Director's Cut

>> I know this trick. See, what you do is you go into a bar, you order a couple tap beers. You just nurse 'em. You know like for show. Meantime, we start daring each other to do shots of bitters. >> Bitters? >> Yeah, you know the #### they put in cocktails. Like Old Fashioneds and ####. >> It got alcohol in it? >> Yeah. It's 80 proof. I mean they keep it up there with the Tabasco sauce and the Worcestershire sauce, you know like a condiment, but you know. It's 80 proof. You can get drunk off it. >> Hi, welcome to Director's Cut. I'm Pete Schwaba and that was a clip from Sawdust City; a film about two brothers searching for their father in the taverns of Eau Claire, Wisconsin. We're joined today by the film's writer, producer, editor, lead actor, and director, David Nordstrom. David welcome to Director's Cut. >> Thank you. >> Sandwich maker? You made sandwiches too? >> Yes. Sandwiches and-- >> You were your own Best Boy, I assume? >> I drove a few trucks.

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>> You got to do it all in the indie world. >> Yeah, hung some equipment. >> Well, tell us-- is that true about the bitters by the way? I will assume you're not misleading us, okay? >> It is. No. I still pull that old weave at bars, especially in other parts of the country, where I don't know if they're-- >> It's more expensive. >> -- they're hip to it, but, yeah. There's actually a bar I think in-- I think it might be in Door County, or something, where they only serve bitters. Or they serve it as a shot.

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>> I forget the name of the place. Who've thrown away all hope, I would assume.

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>> Yeah. >> So, tell us, where does this story come from? >> Well, I think it was kind of a-- it started to take root after I'd moved from Wisconsin to Southern California to go to grad school. And I'd come home and visit periodically, and mostly around Christmas time, holiday time, wintertime. And, of course, there's this really great, you know, difference between those two spots where I was living and I would meet up with family when I was back there. I actually have not just one brother, but three brothers, so... >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. There would be kind of different conglomerations of us at home at the same time and I think it really stems from one New Year's Day, we got tired of going out at night on New Year's Eve. So we went out on New Year's Eve day and the bars in Eau Claire-- I think it's still true-- but for a long time they're open all night on New Year's Eve. It gets a little bit dire late at night, and so we decided to go out during the day with a friend of ours. And we just decided that instead of driving, we'd walk from tavern to tavern in town. >> Is it loaded responsibly?

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>> Yeah, exactly. And along the way we kind of got into a long sort of conversation of combing over the past and talking about people who weren't there and all that, those sorts of traditional things and it just kind of-- they just felt like this kind of organic narrative that was unfolding that I thought was really interesting. And so once I had that idea, I kind of tried to take care of it really quickly. We didn't spend much money on the movie, so it was sort of a short production schedule. And so, I think, from conception to being finished was maybe like six months. >> Wow. >> So, yeah. >> An indie pace. That's good. It sounds like you got the brother relationship thing down, too, that dynamic. If you got that many brothers in real life... >> Yeah, yeah. >> Let's see another clip from Sawdust City. >> Do you know Charlie Church in here who comes in? >> Yeah, I know him pretty well. How do you know him? >> Uh, he's my dad. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Here sit down. Get you something to drink. >> When was the last time you saw him? >> Maybe a week ago. At the Dan bar. You know where that is? >> My brother might know. I don't really know. >> You don't? >> No. Yeah. >> Yeah. I hear he hangs out there a fair amount. I haven't seen him in a while. He's put up with a lot of #### I'll tell you.

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There's this one time your parents were, oh... They going through a kind of a difficult patch financially, you know. And she sends him out with-- >> I got to go call Carly. Just get me a beer. >> Had a certain amount of money that they needed to spend on groceries, you know... and, uh...

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...guy comes back. He's got this big shopping bag, but it's not full of groceries. It's full of Cheez Whiz and porn. That's all the guy buys.

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>> I thought she was going to kill him, but you know. Your mom, she just kind of rolled with it.

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Oh, man.

