, like, for what he did. So... I mean, I don't want him to stay there for the rest of his life, right? Probably, like...like 50 years. I don't know.

Jarad

We chose the way we lived. Like, if we didn't do the crime that we're accused of or we did, it's still that was the lifestyle we were around and that we chose. Can only get away with things for so long.

Child speaking indistinctly

Antonio

Ma, can I borrow your phone real quick?

Antonia

I have to borrow it, too. Just really quick? I don't-- -I have-- -Hey, come here. Hey. -What? -Come here. Want to meet my friend? Look. That's Louis, and that's Tony. He's the oldest. He's, I think, the second or third oldest. Who's older, him or Milton? The youngest is asleep. Hey, come inside.

Boys speaking at once

Antonia

Yeah, so I go to school, and it's very weird. I just felt uncomfortable, the whole suit and tie. Kids are squares. And we cannot relate in any way, shape, or form. I don't know. Everybody's just a little bit too nice. And a couple of days after my school's out, I find out we're getting evicted. Give me a kiss, Baba. Bye.

Antonio

So, my mom ended up coming over here to cram in with my sister. And I know I'm more than welcome to stay, but it's crowded as it is, so I don't even stay here, really. Three women and four toddlers. And I'm a growing young man.

Bleep

Antonio

is not gonna work.

Helicopter

Antonio

LAPD.

Interviewer

You been thinking about Jarad at all?

Antonio

Yeah. I haven't even wrote him. I feel like a sack of

bleep

Antonio

'cause I haven't wrote him. What the

bleep

Antonio

can I say? Hey Jarad, how you been? Well, here I've been just free, doing bad. Homeless. What the

bleep

Antonio

can I say?

Jarad

Problem number two. 10-year-old girl saying, "

Bleep

Jarad

school," Not digging it. OK. I had wrote some better, like, dialogue for that.

Gabe

Just a second. So the dialogue that you wrote is really direct. This dialogue, where she says, "

Bleep

Gabe

school," and he's, like, "Yeah,

bleep

Gabe

school," he's being cute with her without saying it. But that's not a good big brother. Why not? Because she's ten years old, saying, "

Bleep

Gabe

school," you know? No. Ha ha! There's a way that he could say, "Yeah,

bleep

Gabe

school," and disagree with her. I mean, I understand what you're saying, but I don't like it. OK, take it out.

Jarad

And then the coffee table is drowning in empty beer cans and ashtrays. It makes it sound like the mom's a crack-head or something. Uh-huh. You don't like that? Maybe we should change that part? Did you have fixes for those things? Yeah, I did. Great. Number 11. It seems redundant, like... OK. Well, I'm gonna disagree with you there, because, how do we set up that he's a poet? We see him writing? All right.

Man

Come on... Let's go, baby. Do it.

Gabe

On Saturday, we've got a bunch of actors coming. -Hey, man, I'm, Nate. -Jarad. -Nice to meet you, Jarad. -Hi. I'm Nora. Nice to meet you. And you're gonna direct the actors.

Jarad

You look very nervous there. It's all right.

Nate

I'm nervous. I've never attempted to kiss a woman in a cell before.

Jarad

You have our support. Just, whatever you feel in the moment.

Nate

All right, cool. All right. -We're good. -Action. Oh. No, no, no, no, no, no. Hey. What the hell is this? No, give me that. There--I'm not... Stop it. I'm reading.

Bleep

Nate

. -Come on. -Don't! "The moon is my only source of light. "The moon and the moon only helps me through my ordeal." Wow. Who's the girl?

Nate exhales

Nate

Abigail.

Nora

Why are you in here with me? If you love her, you need to tell her. You're kind of being a pussy. We're not gonna have sex. I understand.

Both laugh

Jarad

Cut. Well, that was

bleep

Jarad

awesome. Nora,

laughing

We did OK? I feel like what she's saying, those bullets are for me, like, 'cause I didn't say this

bleep

laughing

.

Gabe

Wait. What? Oh, that she's talking to you? Aw! Because he's Romeo. -Oh, no. -I mean, like, whoa! Whoa! Oh, sorry.

Laughter

Nora

That's tough. That's tough to deal-- I mean, Jesus. If a guy wrote this for me, like, I wouldn't say no.

Gabe

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Buttons are pushed on telephone keypad

Recording

You have 50 minutes.

Man

You got 50 minutes.

Both speaking Spanish

Boy as Juan

Abby.

Girl as Abby

I don't want to talk to you. Just wait. Abby, please. What? I wrote you something. He's gonna tell her. He's telling her.

Juan laughs

Recording

The call will be disconnected.

Ernesto

Things are hot around here. Like, you guys may-- not have noticed, but when she sat down, one of them passed by on his bike. He's just staring at me because they know who I am, and they know who my brother is, you know?

