Hello. I'm Erik Buell. Our small team in Wisconsin have been building America's sport motorcycles since 1983. We have built amazing and exciting world-class bikes, so it is a very emotional time for me right now, as I have to announce that the decision has been made that we will no longer be building Buell motorcycles.
metal clanging and crashing
>>Hi, welcome to Director's Cut. I'm Pete Schwaba, and that
was a clip from The Ragged Edge
An American Comeback Story, a documentary that tells the story of "Erik Buell Racing," and the challenges that Buell faced, both as an engineer and a small businessman. I'm joined today by the film's producer and co-director, Matt Sienkiewicz. Matt, welcome to Director's Cut. >> Thanks for having me, Pete. >> Got the name right, didn't I? >> Not bad, not bad. >> All right, all right. Well, welcome. So, tell us a little bit about the story and how you found it. You're not a native Wisconsinite but you went to school here. >> Yeah, I was doing my degree out here from 2005 to 2011. It was sort of a bit of serendipity that brought together the project. I produce all of my film projects with Joe Sousa. He's a Boston-based television and film producer. Joe was working on a show for The History Channel called Sliced. And the concept was that they would find cool machinery, cool things out in the world, and they would cut it in half with a diamond-bladed saw, and, like show you the inside. I'm not sure where the "history" came in, but it was sort of a cool idea. The upshot is that one of the things that they sliced was a bike produced by Erik Buell. >> Oh, okay. >> And so
Joe
was a clip from The Ragged Edge
got to talking to 'em, and, you know, he was intrigued by the character and the story behind Erik and Buell motorcycles. And it just so happened that I was at Wisconsin doing my PhD. And so, Joe gave me a call and says, "Why don't you drive down to East Troy and have a conversation with this guy, Erik Buell? I think he's interesting. You tell me if you think he's interesting." And I got down there, and I was hooked. It's just his story grabbed me and he grabbed me. >> Yeah, it's interesting because I don't know much about motorcycle racing, and when I saw what the film was about, I was like, "Oh, this will be interesting. I don't know much about it." But, really, when you watch it, you know everything.
It's a very common struggle
the story. We'll talk more about that, but it's a great story. And that's one of the most interesting ways to find a documentary subject I think that I think I've ever seen-- just cutting a motorcycle in half. >> They cut it in half, yeah. >> So, how'd you meet Erik? Did you just drive out there and start talking to him? Was he open to that, to the idea of having a documentary? >> He was surprisingly open for somebody who is... his business operations are always really tough... They're difficult. He's always... He has to be worried about appearances because that's the investment world. But he was a really open guy. He was a guy who... He got us immediately, I think. >> Yeah. >> Especially when we said we wanted to follow his race crew. At first, I think he first thought, "Is this going to be one of those race films showing wipe outs and stuff like that?" >> Right. >> I think I convinced him and Joe convinced him pretty quickly that, "No, we wanted to tell a story about people." And I think what was important to him, and especially important to us is that it wasn't just about him. I mean he certainly is at the center of this story. He has to be. His name's on the bike. But the story is really about the people on the track and even, I think, even more importantly, the people in East Troy who make the bikes. >> Yeah, it's interesting that you can make a film about motorcycle-- to some degree about motorcycle racing, but the really important part of it or the really interesting part of it is not really the racing, but the story behind it. So, let's see... Let's see another clip right now from The Ragged Edge. >> My very first involvement in racing was just racing dirt bikes back in Pennsylvania, just small dirt bikes. I really, really enjoyed it, and, sort of never went back. I worked on a motorcycle shop. After fixing so many different kinds of things for years, you begin to see what bad designs are. You'd look at something and go, "Man, I could have made it better than that, I could have designed it better than that." So then, I thought I'd need to go back to school and actually get some tools so I could do that better. You know, I'd actually dropped out of college, and, to go play music for a few years, but I decided to go back to, for engineering so that I could-- well, really-- so I could build motorcycles.
electric rock guitar
motorcycle engine revs
It's a very common struggle
>> The whole idea with any sport bike is to make it feel like it's part of the rider. I see a motorcycle as being something that's very athletic. That means that it needs to be responsive to me because I'm the athleticism. A motorcycle doesn't do anything without me. The idea of 'fuel in the frame' dropped all that weight of the frame down low on the bike instead of up high where a gas tank normally is......so that makes the bike more consistent through the race.