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>> That's-- you definitely captured the "Wisconsin small town bar" feel there. Talk a little bit about your cast. Did you do a lot of casting in local actors or...? >> Yeah, a guy like that you don't fly in from LA, do 'ya, for...? >> No. Strangely enough, he's a trained actor who had spent some time in LA, but was living back in Eau Claire. I've known him since I was a kid and some of the cast members and some of the locals are people like that I've known for a long time, and other were people that I met in the process of setting the project up. And I would say that apart from two scenes, where we had to cast actors who are LA-based and we needed to shoot their scenes there, because we couldn't afford to fly them to Eau Claire. We shot a couple of scenes in California bars and cheated the exteriors. >> Oh, nice work. I didn't even catch that. That's-- >> Yeah, I forget that now. I have a kind of a warped memory of what the actual bars looked like. Yeah, but the rest of the people were locals. A lot of times, the people I met in the process of kind of going around from bar to bar and spending some time there, and meeting the regulars. And, I mean everyone was so generous and so ready. I mean sometimes it just took them a little bit of warming up. >> Right. >> To kind of see that we weren't some wacko California guys coming in and then they saw how small scale it was too. It was not your typical-- even like modest independent shoot, where you got a couple of trucks, you know, and people with Secret Service ear pieces and all that. >> Right. >> It was just seven dudes and a van and, you know, my mom with sandwiches. >> It's either independent film or borderline creepy.

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>> Yeah, yeah. >> But then it makes them probably not demand too much and just be happy to be part of it I would imagine, you know. >> Yeah, well, there's alcohol everywhere we went and so... >> Yeah. >> Is that dangerous? Shooting in bars late? I mean I shot a film in the bars too, but we were pretty good about holding off 'til when we were done shooting, but you guys looked like

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you were really throwing back the beer there. >> Well, Lee Lynch, the guy who plays Gene was definitely throwing back beers. We had to give him beers to keep him in line, but the rest of us-- I didn't really drink during the shoot, unless... a lot of times the locals who were so welcoming that they would start, at a certain point, sending over shots and drinks and you know, you can't refuse, so we'd have a couple. >> That's good. As long as you keep it under control, I guess. The sailor suit, you know, just because of the uniform reminded me of the last detail. >> Yeah. It's good. >> What are your given influences that kind of in regard of the story before you wrote it? >> Yeah. I think a lot of people at my age are making films now. I mean, everyone cites that Golden Age of Hollywood in the '70s so-- >> Yeah. >> I was thinking a lot about films like The Last Detail, of course, definitely The Last Detail. Elaine May's Mikey and Nicky. >> Okay. >> Five Easy Pieces, but then there's-- I mean,I grew up watching Planes, Trains and Automobiles over and over again, and now, when I watch this, there's some kind of John Hughes print on it, too. >> Yeah. You definitely have the hat. The Del Griffith hat going on. >> Yeah. And I think, the character of Gene's kind of a Del Griffith type, you know? >> Yeah, he is. Kind of a sweet goof sort of a-- >> Yeah. On your nerves, but it's too funny not to keep around, so you know. >> Yes. The pluses outweigh the negatives. And you said he was cast from LA. He was not a local guy. You kind of hear that in his accent a little bit, but-- >> Yeah. >> You definitely captured the bar thing. >> Yeah. He's actually-- he's a filmmaker in his own right. He's LA-based and this was his first time to Wisconsin and he just fell in love with the-- actually, the whole cast slash crew fell in love with Eau Claire and Wisconsin, so it was a lot of fun. >> As they should. Let's take another look at a clip from Sawdust City. >> So Carly doesn't know I'm in town this time? >> Not yet, no. >> Well, aren't you gonna tell her? >> I want to make it a surprise. >> It might be a bad surprise. >> There is no such thing as a bad surprise. >> How 'bout a surprise attack or surprise quiz or-- >> She'll be surprised in a good way. Okay? >> I just thought it's always best to be honest with her, you know? >> Oh. You were always honest with her? >> Well, I didn't marry her. >> No. You didn't. >> Look. I know this doesn't seem like it's been a long time to you, you know. You've been away. Okay? But we've been here. We got a whole life now, you know? A regular life. Routines, responsibility. The whole nine. There's a whole other person now Pete. >> "A different person, Pete." So, I was really anxious to talk to you, because I kind of did the same thing like we talked about on the phone. >> Yeah. >> I shot a film in my hometown. Brought a whole bunch of people from LA to my hometown. I wrote it, directed. You wear more hats than I did with the editing. Talk about the advantages and the disadvantages, if there are any, in shooting a film in your hometown. >> Well, it's cheap. At least it was in Eau Claire when we shot this. I think, you know, practically there's a lot of resources to draw upon. I mean I think part of the reason-- >> Yeah. Kind of favors-- >> Yeah. I was looking for kind of Wisconsin-based stories, both, because you wanted to have that sort of rich history to draw upon in writing it and shaping it. And also, you know, the material sort of connections you have there, because, you know, at this point my family's lived there for a long time. You know a lot of people who have a lot of businesses or know people, and you're a known quantity. >> Yeah. >> And so, I was able to-- it was nice to be able to keep the budget low, but it's also nice to be able to improvise. A lot of times things that we had counted on, because we were moving so fast and loose. A bar would fall through. Like occasionally, we didn't account for a Packer game that was on. It was just going to be too out-of-control in there to maintain any order on the set, so we'd have to switch, but then I'd have a couple backup places and know a couple of other people. >> Yeah. >> And run into people, you know in the bar. I ran into my childhood neighbor in one of the scenes in the supermarket and we roped him into it, so you could kind of play fast and loose a bit. >> Yeah. >> You have to get over a certain self-consciousness, I found that was-- that you were just kind of-- we were the only people making a movie in Eau Claire in the middle of winter. That was part of it. It was kind of a heady fun time. >> So, where do you go from there? Because, I-- you know, if you want to make another movie, you've already used that card. >> Yeah, we burned it. Yeah. >> You got the hometown. You all saved a bunch of money. How do you-- did your film have to win a bunch of festivals in order to finance another one? How do you do that? Where do you go from here? >> I don't know. I mean that's the mystery. It seems to be now that-- you know, I don't think Hollywood makes movies like this on a big-budget anymore. They're not making Five Easy Pieces. >> Right. >> I mean, I think the smartest thing to do is to sort of-- is to find some kind of way to tell your story in a genre-based way that can fit in commercially. >> Yeah. >> I mean just, it's kind of a necessity. I mean there are exceptions to it, but even the ones that, win accolades, you know, are still kind of confined to some sort of festival ghetto or, or indie ghetto and... but, yeah it's kind of a puzzle. I mean everyone's asking that question. >> Talk about the differences between LA and Wisc-- I remember when I brought a crew here. A lot of them from LA and the producer's certainly are from LA and they'd see people drinking... >> Yeah. >> After we were done shooting, there were so puzzled. They were like do all these people get in cars and drive after this?

