FREDERICA FREYBERG:
SYSTEM PRESIDENT RAY CROSS SAYS HE IS THANKFUL THE BUDGET CUTS WERE TRIMMED BY $50 MILLION, BUT IN THE MIDST OF THE WRANGLING OVER THE STATE BUDGET AS IT AFFECTS THE UW, ONE UW-MILWAUKEE PROFESSOR CHALLENGED CROSS TO RESIGN IF HE COULDN’T SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCE THE CUTS AND REINSTATE TENURE AND SHARED GOVERNANCE. AT THE TIME, CROSS PLEDGED HE WOULD IF HE COULDN’T LIVE UP TO THE CHALLENGE. ASKED THIS WEEK IF HE WILL RESIGN, HE SAID NO. HE FEELS HE HAS MET THE CONDITIONS SET OUT. THAT UW-MILWAUKEE PROFESSOR, RICHARD GRUSIN, JOINS US NOW. PROFESSOR GRUSIN, SORRY. THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

RICHARD GRUSIN:
THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
SO WHAT IS YOUR REACTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT RAY CROSS MET YOUR CONDITIONS?

RICHARD GRUSIN:
WELL, I THINK THAT HE MET NONE OF THE CONDITIONS, ALTHOUGH I BELIEVE HE THINKS HE MET ALL OF THEM. TO DESCRIBE THE CUT AS A $50 MILLION REDUCTION IS A LITTLE BIT MISLEADING. I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DESCRIBE IT AS IS A $250 MILLION CUT. AND THAT’S NOT A $50 MILLION REDUCTION. AND SO WERE THEY REDUCED? YES. BUT THE JOURNAL SENTINEL SAID THAT THE JFC PARED THE CUTS. ANOTHER HEADLINE SAID THEY WERE TRIMMED. THIS IS NOT A SUBSTANTIAL REDUCTION. ON THE QUESTIONS OF TENURE AND SHARED GOVERNANCE, WHILE, YES, WE STILL HAVE THINGS IN PLACE THAT ARE CALLED TENURE AND CALLED SHARED GOVERNANCE, WHAT SHARED GOVERNANCE AND TENURE ACTUALLY STAND FOR IS NOT GOING TO CONTINUE IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN. SO THAT SHARED GOVERNANCE, WHICH MEANS THAT FACULTY, STAFF AND STUDENTS WORK WITH ADMINISTRATORS IN ORDER TO MAKE IMPORTANT DECISIONS ABOUT CURRICULUM, PEDAGOGY, HIRING, SO FORTH NOW HAS BEEN CHANGED SO THAT THOSE DECISIONS ARE SEEN AS SUBORDINATE TO AND ADVISORY TO THE CHANCELLOR. SO IT’S NOT SHARED GOVERNANCE ANY LONGER. THE SECOND PART IS TENURE. SO THE REPUBLICANS HAVE COMPLAINED THAT WISCONSIN IS THE ONLY SYSTEM IN THE COUNTRY, THE ONLY STATE IN THE COUNTRY, WHERE TENURE IS PART OF STATE LAW. SO THEY REMOVED THAT BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THAT WAS AN INAPPROPRIATE SORT OF EXCEPTION FOR WISCONSIN TO HAVE. BUT THEN THEY IMMEDIATELY PUT BACK INTO STATE LAW PROVISIONS TO ALLOW TENURED FACULTY TO BE FIRED FOR ALL SORTS OF REASONS, DETERMINED REALLY BY CHANCELLOR AND THE BOARD OF REGENTS, SO THAT ONE’S CURIOUS WHY IT’S OKAY TO HAVE — BE THE ONLY STATE IN THE NATION THAT HAS THE GUIDELINES FOR FIRING TENURED FACULTY IN STATE LAW, BUT NOT BE THE ONLY STATE IN THE NATION TO HAVE TENURE IN STATE LAW.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
SO WHAT ARE THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THOSE CHANGES IN TENURE?

RICHARD GRUSIN:
RAMIFICATIONS REMAIN TO BE SEEN, BUT I THINK WHAT IS LIKELY TO HAPPEN IS THAT WHAT ARE NOW BEING CALLED BY THE — IN A REPORT BY THE WISCONSIN WPRI CALLED CEO CHANCELLORS WILL NOW BE ABLE TO DETERMINE ON THEIR OWN WHAT PROGRAMS THEIR UNIVERSITIES SHOULD INVEST IN AND EVEN WHAT PROGRAMS SHOULD BE CONTINUED.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
NOW, WE HEAR TELL THAT KIND OF TOP FLIGHT PROFESSORS ARE ALREADY GETTING OFFERS.

RICHARD GRUSIN:
I’M SURE THAT THAT’S HAPPENING. I’VE BEEN CONTACTED MYSELF, INVITED TO APPLY TO A PRESTIGIOUS POSITION, WHICH I PROBABLY WON’T AT THIS POINT DO. BUT UNDOUBTEDLY PEOPLE WILL LEAVE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WHAT WILL THAT DO?

RICHARD GRUSIN:
IT’S NOT CLEAR. I THINK THERE’S TALK ABOUT MASS EXODUS. I DON’T THINK THERE WILL BE A MASS EXODUS BECAUSE HIGHER EDUCATION HAS BEEN SO DRAMATICALLY CUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT THERE’S AN OVER-SUPPLY OF HIGHLY-QUALIFIED FACULTY. MADISON HAS AN EXCELLENT FACULTY FOR EXAMPLE IN ENGLISH, MY DISCIPLINE, BUT THERE ARE MANY OTHER EXCELLENT FACULTY WHO ARE PREPARED TO TAKE THEIR PLACE. SO THE CONSEQUENCES ARE LESS BEEN LOSING GOOD PEOPLE BECAUSE WE HAVE AN OVERSUPPLY OF GOOD PEOPLE. THE CONSEQUENCES ARE ABOUT LOSING CONTROL OF THE CURRICULUM AND HAVING STUDENTS GET AN EDUCATION THAT’S SUBJECT TO THE WHIMS OF POLITICS AND SO FORTH.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
AS THE DUST SETTLES ON THIS AS THE PROCESS TAKES PLACE WITH THE BUDGET, AT WHAT POINT DO PROFESSORS WORK WITH THE UW ADMINISTRATION?

RICHARD GRUSIN:
WELL, WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO WORK WITH THEM, BUT I THINK THE REAL QUESTION IS AT WHAT POINT DO WE START WORKING AGAINST THE UW ADMINISTRATION AND HOW WE MIGHT DO THAT. SO THERE’S BEEN JUST INFORMAL CONVERSATION AMONG SOME PEOPLE THAT IF SHARED GOVERNANCE IS IN FACT NO LONGER MEANINGFUL IN THE STATE, WHY SHOULD FACULTY CONTINUE TO DO THE LABOR OF SHARED GOVERNANCE THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN TO MAKE THE UNIVERSITY RUN. SO I THINK THE QUESTION IS NOT SO MUCH WHEN WE WILL START WORKING WITH THEM. WE HAVE TO WORK WITH THEM ALL THE TIME IN THAT WE’RE SUBJECT TO THEIR AUTHORITY. BUT I THINK THE MORE INTERESTING QUESTION IS WHEN FACULTY MIGHT ACTUALLY START TO RESIST IN A MORE ROBUST FASHION THAN HAS HAPPENED SO FAR.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WE’LL BE WATCHING. PROFESSOR RICHARD GRUSIN, THANKS VERY MUCH.

RICHARD GRUSIN:
THANK YOU.