Indistinct conversations

Ernesto

I haven't known anything, like, where he's been for the past two days 'cause he hung up on me twice. He's tagging again, in the walls. And it's not good. It's not safe for him. But it's not like graffiti tagging. This is, like, the rival neighborhood. His enemies' territory. He's pretty much letting them know, like, you know, "I'm here.

Bleep

Ernesto

you guys. It's like he's challenging them, you know what I mean? It's not good. It's not good. When he got out, he was cool and everything. And just for about 4, 5 days ago, he started acting up. And me and her... 'Cause he's getting high. Nah, a signal... Well, yeah. When I spoke to him, he was way too accelerated. Like, he picked up my phone call already, like, speaking, you know? It wasn't even, "Oh, hello. What's up?" It was like, "Oh, hey, what's up? I'm right here, doing..." blah, blah, blah. It was, like, "Whoa. Slow down, man." I used to do the same thing, so I know what it's like. I'm pretty sure he's using, uh, crystal again. I'm--I'm sure.

Antonia

Do you love me?

Child

Yeah. How much? Hmm? Lots. A lot? Yeah. Hello? Huh? OK. OK. He's outside. I think he not doing good. He's super high. He don't like nobody seeing him like that.

TV program playing

Bleep

Child

. Huh?

Interviewer

This? Yeah. Long 4 days.

Chuckles

Interviewer

What's that? It's been a long 4 days.

Man on TV

"From a political and economic perspective, the Industrial Revolution in France..." Who reads this stuff?!

Laughter on TV

Man on TV

Have you spoken to Juan recently? Did he tell you what's going on? Well, what did he kind of tell you?

Mandel

As long as he doesn't screw up in custody, which he's not gonna do, then he'll be out within 12 years, given credits now. I don't know if I could win his case. Now, Juan said to the police, "I didn't know anything was gonna happen." Maybe. The video, maybe, the bikes, maybe, but enough of it is that I think he could go down. If Juan goes down, it's forever. Como se dice "forever" in Spanish? Eternidad?

Softly

Mandel

Para siempre... Para siempre. Para siempre.

Man

Juan Edgardo Gamez, sir, do you understand in exchange for a plea of guilty or no contest, by law, you will serve at a minimum 15 calendar years? However, you could potentially spend the rest of your life in state prison. Do you understand that?

Lawyer

Yes.

Man

Now, sir, your conviction in this case will result in your being deported. Do you understand those additional consequences? Yes. Juan,

voice-over

I tell my brother, like, live my life for me, you know, over there. Just being a good son, you know? Good brother for my sister-in-law. And take care of my son, you know?

Man

As to count one, second-degree murder, the victim being Diego Davian, how do you plead to that charge? No contest.

Lawyer

No contest. Do you understand the court will treat your no-contest plea as if it was a guilty plea? Yes.

Judge

Thank you. I accept the plea from Mr. Gamez. That concludes this hearing.

Indistinct chatter

Lawyer

Detective, do you know an individual by the name of Jarad Nava? Yes. And do you see him in this courtroom?

Detective

Yes. He's to the counsel's right. He's wearing a nice light blue shirt with stripes.

Different lawyer

The witness has identified defendant Jarad Nava.

First lawyer

Have you had prior contacts with defendant Nava? Yes. And is that defendant Nava in that photograph?

Detective

Yes. Do you recognize the tattoo that is shown here? Yes. If you look near the web of the hand, you'll see that this is a D and then this is a C, for DC. Is it your opinion that that tattoo indicates membership in DCK? Yes. The primary activities of DCK, what are some of those? Loitering or looking out, simple possession of narcotics, assaults with a deadly weapon, robberies, car thefts, attempted murders, and witness intimidation. Thank you, Your Honor. No further questions at this time.

Camacho

OK. Cross-examination?

Hoover

Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon, detective. Good afternoon. You said that you had encountered Mr. Nava prior to this incident. Yes. And you discovered there wasn't really anything going on, right? No, that's not true. Um... are there other DCK members that have the little DC tattoos on their hands? I believe so. OK. Um... If there are two rival gangs that claim the same territory, wouldn't that start a war? Exactly. I have no further questions.

Prosecuting attorney

No redirect, Your Honor.

Camacho

All right. Thank you, sir. You completed your testimony. You may step down. All right, People, you may call your next witness.

Prosecuting attorney

Did defendant Nava appear to be under the influence of any drug? No, he did not. What type of call was it? A victim of a shooting. What did you notice? I recovered a.38-caliber revolver.

Camacho

Cross-examination? No questions.

Prosecuting attorney

Detective, showing you People's 39a.

Man

The bullet struck that area right there. -Any recross on those points? -No questions. People's 14c. Down here at the bottom, we have a element known as the primer.

Camacho

Cross-examination on these points? No questions.

Prosecuting attorney

Are we on 23, Your Honor?

Camacho

Correct, 23. It's commonly known as a sawed-off shotgun. It's black in color with a wood stock. Any objections to any or all of these exhibits? No. All right. I rise, frankly, a bit conflicted on the bill. I recognize teenagers are different. The psychologists tell us that; the courts tell us that. Hell, any of us who've been teenagers or had them know they're different. But there are other people involved here as well. The victims who've been promised that the perpetrators will be locked away. That said, though, the kids are different. And just locking them up and throwing away the key does trouble me.