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Like they thought there was a bus waitin' for everybody. I'm like, "Yes." >> Or, some have snowmobiles. >> True... >> Yeah. >> There's different mechanisms you can wrap around a tree. >> Yeah. Well, I mean there's a lot of differences. You know, I think I had a lot of trepidation about these seven-- I think everyone, except for my producer, was from California originally. And you're worried about how two weeks in this winter-- and it was exceptionally cold. >> Right. >> You know it takes place at Thanksgiving, but in my childhood Thanksgiving there's often a lot of snow. >> Yeah. >> And I wanted that to play a part, and so we had to shoot in January. We got the snow, but the cold was sometimes, you know. >> You don't want them to bail either. >> Yeah. >> I want to ask you about that too after this next clip. >> Sure. >> Because, about shooting in winter if we can. >> Sure. >> So, let's see another clip from Sawdust City.

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>> I mean if he's a bad cook, you know. >> Man what is taking this guy? >> Well, he's calling around.

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>> To who? Who's he calling? >> He said he's working on it.

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>> Yeah, he's working on our pitcher. >> Here, just take my beer. >> No. I don't want your beer.

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>> Just take it. >> No, I don't want it. I want you to enjoy that, okay?

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>> And now, he's just giving it away. >> Bob, it's just a beer man. >> Yeah, beer I paid for.

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>> Yeah, I know how she is. Well, don't let her do that to you.

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>> Any luck? >> Yeah man. I put the word out. >> To who? >> My boys, man, my posse. >> Well, who are they? >> Well, there's Dale over at the Labor Temple and I let him know we were looking for Charlie, so he should be calling you on your phone. >> Great.

