>> She said you wouldn't open the door. What's with that? >> I didn't know it was her. Through the peephole, all I could see was here knuckle. She had laundry packed past her head. >> Ludlow! Did it sound like her knuckles? >> Maybe. >> I'm doin' that laundry for us, Ludlow, for extra money. >> She squeezes my cheeks. She's a cheek squeezer! >> I need the work and she needs to drop off her laundry. >> She's the anti-Christ! >> Ludlow. You pull these games and we lose the income, you're gonna run out of Twinkies lickety split. I'm serious. This is me being serious. You see me being serious? >> I see your forehead getting all wrinkled. >> Hi, welcome to Director's Cut. I'm Pete Schwaba, and that was a clip from Love, Ludlow, a feature film about a New York City girl trying to make a relationship work despite the efforts of her misfit brother. We're joined today by the film's writer/producer, David Paterson. David, welcome to Director's Cut. >> It's great to be here. >> Good to have you. I used the word "misfit," because you have, this movie, is kind of a throwback in its dialogue. You've got a Murphy bed in there, hairstyles, even the characters' names, Myra and Ludlow. Was that a conscious effort to go old-school with this? >> Yeah, I mean, I'm old. I may look young, but I'm about 114 years old. >> You look pretty old.
laughter
>> So, I guess my humor was always based on, I don't want to say gentlemanly humor, but you know, it was never crass. That's why some of the words are quirky in the film. >> You've got a scene in there where a guy calls someone a card, I think. >> Yes. >> I love that. >> So it is kind of, I guess you would say old-school humor. In fact, you mentioned the Murphy bed. The original title was "Fingerpainting in a Murphy Bed." >> I read that, yeah. >> But when we were going to make it into a film, everybody was like, "What's a Murphy bed?" No one knew what a Murphy bed was. I'm like, you know, a wall bed. >> Google it. >> Exactly. But fingerpainting in a wall bed just doesn't really, it isn't funny. So we changed it to the title name. I also had aspirations for foreign sales, and they said, again, in the foreign world, no one is going to know what a Murphy bed is. So, we just changed it to "Love, Ludlow," which pretty much translates to any language. >> International wall bed. >> Or in Japan,
imitates speaking Japanese
. You know. >> So you started as a playwright. Talk about that process, as opposed to screenwriting. Is that a good place to start for a screenwriter, or is that kind of a tough transition to make? >> Well, depending on what artists you talk to, because a lot of screenwriters don't like dialogue, or they find it to be the most difficult aspect of writing a screenplay, whereas that's pretty much all what a play is. You know, basically you say, they enter the living room. And they're talking in the living room until they leave. >> Right. >> And also with plays, it's very static. Usually, it is just one or two locations. So, lots of time, screenwriters have a little bit more issue expanding upon dialogue. So, you see a lot of great screenwriters have some experience with plays, or actually began as playwrights. One thing in respect to Love, Ludlow, that also began as a play. So, I knew my biggest challenge was to get a lot of the characters to shut up, actually. Because playwrights love to hear themselves. And that's through dialogue. If you look at films, there is dialogue in many scenes, but as you know, as a screenwriter, rarely does a scene go for more than two or three pages, whereas in a play, it can go for 15 or 20. >> Speaking of which, let's see another clip from Love, Ludlow.
elevator bell dings
>> Hold it! Hold it! >> Hey, Storkelson. >> Reggie, Reggie, Reggie Reggie! You shoulda stayed out with us last night, man. You missed a great night. >> Yeah?
