Director's Cut

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Voiceover

After nearly 29 years of destitution, he had given the Packers new life by bringing two Super Bowl appearances, one world championship and three consecutive MVP seasons. We all loved him. (crowd cheering) I hate Brett Favre. -

Voiceover

The events which transpired in Green Bay from 2008 to 2010 forever changed the way I saw Brett, the Packers, the sport, and my role as a fan. I got into numerous arguments with friends, both in person and online. I couldn't understand how so many people could have differing opinions on the exact same set of facts. Some of us just agreed to stop talking to one another until it was all over. Hi, welcome to Director's Cut. I'm Pete Schwaba and that was a clip from Last Day at Lambeau, a documentary about the contentious relationship between Green Bay quarterback Brett Favre and the Packer brass during Favre's final days in Tinsel Town. We're joined today by the film's director and lifelong Packer fan, Michael Neelsen. Michael, welcome to Director's Cut. Thanks so much for having me. - Good to have you here. Nice job on the film! - Thank you. I have to ask you,

before we start

I know you want to be impartial here, but do you have a side here? Favre, Packers? I had more of a side before doing this. That's part of the reason why we decided to do this, was, um, that I, I... Yes, being a life-long Packers fan, I felt everything that you could possibly feel in this, the conflict between the, the player that you were in love with and the team that was kind of the meaning behind everything and having to choose sides, you know. It was rough, and then the reason to make this film, this was largely an interrogation of myself to try and figure out why do I care so much. And now, quite frankly, when I get jerseys, I don't put-- I get the team name, not the individual name anymore. It's like I don't-- I just, I've chosen to let people be people and-- It's more of the team now that I'm-- I just don't get invest myself in the player as much. Yeah, it's almost kind of unfair to the fan that that happened because they did force you to choose. Or you were forced to choose. I guess you didn't have to. - Yeah. So is it-- like they're your favorite team? They have been since you were a kid. Was it intimidating in any way, making a film about your favorite team? Was it... did you... Were you worried about, "Oh, this is too overwhelming?" Not, not so much. Actually, I, it's a, um, it, it was weird. I always wanted to do something that had to do with more so the Packers, but football in general. And I think my, my rabid fandom of the team actually made it a little bit easier for me on the story part of everything; not talking about production, but just on the idea of... That daunting feeling, I think, was less for me because I felt-- Well, I had essentially been doing research for this movie for my entire life. (laughter) So, it's kind of like a-- I should have cataloged more! - Exactly. Right. So it's in a weird way, it was easier than jumping onto a subject I knew nothing about and having to start researching. This was kind of like, "Well, I kind of already know how I want to start this, so I'm just gonna dive in and talk to my dad and producing partner and we just kind of went, "Hey, "he's coming back to Green Bay for his final game in a couple months. Let's get cameras." - Nice. So,

let me ask you this

You went to film school and a lot of times when people come out of film school, or at least people I know they want to make some great artistic film. And you went right for the meat and potatoes. A sports film about your favorite team. Talk about that a little bit. What was your choice there? And did you want that to be your first film? I, I... No. I had the same imagination coming out of film school. I wanted to make my Reservoir Dogs, right? - Right. Or my Mean Streets or something, or Who's Knocking, I guess. But it's, it's a... this was something that it was, it was the most fully-formed thing in my mind that I could just jump into. Like it was, I knew what the carrot was I was chasing. Especially in documentary, where you don't how it's gonna end, we didn't know who was going to win that final game. We didn't know what kind of access we were gonna get to people or anything like that. I just, I needed to be as passionate about the subject as I was the making of it, the process of making it. And I didn't really find it with anything else, until this. Because, you know, when football season comes around, everything else stops in many ways, and for me, included. And so it's kind of a-- it was an easy way to leverage that along with my passion for making the film. Cool. - Yeah. Well, let's see another clip from Last Day at Lambeau. I got the call on a night that I had decided this would be the one night that I would leave my cell phone in the living room so I wouldn't be woken up because I'd been working long hours. I'm just going to leave it out there.

