Director's Cut

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>> Hey, welcome to Director's Cut. I'm Charles Monroe-Kane. That was a clip from the documentary "Haulin' Ass." Yes, a documentary about pack burro racing along mountain paths. We're joined today by the documentary's director, Trevor Velin, and by the Wisconsin competitor in the race, Roger Pedretti. Thanks you guys, for joining us today. I totally want to start with you because you've done this many times. I want to make sure people get what we're talking about here. Tell us about the burro pack racing. What is it? How does it work? You're not allowed on them, for example. >> No, you are not allowed on them. You run with the burro. The burro has to have a pack saddle with three things, a pick, a shovel and a pan. That's to commemorate the races in the small mining towns in Colorado. >> This isn't, like, some symbolic race. This is really long, right? >> It's really long. >> He says, really long. >> 29 miles. It starts at 10,000 feet, which is almost two miles of altitude. And goes up over 13,000 feet, over some tremendously rugged terrain. Not only are you taking care of yourself but, up to an 800- to 1,100-pound animal, running next to you that has wild instincts that you have to be prepared at any moment for what it might do. >> They also might stop, right? >> Absolutely. >> I can't believe you guys do that. That's fantastic. Trevor, you're the filmmaker. Did you just, like, one day, on the Internet someone said, hey man, check this out? How did you find out about this? It's a pretty obscure race. >> Yeah, you know, I had actually just finished working on a friend's documentary about noodling, which is catfishing with your bare hands, so I was kind of in the bizarre sports mentality. And I was on a road trip and I was reading a magazine, and there was a article on it. The article was hysterical. I mean, it had me in stitches. I thought, you know what, I have to see this first hand. I have to get out to Colorado and do it. So the next summer I went out with a camera and started meeting some burro racers. >> That simple. >> So simple. >> We're going to show a clip, and we're going to came back and talk more details about how this works, because I'm fascinated with it. I know you are too. We're going to end up running this. So you've got to help us out. We're going to talk more about this and how you do it when we come back. So here is a clip from the film. >> A burro race is a line in the street, a course laid out over some pretty precarious mountainous terrain. And sometimes you think the race directors are a little perverse in laying it out. >> The races vary, from my experience, a five-mile race at Idaho Springs, all the way to the 29-mile race in Fairplay. >> All runners have got to have an animal. They've got to have a lead rope, a pick, pan and shovel, and 33 pounds worth of weight on the saddle. >> You only have 15 feet of rope, and you have a big animal in front of you, and it's rocky. So you have to really think fast about where your feet are going. Most of the races are off road, cross country, rugged terrain. >> You cannot ride the animal. You can't abuse the animal. >> Comparing it to a marathon or a road race, there is no comparison. It's much harder. Most of the time, you're not on any kind of a road. >> You don't really have time to, you know, figure five steps ahead. It's two steps ahead, pretty much, and one place your foot goes down wrong and you're going to trip, or fall, or twist your ankle, or whatever. >> I don't care how careful you are, how much you know, you can get dragged, you can get stepped on. >> We've had a number of people injured over the years. We've had people that have been caught with the ropes, and pulled off their feet and dragged. >> Then they kick you, although it's hardly ever intentionally. That's another part of their bad rep. >> That seem like the worst thing I can think of. And the best thing I can think of, you were just saying that in the race last year you got two ribs broken doing the race. >> Yeah, if you lose your burro during a race, you have to go all the way back to where you lost him. And I was coming down the mountain from Mosquito Pass on my way down after I'd already gone 13 miles up, and my burro got