I stayed out till 11
00. >> What are you, Mormon? I mean, that's twilight, man. That's like when the freaks come out. Why do you think I'm gettin' in so late? >> Why? >> Let's just say there were four feet in my bed this morning, and only two of 'em were mine...
indistinct
I stayed out till 11
My god!
sighs
I stayed out till 11
Ah! >> Congratulations. >>...in the parking lot, this chick had a balcony that you could do Shakespeare from, I'm not kidding you...
indistinct
I stayed out till 11
>> Can you do this please? >> Uh-oh! Homemade brownies for me? >> No. >> She speaks! Been here two weeks, and this first word I've gotten from you. >> Then memorize it. "No" is the only response you're getting from me. >> But I-- >> No. >> Uh-- >> No. No! Now go away. I know all about you. >> Temps. >> You want a piece of me? >> No. I'm unarmed. I'm just dropping off a file. I'm leaving. In peace. >> We're back with David Paterson, the writer/producer of Love, Ludlow. You're also kind of a big fat Hollywood writer, too. You wrote Bridge to Terabithia. Talk a little bit about the differences and challenges of writing a big studio film, and your story about how you became a part of that project is great, too. >> I think the basic thing is, the larger the budget, the more headaches that are involved. Also, the larger the budget, the more the writer goes, well, where's my cut? >> Right, as they should. >> But you know, with independent film, obviously, it's a little easier to track how much money you lost. With a larger film, when you track, you know, in the public trade, how much the movie made, it's like, well, where's my cut. >> Right. >> So, as we discussed, not on this show, sometimes you sort of have to know what you're getting into to begin with. As a writer, and not a writer/director, you're always limited, in certain respects, of when the film's going to get made, or how it's going to get made. Actually, when and how it's going to get made. There's a level of blind trust that's involved. You know, a novelist will always own their material. A playwright will always own their material. A screenwriter is giving up their material to make it into art by committee. So, you have to know that going into it that there will be a point that you're not the writer/director, that you'll be giving away certain controls. And even as a writer/producer, I realize it's kind of bipolar, because generally the writers are like, that producer is going to ruin my film, and the producer is like, we've got to get rid of this writer, he's gonna drive us crazy. >> Which, on Bridge to Terabithia, you were producer/writer, as well. >> Yes, I was, which again, you know, the fact is that I made sure that I was attached as a producer, because I was sure they'd get rid of me as the writer as soon as the ink dried, which is what they did. >> That's a great story, too. Tell that story about when you found out. >> Well, I insisted to be attached as both the writer and producer, because I know how Hollywood works. The average film has seven writers, and I knew they weren't going to ask me to write seven times. >> Right. >> So, I suspected there could be a chance that I would be cut at some point in the process. What I didn't know, is my first meeting in LA, at a table with 12-15 other people, first thing on the agenda was talking about the new writer. There was a painful pause, where everyone looked at me as I gulped, and someone said, please tell me they told David he's been replaced. And of course, no one had. So, they're like, David, you've been replaced. But he's a great, terrific writer, and I'll think he'll be very happy with his work. >> He's much better than you, so as a producer, you should respect this decision. >> Well, he's made several Hollywood films. >> Yeah, right. >> So, the kicker, of course, was they hired an additional writer after that, and brought me back at the end to fix things. >> I love that. How did you become involved with that project, Bridge to Terabithia? >> Well, Bridge to Terabithia was written by this terrific gal who happens to be my mother. >> That's a good in. >> Some people know that, but what a lot don't know is the book is actually based on me, when I was young. There was a tragedy that befell our family, that my mother wrote this story, more out of therapy than anything else. She never thought it would be as successful as it became as a book. So that put a lot of pressure on me, as the writer and producer, not to mess it up. >> No kidding. >> Because otherwise, the holidays would be rather uncomfortable with my family and brothers and sisters. It actually took me 17 years to get the movie made. >> Boy, that's unbelievable. >> Because, I was offered a lot of money over the time, but they wanted me to have nothing to do with the project. And because of the close proximity of the story and the family, I had