I don't want any 6

00 AM text messages. I remember I was actually in bed when I heard about it, and I got some kind of a message. Well, of course,

I wake up at like 9

00 AM, and I have 12 missed calls from my boss saying, "Get into the office. "We need to put out an extra edition right now." The day that no Packer fan has wanted has arrived. Brett Favre informed the team on Monday night that he is retiring. I guess it was a surprise to me throughout much of the 2007 season, especially near the end. I would get questions all the time from readers, Do you think this is Brett's last season? And I thought, there's no way. For him to walk away at that point I think floored us so much more than if he'd walked away two years earlier when the team was bad. It was one of those moments where I think everybody remembers where they were, what they were doing at the moment they heard Brett Favre announced his retirement. I am officially retiring from the NFL and the Green Bay Packers. As much as I thought about what I would say and how... I promised I wouldn't get emotional. Watching him, I was just like this is not a guy who's ready to retire. It's never easy. You know, it's funny, I've watched hundreds of players retire. And you wonder what that would be like. How hard was it to get interviews? Did you try to interview-- I assume you tried to interview Favre and the Packers? Were they forthcoming at all, or? I talked to a representative at Bus Cook's office, who's Brett's agent. So they were aware of it, but I, but other than that one conversation, I never got any call backs or anything, which I wasn't terribly surprised about. I talked to Aaron Popkey, who's the PR director at the Green Bay Packers, a couple times. At that point, you have to remember just in historical context, Favre was still in the league, he was still playing for the Vikings. So their line was, you know, you know, "We basically have a boilerplate response to anything that "inquires about Brett Favre and the Packers and "maybe we'll talk a little bit more once he's out of the league," is basically what they were saying at the time. So, no. We didn't get any involvement that, but that was so early on, that we got those no's that we were able to kind of reframe ourselves a little bit and say, "Okay, what was this really supposed to be about, anyway?" It wasn't going to be a tit for tat like investigative thing behind the closed doors at Lambeau to figure out what really happened. That was never the goal. It was more about, "Why do we care so much?" And we didn't need their involvement to decide, to dissect that. Right. How was it... You have a lot of Wisconsin media, and I would imagine, you know, they were pretty willing to talk and probably enjoyed themselves. Hope so. (laughs) - Were they cooperative and...? They were all great. I mean... and a couple of them, I mean, my goodness. We got two interviews, with Tom Pelissero, who, at the time, was with ESPN Twin Cities 1500. And he was incredibly gracious with his time. Lori Nickel was incredibly gracious with her time. We interviewed her twice. Bill Johnson, we interviewed for like the longest time. It was like a two hour, two and a half hour interview with him. Um, they were all really gracious with their time. As a matter of fact, Wayne Larrivee, this was an early rookie mistake, but we like screwed up and got bad audio the first time we interviewed him. So we had to go back and interview him again. He was very gracious. They were all fantastic. So that blew me away, and that was great. It was tough because I'm a Bear fan and he used to do the Bears games....and he went to Green Bay and I, it was like, "Wow. That guy, he's a great play-by-play guy." He is, yeah. - And he was good in the film. Do you have-- how are the other Packers as far as interviewing them and getting their takes? Were they willing to? Or was there like a seal, like they wouldn't let 'em? No, I'm sure that if we had pushed harder for some ex-Packers, we would have gotten a couple. We had a couple of ex-Packers at screenings afterwards. Like William Henderson was at the Milwaukee Film Festival screening. Chris Jacke was at the Green Bay Film Festival screening. So we've had their input, like, in post-screening Q&As now. Oh, okay. But we didn't really, to be honest, push for that, really, during the filming. I made like a couple of calls, at one point. But once we had figured out what our, kind of, controlling thought was for the whole project, that it was about fans and fandom and why we put so much investment into something like this, but not talking about that on the nose, looking at it through the prism of what happened-- Okay. It just became less vital and less essential to have players talk a little bit. I, it's... Just the target veered a little bit, and so we, it ended up being more about like in that, in that clip. I remember where I was when that happened, when, when he retired. I remember getting a text message from my dad saying, "Favre retires. "16 years of memories with you," you know, you know. Like it was a family thing and a community thing. And, and so I... It became more about, "Well, let's talk to the people who were there in the room," which were the journalists, "and see if that kind of helps us at all frame this differently, feel differently about it." Right. And I don't know that we fully... I don't know fully what we achieved, but I know that I feel differently having done this than I did to start it. - Yeah. Well, let's see another clip from Last Day at Lambeau. You could tell something was off around that Fourth of July weekend, because there were leaks or things coming out that he was getting the itch to come back, but you weren't getting anything out of Green Bay... at all. You know, I mean, he started talking about, you know, the itch to come back. But I didn't think at that time that it was that unusual because lots of former players do that, you know? It's hard to retire. -