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>> Who else? >> That's it, man. Dale's got it covered, that's how Dale is. >> Wait, hold on. You're on the phone half-hour. You only call one guy? >> No. Actually, I called my girl, Brenda, as well, man, because, you know, she's up in the forest working and it's Thanksgiving-- >> Working on Thanksgiving? >> Yeah, dude. She's a Lumberjill man. They work all the ####### time. >> Lumberjill, what is that? Like a Lumberjack? >> No, Bob. It's like a Lumberjill, man. Get the terminology right. And yeah, dude, she's ####### hard-core. She competes in the off-season, man. Won five medals in Hayward this last year. It should have been four goals, but this girl from the Ukraine was doping so... Oops! Last beer buys, Bob! >> We all know that guy who's just vulturing on the pitchers. >> Yeah. >> To cop another free beer. Shooting in winter, was there pressure on you to get-- You wanted snow, obviously? >> Yeah. >> Because you said you waited 'til January, so I ask this, because I wrote a script that is seasonal. I am cursing myself for doing it because if you don't get the money in time, you have to push the shoot. What was it like shooting in winter? Was there any added pressure because of that? >> Well, I think my only concern-- I mean it could have been-- I didn't want snow or no snow. I just didn't want a situation where it was, you know, having that wonky Wisconsin kind of weather, where it would snow and then warm up, and all melt. And then we couldn't have continuity so. There was enough snow, I think, far enough in advance, that I wasn't worried about that >> Yeah. >> And apart from that, it was just a matter of keeping the camera warm, and, you know, the actors acclimated pretty well. And there's always a warm bar to run into if we were shooting outside, so. >> Yeah. You have the great kind of vehicle you used, where you have this radio voice. This kind of wise old sage who does these quips. And we talked a little bit about that. Talk about that choice and what that added to your film, do you think? >> Yeah. He was a radio announcer named Jack Raymond, who, as far as we could tell from the research, worked primarily in Milwaukee. I think in the '60s and '70s. And I had known him-- there's a really great radio station, that I miss whenever I'm away from it, in... out of Chippewa Falls called WCFW. And every noon, and for a while they would have a nighttime show, too. They'd play the Jack Raymond Hour, which was this show that Jack Raymond used to record, I think, in the Milwaukee studios, where he worked during the day and he would syndicate it, and somehow, at some point, the WCFW ended up with the collection of tapes or a collection of tapes. And they've played it religiously, so it's just constant throughout. And once I became aware of it and when I was in my teens and 20s, that was kind of this weird, narrative voice whenever I was home. If you needed to get out of the house around holiday times, because it was just claustrophobic and you're getting cabin fever. You drive around and hear his program, which was a mixture of sort of easy listening and exotica, you know, Hugo Montenegro and his living strings.

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>> And that he would break it up with little jokes and homespun wisdom and stuff. And sometimes they were really very profound and sometimes they were just like kind of corny in a sublime way. >> Right. >> And it was always really an interesting layer. >> He's-- I mean I would assume when you found these tapes or discovered it-- He's got such a great voice. It's like you almost have to make a movie around something. >> Yeah. >> And find a way to weave him into the storyline somehow. >> Yeah. I think that was early on, when I was sort of role gathering.

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>> Okay. >> Going home and thinking about the movie I would hear this and say, "Oh yeah, this has to be in it in some way." >> Yeah. >> So distinctive. >> And the rest of the cast too, great. Gene, like you said, he has kind of a 'Dennis Hopper' feel to him. >> Yeah. >> And there's guys that you see when they walk in. It's like, "This the guy." And I think he said you were friends with him, but... >> Yeah I was like actually living with him at the time, so we could-- we had the-- we were great friends, but we had the ability to sort of mine our mutual noise with each other. >> Yeah, just like an audition 24/7 for you.

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>> Yeah. >> Well, let's see another clip from Sawdust City.

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>> You all right? >> Yeah, no thanks to you! >> Look, I tried to get him off you, man! >> Why didn't you stand up for yourself back there? >> What for? >> He made a fool out of us! >> He made a fool out of me. >> And you're just going to sit there and take that ####? Huh? You're just going to take it? >> It wasn't ####.

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>> You're a real piece of work, you know that? >> Yeah, you pulled some #### before, but this...this is ####### nuts. ####### nuts! You know that, right? What-what-what did you think was going to happen, Pete? You show up in your little Crackerjack and Charlie...what? What happens in this little fantasy? He gives you his blessing or some ####? You ####### poser. >> You're the ####### poser. >> Oh me? >> Yeah. >> I am? >> Yeah! >> Playing the ####### family man? The ####### respectable husband? Always the wiser older brother? You're full of #### man. You ditch your ####### pregnant wife on Thanksgiving for some party slut?

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>> You got some balls, man, you know that? All these years, I pick up your slack. Every time you #### up, I'm there to pick up the pieces! And now you come to me ####### AWOL? Talking about duty? >> So, you wore all these hats. What's your favorite one? Directing, editing, acting? What made you think you could act, let me ask you that, too?