to hang on as long as I could. Well, you made another great movie called Love, Ludlow, and let's see another clip from that right now. >> Now, there's this guy at work-- >> I'm not gonna have enough red to finish this... >> Stop interrupting me! >> You said that already! >> Pick that up! Now, Ludlow! His name is Reggie. We're gonna catch a flick. >> In the city? >> No, around here! Mrs. Fernster says she can check on you. >> She smells like old fish! >> Look, Lud, it's been such a long time since I've had a gentleman even look at me. >> But they're all stupid. >> Well, we know that, but they don't. >> Reggie is a retarded name. >> Let's give Reggie the retard the benefit of the doubt, okay? >> When you going out with him? >> Well, I thought tonight seemed pretty good. >> Tonight? >> We can put the TV in the bedroom. I won't be out long. There's chicken in the oven, and I'll mix you some Ovaltine. >> But tomorrow's Saturday! Did you forget tomorrow's Saturday? >> Yeah, well, now that you mention it, it is. >> You didn't mention Ricky before tonight. You didn't even consult me. >> C'mon, this is important for me. I need somethin'. >> You've got me. >> I know, and that's great. But, I just can't explain it. Look, Lud? I'm gonna do it. Don't ruin it for me, okay? You know you're my number one guy. >> I wanna take a nap. >> All right. Use my bed. I got stuff to do out here. Take the TV with you. And I'll finish fixin' your dinna. >> Getting ready for Micky? >> Ricky! >> Reggie. >> Right. >> This is a pretty small film, from a location standpoint. How do you, as a writer/producer, avoid, you know, making it claustrophobic? >> Well, again, as we pointed out earlier, this actually just took place in the living room as a play. >> Right. >> The fact is, film is a visual medium, and I knew I wasn't doing My Dinner with Andre...
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I stayed out till 11
with Love, Ludlow, so I knew it had to be expanded. I knew that the audience, after a few minutes, would start to get fidgety. So, in the play, of course, she refers to meeting Reggie at the office, so I went, okay, well we now have the office. Then also referencing, in the play, that they went out for dinner. So, literally, I started to pick apart the play to see how I could expand it. But also, I'm a cheap son of a gun, so I knew filming it, I'm like what locations can I get for free, that I don't have to pay for. The funny thing is, the two places I had to pay for were the laundromat and the cemetery, because apparently, everyone's dying to get into a cemetery. Can we do a rim shot? >> You did not just say that!
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I stayed out till 11
>> But cemeteries are very demanding. Either they don't let you shoot at all, out of respect to the deceased, or they charge up the wazoo for it. >> Then they don't really care about the deceased. >> No, not at all. >> How much you gonna pay me? Come on in. >> It's like it's fine, just pay me the cash, be quiet. >> Was the scene by the ocean in the play, too? >> No. >> Okay. >> That really opened it up, I thought. That was a great scene. >> Actually, that was one of the producer's recommendations. They're like, maybe we can go down to the beach. >> What are the challenges in shooting a film with such a small budget, in a city like New York, that's so expensive? Is it just that, locations? Or what other problems? >> Actually, locations in New York are free. The problem is making sure that somebody doesn't walk onto the set and walk off with something, you know. It's really, you know, and also when you are-- I knew we would have trouble finding a railroad apartment, which is very common in New York City. So, I built one. I went to the local Home Depot and asked them if they would consider supporting the burgeoning film industry by contributing to my film in exchange for credit. They said we won't give you any money. I said, well, how about lumber? And so, the entire, this is supposedly a fourth-floor walk up apartment. It was actually built in the basement of a church. >> Really? So, that's a set. >> Yes. >> I didn't have any idea. >> But you know, we cheat, because you see her going up the stairs and down the stairs. But in fact, it was in a basement the whole time. >> Wow. >> And I built that primarily myself, over six weeks leading up to the shoot. Again, not so I could brag about it, but so I didn't have to pay anyone to do it. >> You're more proud of your producorial skills than your carpentry work. >> Exactly. >> What are the advantages of shooting in New York? I would think one would be cast, and the access you have to actors. But are there-- And the flavor, I guess, but what do you think? You're the New Yorker. >> I have to say, and whoever's from LA will be annoyed with this, but I think New York crews are top rate, because