Director's Cut

>> Well, we were going to start in Minnesota, travel up through Canada, between Ellesmere Island and Greenland, and then we would go down through Norway, Sweden, Finland and into Russia, to Moscow. Now provided we were successful with that part of it, we would then across Siberia and come back by way of Alaska. >> There was a lot of debate about could we actually make it all the way on snowmobiles. The idea was, let's get there and see what it looks like. >> Crazy. Hi, welcome to Director's Cut. I'm guest host Pete Schwaba, and that was a clip from the documentary "Wild Bill's Run," which tells the story of Wild Bill Cooper, a larger than life character who tried to snowmobile from Minnesota to Moscow. Yes, you heard it right, snowmobile. We're joined today by the film's producer and director, Mike Scholtz. Mike, great to have you here. >> Thank you very much for having me. >> This was a really fun movie. I mean, from the expedition they went on, to the guys that Wild Bill took with him, to actually Wild Bill. How did you find this story? How did you hear about it? >> I think there's a myth in documentary films that they can't be funny or fun. I had been looking for a project that would be, like a comedy documentary for quite a while. I'd been making short films for a long time, but this was my first feature film. A friend of mine actually did an article for Minnesota Monthly Magazine that talked about Bill Cooper, and this colorful character from, you know, just down the road from Duluth, who did all these crimes in the 1970s. He sort of blew right past the fact that he did this spectacular Arctic expedition. You know, before he became a criminal mastermind. >> Wow. I mean, what I found amazing is that, well, first of all, if I'm snowmobiling out of Minnesota in the winter, I'm not going north. But his guy, it was like he lived for it. Did these guys really think they could do that? The first thing I would think is, you're going to hit an ocean eventually, but they really thought they could do it, huh? >> I don't know how much they knew about geography. >> That's not that important. >> One of the characters explains in the film, you know, we just thought, we'll just keep going until we run into an obstacle, and then we'll find a way around it. They really didn't see any reason way they couldn't circle the globe on a snowmobile and somehow make it to Moscow. >> Well, did Bill Cooper think it could be done? They seemed like they just wanted to hang out with Bill, 'cause he was one of those guys. But did Bill Cooper think it could be done, do you think? >> I guess he did. He grew up in northern Alberta, so I think he just thought, if you grow up there and you look north, it's just white forever and ever. So I guess he must have thought he could somehow make it over ice. >> Well, I mean, what do you think? Can you snowmobile from Moscow to Minnesota? Or Minnesota to Moscow? >> No. I mean, I think there may have been ways to do it in the '70s, because it was a little bit colder then. We've had a little climate change since then. Yeah, and the bell bottoms I think, help with the ballast. >> Sure. >> But I've talked to people who've said that fact that they made it as far as they did is amazing. They traveled over areas that should not have been frozen, but were. You know, they made it to Greenland before it failed spectacularly. I think if they had gone further-- They were okay with cheating and maybe taking a ship from, like, Greenland to Norway, which is something they didn't really advertise a lot to their investors. You think, if they got that far and there was no way across, you know, we'll figure something out. >> That was a big part to leave out. All right, let's see another clip from "Wild Bill's Run." >> It was a lot of work putting this stuff together and, of course, you need a lot of cash. >> He had to talk somebody into getting this money for going on this trip. Where'd he get it? I don't know. >> Because it was pretty far out, you know. We were going to take a bunch of snowmobiles and we were going to go around the world with them. You want to be a part of it? >> I'm sure we gave them snowmobile suits and we gave them boots, and goggles. Lot of goggles. It was kind of like giving a kid a credit card in a K-Mart store. I mean, he just kind of walked up and down the aisles and said, jeez, I could use some of these. I could use some of that. Can I have some of this? Can I have some of that? >> You have the record, right? The 45? >> It's in here someplace. Here it is. Wild Bill and his scheme. >> How would you convince someone to write a song about it? >> I don't know. >> He could convince anybody of anything! Did you ever -- They left Willow River On a cold winter morn A new breed of heroes Was about to be born This seven man team On this scheme of Bill's Lead by a lot of grit And a man called Wild Bill >> It had kind of a circus atmosphere about it, taking