Voiceover

I wake up at like 9

It wasn't long until the Packers silence had fans asking questions. Go Pack go! One, two, three. - Go Pack go! -

Voiceover

I wake up at like 9

Things were about to get difficult. On July 9th, Coach McCarthy made an appearance at the Boys & Girls Club of Wisconsin to announce a donation he was making. Right here. (laughter) Back in the back. Yes, ma'am? Question in the back. Yes, ma'am? Already asked that one. - Oh. Yes, ma'am right here. (laughs) Right here in the gray T-shirt, yes sir. 38. Right behind you. (laughter) Sure, better than answering these questions! (laughter) I truly believe that the Packers were caught off-guard. Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy believed Favre when he said, I'm retired, I'm not going to play anymore. I'm never going to play for anybody other than Green Bay. I'm done, all good things must come to an end. They believed him. But Brett Favre walking up to that March press conference, even then, he was second-guessing himself. Am I doing the right thing, should I do this now? I don't know if I'm ready to make this decision now. They want an answer now. So, I read your bio, you have a line about this film that says, "What if the pride of the community "hinged on the demise of their greatest hero." Can you explain that a little bit? I'm drawn to irony everywhere, so I love the inherent irony of, it seems to get to a place after Brett joined the Vikings. It seemed to get to a place where the Packers fans, people who aligned themselves as Packers fans to the exclusion of a Brett fan, you know, because there were all these different sects, but those folks felt that they had to beat Brett Favre as a Viking now in order to like maintain the pride of, of, being Packers fans and maintaining, kind of, the hollow ground of Lambeau Field and all that stuff, and this is all kind of both beautiful, but kind of wacky sides of just fan thinking because I felt that way. I'm not like saying, "Other people, and not myself." I felt that way... - Right. It felt like if you didn't beat him at least once as a Viking, it was like he got the last laugh at you and you're going to remember this forever, and it's never going to go away and, this was largely a way for me to kind of sort of exercise that for myself a little bit. Yeah. - I guess. You can still sort of love him if your team beats him after he leaves. Right, or you can feel like, "Yeah, we're still the great Green Bay Packers." Yeah. One player isn't bigger than the team. Right. - That sort of thing. So, you've made films in L.A., Austin, Madison, and Milwaukee. Talk about the creative process as it pertains to geography. Are you more creative in one area or do you like working in your hometown? Talk about that a little bit. It's weirdly transformed for me because when I left Madison, because I went to Memorial High School here in Madison. When I left to go to film school in LA, I thought basically anywhere but Madison was going to be my best shot at making films. I thought there was no film scene here. There were theaters here, but no one was doing anything really here of substance and I was going to have to go somewhere else. It's turned around now full circle where I actually feel that my best shot at doing the kind of work I want to do is being here in Madison, and that has a lot to do with the fact that we founded Story First Media here and we make commercials and do everything on the day side and then at nights and weekends, we're doing these independent projects and so the resources for me to actually make the kind of films I want to make are here now and if I were to move to, say Austin again or move to L.A. again or anywhere else, I would actually have a harder time corralling those resources. Now, that's just my experience. You know, for others, it may feel as empty as it's ever been, but from my experience, this is the best place for me to-- Are you going to stay here and keep... I am. - You're here to stay. I have nothing in the future that has me going anywhere else. So, yeah. - Yeah, great. Let's see another clip from Last Day at Lambeau. -

