Frederica Freyberg:
The safety of Wisconsin schoolchildren is under the magnifying glass after "The Capital Times" reported on more than 200 teachers accused of sexual misconduct or grooming of students since 2018. That included teachers who were able to reapply for a teaching license according to the reporting. In response come proposals for new laws and better and more transparent tracking of teacher licensing, including the reasons for revocation. Republican State Senator Jesse James is author of a new bill that would make grooming a felony and include prison time. He joins us now. And, Senator, thanks very much for being here.

State Sen. Jesse James:
Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:
So one of the things that your bill does is set a definition for grooming, and I'm just gonna read it. It is, quote, "a course of misconduct, pattern of behavior, or series of acts intended to conditions, seduce, or entice a child for the purpose of sexual activity or exploitation." How does that definition help to investigate, charge, and remove educators who are predators?

State Sen. Jesse James:
Well, I think, you know, [sighs] the efforts on this legislation for my office started well beyond, or well before, I should say, this story came out with DPI and the sexual misconduct of the educators in our state for the series of years that they were investigating. I actually had a Zoom in August with an organization out of Florida that was working on this across our nation, defining grooming. And then further conversation took place just a short few weeks ago with colleagues within the Chippewa Falls Police Department. They shared in a specific case with me. So that's when the efforts really started, and then this story comes out. So I think the irony involved, because this isn't just with educators. This isn't about just educators. It could be law enforcement. It could be doctors. It could be just general citizens within our communities. So I think this story breaking out just intensifies and actually brings forth the true need of this grooming statutory language to be included in our statutes. I think the sensitive crimes that I have investigated as a law enforcement officer, having these additional tools and mechanisms available for charging is extremely valuable. And with the amount of times that each grooming act is defined, you could have a person that is charged with multiple felonies with just the grooming statute alone. And I think when we get to the courts in the charging of these cases, I think more is better. It brings more negotiation. It brings more potential compromise to not drag these cases out to a 12-person jury trial. It brings on more plea agreements and having these people realize that you're guilty. I mean, I've had a pretty successful career as a sensitive crimes investigator back in the day, and this was never available, but I can specifically think of cases where it's totally applicable because there seems to be grooming in every single type of child sexual assault case.

Frederica Freyberg:
Indeed, what does grooming look like in practice?

State Sen. Jesse James:
Oh my, you know, it could be as simple as being a young lady, for example, and you have a law enforcement officer, somebody in a position of trust that busts an underage drinking party, and the officer says, "Well, no, I'll give you a ride home to your parents' house." And things happen. It could be where a individual will literally pick up a young lady after school and take her out to eat, out to buy a new pair of shoes, out shopping, getting her her own private cell phone. It could be... Goodness, it could be just, you know, the teachers in the classroom with coming up and having inappropriate touches, the rubbing of the shoulders, you know, massaging-type things, the text messaging that, you know, simply saying, "Well, you look really nice today," and, you know, flattering comments and stuff, stuff that would not be normal where if I had my daughter in high school, and I look at her phone, and I see a text message like that, it would definitely raise concern.

Frederica Freyberg:
Why has it taken so long for someone to write a bill that would turn into law in the state of Wisconsin on this?

State Sen. Jesse James:
That is a awesome question. I think the traditional ways of grooming are being more like upscaled with the amount of technology that's available, the apps that are out there, the stars or hearts or whatever it looks like on technology. I'm not a technology guy by any means, but there's ways that these individuals are targeting our youth, grooming them even online, and giving them the gifts or whatever, how they do it on these apps. And I think that's why it's becoming more and more prevalent, and we're seeing these true cases. Even me as a part-time officer in the last month, I've had cases like this where I've been introduced to these new apps that I didn't even know what they were before. So trying to keep up with technology today, I think that is one of the challenges. In the amount of grooming that's going on through technology, I think it's really intensified, and it's dramatically increased. And I think we need to try and stay up with the times. You can definitely... I always try to think of it as a 12-person jury. If a reasonable person could conclude that this is weird, not normal behavior, it is actually misconduct by a reasonable person's conclusion, I think that's gonna help define the grooming element when it goes to a jury trial. It's just taken us time to get caught up, and I wish I would've thought about this when I first came into office because I was a sensitive crimes investigator, and I didn't think about it. I'm just gonna be honest with you. I didn't think about it until more recently with the sexual extortion that's been taking place, everything, I mean, with Bradyn Bohn and D.C. Everest High School there, that young man. There was grooming that was taking place. In a matter of six hours, the young man died by suicide. So, I think that's the whole part of it, is the intensifying increase that we're seeing in these types of cases and the impact that it's having on our children. We need to address it.

Frederica Freyberg:
Do you think given the gravity of this, the state will throw its weight behind this and funding to tightening up not just like a statute around grooming, but having to do with revocations of educators' licenses and, you know, making that process more transparent?

State Sen. Jesse James:
Well, I think people that are in positions of trust, obviously, if law enforcement officers did this, if doctors did this, if nurses did this, if teachers do this, I think their license should be taken. They should be terminated immediately. I think there will be strong support for this. The governor has already expressed his support for this. And I think that having this extra tool available for specific crime of grooming is gonna be highly beneficial for any type of case to help hopefully deviate or have these individuals that like to prey on our children think twice about it.

Frederica Freyberg:
Knowing what you know and what you do and have done in your career, should every parent be worried that their children could be groomed and become victims of abuse?

State Sen. Jesse James:
I would agree with that. This could happen to anybody. And it just simply, it depends on the state of mind, how educated your children are, how involved you are in your child's life because the technology... Like with my daughter, we let her have a cell phone at a younger age, and the technology that's out there, we had a cell phone contract with her. So her phone was subjected to inspection at any time. And you know, when kids do foolish things, adults do foolish things. And when it is so readily available today, the temptations that exist, I think that we need to do everything possible to protect our children that are vulnerable at times. And they think that this is the wave of the future. The amount of images that I have seen that are not appropriate for anyone to have... Anybody under the age of 18, you know, it's considered child pornography, and we need to get more education out there. We need to get our families educated. We need to get our youth educated as far as what's safe, what's not safe. And that kind of coincides with Erin's Law when we have that education available in our schools K through 12 to have some type of education for personal body and security education and truly giving our kids a voice to say, "Ooh, I feel uncomfortable. This doesn't feel right." They should be able to have discussions with whatever situation, whether it's with law enforcement, their doctors, the teachers, church personnel, any volunteers they work with. This goes across, every organization in America has been impacted by some type of sexual misconduct. And I say that not that it encompasses a lot of things, but it could up to include, you know, sexual assault of a child and stuff like that. But even the minimum sexual misconduct, I think people need to be held accountable at a higher standard in society, especially those adults that prey on our children.

Frederica Freyberg:
And this bill soon to be law, apparently, will help with that. Senator Jesse James, thanks very much.

State Sen. Jesse James:
Thank you very much. I appreciate the conversation today.