Washington Week with The Atlantic

Good evening and welcome to the Washington Week Extra. I'm Yamiche Alcindor one year ago this past Monday on August 15th, 2021 Taliban forces entered Afghanistan in the capital of Kabul. The we should say the Afghan capital of Kabul. The takeover is followed by a two week scrambled by the US to evacuate thousands of Americans and even more Afghans who supported American efforts in the 20 years of war. During the frantic withdrawal, a bombing killed at least 170, Afghan civilians and 13, US seven service members and the deaths and chaos led to criticism of President Biden from Democrats and Republicans. In the wake President Biden's approval ratings. They took a hit, and a year later, he is still plagued by low ratings. In the meantime, the United Nations says Afghanistan is in the grips of one of the world's worst humanitarian crises, and the Taliban has banned girls from attending school. Beyond the sixth grade. The group has also ordered women to cover up from head to toe in burkas. Joining me to discuss the consequences of the U. S withdrawal from Afghanistan are Peter Baker, chief White House correspondent for The New York Times. And here at the table. Eugene Daniels, White House correspondent and co author of Political Playbook, and Susan Page, Washington Bureau chief for USA Today. Thank you all for being here, Peter. I'm going to start with you. It's a year later. It seems in some ways surreal that it's been already a year, but a year later from this withdrawal President Biden is still in some ways trying to recover from from what happened during that frantic time. What are you hearing from your sources about how President Biden views this anniversary and how the White House sees this Well, I think that they're obviously been Where e of this anniversary coming up for a long time. As you rightly point out. It was a bad moment for not just Afghanistan and the people of Afghanistan but obviously for President Biden and his administration. He gave the impression of somebody who wasn't able to manage things in a competent way after he had promised that that was going to be his strong point as a new president. So I think that that this is something they have been wearing for a while they advantage they have is having just, uh, you know, launched the operation that killed a man. Always. That theory, of course, was the head of Al Qaeda. And they argument is they show that they don't need a large troop presence on the ground in order to go after somebody who is as dangerous as I hear he was and that they could take him out from the air with a drone without having to have the kind of 20 year war that we've been having with ground troops. The flip side, of course, is that that shows the Taliban was once again. Willing to harbor People like Zawahiri and people who otherwise have America's, you know as a target, and I think that there is a concern that we see a year later that Afghanistan looks today. Not that different than it did on September 10th 2001 before the attacks that caused the United States to go in the first place that they are, in fact repressing their own people that they are, in fact, particularly repressing girls and women. That they are, in fact, haven potentially for people who have America as a target, So I think that that's a you know, it's it's It's not, You know, a moment. The president Biden is interested in celebrating. They are arguing that they made the right decision and they don't I think many Americans are happy to be out of Afghanistan. That's the argument they're gonna take into the fall. And Peter, I should just ask you a quick follow up. I was gonna ask you about sort of the the killing of that leader of Al Qaeda. Are you hearing from sources about how What are you hearing from sources about how concerned people are that there could be terrorism and terrorists, um, having safe havens in Afghanistan now? Yeah, look at my colleagues that are good story the other day about the intelligence assessment, suggesting that Al Qaeda has not reconstituted itself in Afghanistan in a fulsome way, But it's a big place with very loose governance, even under the best of circumstances, and what you can see, there is the potential for groups like Al Qaeda, if not Al Qaeda itself. To find havens. You know where they're able to operate without without detection or without, you know, strong counter moves by the United States, which is still struggling to create this over the horizon. Was they call it strategy? You know where they can still project power without being on the ground, So I think there's a lot of concern about where Afghanistan is heading and whether we're going to be Ah, Finding ourselves, you know, focused once again on Afghanistan is a place that proposes a threat to the United States or not, and Susan, you told our producers, the Boche withdraw of Afghanistan was one of the most serious mistakes in terms of political impact of the entire Biden presidency. Talk a bit more about why you see this as such a serious misstep. I think it is the most devastating moment politically for the Biden White House because he had been elected on a promise of being very experienced on for And policy from his record as being vice president. Being. U S senator for so long on the Foreign Relations Committee, and he instituted a policy that people supported. Americans thought it was time for the war in Afghanistan to be over, Donald Trump proposed ending the war and off war in Afghanistan. But the withdrawal the operation look so incompetent. It was at such odds with the promise of competence and skill that he had. He had campaigned on, and it left Americans feeling like this 20 Year War, America's longest war. Let we left people behind who had stood up with us. We paid a terrible cost in terms of lives and treasure. And for what? Hmm. And for what is Kia things out to think about and something that frankly, a lot of Americans were asking last year. And now this year, Eugene Jump in here. I went to recently. That political, of course, your outlet, um reported, they said for Joe Biden. The anniversary also marks the moment his presidency started to spiral out of control. Political rights, a spiral from which He still hasn't completely recovered. So what? Have you seen your reporting and talk a bit more about politicals findings here. I mean, when you look at his polling, right, he, um before Afghanistan, they have passed the recovery act, you know, giving people checks and shots and arms. The infrastructure package had been passed. And so when Afghanistan happened, they were on a high this administration and they pull out and immediately start to see that people said just like Susan just said that he