off from Willow River. With all the people and all the stuff going on. I mean, it's a small town. >> They had an attraction. Somebody went inside of a little, wooden, makeshift coffin and blew himself up. That was the kind of things Cooper would do just to attract attention. I never could understand what was the connection between that and a snowmobile trip. But apparently it brought people there. In the back of his mind, they would buy beer and watch us leave. We're going to Moscow On a tour of good will We're going around the world On our ski mobiles >> We're talking with Mike Scholtz, the director of "Wild Bill's Run," a documentary about snowmobiling and crazy small towns. So I come to you and I say, hey, let's snowmobile from Minnesota to Moscow during the Cold War. You're going to miss a lot of work. You won't see your families. He got six guys to do this. Is everyone in that town nuts? I mean, in that last clip they're blowing stuff up. What's going on there? >> Yeah, it doesn't seem like a reasonable thing to do, but he was very persuasive. He ran the local bar, the Squirrel Cage. >> I love that name too. >> It's just a great name. In a lot of these small towns, I think the bartender is, like, he's more than the mayor. You know, I mean, he's more important than the mayor. So I think, you know, he just was that sort of charismatic guy. He made things sound fun and bigger than life. For these guys it was definitely a chance to do something extraordinary that I don't think they would have had the ability to do otherwise. >> It's so great, 'cause that is kind of-- You can't describe small towns. Not every town has a Bill Cooper, but it has their characters. They're blowing stuff up and they're-- You know, really that is where very bizarre things happen. In that clip it almost looks like you shot all this to make it look like it really happened. But this really happened. That's amazing. >> I promise you, it happened. I've had a couple of film festivals accuse me of making a mockumentary. But I promise, it all happened. >> Are all these guys still in Willow Springs, the guys that went with him on this? Was it hard to track them down? >> Yeah, actually it was a little difficult to track some of them down. One of the guys is still in a nearby town. He's a rancher. But a lot of them have kind of floated off to other places. One of them is actually the director of the Children's Theater in Milwaukee, and a lot of the other ones are retired and spend a lot of time in Arizona. I was able to make contact with the first guy, talk to him. They weren't, you know, super eager to talk about this at first. Because they're from Minnesota and old guys from Minnesota aren't eager to talk about anything. But after a wile they warmed up to me, I guess. >> Let's go, you and I, right now. Pogo stick to China, what do ya say? >> Well, it would be less smelly and dirty and loud than a snowmobile. I'm in, let's do it. >> We'll get past the ocean. Don't worry about it. What was Bill Cooper's motivation for trying to do this? This guy has a nice, little bar in this town, probably makes a good living, and likes to snowmobile. But what do you think his motivation was? >> I think he had a belief that he was meant for great things. You know, you just meet people like that from time to time. I don't think it's just ego. I mean, I think that he just wanted to do something amazing with his life. This was a pretty good shot at that, I think. >> Sure. If he had made it, yeah. And the fact that he made it as far as he did, should be of note, I think. Is the bar still there in the town? >> It is still there. You can go and have a drink and a burger, and they have kind of a corner shrine to Bill Cooper. >> That was going to be my next question. How does the town? They still kind of celebrate him there, don't they? >> They do. They have a snowmobile race that's named after him. The bar, like I mentioned, has the shrine. And they, he's very famous in Willow River. >> Well, that's great. I was going to say, how crazy were they? But when you make it sound like that, it is kind of like, they just wanted to do something great. And then they become very likeable characters. These guys really did want to achieve something, just these guys from a small town. It's like the Hoosiers of snowmobiling, right? >> Yeah. >> Kind of along those lines. Well, let's see another clip from "Wild Bill's Run." >> But once we hit Thompson and there's no more roads, we were following the railroad track and it's incredibly cold. I mean, it's bitter. In that cold environment, you know, it becomes about survival. It took about one day to learn that. >> It was so darn cold. Nothing worked. Everything was broken. Every mile something happened. >> The sleds we had, all manufactured in Minnesota, just fell apart between Thompson and Churchill. >> Running on railroad tracks is goofy, you know. We couldn't get off the tracks because out