Jarad

If they tell me I'm never gonna get out again, I don't know what I'm gonna do, 'cause it's, like, there's nothing to look forward to, there's no hope, so, just, I don't know. Like, just to be honest with myself, like, I honestly don't know. Like, if they tell me, like, a ridiculous amount of time, I don't know what I'm gonna do, because, like, what's the point?

Pen and paper are placed on table

Man

"I am sorry for what happened. "I hope you could forgive me. "I know it's not gonna be easy because of what happened, "but I hope that everything gets better "and you heal quickly, 100 percent. "I'm also sorry to your family for the incident, "and all the heartache I may have caused. Jarad Nava."

Mother

The school called me. Said you weren't there.

Boy

Mom, it's not a big deal. Donde estabas? Were you with your brother?

Man as Ernesto

No. Wait a minute. Are you high? No. Mom, stop it...

Gabe

When he came to set, he was super skinny. He was obviously on drugs. Whose idea was this? He was clearly dealing drugs, offering pot to the lead actor, offering pot to me. OK, let's back up. So, the idea is that you turn to grab one of the cookies or something, you knock it off, and you go down and get it, and that's when Mom... -We're rolling. -OK, so let's just do that. -Roll it. -Speed.

Different man

Scene 24-Charlie. Take five. Action.

Mother

How was school? You scared the

bleep

Mother

out of me. Como te fue?

Boy

It was cool. It was fine.

Mother

Were you hanging out with your brother?

Boy

No. Are you high?! No, I--I'm fine.

Mother

Chris, stop lying to me. -Mom-- -Chris. it was my time, my--my first time. It's not a big deal. -You wanna be a

bleep

Mother

-up? -He's not a

bleep

Mother

-up. Yes, he is a

bleep

Mother

-up.

Bleep

Chris

you.

Mother

Get out. That's fine.

Bleep

Mother

. Gabe,

voice-over

Seeing him on set broke my heart.

Gabe

OK, let's cut. It broke my heart.

Man

OK, let's cut.

Camacho

All right, well, in terms of sentencing, as to count one, it's the judgment of the court that Mr. Nava be imprisoned for the terms prescribed by law. The otherwise 7 years to life imprisonment now becomes 15 years to life imprisonment. The defendant must serve an additional 25 years to life. These are gun use enhancements, which the court can neither stay nor strike, not that I would do either if I had the authority. So the total for count one only is 40 years to life. Likewise, the total for count two remains at 40 years to life imprisonment. The court's running these terms consecutive. Technically, I have the authority to run it concurrent. The court is not going to do that. Count three is identical. It's 40 years to life. Count four is 40 years to life. Now, the aggregate is 160 years to life imprisonment. OK, then, uh, then I have to remand Mr. Nava in the custody of the sheriff forthwith, to be transported to the Department of Corrections. All right. Let's focus on Mr. Sandoval. In the matter of Mr. Alex Sandoval, he has those two cases before the court...

Sobbing softly

Cigarette lighter clicking

Bleep

Camacho

.

Woman speaking Spanish

Camacho

Let's see. "Jarad Nava, number... Chino, California." "What's the deal, Tone? "I just touched down in the pen. They gave me 162 years to life." Jesus Christ. "How you been? "I hope the family's good, "and you keep your head up and stay up. "Work on the movie. "Those were fun times, my boy. Much love, Money Boy." I can't even... When I was still in jail and I used to talk to the homeboys, I'd be, like, "Yeah, man, it's Friday night. They're going out to party. "Hey, yeah man, drink a beer for me, you know? Pipe down a few females for me, you know?" That's kind of what I feel like I got to do now, you know? Not do some irresponsible

bleep

Camacho

but become successful for them. Like, that movie "Avatar," when they put them in those machines and they go to sleep, and they wake up and their, like, spirit or soul-- whatever's controlling these huge blue people. I feel like I got to be one of those huge blue people for them. So at night, when they dream of all the stuff they could be doing, I could be one of those huge blue people for them.

No audio

Tone sounds

Camacho

All members vote who desire to vote. All members vote who desire to vote. Close the roll. Tally the vote. The measure passes. Cut. Ha ha!

Laughter fades

Laughing

Juan

Like, with Abigail... like, she shouldn't be, like, that much, like, like that. Gotcha. I know what you mean. Cool.

Jarad

So I was thinking maybe you should be sitting by the window. Maybe we could set up the chairs right there, and she could just be sitting there, looking out the window, waiting for the car for him to come, if he's gonna come or not. Is it supposed to be more up here than it is about her, or... She feels, like, it can't be about nobody else. Like, you know this guy, you're with him all the time, so it's got to be about you. And you feel the same way.

Announcer

The conversation about children PBS Your Home for Independent Film