Frederica Freyberg:

Opponents of the move to revise the U.S. Constitution to add a balanced budget amendment say it could lead to a runaway train of revisions to the most hallowed document of the American government. Jay Heck is executive director of Common Cause in Wisconsin. He joins us with his position on this. Thanks for being here.

Jay Heck:

Great to see you again, Fred, thanks.

Frederica Freyberg:

As to your concern about this resulting in a runaway train of these kinds of revisions to the Constitution, the plan approved in the Assembly, and in other states would limit the purpose, though, to this balanced budget amendment, so why isn’t that iron clad?

Jay Heck:

You know, we have had one constitutional convention in the history of the country, 1787. They gathered in Philadelphia. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin. These were the people that laid the foundation for the country and for the Constitution. They violated the rules of the Articles of Confederation when they gathered in Philadelphia. The article said that all of the states, all 13 colonies had to agree to the Constitution. And when Rhode Island refused to do so, they changed the rules. They said, “Well, ok, maybe three-quarters of the colonies have to agree.” 9 of 13. There’s nothing to prevent once you assemble a constitution convention, from changing even the rules that states like Wisconsin have made going into it. That’s the reason why we have not used this method to amend the constitution since 1787. Every other time we’ve gone through the process by which two-thirds of each house of Congress, three-quarters of the legislature approve it. And look, the Republicans control both Houses of Congress. They control the presidency. They control most of the state legislatures. An overwhelming majority in Wisconsin. If they want a balanced budget amendment, put one forward and let’s have a vote on it.

Frederica Freyberg:

As to the Constitution being opened up this way to revisions and new amendments, what kinds of revisions do you envision and are you concerned about?

Jay Heck:

Well, there’s no telling. I mean, that’s the problem. Because there are no rules stipulated anywhere, which govern such a convention. Some people have suggested this would be a great opportunity to do, to go beyond a balanced budget amendment and take a look, and maybe revisit the 18-year-old vote. You know, that was actually the last constitutional amendment of any substance that was enacted, that was in 1971. Maybe there’s a feeling now amongst conservatives that 18-year-olds are too young to vote. What’s — while we going to do the balanced budget amendment, let’s change that. Hey, let’s revisit a woman’s right to vote. Prohibition was a good idea in 1918, wasn’t it? Let’s have prohibition.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do you really believe that, though?

Jay Heck:

I don’t know what they would do. The problem is that it has not been done since 1787. And I certainly respect Kathy Bernier and Robin Voss and Chris Kananga and all the others that are putting forth these ideas but they’re not George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton. Those are the people that had a convention and I don’t think we ought to mess with the product they concocted.

Frederica Freyberg:

As for a balanced budget amendment how concerning is that to you on its face?

Jay Heck:

It's concerning in the sense that again, if you — it’s a dodge, for one thing. If you want to balance the budget, put forth a balanced budget and stipulate how you are going to, what you are going to cut in government. They can’t even do that in Wisconsin. They’re trying right now to come up with resolutions to funding for schools, K-12, and for roads. And Governor Walker wants to put it on the credit card. The Assembly wants to raise revenues. So, if you want a balanced budget, first of all, you have to, I think, lay out what that balanced budget would look like. Secondly, there’s no question that in times of economic recession, 2009, for instance, an infusion of money on the part of the federal government into the economy, protected the country from plunging into a depression. That couldn’t happen under a balanced budget amendment. But you know the other thing that’s most concerning is there’s no popular support for this. If you look at who registered for these measures in the Wisconsin Legislature before the public hearings, only two entities registered in favor of it. Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce, and a Republican state senator. Dozens and hundreds of people called and registered against this measure. And Representative Todd Milaca, a Republican from Dodgeville said he heard from Republicans and Democrats. They both said to him, “Don’t mess with the Constitution.”

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We'll see where it goes. Jay Heck, thanks very much.

Jay Heck:

Thank you.