in front of me. Generally, I make sure he stays behind me going down the mountain, but he got in front of me, and he didn't want to stop. We were in a pack of three or four burros and I hollered "Whoa," dove through the air, landed on my ribs and still hung on to the rope. Because I knew, if I let go of the rope, that burro was going all the way down the mountain and my race was over. >> And you'd have to come back. It's the last thing you wanted to do. >> Yeah. The two guys behind me stopped and said, would you like us to call the Medivac to get you off the mountain. I said, just let me lay here a minute. I got back up, assessed my body and realized I could continue running, and went on to finish the race and finished fourth. >> God, if I assessed my body after that? I'd still be caught up there. "I need therapy!" For both of you, one thing we have to talk about, I think it's very important, is this isn't just one race. This is three races, right? The Triple Crown. Explain to me the Triple Crown. >> Well, there's actually, what, six, seven burro races per year? >> It varies. >> It varies, there are three major ones that make up the Triple Crown. >> Okay. >> Leadville, Fairplay and Buena Vista are the towns that host them. They start with Fairplay every year. That's the granddaddy of them all. The world championship. It's 29 miles, that's what Roger said. And then that's followed by, sometimes they switch, either by Buena Vista, which is 13 miles, and it's a real fast course, not so much elevation. And then Leadville, where it's a 22 mile, back up the pass, just like at Fairplay. >> Awesome. Now, you were handed, as a filmmaker, a gift from the gods, right? The gods obviously love burro racing, because you were handed the most amazing Triple Crown story. You couldn't make it up. Tell us, both of you, you were there of course, what happened the year you filmed. Tell us what happened. >> Well, we hardly ever have a Triple Crown winner because it's really, really incredibly difficult to win three of those races. Because you have to have the same animal. You can't switch animals. The same person, the same team, have to win all three races. The year that Trevor filmed, actually we had a male and a female win their respective Triple Crowns. So it was a wonderful year, and there was some real drama in the races that year. He captured that. >> There was intense drama. Make sure I'm right. The same two people got first and second place the entire Triple Crown. >> All three races, yeah. >> And all three races ended exactly the same way, with almost exactly the same time, for the same reason, right? Because the one guy's burro freaked out in urban setting with all the people. >> Yeah, when there's too many people around they just don't want to run. >> Every time. You must have been, like, yes! >> As a filmmaker you couldn't ask for anything better. >> I couldn't believe it. >> I still can't believe it when I watch, because the guy that finished second was perfectly positioned each time to pass the guy that beat him, but he just... It just didn't happen. >> Was was totally ready to win. You could tell. He didn't even seem tired. His burro, you could tell, The other guy didn't even seem to care. >> You're right. You're exactly right. >> Maybe that's why he won. He didn't care. We're going to see a clip. And this is a great clip because I think this is the clip where he wins one of the legs of the Triple Crown, so people can see exactly what we're talking about. Then we'll come back and talk a little bit more about it. So this is another clip from "Haulin' Ass." >> They're neck and neck. Bobby Lewis... Bobby and Hal. Here they come.

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We've got a foot race from the longer course, folks. Here they come.

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Five hours, 32 minutes-- Five hours, 32 minutes, 54 seconds, so far. [cheering and encouragements continue] Come on! Get your hands together, folks! Help them out! Here we go!

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>> Come on!

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>> Bobby Lewis. Bobby and Hal. They're on their way!

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Neck and neck! Run it out, Hal! Run it out!