there is so much independent film in New York, that a lot of these guys worked on films for no money. There's a lot of talented crew members who aren't union, who will work because they like the project. >> Yeah. >> So you really have almost a bottomless access to really talented people who, A) you don't have to pay much, or B) they like the project so much, they're willing to take a cut. You know, we shot the majority of it in the apartment, of course. Then also, we shot some spots on Long Island in my community, where I live, because I'm a fireman, so people know me, and so I could get a lot of stuff for free. >> Yeah, that always helps in Indie films. >> Any way you can cut corners, exactly. >> Let's see another clip from Love, Ludlow. >> So much for charming your socks off with a night at the theater. Ah, excuse me. I think I ordered home fries. >> Those are fries. >> Yeah, but they're French-- >> You don't like them? >> It's okay. >> Hang on a minute. >> He said, it's okay. >> Mustache Sammy, I don't see you sittin' here. The man ordered home fries. Get him his friggin' home fries! >> My name is not Mustache Sammy. >> I didn't think it was ### Arnie either, so I chose the latter. Can you believe that? >> You know, it's New York. >> No, no, it's rude. Talk about rude. >> Excuse me, are these home fries? >> Yeah. >> You just cut up and mushed the French Fries! >> No, I didn't. >> Yes, you did. >> I got them from the chef in the kitchen. >> You never went back there! >> Yes, I did! >> Ya know what? It's gonna be a cryin' shame if I gotta tell my uncle, a city fire marshal, that I had an awful time here. Especially since Code C in the city health regulation states specifically that a waiter who doesn't give his customer exactly what he wants is gonna get fired. Now am I talkin' through glass here or are you focused? >> I'm focused. >> Now, get this fella his gosh damn home fries. When he gets back I wouldn't touch those fries if I were you.
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I stayed out till 11
>> I wouldn't mess with her. You got a great cast. Talk about your cast. >> Well, again, that was, being a nobody, it was finding a casting director who could be able to reach out to them. You know, the toughest thing is actually getting to any talented actors, having to go through their agent. >> People, yeah. >> Because the agent doesn't want someone to do a Love, Ludlow. There is no money in it. >> For the agent. >> For the agent, exactly. >> Yeah, let me get right on that. >> Actually, there are lots of times that if they have a manager, sometimes, it's better to go to the manager, because the managers, who also want to make money, they also have a feeling that they also want to be the friend of the actors, and like, okay, you've been looking for a meaty part. Here's a really meaty part for you. So, we'll do all these junky TV, whatever, but you know, this will be a short shoot. I think this was 18 days. So, they're like, well, you can do that, we'll make you happy, and then will you take this crap I've been trying to shove down your throat this whole time? >> Do me a favor. >> Yes, because I have to eat as well. >> Yeah. >> So, a smart manager, and a smart agent would do that, too, is look for the projects that won't take them away from other projects. Because the role of Reggie, who I'm very happy with David Eigenberg. We actually went after some bigger names at the time. It literally was getting through the agent was just really, really tough. Then, once you've got to the agents, they usually made demands that you couldn't possibly reach, so it was just like no, this is the money, this is the way it is, and if you're not interested. >> You had Stallone pegged as Ludlow, didn't you? >> We did.
imitating Stallone
I stayed out till 11
He was awful.
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I stayed out till 11
>> So, you mentioned you are a fire fighter. You're also the parks commissioner where you live. And you're a filmmaker and a stay-at-home dad. >> I'm a stuntman, you left out the stuntman. >> A stuntman, that's right. So, do all those other endeavors help the writing process? >> Absolutely. I mean, you meet characters all over the place. >> I bet. >> So, you know, I think I told you at another point, I like to write in public, so you can just steal from people. I like to write in bars, and you know, there's white noise, but also occasionally, you hear just some great dialogue. So I am a thief, I guess if we want to cut to the chase there. >> Thief of humanity. >> But no, having, you know, I speak at a lot of film festivals. Having a well-rounded life can really, really help you. If you're just insulated by other artists, how are you going to really get to know cops and fireman and plumbers and butchers, and all that. >> Right. Butchers, another throwback, I love it.
