Frederica Freyberg:

I'm Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here and Now,” court action today related to the state’s juvenile correctional facilities, Lincoln Hills and Copper Lake. After that, how Wisconsin will respond to the White House request for state voter information. It’s July 7. Do you know where your state budget is? We’ll have some capitol insight. And a closer look at the labor shortage in Wisconsin caused by foreign workers who cannot get visas. It’s “Here and Now” for July 7.

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Frederica Freyberg:

A first look at the ongoing legal trouble for the state’s juvenile corrections facilities in Irma. Today was the deadline a federal judge in Madison set for the two sides in a lawsuit over conditions at the state juvenile detention facility to submit a plan for how to substantially change how inmates are treated there. He ruled two weeks ago that the use of solitary confinement and pepper spray at Lincoln Hills and Copper Lake Schools are likely violations of inmates’ constitutional protections.

Prison guard:

Final opportunity to comply and put your hand in.

Frederica Freyberg:

As part of the court case, the ACLU of Milwaukee filed two videotapes from inside the institution with the court on Thursday. They show inmates being sprayed repeatedly with pepper spray. The judge ordered attorneys to craft a plan that reduces solitary confinement, narrowly defines when pepper spray can be used and ordered shackles can only be used on inmates for safety purposes. Two other lawsuits have been filed and the prison is under federal criminal investigation for prisoner abuse and child neglect. More in our first look tonight. The president wants states to hand over voting records in an effort to ferret out fraud that could undermine the integrity of the federal elections process. The Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity wants registration records, including names, addresses, dates of birth, political party, last four digits of social security numbers, voting history and more. A number of states have said they will not comply. What will Wisconsin do? For that answer, we turn to Reid Magney of the Wisconsin Elections Commission. Thanks for being here.

Reid Magney:

You’re welcome.

Frederica Freyberg:

As to that question, what will Wisconsin do?

Reid Magney:

Under Wisconsin law there are some things in a voter record that are public: your name, your address and the list of elections that you voted in. But that’s really all. I mean, if you’re a military or overseas voter, that might be part of it. But things like your date of birth, your driver license number, the last four digits of your social security number are all confidential and we never give those out.

Frederica Freyberg:

Not even to the president.

Reid Magney:

That's not permitted. We can give them to law enforcement, but this commission doesn’t qualify as law enforcement.

Frederica Freyberg:

So just to be clear, those things from Wisconsin will not be submitted to this commission.

Reid Magney:

We're not permitted to give that out under state law.

Frederica Freyberg:

But you will give out all that is public under Wisconsin law.

Reid Magney:

Well, they can buy the list from us if they want. Wisconsin, in Wisconsin, we charge for that information. It helps pay for the system, lessens the burden on taxpayers. The cost of that list is $12,500. So we are going to respond to them and say here’s how you can get the list. Give us your credit card if you want it.

Frederica Freyberg:

Have you gotten any response to that? Because I know that that was put out there before, that that was Wisconsin's response, that you can buy it if you want it.

Reid Magney:

We haven’t had any interaction with them. We just got the letter from them on Wednesday. It went to the Secretary of State’s office instead of the Wisconsin Elections Commission. And we’re working on a response. We should have one next week.

Frederica Freyberg:

But you think that’s what it’s going to be.

Reid Magney:

Oh, yes. Absolutely. We’re going to let them know that if they want the list, they need to buy it.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, what do you say about concerns that the information submitted to this commission will be used to lay the groundwork for voter suppression?

Reid Magney:

One of the things that we’ve learned about using the list is that you need a lot of detailed information, like things like dates of birth and social security numbers and driver license numbers, to be able to do list matching. I think people are afraid that this list will be matched against other lists. The list in its current form with a person’s name, address and voting history may not — you don’t get much out of having that other than a list of here are the names of people who are registered. But in terms of matching it with things in other states or other databases, it may not be of much use.

Frederica Freyberg:

Have you ever seen a request like this from the federal government?

Reid Magney:

No.

Frederica Freyberg:

And what do you make of it?