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44. The winning time... >> "That is the worst race I've ever not won." Those are wise words from a man who just ran 29 miles to get beat by a tenth of a second because his burro wouldn't move. That is unfair. I see these burros in that race, and you as well, you're working your butt off. This is, like, more than a marathon. It's really hard physical conditions, and then you lose or things get messed up because of this animal. How hard is it to train them? And also, you live in Wisconsin. Do you have a burro? >> I have my burro. He's originally trained and raised in Colorado. My brother did, raised him out there. We were able to purchase him and bring him home. You have to train as a team. There can be elite runners that go out there and say, I'm going to grab a burro and go for a race. They're not going to have a good day. You have to work together and build that teamwork. >> How tough are they sometimes? They're obstinate, right? >> Oh! A friend, one night, got to a bridge in a race, and the next morning, the burro was still at the other side of the bridge. You couldn't drag it. You couldn't get it to cross. If they decide to do something, you can't make them. >> So what do you do? Do you have tricks, do you have, like, sugar cubes in your pocket? What do you do? >> We just work and work and work, and try go back and do it over, and do it over again until... >> If I wanted to do this, and I'm not committing, and I live in Madison, but I could get some barn outside. Could I get a burro year round? Could I train? >> You get a burro and I'll make sure I come, and we'll train together. Then we'll go out to Colorado and I can get you in a race. We'll go out and do it. >> Don't bring a camera for that one. >> Trevor, every time we interview someone with a documentary it comes down to the basic thing. This isn't really about burros. This isn't even about burro racing. It's about people, right? >> Right. >> Roger here, and other people. You must have known there'd be some salty characters out there, but were you surprised at these people you interviewed. These are some of the most amazing people I've heard in a documentary in years. >> Yeah, you know, when I read that initial article, it was so funny. I thought, boy, we could really go out there and just make fun of this silly sport. But when I got out there and I saw the people were so passionate about the animals and the land and the sport, and just the history of it, that that was what was really captivating to me. Everybody has a different reason for why they're doing it. That's what's so interesting. I mean, Roger's there to celebrate his brother. Curtis is doing it because it's just been there forever. And Hal, you know, he's a great racer. He's just trying to be better at it. It's really interesting to me that everyone has a different reason for wanting to do this insane sport. >> And they're for real. No one's out there being flippant at all. I thought there would be a little bit of humor. There are some races here, like the boat race in Madison where people dress up, which is fine. But this wasn't like that. This was a serious sport. You have a story, if you don't mind sharing. You have a very different reason than I think other people race. Can you share why you race? >> I lost my brother in 2004, and we had a memorial service for him out in Colorado. I knew he was a good runner and did a lot of distance running, but I didn't know anything about pack burro racing. Well, the pack burro community is a family. They came to his service and they brought a pack burro in complete racing regalia. And even during the service, it brayed. So I said, I'm going to check this sport out. They invited me to come and participate. And I've been participating ever since. >> How many years have you done it? >> This will be my eighth year. >> I was watching you do this on the film, it's so hard. I feel dumb that I keep saying this, but it's not just like a 29-mile race. Which I also couldn't do either. But certainly all the conditions make it so difficult. >> The 29-mile race is way harder than a marathon. It's at least an ultra caliber race, and it's extremely difficult because you have the animal as well. >> Even just being on the course filming, and if you're at 13,000 feet and you're coming from sea level like us, it's impossible. I mean, I was huffing and puffing just walking around. I don't know how you could possible run that far. >> I'm not sure it's true. I don't think it's real. I just can't figure out if it's real or not! Well, we're going to show another clip from the film, but this one is a clip from Curtis. If you could just take one second and tell us a little bit about who Curtis is before we get introduced to him speaking to you. >> Curtis is a burro racer who lives out in Colorado and he has been doing it the longest of everybody who's out there now. When we filmed he was 62 years old and he had been racing every race for 36 years. Certainly one of the most eccentric people I've ever met in my life. Former actor... >> And you made the documentary "Oakley Noodling" so you totally know about eccentric people. >> Yeah, exactly. This guy is, you know, full of