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I stayed out till 11
>> They still use that phrase, right? There are butchers, right? >> They've got to be out there somewhere. Let's see another clip from Love, Ludlow. >> Oh, my God! Lud, where have you been? >> Been out. >> I didn't know what to do! Are you okay? Oh God, I gotta call Lenny's gramma and tell him you're home. >> You really had your sister scared. >> Boo. >> Being a smart ### doesn't help. >> Thought it was my strong point. >> Where have you been? >> Outside. On the stairs. One landing up. >> The whole time. And you think that this is the way to treat family? Your only family? >> Reg-- >> The reason why we came back here was because she was thinking about you. And that's how you thank her? >> Reggie, I can handle this. >> Than handle it for Christ sake, and don't reward him for this stunt. >> Excuse me? >> He was sitting out on the landing the whole time. He had to have heard you. What kind of sick-- >> Reginald! This is not your issue! >> I know, but-- >> So back off. We can take care of this, this is a family thing. >> So don't touch her thing. >> Shut up! >> Hey! Stop it! Don't you ever address him like that! >> Myra-- >> You have no right to talk to my brother that way. >> What about your rights, Myra? He's playing you like a puppet! >> It's none of your Goddamn business! You don't know nothin' about me or my brother. >> So, let me ask you something. Why didn't you direct this? Is there a reason, or is there a reason you haven't directed yet? Is that by choice? >> Choice is an interesting term. It really is that I want to direct. I really want to direct. However, with both Ludlow and Bridge, it was a business decision of, can I get this done. >> Yeah. >> And I knew if I was in the director's chair, people might not be picking up the actors from the train station, or making sure Craft Services delivered. You know, as a producer, you wear a thousand different hats. So, I knew that I couldn't do all three, but I wanted to make a movie. >> Right. >> In respect to the studio, I said, well, I want to direct it. And they're like, well, you've never directed anything, so no. You know, I do want to direct. But it was a business decision to get the films made. >> Spoken like a good producer. >> Yeah, I guess so. >> Right, I'm just saying. So, why do you think, you know, we've both worked for the studios now. Why do you think the writer is less respected? Obviously, you have a tremendous amount of respect for directors. They're ultimately responsible for everything. But why are writers lower? I love the story you told me one time about going to Sundance. Your film is there, the granddaddy of them all, and you couldn't go to the parties, because it's only directors. >> Yes, I was locked out, because it was for you know, the actors and directors. I remember when they were giving away swag, I went to the swag table, and the director and actors all got something. As I reached for it, the girl said, "Who are you?" I said, "I'm the writer." She goes, "It's for talent only." I'm sorry, you can't have it. >> It's like, where's my table? >> I think it cuts back to what we talked about earlier, is people look at a novelist as an artist, a playwright as an artist. I know this is PBS, but a screenwriter is looked at as a whore, because your primary goal is to get paid, not to hold onto your art. So I think that's the way the business looks at it. It's like, why do you care about your art. We're paying you to go away, basically. Now, that's not the same to a writer/director, because you're not going away. >> Right. >> But as a writer, you are there solely to get paid, to give something to someone, for them to make better. >> And then go away. >> And then go away. >> But that's crazy, because if you don't have a script, you know, there's nothing to direct or produce. It's like, we need a script. At least you can read something to be entertained. But that's just, hopefully that'll change. >> Hollywood, the independent film business, but Hollywood in general, is love your idea, now here's what's wrong with it. >> Yeah. >> They always, I don't think, I've never heard them say, this script is brilliant, we are shooting this script. What it is, is good start. >> Yeah, we'll take it from here. >> We can fix it. >> That's great. Well, hey, it's been great having you on the show today, David. >> It's great to be here. >> Thanks for coming. >> Thanks for having me. >> And thank you for watching Director's Cut. For more information on Love, Ludlow, please go to wpt.org and click on Director's Cut. I'm Pete Schwaba, it is now my mission in life to bring back the Murphy bed. We'll see you next time on Director's Cut. >> I heard that it takes more muscles to frown than smile. >> It's how I work out.
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