>> The only way I can understand how the Ganga is treated here in India, is if I think about it as a god. When you think about God, you really can't understand it. There are a lot of paradoxes that go unanswered. That's the same thing with this river. The fact that it cannot be polluted, but it's full of pollutants. The fact that it brings you to the afterlife, but you throw garbage in it. The fact that it's endlessly beautiful, but endlessly disgusting at the same time. >> If you are going to follow a river for 1500 miles, pick one that is considered a god, so hopefully you can have a little bit of help reaching the finish line. Joining us for this edition of Director's Cut is the brave traveler and co-director of "Go Ganges!" JJ Kelley. JJ, welcome to Director's Cut. >> Thank you, a pleasure to be here. >> I loved this movie. I may have a little bias, because I've been in India twice, and once just recently. But for people who haven't been to India, or haven't seen the film yet, set up the film for us. >> So, we have kind of a crazy idea. A couple years ago, we had a previous film that aired here on Director's Cut as well, called "Paddle to Seattle." For that, we built two wooden kayaks, and kayaked from Alaska to Seattle. It was through wilderness. It was remote. It was gorgeous. We thought, what if we tried to have that same kind of experience on a very populated and perhaps polluted body of water. >> Before you came up with the Ganges, were there others? Did you think about the Nile, maybe? >> We thought about the Nile. The crocs scared us a little bit. There are a croc-like species on the Ganges, but it doesn't bite. >> Who came up with this idea? >> You know, this idea really came from people that watched our previous films. We have this awesome online community of folks that give us ideas, and we try to give them content, and feedback, and forth, and it was submitted by somebody who liked what we do. >> So, you followed the river 1500 miles. Did anyone try and talk you out of it? >> My mom.
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Josh's mom, who you see in the film. Yeah, I mean, it is a very, very polluted body of water. Arguably the most polluted river in the world. We got rashes from it. We all got very sick from just interacting with a river. I don't think many people can relate to going on a canoeing trip or rowboat trip where the river actually makes you sick. But we wanted to experience that, and not necessarily judge it, but just travel the full length and learn what we could in the amount of time that we had. >> Where did your sense of adventure come from? Was that from a child, from your family? How did that develop? >> Growing up around here. I grew up in Taylor's Falls, Minnesota. I went to high school in St. Croix Falls, Wisconsin. >> You could've just done the Kickapoo. Honestly. >> That's actually... >> A shorter film, probably. All right, so you're growing up around here, sorry. >> I just spent a lot of time outside and I loved it. My mom worked for the State Park, and I used to have her drop me off at a couple towns away and I'd walk home. I went to school for environmental education at UMD up in Duluth. It really just started from there. I went up to Alaska. Josh and I met, the other guy in the film, we met on the Appalachian Trail, this six-month hiking trip from Maine to Georgia. I really have just kind of made it my life to spend as much time as I can outside. It's funny, that the more that you get into filmmaking, and the more successful you get on that front, the more time you actually spend in an office. I try to keep a nice balance these days. >> Let's take a look at another clip from "Go Ganges!" here on Director's Cut. >> This is it. It took us five days to get here from Mumbai. Then it'll all be downhill, right? >> Once we jump in this river. >> We're gonna jump in the river, or swim. Is that okay? Okay. He says it's cool. Behind me is the source of what's the most sacred river in the world, the most sacred river in the Hindu culture, the Ganga. From her glacial source, she snakes over 1300 miles from the Himalayas to the Bay of Bengal. We're gonna follow along and tell the story of India's national river. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's get in there. >> Oh, man. I don't know why we had to do this in November. >> Whoo! Oh, my god! >> How was it? >> It's not bad, JJ, it's not bad. It's refreshing. Just get in there, fella. >> Yeah! I didn't know if you'd actually jump in at the source, but it's cold as hell. Not only does is river, it's got ice on it, it's, um, the air temperature is right around freezing, too. All right, let's get some clothes on. >> The river's never going to get more pure than this. After a jump in the river, I feel great. I don't know if it's 100% fixed, but jumping in at the glacial source of the Ganga is about as a spiritual dip as you can take. >> So we made it. >> I've stood in the river, but I've never jumped in the river. How cold was it? Did you say 30-something? >> Yeah, I mean, the water itself was just around freezing, and the air temperature was in the 30s. I think folks here can relate to that. >> Yes, we can. You weren't feeling well there. That's the head of the river, right, by the head of the glacier. You weren't feeling well there. And throughout the film, you weren't feeling well. Was it the food? Was it the altitude? What was getting to you? >> Yes.