there it was just bog. The snow was deep and soft. We would have just been stuck up to our necks. So we had to stay on the grade. After I was on it a few weeks I realized, maybe this isn't totally organized like it should be. But make the best of it. I doubt anything is perfect when you're really into it. >> The night we came into Churchill it was about 70-75 below, straight temperature. The wind up there never stops. So I have no idea what the wind chill was. But it was just, like, unbelievable. There was a small military base in Churchill, and Major Paterson was the individual in charge at the time. He was very anxious to help us and give us basic tips. >> Some of them were just BS. How to dress, you know, for cold weather. Oh, you're supposed to dress light so you don't sweat, and all this crap. That didn't work. >> That didn't work. Great characters, you know. Okay, so in the movie they embark on this journey, they don't make it, they cover everything, they go back. This where I thought they were really nuts though, is they went back the next year. You just saw in that clip, everybody just saw in that clip, how cold it was and what they did. A hundred miles into the thing they were, like, this isn't very well organized. And then they go back, further north, and get their stuff, and try to continue the trip. Talk about that part of it. >> That was one thing I kept pressing these guys on a lot, because it didn't make any sense to me. They actually did lose a few members from year one to year two, but I mean, it was clear-- >> Lose a few members meaning? >> Oh, well, they decided not to come back. No one actually died. >> He didn't kill them? >> He didn't kill anybody. But it was clear the first year that this was much slower going than they ever dreamed, and there was just no way they were going to make it. They just couldn't give up on the dream, I guess. And they decided to keep going. I mean, they talked about going back for a third year even, to try to keep going, whatever it took. >> Do you think these where just guys in bad marriages? It looks like a death wish. >> A lot of them are still with their wives. >> Or just the opposite, they're extremely supportive, is probably what it is. >> Yeah, the wives were a little dubious of the whole enterprise, but I think it's just a lot more fun than whatever their normal, daily jobs were. >> How much footage did they have? You had to, obviously, sift through a ton of stuff. Or was it a ton of stuff? Did they shoot a lot, the cameraman they brought? How much did they have? >> Yeah, they shot a lot. They shot a lot more than I had available to me. I had about 13 or 14 hours of footage. But I know they shot probably three, four times as much as that. They actually lost a lot of film along the way. They left some of their shot film in a hut, and they thought it had gotten stolen by some German explorers or something. That story was never clear to me, but when they came home they had a lot of the film-- It was done at a lab down in Minneapolis. Bill Cooper never paid for it, because he didn't have the money to pay for it. So it sat down there until just a couple of years ago. Then these guys started getting these mysterious packages in the mail as these labs in Minneapolis were shuttered. I don't know what percentage of film they got back, but it wasn't all of it. >> Wow. I didn't realize that the Instagram effect was around in the '70s. Was that something? I liked that part of it. It was kind of a good stylistic choice. >> The slide show? >> That, and you had the kind of Instagram effect, and that was obviously really the '70s. >> I mean, that's just the way it looked. When we transferred the footage we just left that neat 16mm border on it. We just thought, well, that looks great. I think that's one of the reasons a lot of people look at it, who don't know the history of it, and think it's a mockumentary. Because the footage, I even had someone tell me, you actually did too good of a job making that '70s footage look like it was '70s. Yeah, it was like it was faked too perfectly. You know, the colors and everything, just has that vibe. >> Hey, when you know what you're doin', you know what you're doin'. >> I wish I had that much money to fake something this successfully. >> Was it a big crew for something like this? >> No. It was usually two, three, four of us going out for the interviews. A pretty small crew. A lot of volunteer labor. >> Did they ever make a movie? They said they had all this footage. Did they ever try to do something with it? >> They didn't. They just ran out of money. They looked at the footage once or twice, but it just sat down in the lab in Minneapolis for, you know, 30 some years. >> Until Mike Scholtz. >> Until I stumbled across it. >> Great. Well, let's see another clip from "Wild Bill's Run." >> By now we're out of food. It's over two weeks. We came across another guy, a guy named Luke Aquila. Now Luke