lines and he's hysterical and he's got a lot of wisdom in his years. He's very enjoyable to be around. >> Well, let's see him in action, and then we'll talk a little bit more. This is Curtis from "Haulin' Ass." >> Everybody has their own little, private psycho drama that they're working with, I think. For some people, it's maybe they have something to prove. For other people, it's love of the critters and the outdoors. For a lot of us, it's just that we like competition, we occasionally like to hang it out and lay it on the line. I was a Big Ten wrestler. I never thought I could find anything that was related to professional wrestling. After college, I tried with athletic clubs, and so forth. I was running along one day and a feisty bantam Hispanic American by the name of Oscar Chapa stopped me in a pickup truck. He said, "Boy, you got the legs, well, I got the ass." And he took me to the races in a homemade trailer. I just loved the true west nature of it. There's been years where I've had physical problems, where I haven't done well. There's years where I've had domestic problems, where my head's been a mess. But it's been a constant. To me, it's like doing Hamlet every year for 36 years. The play remains the same. The great language, the demands of it remain the same, but it's interpreted in a different way every year. >> It's like Hamlet. It's like Hamlet for 36 years. I'm curious, you were making this film, and you were saying that you come from 10,000 feet to 13,000, super steep. There's all this equipment, cameras, sound equipment. How did you do it? Were you on burros? Do you rent horses? >> We actually just used a couple of four-wheel drive trucks. I though of a billion ways to try and do it. You know, I wanted to ATVs but that would scare the burros. I looked into hot air balloons, but hot air balloons can't go over the mountains. I was trying to do anything I could to get up these mountains. We ended up just settling on trucks. I would bring out three to four cameras per race and the day before every race, me and the other camera operators would go tour the course, through the entire thing, driving, and position ourselves. We basically figured out a way to leap-frog each other along the course and try and get the best shots possible. >> You said it was physically difficult, right? >> It was very difficult. I mean, the drive up the mountain was incredibly treacherous. It was the scariest drive I've ever had, coming up to Mosquito Pass from the Fairplay side. I thought we were going to tumble off the side of the mountain and I was going to die. And then, just the walk up there was really tough too, because you couldn't catch your breath. >> What was it like, you had been doing this seven years now, and suddenly there's a film crew. And it sounds like a real one. You've got four cameras, you got all these people. Did people like it, did people not like it, was it exciting that this would probably turn into a film? >> Well, first of all, we give these guys a lot of credit, because they're up there, and like Trevor said, they have to climb up in those mountain passes, rugged terrain, and all that stuff. So I think mostly we just appreciated they were out there and took an interest in the sport. >> When you were interviewing people, you were like, hey, I already knew about this guy because he's from Wisconsin, you just showed up and met people and figured it out? >> Yeah, I went to the Pack Burro Association website and basically got in touch with their media relations person. She then brought me to the race at the time and I just started talking to people as they finished. I found out that Roger was from Wisconsin. It was the first thing I found out about him from talking to his mother who was waiting at the finish line. So that was, like, there's my instant connection. This is the out-of-towner. I didn't know why he was racing. I didn't know his story, but I knew that. >> You're obviously in good shape. Do you do other races? Do you do marathons and ultra marathons? >> I run races all summer. >> Are they boring? >> Well, my saying is, after you do a burro race, everything else is just running. >> That's fantastic. Do you think you could devise a more complicated or a more difficult race? Or is it also the spirit that makes it good? >> The Fairplay 29-Mile World Championship course, you can't devise a more difficult race, but the sprit is also part. It's all connected. It is one tough, challenging race. >> Other than Curtis which we've met, and obviously Roger we've met, were there other characters you look back on and you're like, this is a guy you tell people about and that you think about? Are there other people that you feel are that memorable for you? >> Yeah, I mean, obviously Hal was a big part of my film. I really enjoyed spending time with him and meeting his family, I mean, he's such a good family man. He just really is out there for the love of the sport. But yeah, I think everybody that does this is interesting, because, like I was saying earlier, everybody has a different story. There are doctors, lawyers, anything like that, but they are all united by this one thing. And the one thing is just so unusual. >> It's so eclectic that you can't