Reid Magney:

I think that they’re looking for information. They’re trying to put together some sort of — something to be able to look at the nation’s voters, you know. It’s not really our job to look at the motivation. That’s one of the things in Wisconsin's public records law. You don’t look at the motivation for a request. If you can fulfill it, you do. And in this case, we can, but if they pay.

Frederica Freyberg:

As for concerns about the integrity of the elections process having to do with fraud or impersonation, how concerned are we about that in Wisconsin?

Reid Magney:

Voter impersonation is extremely rare in Wisconsin. It was before the voter id law went into effect and it continues to be very small now. It is not — it’s not a major concern.

Frederica Freyberg:

There was suggestion at recent Washington hearings that Russian hackers targeted voter registration records in the 2016 elections. Did that happen, to your knowledge, in Wisconsin?

Reid Magney:

Not at all. It happened in Illinois and it happened in Arizona. And there were some separate attempts to infiltrate a vendor who works in Florida and some other states. We don’t do business with that vendor. Most of the voter list maintenance is really done by clerks and state workers. We don’t have vendors who do that work for us.

Frederica Freyberg:

So Russian hackers didn’t get into our election process.

Reid Magney:

No, they did not.

Frederica Freyberg:

And did you ever in your wildest imagination think that you would be talking about Russian hackers?

Reid Magney:

I did not.

Frederica Freyberg:

And we — you believe, again, though, that Wisconsin kind of was impervious to any of that because of the way we’re set up so decentralized?

Reid Magney:

Yes. You’re right. We have a very decentralized system in Wisconsin, the most decentralized in the country. We have 1,852 municipal clerks who maintain the local lists in a system that is set up by the state. And we have detected no problems.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Well, we’ll be looking for the letter that comes out of your office to this commission in coming days.

Reid Magney:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Reid Magney, thanks a lot.

Frederica Freyberg:

For weeks, some big ticket items in Washington and Wisconsin have appeared stuck in neutral, failing to get traction to move ahead. In tonight’s capitol insight, why majority Republicans seem stalled on issues of health care at the national level and the state budget here at home. UW-Milwaukee professor and former legislator Mordecai Lee joins us from Milwaukee for tonight’s capital insight. Thanks a lot for being here.

Mordecai Lee:

Thank you, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

Well, we can say that Governor Walker reached out late this week with what seemed to be a compromise to try to bring his party’s factions together over transportation funding in the budget. In fact, we want to show you what he wanted to do. In a letter to the Assembly speaker and the Senate majority leader, the governor proposed reducing transportation bonding by $200 million, approving contingency bonding linked to additional federal funding for southeast mega projects, while maintaining his position of no gas tax or fee increases. So, Mordecai, in your mind has the governor put this into drive to get over the impasse?

Mordecai Lee:

Well, certainly the governor wants this resolved, because when you’re the governor, you ultimately get blamed for everything. You know, a kid in Waukesha stubs his toe and it’s the governor’s fault. Here we’ve got a situation, we’re going into the second week of July and there still is no budget. And the day that the legislature passes the budget is not the day we have a budget. A governor needs about a week or two to read it, to decide on line item vetoes. We’re looking at now late July, and I think he would sort of lose face. The guy who wants to run for re-election, that he’s been a good governor. He just doesn’t want to let it go that long.

Frederica Freyberg:

It seems like this is how it’s supposed to work, pulling disparate sides together through some kind of a compromise.

Mordecai Lee:

I guess in this new era of ideological politics, the concept of compromise isn’t what it used to be. I spent my time in locked rooms with my adversaries. And after we yelled and screamed at each other, somebody would say, “There’s got to be a number in between where you are and where they are. Why don’t we go to that number.” The problem with that old dynamic of political compromise is when you’ve got somebody who draws a line, not in the sand, but a line in drying concrete and says, “Absolutely, positively no increase in the gas tax or the registration fee,” now all of a sudden the concept of a compromise sort of falls apart. Because what is the logical compromise? The logical compromise is less bonding and a little bit more taxes. But just like you can’t be a little bit pregnant, you can’t have a little bit more taxes. If you violate a pledge on increasing taxes, that’s viewed as a violation. So I think what’s really going on in the capitol building is an argument over what it means to be a conservative. The new conservatives are saying, “Never, ever an increase in taxes.” And I guess you’d call them old-fashioned conservatives are saying, “We have to be fiscally responsible. We can’t keep going into debt.” And so I think from a point of view of just the power of ideas, this is fascinating to watch.

