PBS News Hour

GEOFF BENNETT: Former President Donald Trump has for several days now spread lies and spouted conspiracy theories about the federal government's response to Hurricane Helene, disinformation that's causing real-time confusion among some of those most desperate for help and answers.

We're joined now by Juliette Kayyem, former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security.

Her latest piece in "The Atlantic" is titled "The Fog Of Disaster Is Getting Worse."

Thank you for being with us.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, Former U.S. Department of Homeland Security Assistant Secretary: Thanks for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: As you note in the piece, the spread of rumors and misinformation has always been a problem during major disasters, especially when the usual channels of communication break down.

But what's the real-world harm inflicted by lies and conspiracy theories about the hurricane relief effort?

JULIETTE KAYYEM: Well, there's a couple of direct impacts.

The first is how the government works and functions.

It needs the support of communities and populations.

If there's distrust, rumors, all sorts of rampant lies being spread, in particular by the former President Trump, it makes the work of government more difficult.

The second is sort of the driving of resources.

In normal disaster management,a lot of what the government finds out comes from local sources, a mayor, a local newspaper, a citizen saying, look, this is here, or we have a problem there.

And they drive resources that way.

If there's a lot of noise in the system, not just sort of disinformation, someone gets something wrong, but actual misinformation, it actually impedes the ability to move resources.

Finally, I have talked to people in FEMA.

The concern or the animus towards the government that's being bred and spun up by so many right now is causing some of them to have to be deployed in pairs.

So that just basically means that you're wasting resources on safety and security issues that don't normally exist in a crisis, when people generally do come together.

GEOFF BENNETT: Donald Trump's claims have focused on undermining confidence in the federal response and trying to tie that to his political opponent, Kamala Harris.

So here's a sampling of some of the false things that he said in recent days.

DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: Kamala spent all her FEMA money, billions of dollars, on housing for illegal migrants, many of whom should not be in our country.

(BOOING) DONALD TRUMP: They're offering them $750 to people whose homes have been washed away.

(BOOING) DONALD TRUMP: And yet we send tens of billions of dollars to foreign countries that most people have never heard of.

GEOFF BENNETT: So here's the fact-check.

There is zero basis for claiming that FEMA disaster money is being diverted to undocumented immigrants.

And the $750 he mentioned is merely the immediate up-front aid that survivors can get to cover basic supplies in the days after disaster hits.

You mentioned that you know a lot of people at FEMA.

There's this other false notion, this conspiracy theory that the federal government is trying to swoop in and buy up land from people?

Tell me more about that and how it's resonating.

JULIETTE KAYYEM: That's exactly right.

So there's there's all of these rumors that basically undermine trust.

And that is so essential in a crisis,trust not just in your government, but trust in your other citizens, that people will come together.

And so all of these lies breed distrust amongst ethnic groups or racial groups or red states and blue states.

That's been a rumor that -- or that's been a lie that Trump has been pushing that resources aren't going to red states.

One very harmful lie that is being spread is that the government -- this is the opportunity for the government to take your house.

Well, that is actually not true.

FEMA cannot take your house.

They can pay you and urge you to be bought out, so that you don't build your home in the same place.

It's a long process.

It doesn't happen overnight.

But you can imagine people worrying about, well, my home is going to be taken away.

They believe these lies.

And then what do they do?

They don't evacuate, as we have a new hurricane, a deadly hurricane coming to Florida right now.

The idea that people are going to stay put because of a lie that the government is going to take their home if they leave it is going to cost lives.

And this is why it's not just, oh, these are lies being spread around.

They have direct impact on the life and health and safety of millions of people either impacted by Helene or all of these hurricanes that are coming through now.

GEOFF BENNETT: And as a sign of the times, FEMA now has part of its Web site devoted to dispelling rumors.

What do you make of the federal government's efforts to combat misinformation and disinformation?

JULIETTE KAYYEM: I mean, it's much better than it has been before.

I think there used to be a belief, well, no one's going to, no one's going to actually believe this.

We now know that these lies, they fill the vacuum that has been created by platforms like X that sort of contribute to the misinformation, political leadership like Donald Trump that then amplify it.

And then remember a communications network in particular in Helene that's essentially down.

It is hard for people to get online.

It is hard for them to get those media resources that they used to have.

So there's just all sorts of rumors at this stage.

So FEMA has taken a step.

I commend Republican governors and mayors that are pushing back against a narrative that is being asserted by Donald Trump as part of his election campaign.

It's obscene at this stage, but we're just going to see more of it.

GEOFF BENNETT: And lastly, Juliette, you write in your piece that emergency managers regularly urge people to stockpile 72 hours' worth of food and water, but Americans should also be planning their disaster media diet with similar care.

What does that look like, a disaster media diet?

JULIETTE KAYYEM: This is where, no offense to us, national media matters less, that you want to talk -- you want to follow local emergency managers, local media, radio, whether people who are in the community and are telling you what to do, and then, of course, to take -- to listen to what is being asked of you.

So, the evacuations are not done casually.

The kinds of evacuations we're seeing in Florida right now are serious.

There's a lot of weighting going into them.

But this is where people before the disaster, much like that they would retain 72 hours of water or food, really think about, well, how am I going to get my resources and my information in real time?

And you can build for that now, even before the disaster.

GEOFF BENNETT: Juliette Kayyem, thanks so much for sharing your insights with us.

We appreciate it.

JULIETTE KAYYEM: Thank you.