motorcycle engine revs
It's a very common struggle
When you have the mass close to rider, then the bike feels more nimble. So the whole bike, if you make everything close to the middle, is much quicker and feels like it's part of you.
motorcycle engine rumbles
It's a very common struggle
>> Did you have a previous connection to motorcycles or the racing world, in any way? >> Not really. I'm a big sports fan, and so, anything competitive interests me. But, no. I'm not a motorcycle rider. I'm not somebody who previously followed AMA Racing although now I pay closer attention to it. >> Yeah. >> No. I mean the story, the part of the story that grabbed us was really about the people. And while, we knew we'd have some great footage of bikes going really fast, and we knew that was a good thing to get people's interest kind of stoked up for the film, but the heart of it is about the people. You know? The moment where I was convinced that I wanted to make the film, and I talked to Joe, and we said that we wanted to do it was after both talking to Erik and seeing that clip you showed at the beginning of the people destroying the bikes. And just the visual here of people's hard work, you know. >>Being thrown in the scrap heap >> Being thrown away. These amazing machines! So, that's what interested me with the motorcycles. As much as the racing, it's these people who put their souls into it. >> And they're really proud of their work, too! >> They're so proud of it! I mean, this is the, you know, the part of the story that needs to be told is that, you know, here is a company that was giving people a opportunity to have a fulfilling work life. You know, to go to work and come back with a smile on their face.
One
'cause they were treated well. But,
two
because they get to go outside and see a motorcycle that they helped build. >> How does-- Okay, I'm watching this. What I found very disconcerting was this guy, Erik Buell, he's got a good product. He's a bright guy. >> Yeah. >> Probably has a great business plan. He even has trouble raising money for his small business. So, talk about the parallel between the small business and the racing, if you will, and how a guy like that even has trouble. >> Yeah. >> His motorcycles are placing and they're winning races, and he still can't raise the money. >> No, it's absolutely-- it's a confounding thing about the American economy. And one of the messages of the film is that we think there's a problem. You know, the connection between the racing and, sort of, the sales side is really interesting in this case because Erik actually races, basically, the same bike that you would buy from a dealer. As opposed to these modified, souped-up amazingly expensive kind of things that other companies do. So, he's proving on the racetrack, that his bikes-- the one, like, that you would buy at the store-- is world-class. >> Yeah. >> And so you would think, and I would think, that somebody would look at that and say... >> I want to be a part of that. >> "There's got to be a way to make money, right?" >> I mean, and the fans, you see the fans in the film. People who love them, love them! Right? >> But, you know, the way that we came to understand it, and I think this is the way that Erik understands it, as well, although I hesitate to speak for him too directly, is that there is just no place in the American investment world for that sort of long-term slow-growth solid product kind of investment. >> Mm-hmm. >> You know, people either want to hold their money, or... >> The next Facebook. >> or they want the next Facebook. >> I'd love the next Facebook. >> Right. Right, right! >> As a filmmaker, I noticed when they re-launched EBR, they seemed to have a lot of film. Were they almost anticipating making some kind of documentary, or were you happy you found that, or was that something that you guys back-filmed somehow? How did that work? >> Which material here are you? >> Well, when they launch, when they re-launched EBR, Buell folded and then they... It seemed like they had a lot of office footage. >> Oh, that was us! Yeah, yeah, that's our material. So, we started.... >> You started a while back. >> Yeah, this started in 2010. And, you know, when we got there, it was maybe four or five employees and an empty office that he was in the process of trying to re-acquire. So this was a long-term project. This, goes sort of full-circle, unfortunately, due to recent events with the company. But, you know, it started with them at nothing. And you watch, over the course of four years, them develop into this really strong community-based company, and, then, now they're facing new troubles. >> Let's see another clip from
The Ragged Edge
An American Comeback Story.
wind blowing
The Ragged Edge
It came as kind of a shock 'cause it looked like everything was going great for them, and then all of a sudden
pft
The Ragged Edge
, you know. Wonderful business, I wish it could be here but... Son of a gun!