Voiceover

I wake up at like 9

After that night, which is very uncomfortable for everybody, especially Aaron Rodgers, the next day Brett Favre and Mike McCarthy met for about six hours in Lambeau Field in Mike's office. The meeting started very poorly between McCarthy and Favre. There was a lot of yelling, a lot of screaming, a lot of cursing. McCarthy wanted to gauge whether or not Favre wanted to come back and play and did he want to come back and play for the Packers. That was a key thing. What an odd concept to ask him if he wanted to come back for the Packers. But, at the time, the Packers organization had been hearing things that Favre did not want to come back. That he wanted to play for Minnesota. That he wanted out. That he didn't want to play for Ted anymore. Let me see if I've got this straight. You're now 100% certain you want to play football. Where is a different story. He decided not to come back. He, in the end, he had the ability to come back. Favre never just came out and said I'm 100% committed to playing, and I 100% want to play for the Packers. There never was... Those words were never uttered. The meeting just went on and on. So you knew that they must have been talking things out. I mean, there were press and cameramen camped out, outside Favre's house waiting for signs of anybody. All the media huddled outside the loading dock, waiting for someone to emerge. We have all this coverage of Favre's coming back. Brett Favre reinstated and expected back in training camp tomorrow. He's been offered a $25 million deal for two years, a marketing agreement essentially, you know, and not a bribe, but in a way, a bribe to stay away and just to be part of the Packers family. And Favre's sitting in McCarthy's office saying, "How would it look? "How would it look if right now I just took that money and walked away?" I don't think McCarthy ever heard the words he wanted to hear, which were, "Listen, I 100% want to play for the Packers. I 100% want to play this season. I'll do whatever it takes." That, to me, was the best clip of the whole movie 'cause you didn't realize that he never said that. - Right. Like, why wouldn't you just say that? Sure, it's been so long since I've watched this now. This, this it very much plays like a time capsule to me now. It's, it's like, it's, it's a... At the time this felt very urgent and it's relevant now and this is what we're going through. Now I watch and with, with the hindsight of he's already been put in the Packers' Hall of Fame and he's getting inducted in the pro football Hall of Fame this year, and all this stuff. And it's a, it's, it's, it's, it's like, it's like this little emotional packet of like, you know, what it felt like back then. It's a... Yeah, it's very interesting. They made nice now because they had the event last year. But don't you think there's still some... Oh, completely. Resentment or anger there. - Completely. I mean they had to do what they did. You gotta give the guy credit for what he did and what he accomplished, but-- Absolutely, but let just... All you gotta do is look at the way that they did that spring, that spring even where he came back and was put in the Packers' Hall of Fame. And the event they did with they filled the bowl of Lambeau Field with fans and all this stuff. Just look at the absolute mess the organization of that was. Like the PR of them going back and forth and is Brett afraid he's going to get booed and all this stuff. And Mark Murphy the president coming out and saying, "Yeah,you know, that is a concern. "You know, we were thinking about that." And Brett then coming out and going, "I'm not concerned at all." Like it still was going on, even at that time. But just in really passive ways. Yeah. And then Brett does a total Brett thing where he walks out the field and acts surprised that everyone's there (laughs) which is just... I, I love him, but it's-- - That's kind of lame, really? It doesn't stop right. This, this, this mixture of personalities is why this is. He's more a diva than Aaron Rogers, you know. Yeah. He's a little more of a-- Or he, or he knows more what image he's presenting than maybe the "Aw, shucks" mentality would lead us to believe. Right and like you said in your film-- He would do things just to get a reaction out of people which I think it's kind of funny. Right, it is funny. I like guys like that, you know, but... So, you have this Story First media And your partner is your dad. Talk about that. What's that like working with your dad? Yeah, and we never planned on it. His, his background's not in film or entertainment or anything, but his background's in sales and marketing for a variety of things. So he worked at, like, ad agencies and such uh, and in the print industry. And so, at a certain point when I was living down in Austin, this would have been in 2008, mid 2008. We just kind of realized we were talking the same language a lot. Um, he was wanting to get more story principles infused into the world of marketing for brands, as opposed to selling features and benefits. And I was studying story, obviously, from the standpoint of film and production, that way. And so, when we just realized we were talking the same way we were like, "Hey let's combine efforts, and maybe it'll be a better situation than what we currently have." So, we founded the company in a French bakery in Austin and we've had it since 2009. So who has the final say? - Uh, you know, it's-- Is he the studio? - In some ways. But, you know, we kind of go back, like we push each other. That's kind of the nice thing about... And I think the reason the partnership works is that he brings things to the table I don't and, and vise versa. Perfect. And we both will kind of push back at the other one if we feel the other one's doing something that's maybe not quite what we should be doing or whatever. We stay pretty much down the middle of the line that way. Let's see another clip from Last Day at Lambeau. It's a one-way street. This is not a symbiotic relationship. Favre doesn't care about Packers fans. That's one of the great misconceptions that Packers fans have. He never did. Yes, he wanted to play for them. Yes, he appreciated the love. But in the end, it was about Brett Favre. So when he says that true Packers fans will understand... What's there to understand? And nobody ever said that he had to stay and play in Green Bay forever, but just kind of the disregard that he had for the Packer fans. There's a certain number of people that were Packer fans that aren't going to be Packer fans anymore. And that's not going to affect Brett Favre. That's going to affect those people. You know, that's something that was really good in their life that isn't going to be the same again. And it was because one guy had a disagreement with his boss. -