looks incompetent. This is a man who promised us that things weren't going to fill. Chaotic. And there was nothing more chaotic than watching planes take off and people falling out of the wheels on that On one of those first days when Americans were leaving that country, and the thing that has happened for this administration, looking back on this anniversary this week, no one to really talked about it, right. We're talking about it now, but because of Donald Trump and kind of the cloud, but he put over the political world, they kind of dodged a bullet when it comes to the conversation, But it does not mean that that is not a part of his legacy. What is Left there now the dire straits that people are that Peter laid out in that country right now, that isn't going anywhere and part of that people are going to always feel had to do with how Joe Biden, um, pulled the country out and we were just talking when you asked him. Is this going to be like the fall of Saigon during the Vietnam War? And he said no, and it looked exactly like that. And so it seemed like they didn't. They didn't plan for it, and they didn't plan for what the Taliban was going to do after. Um, but they are this week and the week before they have been saying, you know, we we've proven that we can do what we need to do By not being there. The American people are behind us. And, frankly, when it comes to foreign policy if American lives are not on the line, Americans typically don't care that much about it. And and Peter. It was a striking thing that followed President Biden for a long time when he told me in a press conference that this was not going to look like Vietnam. I wonder if you could put it in context here because, as Susan rightly points out, it was President Trump. Who made the promise to leave Afghanistan. It was President Biden who decided to keep that promise. Um, where? How does this fall? Do you think when you think about other presidents and the wars that America has fought? Yeah, I mean, it's it's It's right up there. I think Susan and Eugene had this right. I think that you know, when you write the history of the Biden presidency, that will be a very dark chapter. And there are two questions. Right Was the policy right in the first place? Was it right to get out and that was something that President Trump had agreed on with the Taliban. He negotiated this agreement with the Taliban and President Biden then carried it out. Then there's the question of how you carried it out. And, you know, you hear that President Trump former President Trump and his people say, Oh, my gosh, how terrible. It was without mentioning, of course, that they were the ones who wanted to do the exact same thing, And it's very likely to have resulted in the same kind of outcome of the Taliban once again taking control and the and the and the you know the country once again, falling into a dark period of repression and and and and tyranny. Ah, um, but it's also has the lingering effects. I think on the presidency of President Biden as well because for all the reasons we, you know, Susan, you just talked about it made him look like he didn't know what he was doing and then extended. I think the other things. So when he didn't get the legislation he wanted to get through Congress like voting rights. Like like a stronger gun bill, like originally the bill back Better act, which is supposed to be far more expansive than what he eventually got. It looked like he didn't know what he was doing, or he couldn't manage to accomplish. What he said he was going to accomplish. The last few weeks have been good for them. They now begin to sort of purge that a little bit, But it's taken a huge toll on his presidency over the last year, and it may it may take a little while longer to recover from that if he ever can, and Peter, Of course, we have to talk about the humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan and women who are now being restricted from going to school from what they can wear. Um, what do you make of sort of what's been left in Afghanistan? Well, I think that's exactly right. You know, it's important to remember that the people of Afghanistan we're told it's okay. Now you're free. Now We're there for you. You can come out and take your burqas off. If your women you can go to school, you can have jobs. You can participate society and this is not going to be like it used to be. And now it's right back to the way it used to be. For all the promises the Taliban made of being a new, more advanced, less more moderate, less extreme version of themselves. They seem to be pretty close to the same version that they were before. And so our question is always going to become what is our responsibility. There is our responsibility to to to continue to stay there in order to fulfill the dream that we helped inculcate among Afghans, or, you know is really their issue that they have to deal with. A lot of Americans would say That's their problem. At this point. It's not really ours. And I think that's the real tension point in that decision, even aside from the way it was carried out Whether it was you know whether we have let them down and lived up to the promises that we had made or whether, in fact, it's time for us to say, Okay, we did everything we could. It's time for them to take over and Susan last question to you Talk about what the women are facing in Afghanistan. What the people of Afghanistan are facing and what responsibility to take it from. From Peter here here, What responsibility is the U. S have to that so that that moment of hope when, when? When you saw women and girls have opportunities in Afghanistan that they had that they had never had, and that has now been pretty much extinguished. Now there's a that a dilemma in even you know, the people in Afghanistan are in pretty dire straits, even in terms of having adequate food to eat. A dilemma on whether you you offer a defeat People who are hungry or do do you worry that offering that aid bolsters regime that you find an acceptable um, so we're left with we loved with just a world of hurt and hard choices when it comes to Afghanistan, But politically speaking, there is no appetite in the United States for getting back in Afghanistan in a big way. Rebuilding Afghanistan. I mean, these are there is a sense that that we did not achieve what we said we were going to achieve. But we put in 20 years there, and it's going to be a long time before Americans are willing to invest. I think again in Afghanistan in a big way. That's right. And I think a world of hurt and hard choices is apt way to put it will have to leave it there. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Yamiche Alcindor. Goodnight from Washington.