BL
The Ragged Edge
: It certainly has an impact when you lose 200 jobs overnight.
NN
The Ragged Edge
: I cried and... I had no idea where I was going to go, what I was going to do... just, just lost.
JH
The Ragged Edge
: We thought, well maybe this is just something they're scaring us with or something. It hit us all pretty hard.
Guitar strumming
EB
The Ragged Edge
: And they shut us down. I don't know how to put it in more of a nutshell than that. I mean it's, it's not a nutshell thing, it's a big picture thing. I mean it's basically-- you have to do things right and sometimes timing gets you. It's impossible to go back in time and really know, "Would I have signed that deal?" >> Talk about what it's like, as a documentarian, when you literally see people... you're filming them as their dreams are being crushed, basically. What does that do to you as a filmmaker?
Matt sighs heavily
The Ragged Edge
>> Yeah, that's not a lot of fun. It's, you know, you have to...
One
you have to be appreciative. You just have to appreciate that the these people are willing to open up their lives. >> Yeah. >> And be vulnerable, right? It's really hard to be vulnerable. >> And so, you appreciate that people want to do it. Secondly, you have to believe that there's something more important that you're doing. That you're not just making a spectacle of their pain, but that you're showing a systematic problem. Something that, you know, you're pointing to a problem that goes beyond them, so they come to represent something in their struggles, and something that, hopefully, we can improve upon socially. >> Sure. >> And, you know, as Society. It's really disheartening. I mean, the great part about the process of making the film is that especially Jason, who you saw in that last clip, he comes back to EBR, and you just see the smile on his face, and you see them back to have a fulfilling life, and then, sadly, now again, these problems have re-cropped up, and, uh... >> Yeah! Well, we'll talk about that, too, but talk about Erik's... To me, the most interesting part of the film was Erik, and his willingness to come back and keep fighting for his product. Talk about that struggle for him. >> Yeah, I mean, he easily could have packed it in. He has accomplished a lot in his life. When, the first time he was shut down, when Harley cut Buell out, I didn't see his bank accounts, but I'm sure that he was fine. I'm sure that he wasn't going to starve, right? And he risked a lot, you know, maybe most of what he had. Ah, and he did it partially 'cause he's just this incredibly driven person who wants to achieve things, and knows that he can contribute to the world, but he also had a commitment to East Troy. And he had a commitment to the people that you see in this film. And, it was not just about him. It was about something more than him. >> Does that make you feel more of a responsibility, when you see his commitment to his workers and to the town of East Troy, do you feel a greater responsibility as a filmmaker? >> Completely. Yeah, I mean the willingness of people to open up during some of the hardest times of their lives is a tremendous responsibility. You know, you have to be careful to be... You have to be accurate. You have to be sympathetic, and the also have to try to frame things in a way that you think can be productive. It would be completely irresponsible to not do that. So, yeah, it's a good burden because you get to see people sort of in how they are in an interesting and difficult situation. >> Yeah. Explain the title The Ragged Edge. I don't understand that part of the title. >> Yeah, The Ragged Edge... We actually went back and forth, sort of directly explaining it and not. The "ragged edge" is a racing term for when you're just barely hanging on. You're going as fast as you can. You're taking the turns as tight as you can. >> Your knee is "that" far from the... >> Yeah, you're about to wipe out, right, but you just hold on. And we see that as a metaphor for Erik's company. He lives on the "ragged edge." He did as a racer. As we talk about in the film, he talks about some of these ridiculous injuries that he's had. And then, he's sort of suffered metaphorical fairly-ridiculous injuries in the business world. So, he's always just sort of teetering, hanging on the "ragged edge." >> Interesting to ask him what is more traumatic, which "ragged edge?" Let's see another clip from The Ragged Edge. >> I got hurt very badly in Charlotte, leading a race. Wound up shattering my leg. Racing people go, "Oh, is that worth doing?" Absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely.