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It was a little bit of everything. The source is around 15,000 feet, so we were up there, and we went from sea level straight to that altitude very quickly, so we got altitude sickness. The river itself, once it became as putrid as it did, by the tanneries, and all the fecal matter, and industrial effluence that had poured in, we started to get rashes, respiratory infections. >> Explain that for people who don't know all the things that the river is used for. Can you tell us a little bit about that? >> It's a fascinating river. I don't think that I've ever come across a river that is more unique than the Ganges River in India, because it's considered a goddess. >> What's the name that the natives use for the river? >> Ganga. They call it the Ganga. >> That means "god," right? >> That's the name of the goddess, is the Ganga. >> Okay. >> If you believe in God, whatever you think that that is, they believe that one of the forms of God is this river. So they pray to it. They take their dead to it. They cremate their dead, sometimes they put their dead in it. They drink it. It's used for everything. >> Cows are in it. >> Everything is in it. At some points, it becomes more concentrated fecal matter than water, the concentration reaches a certain point where it just is a river of poo. >> A great place to travel. >> It is. It was fun. It was very fascinating. But to see the love the people had-- I met a man at the end of the river, and he hadn't eaten for a couple days. He was just there to pray to the Ganga. I said, do you want some food, you know, I'll get you some food if you're hungry right now. >> Canned cheese. >> Some canned cheese. We can get some curry. >> He said, no, I've got the Ganges. I've got the Ganga to sustain me, and all he drank was the Ganges water. >> Ugh! I've stood in it. I won't drink it. How did you transform this love of the outdoors to filmmaking? How did that transition happen? You know, it was a really amazing transition, and I feel so fortunate for the people that were around me that helped me make that. One you're going to meet in a little while, our producer and editor, Ben. He helped shaped an idea that we had years ago about making a film of biking across Alaska, along the Haul Road, where they bring crude oil from Prudhoe Bay. So we made a film. It was during my last year at UMD in Duluth. I gave that film to National Geographic, and I said, "Can I get an internship?" I didn't know anybody there. It was out in Washington, DC. I'd only been to Washington once. They said-- They watched it. Apparently, the Natural History unit sat down and watched it, and they liked it. They gave me an internship. I've been lucky and fortunate enough to work with them on various projects for the last seven years. Right now, I'm a producer with National Geographic. We still make time to do these films that really feed our soul. >> You mentioned the one film with biking. For part of your journey, you were on the rickshaw, the bicycle rickshaw. Which part scared you the most, where you thought you were going to die the most, the rickshaw, the water, or the scooter? >> This film is fun, because we did travel by any means possible down the Ganges River. That rickshaw was scary. It was extremely scary, because we saw these huge trucks that were barreling by. We saw overturned trucks. We saw trucks on fire. They came within inches of us every five minutes. Our cameraman, Dave, was on this rickshaw, as well. So the rickshaw itself starts out at about 200 pounds. Then you get three, heavy, big guys on it, so you're looking at about, with camera equipment, with our camping equipment, about 1,000 pounds. There are no gears on this bike. We're traveling through rural, very remote India. >> Bad roads. >> Bad roads. >> Let's take a look at another clip from "Go Ganges!" >> Yeah, done. Done. >> I wonder, like a tarp? A plastic cover? >> Plastic cover, yeah. >> Ah, that's good. You guys want to do a melon? >> Yeah. >> This boat is heavy. There's probably about 15 of us on it right now, and I guess it weighs well over 300 pounds. >> We loaded all of our supplies in for what may be two weeks of unsupported travel on the Ganga. >> We have no idea what we're in for, but we've got all of our food. We should be okay. >> I'm really excited right now. Now we can actually be on the water. We'll see you again in Kanpur some day. With a good story, I hope. >> Ganga! >> Be on the water, or whatever it was at the time you were floating on, whatever that