Frederica Freyberg:
A closer look tonight at election security in Wisconsin. According to a new report from the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism being released this weekend, there are vulnerabilities in our voting systems. Managing editor at the WCIJ Dee Hall is here to explain. Dee, thanks for being here.

Dee Hall:
Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:
Given Russian hacking and what we’re told are continuing threats to our election integrity, the idea that Wisconsin has these vulnerabilities obviously strikes concern. Should it?

Dee Hall:
Sure. Well I would put Wisconsin in a national context, which is most voting systems have some of these same vulnerabilities because of the way that we’ve carried out our elections over time on a local basis. And also that according to the Elections Commission that they’re ahead of the curve when it comes to implementing certain security measures to protect the election.

Frederica Freyberg:
As I understand it from your reporting, there are several points of potential security weaknesses and I can run down these and we can talk about them. There’s the hardware and software contractors. There’s service providers, USB devices or like memory sticks that are used. Modems in voting machines and then cell technology to transmit unofficial election results. Let’s talk first about contractors who are either doing hardware or software or even just servicing machines.

Dee Hall:
These are private companies that come in for large and small counties alike and municipalities and help them program for the upcoming election. They do the software updating. The problem there is that these folks, we don’t know what their security procedures are. How tight are their policies and so that’s where the vulnerability comes in. There was a case in Florida with a contractor who was servicing many of the counties there who was in fact breached through one of these phishing – as they call them – schemes.

Frederica Freyberg:
One of the service providers in Wisconsin, according to your reporting, does 46 counties and 3,000 pieces of equipment. This is pretty substantial.

Dee Hall:
So that’s a small private contractor but we can’t find out which counties they’re serving, which municipalities. You know, they don’t have to disclose that information and the Wisconsin Elections Commission doesn’t keep track of these folks. So we don’t know really how solid are their security procedures? And again the idea is not so much that these particular companies are evil or bad. It’s just that there are people who are looking at them as a potential back door into our election system.

Frederica Freyberg:
What’s the deal with USB devices or memory sticks?

Dee Hall:
Those are devices as you know that you plug into the computer. And one of the things that Wisconsin has going for it and most election systems have, are these computers that not connected to the internet. But as soon as you take a USB stick from something that was connected to the internet to that air-gapped machine, that breaches the air gap according to the experts we talked to. By the way, this story, which is by Grigor Atanesian, our Russian Fulbright scholar, is based on interviews with seven cybersecurity exports. People who actually have been consulting with the Department of Homeland Security, for example, and Europol, the European law enforcement agency.

Frederica Freyberg:
That reporting also talked about modems in voting machines.

Dee Hall:
Some of the machines transmit their unofficial election night returns with modems. Modems of course are — in this case what they’re used for is one-way calls to call into the county clerk’s office to give the results. The problem there is that these modems can once again connect the machines to the internet and during that time frame there could be a breach.

Frederica Freyberg:
Also the cellular technology to transmit unofficial election results. Why does that matter? They’re unofficial.

Dee Hall:
That’s the other issue there. You might say, “Well, these are unofficial, it doesn’t matter.” But one aspect of what the Russians have been trying to do is really create doubt and confusion in our election system. And if you have election night results which are unofficial that are radically different from the final results, it might raise suspicions which are essentially unwarranted but that may play into their hands just as much as actually tampering with the election.

Frederica Freyberg:
What do our state election officials say about all this?

Dee Hall:
They say they are ahead of the curve. As I mentioned, there’s a report that just came out. The National Academy of Sciences talked about a variety of things that can be done. The state has done many of them. There is one that they’re looking at, something called a risk limiting audit, which is a post-election audit. Scientifically-based where you can figure out are there any anomalies. They’re going to talk about whether to do that. That requires a lot of work on the part of the clerks across the state. And so it’ll be probably something that’ll be discussed. And I don’t know if they’ll pass it but it is something they’re looking at seriously.

Frederica Freyberg:
Because I know that was one of the recommendations from Grigor’s earlier reporting that was something that Wisconsin really needed.

Dee Hall:
Right. There’s a group called Wisconsin Election Integrity. It’s a grassroots organization of folks. That is their main recommendation. One of their main recommendations is for the state to really require these post-election audits. This particular kind so you can figure out whether, in fact, the results are the same. You know, after the unofficial results are actually the official results. And luckily Wisconsin has paper ballots backing up every single one of its votes. So that’s an area where we are ahead of some other states in which some of them have electronic machines with no paper trail. And that is definitely dangerous. That’s one area where we are ahead.

Frederica Freyberg:
Dee Hall. Thanks very much.

Dee Hall:
Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:
The economy and jobs are perennial election issues. That makes the timing of the Center on Wisconsin Strategy’s new report all the more relevant. It’s called “The State of Working Wisconsin.” It contains good news and bad news. For example, while it cites lower unemployment rates in Wisconsin, overall job growth is slow when compared to the national rate. Economist Laura Dresser is the Associate Director of the center. Laura, thanks for being here.

Laura Dresser:
Thanks for having me.