EB:
One
It was greatest things ever. I love racing. If I could still do it,I would. Tisch was the sister of a... of a friend of mine. We dated for years and she went to the races with me. She thought I was dead and it looked like I was dead but they were able to bring me back to life. You know that nerve ganglia which is right at your funny bone? The thing you poke and you go, "Agh!" Right? It's on top of my arm now. And, so, then when I healed, and said, "Jeez, you know, I'm only four points away from getting my expert license," she said, "Excuse me?"
laughs
One
"Well, yeah, I gotta go racing." She said, "Well, I think you do, but I'm not gonna be part of that." Didn't see her again for 25 years. She went and had a great life, got married had two beautiful sons and her husband, first husband, uh passed away... way too young...of cancer, which sucked. So she was raising the boys on her own. And through some family members, just by chance, ran into me and I was divorced, on my own. And, anyhow, we hooked up and got married again and the boys have grown up and my kids have grown up, off in college and we have a great life. She's wonderful, wonderful wife! >> During the clip, you were talking about how you were a big fan of the editing of that clip. Talk about that a little bit. >> It's one of my favorite scenes in the movie. And I can take very little credit for it. We were trying to find a way to bring something more to Erik's character. He was coming off, sort of, as this workaholic, obsessive guy-- which he's not! He has a family life, and that's part of his story. And we were struggling to find a way to work that in, and just that little clip, I'm really very impressed with what Joe Sousa, my co-creator and Ethan Schwelling, our editor, did. They simply took this connection of the danger of racing and how-- They had that story, and that leads us in to the story of how he and his wife were together, came apart, came back together. It's just a really nice way of bringing that naturally into the fold of what's otherwise not a story about relationships. >> Right. No, it's a nice transition. Right. It's good-- What's your biggest challenge as a documentary filmmaker? When you set out to make film, what is the one thing that you look forward to, or you don't look forward to, and you say, "Oh, man. This is the worst part," whether it's raising money, editing, finding the story? What is it? >> I mean money's always a thing. >> Right. >> These things get expensive. On the money side, one of the concerns is that you know you're going to have to sort of depend on the kindness of your friends. You know, people working below their rates, and these kinds of things, so that can be unnerving. From a creative perspective, it's the fact that the world doesn't come in neat narratives. It doesn't come with beginnings, middles, and ends. And so, a movie like this, we start in December 2010, or sometime around then, and it could have died two weeks later. It could have been in stasis for ten years. It could have had ups and downs that were completely impossible to follow. You know, part of what a documentarian does, and what me and Joe Sousa tried to do here, was to take this really sort of complex and messy world, and try to give it to people in a way that they can digest it. But sometimes, reality and the narrative that you want to tell, are in conflict, or they're hard to get on the same page. >> You have all these professions. You give talks about the Middle East. You write Op-eds for numerous publications. You make films. Do you have a social life? I mean, you said you were married. You obviously have some type of social life. But, what's your favorite of all your professions and why? >> I mean, they all... So, my day job is as a college professor, and... >> You are the best-dressed guest that we've had here, I think! >> Oh, thanks! My wife will be-- >> Very professorial! >> My wife will be thrilled. So, you know, it's hard to pick a favorite. It's the sort of thing where... >> Would you get bored with one of them if.... >> That's kind of what I would say, is that, you know, there are advantages and limitations to these different things. Partly, I deal with media in all of my different realms. I'm making it, or I'm critiquing it, or I'm writing about it. You know, at the beginning of a documentary project, it's my favorite thing. At the end of a documentary project, being a documentarian is my favorite thing. In the middle, it's really hard, and I don't think that I could do that as a full-time, year-round profession. Partially 'cause the financial side of it is so unnerving. Partially 'cause I like teaching and I like writing and these other things are important to me. >> Yeah, it really is a privilege to make a movie 'cause as an indie filmmaker, you never know if you're going to have the opportunity to make another film. To try to get another one off the ground... It's tough. It's like, so when you actually do get to the set, you have to find a way to really embrace every second of it, even the difficult times, right? >> Absolutely, the simple notion that there are people right now watching this movie is a victory. >> Yeah. >> You know it's a tremendous victory. >> Well, let's show them a little more of The Ragged Edge. Here's another clip.
Announcer
One
: He's got to lead a few more to steal that point away and Tommy, OH! Hayden is down! Tommy tucks the front!
Crew
One
: Ohhhhh!
MT
One
: Camp, come on in. Camp, come in. Red flag.
motorcycle engine decelerating
Announcer
One
: This could help Blake Young get another good start.