was below you. Sometimes water, sometimes other things. As you're traveling, you're prepared for traveling the best you can be. You got your shots. You've got some food. What about filmmaking? What were you, was there anything you weren't prepared for? Because, as you said, you're on the rickshaw, you're on the water, all these ways. That's hard enough to do alone, let alone to document it. What did you run into there? >> As a filmmaker, this was a very fun project to work on, because Josh works in television. He works for a cable television network, and I work for a cable television network. And a lot of the shows that we do are pretty scripted before go out there, even classic documentaries, adventure documentaries, conservation documentaries. You have a good idea of what you're going to film. >> And probably some more crew. >> Exactly. So, you're a big unit that's moving through, and it's like a big cruise ship. But when we do a trip like this, it is like being on a little row boat, or where you can zip in and out of places. Our thesis was to travel the Ganges. We didn't know how we'd do it, or what we'd see. That was really refreshing for us as filmmakers, to just be able to go. >> You had Dave working camera for you, director of photography, or as you called him, "guy who held the camera." Did he run into problems with the technical aspect? >> Well, the thing that I love about filmmaking today, is that it's really accessible for almost anybody. I think to be a good filmmaker today, you have to be able to shoot, you have to be able to produce. You should get sound. You should be able to edit. You should watch what you shoot every day. That flexibility now allows most young people, or anybody that wants to make film to be able to do all that. >> That's great if you're at your house, your parent's house, or your garage. But what if you're sleeping by the side of a river? Where did you get power from? Just had plenty of batteries, places to charge? >> Places to charge. We had a little bit of solar. We had sound equipment that failed. We had folks that were coming up to us with soldering kits, and they were soldering. >> And helping you out, as they helped you out with the bike tire, sort of. >> Sort of. >> What did you learn about the people of India along the way? >> So amazing, so gracious and warm. It blew me away that we would be traveling in a remote part of India, and we would have 40 people that are just following us. We'd be on this rickshaw, and we would draw a scene. We didn't put out any press releases, although we were in the national paper four times. Because people would just see us, and they'd say what are these guys doing? We'd always say we want to see the Ganges clean; we want to see it healthy; we think it's a beautiful river. That would all be lost in translation. We'd have these articles translated, and it would just say, "Americans have passion for rickshaw." >> That's the other thing you were talking about before the show, is that you started out to make this trip, but now the environmental aspect, that people are noticing the film because of that, and it may be helping the river. >> It's really been fun to see how our kind of brand of storytelling that's not over the top, you know, we do these big trips that I think almost anybody could do. I mean, this isn't something that probably anybody would want to do, but little bits and pieces of it. >> Not everybody could do this. >> No, I think going on a river and going for a paddle, I mean, we're not going down Class 5 rapids, it's just a long time to be out there. >> No, but you had to be strong. Your will, you had to be determined, because you faced some challenges. >> That's true. But I think the best way where you can acclimate is while you're actually doing it, just kind of start slow. People asked us how we got ready to hike the Appalachian Trail, which is six months of walking. The best way I think is just to start walking. >> You want to look at another clip? >> Yeah. >> That's good, 'cause so do I. Here's another clip from "Go Ganges!" >> Everything just gets dumped in the river. There's garbage. There's human bodies. There's dead animals. I guess it can't be that dirty, huh? Dolphins are swimming around. >> One of the ways the Ganga will not be sustained is from irrigation. She's the only river that passes through here, and because of that, a lot of farmers pull water from her. As you've seen, it's a small river already, so you wonder how much of this it could really take. >> Nice... >> So whatcha got here...?