Voiceover

I wake up at like 9

When he signed with the Vikings today,

this Packer fan

I wake up at like 9

interpreted it as an act of betrayal, so he did the only thing he could think of to make himself feel better, set his coveted Favre jersey on fire tonight. As a Packers fan, it was hard to stomach. Favre becoming a Viking? I mean that's impossible. That's just... It's impossible, but it's actually happening. This is what you deserve from the Packer fans. Yeah, I'm a true Packer fan, and I don't believe you're doing the right thing, so you can kiss my Wisconsin ass! I mean, Brett Favre, realistically, to be fair, probably doesn't have an obligation to give any kind of care to what Packers fans are thinking. But, he spent 16 years there. You know, fans supported you through addictions. Through family tragedies. A lot of people stuck by you. So, what's your take on fandom after this? I have to admit, I was watching a game and my team lost-- This was 20 years ago, and I'm about ready to put my fist through a wall. Then I look at the TV and the players that just actually played are joking around together and I feel like the biggest loser ever. Do we put too much into our-- Like, we see these fans and how they react. We get passionate. Do we overdo it? (sighs heavily) I guess I can speak for myself as a fan, is it's all about just keeping it in perspective. I used to lose perspective, and it would ruin your week if they lost. And, it's kind of like, "Why?" I mean, ultimately, other than you watching it, you knew no one involved, you had no involvement, and you have no control over the outcome. So, it almost seems reckless for your own mental health to put so much investment into it. That doesn't take away my love of being a fan. I just become a fan of Liverpool Football Club in England because I wanted something to follow outside of the Packers. That you weren't as passionate about. Well, I feel like I'm equally passionate now, but it's the community now more. Fandom is about bringing people together rather than caring so much about what someone I don't know does. Yeah, it's weird, like, I always think fans overdo it now. They live and die with their team. They depressed if--

But that's a good point

the guy said, "We were with you when your wife got sick. "When your dad died." You can see it from both sides. - Totally, totally. You're kinda' in the middle of another project now. Want to talk about it a little bit? Also with ties to Green Bay. - Yeah, weirdly. It's on the Tom Monfils murder case in Green Bay, Wisconsin in 1992 to 1995. It just came about totally by chance that the first two films are set in Green Bay. But that's-- Obviously, the stakes are a lot higher. We're dealing with actual people's well-being in this film. And it's also more of a first-person story. It's not third-person perspective, like it is in this film. It's people like the suspects, themselves, and the detective who investigated the case and the DA who prosecuted the case and family members, people who were actually involved in this. But that whole story is compelling for a lot of the same reasons, even though the stakes are higher. This guy goes disappearing-- disappears in a paper mill. Found in the bottom of a pulp vat, and then, six coworkers were convicted and sentenced to life in prison. And to this day, there's still hearings about it. There's still people trying to get new trials. The D.A. says, "Every day goes by, I'm more and more certain we were right." How does that happen? That's kind of what we're going after. Well, I wish you luck with it. - Thank you so much. Great job on the film. - Thank you. And thank you for watching Director's Cut. For more information on Last Day at Lambeau, please go to WPT.org and click on Director's Cut. While you're there, send us an email or find out how to submit a film. Also, please don't forget to like WPT on Facebook, and follow us on Twitter. I'm Pete Schwaba, and if I have to make a choice between Brett Favre and Aaron Rogers, I'll take Lynn Dickey. We'll see you next time on Director's Cut. It's a great cautionary tale against idol worship, but I don't think that it'll change fans. I don't think it can because I think fans, by definition, latch onto their heroes and love them. You may buy that jersey and think that that's your player for life and you're going to go through the ups and downs with him and feel like you know him, and he's still going to go play for other teams, if that's what's best for him.