Announcer 2
One
: Yeah, he's got another shot at it right here. He got a good start yesterday. Can he do it again? Looks like he got off the line pretty good.
tires speeding on track
applause
EB
One
: Go, guys! >> The racing is so close.
Crew
One
: OH!
JM
One
: Careful, careful!!! Did he just hit someone on accident? No.
EB
One
: He just went off.
Announcer 1
One
:...on the side of the May bike. Taylor Knapp having a good run here, Greg.
Announcer, Greg
One
: He is and there's an incredible story about this EBR 1190R that Taylor Knapp is riding. That's a customer bike. Customer purchased that motorcycle, $36,000 motorcycle. They pulled it off the showroom floor. Had 80 miles on the dyno. They took it here, and he's racing it. When he's done, Taylor Knapp is done this weekend, he hands it to the owner. That is an incredible story because everything on that motorcycle is exactly the way it comes off the showroom floor.
Announcer
One
: Says a lot about the bikes that Erik Buell is building these days and I think everybody is excited to see Erik back in the paddock racing here with the A-M-A, once again, very creative man.
EB:
One
Five more laps. Oh, God, I love racing days!
Team laughs
One
This is so amazing! >> So, when you make a film like this, you shot this primarily in East Troy, I would guess. You also made a film in the Middle East, Live from Bethlehem. >> That's right, yeah. >> What's the difference and what are the different challenges as a filmmaker shooting in the Middle East, as opposed to East Troy, Wisconsin? >> Well, there's a security difference, for one. That, you know-- >>
Packer fans
they can be unrulier! >> That's right! >> You're much safer in the Middle East. >> Right, right, right! You know, there are cultural differences that you need to be careful. A major, practical difference is language. This movie's in English, which makes it easier. You know, the differences are
mostly in terms of
you need to have a really intense situational awareness when you're in a country, especially one that's got some security issues. But, on the other hand, they're not so different in a lot of ways. They're both about establishing trust, about making a connection to people who are living in a culture that, on one hand, you think that you can relate to, but on the other hand, you can never fully be part of and understand. And that's just as true for me and Joe entering East Troy as it is entering Bethlehem. We might be closer here, just because of proximity, but there's similar challenges. >> When you make a film like this, and you meet these people, and you obviously speak fondly of Erik and some of the other people, what kind of bond--like do you keep in touch with them now? Is it a life-long bond? Is it like, "Wow, we're done filming. See you guys later. Thanks for everything?" >> Right, especially me. I mean, I don't make enough movies that I need to discard any old contacts, you know? So, I fully expect to keep in contact with Erik, you know. And, hopefully, with Nicki from the film, with Jason, with Boyd, who you see in there. It becomes...you know, five years is a long time. It's not like I was in their pocket the whole time, but I was there a lot. And so, they become part of your life. >> So, how often will you talk to Erik now? Is he happy with the film? >> Erik is happy with the film. He's going through some difficulties. At the moment, EBR, right as we were about to release the film, went back into receivership. >> Yeah, you mentioned that. >> And the long-term ramifications, I can't speak to. But it's a hard time for Erik. He has been very supportive of the film. It's amazing, you know. One day he just put on his Facebook page, on the EBR Facebook page, that this film was out there,and we got a thousand views of our trailer, like, you know, immediately. >> Well, based on what we've seen from Erik, I'm sure he's not done. >> I don't think so. >> They'll be another comeback, which speaks to the whole film. >> 100%, yeah. >> Well, it was great having you here, Matt. Appreciate you coming by, and talking about your film. Come back and see us again. Maybe make your third visit to Director's Cut. >> All right. Five, six years from now, I'll see you again. >> Well, thank you for watching Director's Cut. For more information on The Ragged Edge please go to
wpt.org
mostly in terms of
and click on Director's Cut. While you're there, send us an email, or find out how to submit a film. Also, don't forget to "like" WPT on Facebook, or follow us on Twitter. I'm Pete Schwaba, and remember folks, to always wear a helmet. Not just when racing...Always! We'll see you next time on Director's Cut.
EB:
mostly in terms of
There are too many small companies that people are saying, "No" to and too many big stores that they write a big check to, this big gambling check. And if it fails, it fails. And I think you need to believe more in people.
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