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>> They're washing the body there. >> It looks like they're washing the body. This is probably one of the few rivers in the world where if you see floating human corpses, you don't have to call the police. Dead bodies will just be put in the Ganga. And it's like going to Nirvana. It's like going to Heaven, taking you to a spiritual afterworld. It's like the River Styx. It's a very beautiful concept, except the fact that there are human bodies in the river. >> JJ looking very comfortable in that clip. Through the magic of CGI, we produced another guest. Bed Gottfried joins us, producer/editor on "Go Ganges!" Did I get that correct? >> Yes. >> Welcome to Director's Cut. >> Thank you. >> How much footage did these guys give you, and did you look at it and go, or is that just what you expected? >> There was about 33 hours total. Actually, that seemed a lot more manageable than the previous film we worked on together, "Paddle," that was about 65 hours. So this was nothing, by comparison. >> Tell me about the editing process. You were in charge of the editing, but were the guys there with you, or did you just lock them out and say I'm going to do what I want? >> A little bit of both, actually. They came to help set things up with the footage and organize it, and kind of give me some direction, and then went to their separate places, and I got to get busy working on it and start shaping the story. Then they would come back at a couple points, and collaborate and kind of give some feedback. Then I'd finish it up. >> In the old days, people used to have to be there in the editing suite. Were you able now, with people being in different parts of the country, to send them the rough cuts and get feedback that way, and work on it that way? >> Yeah, we did some of that this time around. I'd upload a cut or a scene, or something like that. It really is best when you can all be in the same room. We did that a couple weekends over the six months or so we cut it. >> The process of editing for you, do you fast cut, do you slow cut? What was your method of working? >> Well, for me, I like to get familiar with the footage first, so I go through all of it. As I'm watching all 33 hours, I'll just lay out the pieces that I think are useful. In this case, it ended up being about 14 hours that I strung out. Then from there, I just keep bringing it down, and bringing it down, and shaping the story that way. >> Then, there are some outtakes. There's a scene where there's a bombing. I don't remember what town you were in. What town were you in? >> That was in Varanasi. >> How did that happen that that didn't make the final cut? Was that a conversation that you guys had? Why did that end up on the outtakes? >> Yeah, it was a very random experience when we were in Varanasi. There was a conflict between Hindu and Muslim, and there was a bombing. We were the first people on the ground, and we felt that we had cameras, this could be news, we want to document it. So we documented it from more of a journalistic approach. It didn't make it in the film. It is one of the web extras, and it's a DVD extra, I believe, as well. It just felt a little bit out of line with the rest of the film that's this kind of this adventure. The fact that we documented it more as journalists, and less of a storyteller, it just didn't quite feel authentic to the style that we had going at that point. >> I think it was a mutual decision. I cut it down, and we all watched it, and I thought, we kind of agreed that yeah, it just didn't have a place in the story. >> There are some times later in the film where, you know, you guys are tired, and you're close to the end. But you keep your sense of humor through the whole thing. How did that happen? Is that just you and Josh? Or, how did you make that happen? >> I feel like I'm the luckiest person in the world when I get to go on a trip like this, even though, you know, we're sick, we're beat up, it's hard. You know, the alternatives, you know, for me, it really, the adventure outweighs that. I really feel so fortunate when I can go off to a new part of the world and experience things kind of on the fly. >> I would see you keeping your sense of humor and Josh getting a little, you know, I could see it weighing on him a little more. Did he ever turn to you and go, stop, you're not funny? >> Well, no, I would say that to him a lot of the times, you're not funny. No, I think it was hard for Josh. Our personalities, we get along really well. >> Right, you seem to balance very well. >> Exactly. Very loquacious, very gregarious most of the time, having fun. But seeing the river get hammered like that, seeing something that was so beautiful at the source, look so disgusting and putrid, and something that you didn't even want to touch at the end, you know, it really kind of brought us down. It really brought Josh down. Not because he was having