was a trapper. He only had one eye. Through his grandson translating, he's telling me all these stories of living up here. The village was being really harassed by a really wild pack of wolves. So he started trapping these wolves. Finally he caught this gigantic black wolf in his trap, so he was going over there to do away with this wolf with a harpoon and he got clawed by this wolf. It tore out his eye. But he managed to do in the wolf. I sat there for a couple of hours in this tent listening to this old man and this child tell me stories of their living in the arctic like that. It was just a wonderful time. He did also though give me some food. I was able to bring back so more food for the guys. They thought I got lost. >> I often thought how lucky we were that we never had a serious injury. >> We're tough. > We're lucky. >> That helped. >> On a day to day basis I wouldn't say it was dangerous. There were moments that were dangerous, thin ice, running low on food. What if we had never seen the Eskimo? We'd be there as skeletons now. But those things never happened. But it was close. >> It was close. We're talking with Mike Scholtz, director of "Wild Bill's Run." All right, this is the part in the film where I was, like, this is an actual, real-life, tall tale. I mean, Tutu the Eskimo bailed them out. That's such a great clip. Talk about the animation a little bit. >> Well, I actually did make up that part. That wasn't archival footage. There's stories that they would tell that, obviously, I don't have any footage for. So when we came to this great tall tale about this man who has one eye 'cause he lost it to a wolf, I just thought, there's got to be a way to illustrate this. I have a friend in Duluth, Brian Barber, who's a really accomplished animator and illustrator. He does a lot of children's books. I said, I want something in the middle of this movie that would feel like Frosty the Snowman, you know, those Rankin-Bass cartoons, kind of crossed with Nanook of the North. He was like, okay, I got it. He animated that to kind of have the feel of the 1970s, sort of, cartoon you might stumble across. >> He did a great job. I think it was that, and then I think at one point met an Eskimo who said, you'll never make it unless we rebuild your sleighs. It just gives you an idea of how long they were gone. They rebuilt sleighs so that they could handle the pounding, right, of the terrain? >> Right. >> What did these guys do all day. Obviously, I think Rob talks about when he went to find food. He was gone for like six days, or something like that. What did these guys do? >> Yeah, well, I think a lot of times they were running out of gas. So they were just sitting there waiting for the one poor sucker who had to go and find gas somewhere. >> At the North Pole. >> Yeah. >> I'm sure if there's a gas station. >> And they had, you know, I guess they had a map that had various possibilities. There a lot of gas dumps up there that the Canadian Air Force would leave. You're only supposed to take those in an emergency situation, and I guess they thought, well, this counts as an emergency. They'd sort of steal the gas. But yeah, I think a lot of time was spent just starting the snowmobiles, just getting them started. They would tell me it would take an hour and a half to get them all started in the morning, because as soon as you had the sixth or seventh one going, the first one would die and they'd have to repair something. And they'd just have to keep going. They would only make, like, you know, ten miles a day when they thought they were going to make hundreds of miles a day. >> I love the story about when the guys were talking about how they were in individual sleeping bags, the first night it was 100 below, and then they were sewing them together, all huddled up in a sleeping bag. They way those guys are talking about it, it's just so funny. It's great. But Bill Cooper, he was obviously, he knew what he was doing right? Because the fact that he brought a cinematographer means, hey, I want to be famous. I want to be known for being Bill Cooper, right? Talk about his ego a little bit. >> He was pretty savvy about this. He even grew-- You'll see it in the film. He grew this sort of a chin-strap beard, so that he would always stick out. Everyone else could have a full beard or clean-shaven, but he owned this chin-strap beard. He wanted to be the star of the film and still be recognizable. I think the one miscalculation he made is documentaries aren't quite as popular as he thought they were. He assumed, if they just made a movie about this, you know, brought the cinematographer along, and released this in theaters-- I actually saw in his press packet, he thought this was going to make millions and millions of dollars in the early '70s. And I don't think there are a lot of documentaries that do that even today. >> Right. I'm very sorry I shaved off my beard right before this. Let's go to