Frederica Freyberg:

Does this budget episode over transportation funding suggest some muscle-flexing on the part of Assembly Speaker Vos, you know, kind of going his way?

Mordecai Lee:

I really think you’re on to something, Frederica, in the sense that I think what we’re seeing is sort of what James Madison, who is named after our state capitol, what James Madison intended when he helped draft the Constitution. In other words, that regardless of what he called faction — that was the word for parties in those days. Regardless of faction, that there would be separate but equal arms of government. That the legislature would have a perspective different from the executive and that that kind of clash of perspectives would be healthy. In other words, we’re the opposite of a parliamentary democracy, where a prime minister by definition has the majority in the parliament. So I think this is the way it’s supposed to work. Speaker Vos is seeing the world slightly differently from the majority leader of the Senate and from the governor and that’s to be expected. That’s in a sense the American system working the way it’s supposed to, even though they’re all Republicans.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let's get to the wheel-spinning on the national level over health care. Does this suggest just how complicated all the moving parts are to such a law or is it more about philosophy on the part of Senate Republicans who apparently cannot agree?

Mordecai Lee:

Frederica, I think the correct answer is all of the above. In other words, health care is difficult to reform because there are lots of dials. And anytime you touch one dial, it cascades around to the other areas. And the ideological differences in terms of maintain the ban on pre-existing conditions or not, that’s a philosophical issue. How much do we change Obamacare so we can claim we repealed it? This is politics and ideology and practicality and plain old public policy all bollixed up. I don’t see right now that we should view any kind of political failure going on in the Senate. These things take time. Legislative bodies take time.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We need to leave it there. Thank you very much for your insight.

Mordecai Lee:

You're welcome.

Frederica Freyberg:

In tonight’s closer look, scrambling to find summer help. A shortage of foreign worker visas leaves Wisconsin tourist attractions coming up short when it comes to finding seasonal employees. For more on this, we are joined by the CEO of the Wisconsin Hotel and Lodging Association, Trish Pugal. She joins us by phone. Trisha, thanks a lot for doing so.

Trish Pugal:

My pleasure.

Frederica Freyberg:

Well, so describe what the situation is for seasonal employers trying to find enough help this summer.

Trish Pugal:

Well, I think the challenges are just being able to fill all the positions and the shifts, competing with other industries who are also facing shortages and hiring challenges.

Frederica Freyberg:

So which sector is hardest hit?

Trish Pugal:

Within the lodging industry, the service positions seem to be primarily due to vacancies. But it really also has an impact on management because they are responsible for finding the solutions, filling the roles and many times jumping into pinch hit.

Frederica Freyberg:

So how bad is it? I mean, how would the customer see this shortage?

Trish Pugal:

Hopefully it would be seamless and they would not see anything. The whole role of management is to try to, again, solve the issues of shortages and make sure that the delivery of an excellent experience is still right on target.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what kind of economic impact does this have?

Trish Pugal:

Well, it’s really pretty early to tell for this summer because, again, hopefully the different lodging property owners and managers are trying to find their solutions and making the experience great and it hopefully will not show up with a dramatic economic impact.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why is this happening?

Trish Pugal:

I think it’s a combination of things, everything from the unemployment being very low for all positions. We seem to also see less students that are looking for summer employment or that are looking for limited hours or short seasons, et cetera, which has an impact. There is some areas that have a population density issue, where they just don’t have the population base to be able to serve all the tourists coming in. You’ve got the job hopping. And you’ve got the fact that tourism is pretty strong right now.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, I understand that Homeland Security will offer extra visas above the 66,000 nationwide cap that they have, but not until possibly late July. How much will that help?