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Because I did the same. No, it's like, "Oh, you got to play the lead role in this." Like, are we crazy, or why do we think we can do that. What was your...? >> Well, I don't know... I mean I think it was a combination of things. One, I mean it was a very personal story and the other thing was

the whole thing

I'd been frustrated writing spec scripts and trying to raise money for other projects and all this, and I just wanted to make something and make it as quickly as possible, you know? >> Yeah. >> And so the whole thing kind of bubbled up with everything that was surrounding me. Like I mentioned, I lived with Lee, who plays Gene and I was hanging around a lot with Carl McLaughlin, who plays Pete. And little accidental things, like people were always mistaking us for brothers and so... As this sort of bar hopping narrative unfolded, I was like-- and, you know, Carl will play the brother and Lee will be this guy and it was just a matter of convenience, a matter of economy. I did have some experience acting in other independent films and so I knew I could do it and I don't know I mean, maybe it was an unwise decision, but... >> No. You did a good job. I just-- it's interesting, because I think I remember right before I shot my film, The Godfather of Green Bay I said to the producer, I go, "It's too much. I can't do this leap." He goes, "Well, we can't afford John Cusack, so..." >> Right. >> So, if we go out and get somebody, he's probably just going to be on your account. So, I thought, "All right. What the heck! I'll do it." But... >> There is also the weird question is if everything else being equal and you bring in John Cusack to play a part, something's weird.

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the whole thing

>> Right. >> You know, it doesn't fit, and so, you know, I mean that's why when you get a name attached you get more money and the film becomes different. >> Then you get chemistry. >> Yeah. >> You get chemistry with these other guys, because you know them, too, which you before you, too. >> Yeah. >> It didn't cost much money, so it wasn't much risk. >> Yeah. >> And I think that, I don't know, I think if you had name actors, recognizable people, it just doesn't... It wouldn't have that same kind of regional flavor. >> Yeah. >> Or "fly on the wall" flavor that it has. >> Talk about your title, David, "Sawdust City"... >> Yeah. >> How that pertains to the story? >> Well, "Sawdust City" was the nickname for Eau Claire in its sort of heyday, lumbering days. It's mentioned in the film, but there was a period in the state where they thought that it might be like the big boomtown that was gonna, you know, become kind of an anchor. And I grew up going to 'Sawdust City Days' which was sort of the annual city festival and I don't think-- I had sort of a moral compunction about using the name Eau Claire and saying this is Eau Claire, because it's clearly not Eau Claire, you know? >> Right. >> There's so much more to the city. One of my fears in making it was that all the people I know and love there were going to feel misrepresented and that we were just kind of this economically broke down alcoholic...

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the whole thing

...you know, squabbling families. And, I mean there's so much more to it. And I shot it intentionally in the worst and most unflattering season of the year and I thought, "It's a catchy title." >> Yeah. >> But it's also a way to sort of say this is my, you know, this is Eau Claire filtered through my history and imagination. >> And why do people get so-- I think it's a small-town thing, 'cause I went through the same thing. It's like, "Hey, that's not how we talk," or "Hey, that's not how we-- " I'm like, "That is, you know-- " >> Yeah. >> That's maybe not how you do it, but you can film something in Brooklyn and have that accent of Chicago or wherever, but is it a small town thing? >> I think it is, but I also think it's sort of what makes Eau Claire different as a small town. I mean I know people from other small towns and spent some time in small towns. I knew ultimately I had these, sort of, misgivings about misrepresenting it, but people there are just really open-minded and very welcoming and supportive. I felt that I was kind of going to be all right. >> Yeah. >> Like I had the license and the blessing of the people there and they'd be cool with it in the end-- which they have been. >> And that's a nice feeling, too. You know they got your back. I mean that's kind of the same experience I had, but... We have about 30 seconds left. So,

I just gotta ask you

how validating is it to get a good review from the Hollywood Reporter about your movie? >> It's very nice, especially if you don't get some good distribution deal, you can always hold onto my Hollywood Reporter review and my Variety review. >> Yeah, that's good. Well, you did a great job in the movie. It was great talking to you. >> Thanks very much. >> Thanks for being here. >> Honored to be here. >> Yeah, likewise. And thank you for watching Director's Cut. For more information on Sawdust City please go

wpt.org

I just gotta ask you

and click on Director's Cut. While you're there, send us an e-mail or find out how to submit a film. Also, don't forget to "like" WPT on Facebook or follow us on Twitter. I'm Pete Schwaba, and don't worry, people of Eau Claire. We know there's more to your town than dive bars. We'll see you next time on Director's Cut. >> Oh, and the wife was very angry. I mean, this happened during an argument. And the wife said angrily, "You've never done anything right in your whole life."

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I just gotta ask you

>> "Why, you were even late for our wedding."

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I just gotta ask you

>> And the husband said, "Yeah...yeah, but not late enough."