a hard time, although that was true. It was just to see this body of water. >> Let's hear what one of the people of India think about the river. Here's another clip from "Go Ganges!" >> You have come all the way from U.S.? >> Alaska. >> Alaska, okay. I'm telling you, anybody who's an Indian, who's born in India, right from the birth to his upbringing, right from the rituals that happens in the birth, and death of an individual over here in this country, they come to River Ganges. I belong to a very ritualized, spiritual world. And this river is a God to me. This is God. I can see this. The love that I have for this Ganges, I don't have words to say. Everybody's educated why Ganges is being polluted. Everybody's worried. My mother who is 80 years of age, she's worried. >> Are you worried? >> I am worried, but you know, it is actually the poverty. >> Poverty? >> Poverty, which is the reason. You people are from a rich place. But in poverty, no human civilization, which can, which has the capacity to pollute this river. There are so many pollutions which are coming in the river, but over the course of time, it all gets clean. I think that is what this is. >> Thank you so much. >> Wish you all the best. >> All right, thank you. This looks like a good fix. Let's take a look. Everybody loves the Ganga. It's the happiest I've seen people in this country, is when they're on this river. >> People helping you along the way on your 1500-mile trek. I bet when they were helping you, they didn't want money. >> It was funny, the people that did want money ended up sabotaging us to some extent. >> They wanted more money. >> We had our cycle rickshaw, and this guy came along and he insisted we had a flat tire and that he would help us. He ended up putting at least ten new holes in the tube. He demanded money. Then this other man came along with a patch kit. >> And fixed it, and said no, and didn't want anything. They're very gracious people. Ben, in the editing process, people don't understand how important it is. Can you tell us a little bit about that? I mean, everyone, the director. The director, blah, blah, blah. But talk about how important editing is. >> Well, speaking as an editor, I think it's the most important part. But I'm a little biased. >> Of course you are. >> But really, I think, especially working on these kinds of projects, where you know, to their credit, they trust me enough to just kind of turn over the material and let me. >> Because you know the material and you know them. >> So, you know, I think on a documentary, the story is kind of there, but that's really where it all takes shape, is in the editing. That's what I appreciate most about the whole process, is being able to be that kind of creative force. >> We honestly didn't even need JJ here, if you think about it. >> No. >> I'll leave! >> You're going to leave in about a minute anyway. What's next for both of you? What are you working on? >> Well, we just finished paying off the bills. We're a little, small production company, so this one is in the can now, and we're thinking about what's next. Our production company is starting to make content for National Geographic. We have a web series coming out. A lot of networks are trying to a TV version and a web version of an idea, so we're working on that. Another adventure is in the works. >> Ben, what are you working on? >> Right now, I'm just teaching, hanging out at my day job. >> Will you two work together on another project, and will Josh be there, as well? >> Yes. >> If they let me, I would be happy to. >> With your relationship with Nat Geo, how do you work that? Because you work for them, and you're doing your side projects. Are you saying like, hey guys, we could use a little help here, you know, for the next film? >> A little bit. You know, every time I do one of these films, I quit, essentially. It's been amazing to see that by taking that risk, I usually come back with a better job than when I left. Because when your hobby is filmmaking, and when your profession is filmmaking, and it's kind of all that you do, then I think people respect that. >> We should tell people, we've got to go, but we should tell people the name of your company, you and Josh. >> We're Dudes on Media. >> It's Dudesonmedia.com, or something comparable? >> Absolutely. >> That's the place to check out for information on all the films you've done. Ben, where can people find you? >> I'm at BenGottfried.com. >> Those are excellent websites, by the way. Thanks for coming, guys. >>
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Thank you. >> Thanks for watching. For more information on "Go Ganges!" please visit our website at wpt.org and click on Director's Cut. We'll see you next time here on Director's Cut. >> You want to have the proper signage, so when a semi is barreling toward you, it says, hey, wait, I should stop. Safety.
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