Trish Pugal:

Well, unfortunately, it wouldn’t do much for this season. However, it’s an excellent, positive step that they are considering how that could help in the future. So it perhaps would be mostly for next year. And that is the H-2B visas, which are just one of the visas that are considered.

Frederica Freyberg:

So are some employers making use of other kinds of visas to fill their needs?

Trish Pugal:

In our industry, definitely. The J-1 visas, which are more of a cultural exchange program, where there is some educational components involved. That’s strongly used in some of the areas with the populations, the cities I had mentioned before, such as the Dells, Door County, et cetera, where, again, the residential base doesn’t support all the positions that are needing to be filled.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, your organization I understand has set up a task force to deal with this problem. What will that task force look at in terms of solutions?

Trish Pugal:

Well, what we’re trying to do is, for one thing, to make sure that individuals are aware that our industry is quite what you could call a ladder industry, where you can climb up the career ladder pretty quickly and the opportunities are strong, whether it’s unique hours to work, whether it’s having different talents and changing, moving your way up the ladder. There’s so many opportunities, and so we’re kind of hoping to be able to get the word out about that. We’re also going to create a guide for the existing resources on both recruitment and retention and try and come up with some creative ideas. And we’re going to be looking at linkage with educational institutions as well. It’s a broad — a lot of goals, and we’re just getting started.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, some might wonder if employers could attract these workers with higher pay or perks.

Trish Pugal:

Well, I think what you’d find in our industry is that wages are already rising. It’s basic, the laws of supply and demand for economics. And it is something that’s already happening, and will continue based on the supply and demand for economics. And it is something that is already happening and will continue based on the supply and demand. And as far as performance as well. Also, we do end up being a little creative sometimes with perks that are offered, depending on the type of property it is, whether it’s some meals that are included or flexible hours. There are a lot of different options that are tapped, depending on, again, the size of the property, the type of the property, where it’s located, et cetera.

Frederica Freyberg:

Okay. Well, good luck with this, even as this season unfolds this summer. Trish Pugal, thanks very much.

Trish Pugal:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Just before we interviewed U.S. Senator Ron Johnson a week ago on this program, we received an email from a viewer in Appleton. She wanted us to ask the senator his position on how any new health care bill would treat people with pre-existing conditions. And whether he wants to allow refusal of coverage or higher rates. Jennifer Edmondson wrote us that she is a six-year breast cancer survivor and says because of it her insurance premiums went through the roof until the ACA became law, when she was able to purchase affordable health care insurance. She joins us now from Appleton and thanks very much for doing so.

Jennifer Edmondson:

Thank you for inviting me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Just to remind our viewers, we asked Senator Johnson last week if he thinks any bill should include protections for pre-existing conditions. Here’s what he said.

Jennifer Edmondson:

I think our country has decided we want to protect people with pre-existing conditions, but we can do it in a manner that doesn’t collapse these individual markets and doesn’t unfairly put the cost burden on a very small slice of the American population. Wisconsin’s high risk pool isn’t perfect, but it worked pretty well. So we should take a look at those best practice examples and that’s the path toward guaranteeing people coverage with pre-existing districts without collapsing markets and without causing premiums to skyrocket.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now Jennifer did you feel like he answered your questions about what’s going to happen to people like you?

Jennifer Edmondson:

No, not at all. I found that his response was disappointing and he left out a number of details that I think if people knew about them, they’d be shocked.

Frederica Freyberg:

Like what?

Jennifer Edmondson:

Well, three things come to mind. First is the topic of high-risk pools. Senator Johnson commented that he thought the Wisconsin high-risk pool that existed before the ACA, I think he said it worked pretty well. What he didn’t tell us is that when the high-risk pool was in effect, 500,000, that’s half a million Wisconsinites, were put into that high-risk pool. However, their premiums were so high they were not able to afford those premiums and so they remained uninsured. And during that program, only 20,000 Wisconsinites actually were covered through the high-risk pool. The third thing that I think is most shocking is that in 2010, the Wisconsin high-risk pool program operated at a loss of $17 million. And the subsequent year, 2011, it operated at a loss of $7 million. So we’re looking at a loss of $24 million over a two-year time period. I think that people would be shocked if they knew that.

