Opponents of former President Donald Trump are clear in their messaging: He is a threat to democracy.

“Ours is a fight for the future — and it is a fight for freedom,” Vice President Kamala Harris said.

“Trump 2.0, would, I think, be substantially more dangerous than Trump 1.0,” said conservative commentator Charlie Sykes.

“He’s told us that he wants to be a dictator on day one,” Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police officer Daniel Patrick Hodges said.

But Republicans disagree.

“I don’t believe he’s a threat to democracy,” said Pastor Lorenzo Sewell

“That was not his original statement that was made by the Democrats,” Madison-based real estate developer Terrence Wall said.

“I want him to be a dictator,” said Republican activist Linda Walters.

Harris, the presumptive nominee as the Democratic candidate for President, talked about the perceived threat in her July 23 visit to Milwaukee.

“Do we wanna live in a country of freedom, compassion and rule of law? Or a country of chaos, fear and hate?” she asked.

Fears like Trump becoming a dictator, fueled by a variety of statements and actions by the former president, including his statements during a Dec. 5, 2023 interview on Fox News.

“You would never abuse power as retribution against anybody?” asked Fox News personality Sean Hannity.

“Except for day one” Trump replied.

“Except for,” Hannity said.

“Look at him, he’s going crazy,” said Trump.

“Meaning?” asked Hannity.

“We wanna close the border, and I wanna drill, drill, drill,” Trump said.

“It’s just not language that you kind of ideally want somebody to use, said Julia Azari, a professor of political science at Marquette University. “What he’s sort of saying is, even for a day, we’re going to eliminate the kind of guardrails — and other takes and perspectives.”

“My response is, are you that dumb? I mean, how can you be that gullible and believe what the media and pundits are making up, literally about him — stories,” said Walters, a Florida resident who visited Milwaukee for the Republican National Convention. “For one day, I want him to be like every other — just like Biden was on the first day, all the executive orders that he put in place to ruin this country.”

Walters, like many Republicans, say Democrats are blowing Trump’s comments out of proportion, or taking him out of context.

“I don’t believe everything that people say. The Bible says a foolish man believes everything he hears. I would be curious to have that conversation with him in terms of what he meant. What’s the context of those comments?,” said Sewell, a Republican and pastor at 180 Church in Detroit who came to Milwaukee to speak at the RNC.

“You can’t deny the power of God on this man’s life, you can’t deny that God protected him,” Sewell said in his July 18 speech at the convention.

“There have been a lot of threats to democracy. I don’t believe he’s one of those,” he said in an interview in Milwaukee.

“Our evaluation of the evidence and our evaluation of how this has played out in other contexts has led us to be pretty, pretty alarmed,” said Azari, who pointed out Trump’s rhetoric has already led to violence in the past, on January 6, 2021.

“And we fight, we fight like hell. And if you don’t fight like hell you’re not going to have a country anymore.” said Trump during his rally at the Ellipse in Washington, D.C before the insurrection in the U.S. Capitol.

“He has encouraged and continues to encourage political violence. Not only does he encourage, he supports it. He endorses it. He condones it,” said former U.S. Capitol Police officer Harry Dunn.

“It’s up to us, the people, to make sure that he doesn’t get that chance,” added Hodges.

Dunn and Hodges were on duty in the U.S. Capitol during the insurrection. They came to Madison in May to campaign for President Joe Biden, and both said they were attacked by the angry mob.

“I’d call January 6th a dry run, except it wasn’t. It was a real attempt,” Hodges said.

“The people that were there told us they were there because Donald Trump sent them. That’s not my opinion. Those were their words as they were attacking officers,” Dunn said.

Thirteen Wisconsinites have been indicted for their role in the insurrection, while federal prosecutors continue to work through cases.

“Especially when it comes to giving up power — leaving office — that seems to be a, you know, a real sticking point,” Azari said.

Those fears have been inflamed by Project 2025, the sweeping proposal by ultra-conservative allies to Trump that would radically change the federal government.

Project 2025 includes proposals to: restrict abortion nationwide, allow for discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, use the FBI to go after political enemies, suspend immigrants due process and proceed with mass deportations, eliminate the U.S. Department of Education, end all environmental protections, and the list goes on.

“On day one, I will sign a new executive order to cut federal funding of any school, pushing critical race theory, transgender insanity, and other inappropriate racial, sexual, or political content onto the lives of our children,” Trump said at a June 18 rally in Racine.

“It just takes a much more radical — an ideological — direction, and consolidates that presidential power,” Azari observed.

Trump has tried to distance himself from Project 2025 in recent weeks, saying on social media, “I know nothing about Project 2025, I have no idea who is behind it.”

But over 200 people affiliated with his campaign were also involved in the creation of Project 2025.

“I think Donald Trump manifestly poses a threat to the American political system, and I don’t think that’s theoretical any longer,” said Sykes, an author and former host of a popular Milwaukee conservative talk radio show. “He tried to overturn a fair and free election. He incited a mob to attack the Capitol.”

Sykes said he voted with Republicans for more than 20 years, but broke with the party in 2016 after Trump secured the nomination.

“Donald Trump has said that his next presidency would be a presidency of retribution. He’s openly talked about using the power of the federal government to go after and punish his opponents,” said Sykes.

“It’s sort of hard to escape that he’s had this sort of impact on the tone of politics,” said Azari.

“It’s very unlikely that the Republican Party in either the House or the Senate would serve as any sort of a bulwark against those kinds of extreme measures,” Sykes added.

Republicans at the RNC had a different response to the Project 2025 proposals.

“Republicans — we want to have the American dream. We want everybody to live that American dream,” said Wall, a delegate at the RNC from Wisconsin’s 2nd Congressional District.

“They project their own storyline onto others —- so they are the threat to democracy,” he said.

In fact, Wall said because of Trump’s time as a real estate developer, he’s participated in democracy more than just about anybody else.

“He’s gone through the democratic process to get projects approved — you know, dealing with neighborhood associations, planning commissions, hundreds of commissions and committees and cities, councils,” Wall said.

More recently, a jury convicted Trump of 34 felonies for falsifying business records in May.

“I don’t think that there’s any question after January 6th what he is capable of doing,” Sykes said.

“Trump has shown us who he is. He’s shown us what he stands for, and he’s shown us that he wants to be president for life,” said Hodges.

“Regardless of whether people voted for and regardless of who the president is, if they consolidate power in a certain way, that’s still anti-democratic,” Azari said.

“Hopefully we can move forward, and continue to preserve our democracy and our Constitution,” said Dunn.