help them being interesting because there's not that many people doing it. >> Not a lot. It takes a heck of a commitment too, with the animal. >> Yeah, you've got to get the animal out there. >> Training and hauling him around. Feeding him all year. >> Right, exactly. A lot of these people own the animals and it's a lot of work. >> It's crazy. Well, we're going to see another clip from the film. We'll be back to talk even more about "Haulin' Ass." This is a good one. I like this one because it explains the history of burro racing and where it comes from and how became to be what it is 36 years later. So let's see another clip from the film. >> We like to mythologize it as this unbroken chain of historical precedent that the early prospectors who would discover a nugget of gold up there in the Rockies, and they had to quickly load a sample onto the back of their burro, and then slap leather for town. They had to run there faster than anybody else so they could register their claim and own that territory. But the truth is, burro racing was really created as entertainment. Small towns in the Rockies were looking for a way to liven up their annual festivals. They created this event. Burro racing is democracy at its finest, because anybody who wants to can get into this race. And that's what you'll see. You'll see the hardcore old schoolers like Curtis Imrie and King Clover. You'll see the young studs. You'll see fantastic women, like Barb Dolan. Everybody's there. You look at that starting line and it is absurd. It makes no sense at all. You'll have guys in their 60s, and girls in their 20s, and tough tri-athletes in their 30s, all of them lined up in the same race. You may think you can judge by appearance who's going to win, and you're going to be dead wrong. >> Good, dead wrong! We weren't even talking about somebody else in this documentary which is this woman who has won the Triple Crown 11 times, right? 11 times, tell me about her. She seemed on it. She didn't even seem like she was sweating. >> Barbara Dolan. Phenomenal runner, phenomenal athlete, 11-time women's Triple Crown winner. Her talent is not only running, but it's training her burros. in fact the girl who is featured in the film that won the Triple Crown, won it with Barb's burro. So Barb is a legend in the sport, and when they have the next edition of the Hall of Fame, or the Mount Rushmore, she should be on it. >> We should arrange that. Now, Trevor has alluded, in my conversations with him, that he wants to try this. Probably not the 29 mile one. I certainly would give it a try, or at least consider it in my existence. How would we train for it? And what advice would you give us to achieve our goal? >> Well, like I said, I train, pretty much year round to go out there. I train for marathon distance running to prepare for these races. If you want to do some of the shorter races, you could train for a half-marathon distance race. Then you want to practice with an animal. You're more than welcome to come over to La Crosse on weekends and do some runs with me. >> See, Trevor? >> And I make sure that if you make a race in Colorado I will have a burro waiting for you at the start line. >> Holy mackerel. What do you think, Trevor? >> Oh, I don't know. I have a bum knee. >> Did you Oakey noodle when you were doing the Oakey Noodle thing? >> I did. I put my hand in the water and that was a trip, but again, that's one thing as opposed to running 13 to 29 miles. I don't know. >> We're working on him yet. >> For me, it's not the race. Probably for a lot of people it's not the race. I don't care about running, I could care less, but the whole allure of doing something like that seems much more romantic. It seems like running a marathon and other type races, they're not very romantic. Don't you find this to be, like, the last of the West? >> It's a family of runners, and we get together every year, I think, to re-celebrate that unity of the people, the spirit. And at the end of every race we have a banquet. We get together and eat, and we tell some stories about it and talk a little bit. And say, you know, what happened to your leg or happened to your ribs? How come you lost? You know there's always, every race is it's own adventure. >> Curtis says something along those lines, that there might be some cussin' or some fightin' along the course, but once the race is done everybody is friends. There all there to celebrate this tradition and the animals. >> So, Trevor, "Oakey Noodling" to "Haulin' Ass." So what's next? >> You know, I don't know. I've been exploring a few ideas. Maybe a little something on garden gnomes, but nothing's concrete yet. >> Garden gnomes, that's good. We'll help you out afterwards. >> I appreciate that. >> Thank you. I'm very inspired. I love your film and I'm very inspired, so it's a good combo. Thank you guys for being here today. It's awesome. And thank everyone for watching Director's Cut. For more information on "Haulin' Ass" please go our website wpt.org and click on Director's Cut. I'm your host Charles Monroe-Kane. Check the gate. So we sailed Into the sun Until we found A sea of green And we lived Beneath the waves In our yellow Submarine We all live In a yellow submarine...