another clip from "Wild Bill's Run." >> He called Marian and said we wouldn't be seeing him for a while. >> He disappeared. He literally disappeared from our entire family. No contact. >> It's sad when someone just disappears like that, and you never know for sure. >> I'm not sure where Bill is, how he died or if he's alive. I'd sure like to see him again. >> Well, I'm curious, you know, whatever happened to him. Of course, the FBI told me that, or the US Marshals, when they were here, he says, he's either in Mexico laying in the ground, or he's in Canada running around. That's what they told me. I don't know. >> I think he got killed in a drug deal that went wrong. That's my honest-- >> I'm sure I'm never see him again, whether he's alive or isn't. >> My best guess is he'd head for Canada. That's be my best guess. Because he knew a lot of people up there, and he was a survivor, like I said. He could probably go out in the woods and live forever, you know. But he's up there in age now too, if he is alive. >> After he disappeared there were some newspaper guy, or some radio somebody would say, oh, they heard that Bill Cooper was here or there, or a sighting, or something like that. Or somebody would start a rumor about something. I personally didn't think any of them held any water at all. I thought, if Bill was around, he'd call me. >> Because there's always been rumors about Bill, and I don't believe in rumors. I just don't believe it. I think he's gone. >> I have to make a confession. After I watched this film, I did some digging, and I found him. >> Is he here? >> He's doing nails at East Towne Mall, and he's great. No. >> Unsurprised. He's be great at anything. >> That was such an odd twist. I loved that. When I was watching this, I'm like, wait a minute, he was on the ten most wanted list, how have I not heard of this guy. How many Bill Coopers are out there? I mean, how many of these great stories about these iconic characters exist, do you think? >> I'd like to think there's a lot of them, because it's be fun to keep making movies about them. I mean, he's fairly well-known in Duluth, and obviously he's well-known in Willow River. But yeah, as I've been taking this on the festival circuit, nobody's heard of this guy. And I think that's the fun part. >> It's such a great iconic image, that one of him with the big hood. He just looks like such a mythical character almost. Do you have any desire to make that maybe you're next project, to find out what happened to him? That would probably more ambitious. >> Yeah, we tried pretty hard to find out what happened to him this time. We even went to a family reunion where a lot of his kids were at in Canada. I thought, oh, Canada, maybe he'll just show up. But he didn't. His kids seem to genuinely believe something unfortunate must have happened to him somewhere along the way. We just don't know. >> It does seem odd. He's so beloved by his friends. For them to do this, they obviously love the guy. He was that good a friend to them. You do think he would contact-- Even an ego, to keep his mystique, would be overtaken by his affection for his friends, right? >> Yeah, and his friends and family, they're the same way. They say, you know, it's great that people tell this story and want to believe that maybe he escaped to northern Canada, but he just wasn't that kind of guy who wouldn't have gotten in contact with his friends or his family. >> What is your favorite part of this whole story about Wild Bill? >> One of my favorite things that you just reminded me of, that actually I cut out of the movie last minute. I wish I hadn't. There's sort of that deleted scene where Frank, the cowboy in the film, he told me a great story. He was out in his field working with his cows, and this airplane came across the horizon. It flew right over and tipped it's wing, and then flew off into the distance. That was right after the time that Bill Cooper had disappeared. He looked me in the eye and he said, I just bet that was Bill Cooper saying goodbye to me. Then his wife yelled from off camera, "No, that was Joe Smith from down the road. That wasn't Bill Cooper. He told us about it the next day." Then Frank said, okay, "Cut that out of the movie." I'd rather believe it was Bill Cooper. >> The mystique continues. Well, Mike, good luck with the film. It was great having you here, and really fun, great work. >> Thank you, I appreciate it. Thank you. >> And thank you all very much for joining us here at Director's Cut. For more information on "Wild Bill's Run" please go to our website at wpt.org, and click on Director's Cut. I'm guest host Pete Schwaba, and that's a wrap. >> There aren't a lot of adventures available in the world. If you're an ordinary human being, you don't get extraordinary chances very often. Bill had this crazy ability to take ordinary, average people, just ordinary people, and give them this idea that they too could be extraordinary.