Frederica Freyberg:

Proposed legislation called the Protecting Women in Sports Act is being introduced in Wisconsin. Republican lawmakers in statehouses across the nation are looking to pass similar legislation. The aim? To prevent transgender athletes from participating in girls’ and women’s sports because their biological sex is male and represents unfair competition according to supporters of such bills. The proposal’s author, Republican Representative Barbara Dittrich of Oconomowoc was scheduled to join us to tonight but had to cancel at the last moment. Dittrich’s plan would add Wisconsin to a growing list of states that are pursuing such laws as part of a coordinated effort to push back on recent gains in protections for transgender individuals. That’s according to a joint statement from two Wisconsin LGBTQ advocacy groups. Megin McDonell is the executive director of Fair Wisconsin, an advocacy group working for the cause of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender equality. She’s in Madison. Thanks for joining us.

Megin McDonell:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

The governor has said he will veto this legislation if passed. But as Representative Dittrich works to gather cosponsors for her Protecting Women in Sports Act, Governor Evers sent a message to transgender students saying they are welcome, wanted and they belong. What message do you think this kind of proposed legislation sends?

Megin McDonell:

Well, unfortunately, the one thing that this legislation does do is send an incredibly negative message to transgender youth in Wisconsin that they’re not valued, they’re not welcome and they don’t belong. And so we, you know, very much applaud the governor for taking a vocal position like that to send that message of welcome and support to our youth. So that’s very appreciated.

Frederica Freyberg:

The particulars of the legislation include banning transgender athletes from participating in girls and women’s supports from kindergarten through college. The CDC data says under 2% of high school students identify as transgender and the WIAA tells us they have had no complaints concerning transgender athletes. What is then going on with this proposal?

Megin McDonell:

Well, you know, I can’t really speculate as to their motivation. I know that Representative Dittrich mentioned that she had heard from constituents but I can also say that there is a very well-organized, concerted effort around the country to promote these bills. There’s something like — I don’t have the numbers right in front of me, but something like 45 athlete bans in about 20 different states right now and there’s over 100 anti-LGBTQ bills in general. I do think that a lot of the gains we’ve made as a community and as a movement evidenced by things like the progress the Equality Act is making, the very vocal and visible support that President Biden made on day one through some of his executive orders is probably one of the — at least some of the factors that contribute to this flood of anti-LGBTQ and anti-transgender actions that’s we’re seeing around the country.

Frederica Freyberg:

And specific to the one here in Wisconsin, the other thing that it would do is create three types of teams: boys, girls and co-ed, allowing transgender athletes to go into that co-ed squad. Is that discrimination in your mind in itself?

Megin McDonell:

Yeah. I mean, it does — you know, here’s the thing. Transgender kids want the opportunity to play sports for the same reason as other kids do, to be part of a team where they feel like they belong. And this does essentially discriminate against those kids. It means that there will be a girls’ team and a boys’ team and then a team for transgender kids. And we just want to help people understand that trans girls are girls. Trans boys are boys. And when we do things to limit participation of trans girls in particular in girls’ sports, we are really hurting all girls in sports and athletics.

Frederica Freyberg:

Since 2013 the WIAA has required that male students transitioning to female must have one calendar year of medically-documented testosterone suppression treatment to be eligible to play on a female team. What do you think of that requirement?

Megin McDonell:

Well, so that requirement, you know, right, has been in place for quite a while, and it really does make it — already that policy makes it pretty difficult for trans girls in particular to be able to participate in girls’ athletics and sports. So it has that effect of excluding. And not all kids have the — have access to various medical interventions that that policy requires. But even when they do have access to that, whether or not they choose those interventions, they are taking place under the care of a physician. So that’s another thing about these bills, is that the WIAA policy really already makes it pretty difficult for trans kids to fully participate in organized sports in their schools. So really at the end of the day all this bill really accomplishes is sending that negative message of exclusion to our youth.

Frederica Freyberg:

Title IX protects people from discrimination based on sex in education programs including sports. Representative Dittrich says that Title IX “protects all biological females from being required to compete against biological males.” Is that what Title IX says?

Megin McDonell:

Title IX’s been a cornerstone of advancing those opportunities for women and girls. I think we all agree that it’s important to defend and preserve the impact of Title IX but the good news is that ensuring freedom and opportunities for LGBTQ youth, especially transgender youth, doesn’t undermine those protections. Like we should remember what Title IX is all about, making sure that all girls, including girls who are transgender, have the opportunity to participate in sports. And kids learn a lot of important life lessons in supports: leadership, confidence, self-respect, what it means to be part of a team. So local schools around the country, there are about a dozen states that have positive, proactive policies that help trans kids participate in sports. Minnesota, for example, our neighboring state. And those policies are working. So we can celebrate girls’ sports and protect trans youth from discrimination and make sure all students have the ability to access these lessons and opportunities and the lifelong benefits that organized athletics can provide to young people.

Frederica Freyberg:

We started by talking about messages. What is your message to transgender youth in the midst of all of this?

Megin McDonell:

Well, the governor said it really well in his tweet, that we all — we’re happy to see and echo that. And I mean I’m just here today. I care deeply about the health and well-being of the young people in general. I have two teenagers myself. One is trans teenager in high school. Bills like these are just really harmful. They don’t achieve what their goals are supposedly achieving. And, again, the one thing that is clear that they do do is send those negative, harmful messages to youth that already have a really, often difficult time in the schools. So, you know, you’re loved, you’re welcome and we see you and we’re here for you and also we are obviously going to be doing a lot of organizing in the weeks and months to come around these bills. Also positive efforts that we’re advancing with our friends and allies in the Legislature and with our other organizations, like G-SAFE and the Wisconsin Trans Health Coalition, Diverse & Resilient, many of our other colleagues around the state. We’re going to be working very hard to make sure that youth aren’t — we can hopefully minimize the negative impact of these bills on our youth and make some advances.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Well, thank you. We appreciate it. Thanks very much, Megin McDonell.

Megin McDonell:

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.