Frederica Freyberg:

So —

Jennifer Edmondson:

Also, —

Frederica Freyberg:

I was just going to say, so it concerns you, the idea that going back to that kind of high-risk pool insurance plan that we had in Wisconsin. But I want to just interject and say he did say that our country has decided to protect people with pre-existing conditions. So does that give you some solace, that he acknowledges that?

Jennifer Edmondson:

No, because what I think we’ve learned over time is that words — the words are not ringing true. Pre-existing conditions, everyone is affected by that. Either they themselves have a pre-existing condition or their loved one does. In the United States there are 52 million people under the age of 65 who have pre-existing conditions for which they would not have qualified for any insurance or coverage prior to the ACA coming into effect.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now —

Jennifer Edmondson:

And those — an example of pre-existing —

Frederica Freyberg:

Yeah. Go ahead.

Jennifer Edmondson:

An example of pre-existing conditions can be acne, diabetes, heart conditions and in my case breast cancer.

Frederica Freyberg:

Before the ACA, but after your diagnosis with breast cancer, what were your insurance rates like?

Jennifer Edmondson:

I took a look at my records, and for the three years after my diagnosis — my diagnosis of breast cancer was in 2011. And it was breast cancer that had metastasized and spread into my lymph nodes under my left arm. For the three years after my diagnosis, our health insurance premiums increased by over 50% and my husband and I are small business owners, so we have always paid 100% of our insurance premiums in the individual market.

Frederica Freyberg:

On the ACA —

Jennifer Edmondson:

But then after —

Frederica Freyberg:

Yeah.

Jennifer Edmondson:

And through the ACA plan now, our insurance premiums are substantially more affordable and we also have a lower deductible.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, what is it like at this point not knowing what to expect going forward?

Jennifer Edmondson:

Well, I imagine it’s frightening. It’s frightening to me, but I imagine it’s also frightening to other people, especially the 52 million people who have pre-existing conditions in this country. They don’t know if they’re going to be covered. We hear our leaders say, “Don’t worry. We’re not going to harm you.” And yet their actions are speaking louder than their words. They’re meeting in secrecy. They’re concocting some kind of plan. They’re trying to jam it down our throats without any public hearing and without any public disclosure.

Frederica Freyberg:

Is this political for you?

Jennifer Edmondson:

Frederica, access to affordable health care transcends politics for me. The Republicans are playing a political game with the lives of Americans. But this is not a game for me and for Americans. This is life and death.

Frederica Freyberg:

What message, briefly, do you have for the crafters of any repeal and replace bills?

Jennifer Edmondson:

Well, Donald Trump called the Republicans’ plan mean, and I'd like to add to that. And what I would add is that this plan, this plan is inhumane, it’s un-American and it’s contrary to any religious or spiritual belief on this planet. And there are five things I would ask that our elected officials please, please do and that’s this: stop playing political games with Americans' lives. Stop lying to us. Start working in a truly bipartisan fashion. Hold public hearings instead of cooking up harmful plans in secret and trying to jam them down our throats. And finally, please perform your sworn duties to the American public to ensure domestic tranquility and to promote the general welfare.

Frederica Freyberg:

Jennifer Edmondson from Appleton, we leave it there.

Jennifer Edmondson:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now for more state news and funding for higher education. The UW Board of Regents voted 16-1 Thursday to approve the system’s $6.2 billion budget for 2017-18. The spending plan divvies up state aid to the campuses differently than in the past, giving UW-Madison a smaller share. Instead of its usual 38% share which works out to about $9.4 million, Madison will see just under $3 million. Regents say the other UW campuses need the money more. The budget also keeps undergraduate resident tuition flat, but raises student fees and housing costs at the system’s four-year schools. And that is our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

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Funding for “Here and Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.