Director's Cut

(upbeat music) (sentimental music) -

Mother

It's good for you to get away for a bit. You've always loved it up there. -

Leigh

What's the name of this nurse that's coming tomorrow again? -

Mother

Mishka. She's really good. -

Leigh

Says who? -

Mother

Um, Carolyn recommended her. She took care of her niece for a while. (television softly playing) Okay. (dramatic music) Hi, welcome to Director's Cut. I'm Pete Schwaba, and we just saw a clip from Pet Names, a dramatic film that takes us on a weekend camping trip with Leigh and her ex-boyfriend, that dredges up deep-seated wounds that never fully healed. Joining me tonight is the film's director, Carol Brandt. Carol, welcome to Director's Cut. Thanks for having me. - Oh, our pleasure. Okay, so give us a synopsis here of what Pet Names, what's going on here in the film. So, Pet Names follows the story of this young woman who has to drop out of grad school to take care of her mother, who's gotten ill. And they usually go on this yearly camping trip together, and her mother is obviously too ill to go, so she ends up inviting her ex-boyfriend on this weekend camping trip. And there's closure, there's re-opening of wounds, there's you know, a mushroom trip. There's all sorts of things that happen. So, it's a really good film that encapsulates what it's like to reconnect with someone from your past. I think a lot of exes probably get together and camp and do mushrooms, too. Oh, absolutely, it's very common. Yeah, well that's great. And it is quite a journey they go on together, and it's interesting how you will get more into that as the show goes on. I wanted to ask you, I saw in your bio that you went to film school at UW-Milwaukee. We have a lot of filmmakers on here-- Well, a lot of filmmakers that went to UWM, but also that went to film school. It seems like almost an equal amount that did not go to film school, but are still filmmakers. How essential, if at all, is a formal film education for a filmmaker, in your opinion? I think it depends on what you want to do. I mean, I went to learn as much as I possibly could about the act of filmmaking, learning to do sound, learning to work the camera myself, do all the lighting, so when I was able to direct, I would know what I was talking about. And, I think one think one thing that film school really really does help with is you definitely meet your future collaborators. I mean, I've been making films with people I went to school with for years now, just based on, we were in classes together, we found out what worked, and once you meet those people, you really don't want to let them go. The comradery, so to speak. -

Carol

Absolutely. Let's take another look at a clip from Pet Names. (dog panting) (dog panting) I like what your mom did to the kitchen. -

Cam

What, like the tile and everything? Yeah. -

Cam

Five kinds of tile. -

Leigh

You know, there's like five different kinds of tile. I literally just said that. -

Leigh

What? - Nothing. (Cam sighing) Did you count the tile? Do you have weed? Um, yeah, it wasn't-- I was going to not, though. -

Leigh

Could you bring it please? -

Cam

Okay. Do you mind throwing me some cash, though? I'm a little tight. Oh, I'm sorry, sir, you want me to pay you for your drugs? Yeah, no, no. It's-- Never mind. I'll buy us whiskey. Dude, I cannot believe you still have that tortoise. What are you doing, guy? Come on, here we go. -

Leigh

Remember when we tried to get it drunk? Yeah, I thought he would be dead by now. He's still kicking. You all set? -

Cam

Yeah. Gustav! I'll tell you, it's tough if you have pets to get away for a weekend, especially if you have a dog and turtle. I would imagine that would really kind of cramp your time you can be away. So you have a shot, you have great shot in here where Leigh is walking to pack the car. And you've got this beautiful-- You've got all this greenery and trees. And you also, you shot while you were camping. As a director, how do you-- You got all this natural beauty, how do you find the balance between great cinematography and the emotion going on in the actor's face? How do you frame those shots? Is it almost a challenge when you have this beautiful scenery, to get everything in the shot? I mean, luckily, because we shot it in a four three aspect ratio, the two things didn't have to be mutually exclusive. A lot of the beauty in Wisconsin, I find, is in the treetops, you know. You have that speckled light coming through the leaves. So that can take the top of the frame most of the time. And then, if you have your actors kind of lower in the frame than you would usually have, you can generally capture both. So it was really fun to work with the DP, Dana Shihadah. She has such a great, just, instinct for what would look best in the shot, and how we could frame everything, so we could capture the beauty of the landscape, which of course I wanted to do, because Wisconsin in the summer is amazing. And then capture the performances from our brilliant actors. So it was-- Luckily, we were able to, nine times out of 10, have both in the frame. How did you-- Did the cinematographer typically frame the shots, and you just had to sign off on it? Was it a collaborative effort? - It was pretty collaborative. I mean, we did meet up several times before we actually started shooting. I tend to storyboard all my films before I shoot them, just so when we're on set, I know what I want. Which is helpful, I hear, for a director to know. So we would meet up, we would talk through every scene, literally every shot, and by the time we were on set, we had kind of this shorthand on, okay, this is the shot where we do this, blah blah blah. Because the four three was such a new thing to both of us, everyone's shooting 16 by nine, or like the longer one; I forget the numbers. But yeah, this was definitely an interesting challenge that we took on. So is that why you shot four three, four by three, just to get more of those shots, or, talk about that choice. Yeah, it was a number of reasons. We wanted to kind of accentuate how claustrophobic it was. I mean, you're in a tiny tent with your ex for a weekend. And, you know, it's a lot of close proximity. There's not a lot going on in the world around them. It's very self-centric, the entire story, so we wanted to really show that. And again, the landscapes are so interesting to frame in that, you know, taller ratio. Yeah, absolutely. So, you have, and this is just a question, because I remember dealing with, you know, when you're dealing with budgets and that kind of stuff, you have animation in your film, she's watching a cartoon at the beginning, when she's kind of bored and taking care of her mom. Do you have to pay for that? Is it expensive to license? Or is it something you just came up with because you have so many contacts? What was going on there? - So, I grew up watching, like, Betty Boop and the Fleischer Brothers, and apparently all of their work is in the public domain. Oh! - I didn't know that. Yeah, it's great. - Huge, yeah. So I grew up watching that cartoon in particular, and the song, "St. James Infirmary" was actually already in the script. And I just tied it back to this cartoon I watched growing up. Like, that was when I was introduced to the song. The song is about seeing a loved one dying, basically. So it was really potent for the story, for sure. Yeah, great. Well, it worked beautifully. It was excellent. Let's see another clip from Pet Names. I didn't know you guys were going on, like, an actual hike. Sorry, should've been more clear. (distant children playing) What's up, dude? Are you still with that guy? Who, Davis? What? No, ew! Did you hook up with Davis? No. 'Cause that'd be, ew. No, no, the one guy, the other guy, furniture guy. Petey. -

Cam

Petey. Yeah, ah, kind of, I guess, you know? I don't really know, it's like a lite thing. You know. L-I-T-E, relationship lite. You cool? I don't know if you had to call him or something. I was texting my mom. You know, he seemed really nice when I saw you guys at the Kingfish. Very stately. - Right? Like, he could for sure, be a politician if he wasn't, like, such an artist. Why do you do that? - What? -

Cam

You make fun of people for caring about things, for being driven. I don't know. Probably 'cause I'm not anymore. Talk a little bit about, if you would, about the silence you use. You have a lot of moments in the film where you just kind of let it breathe. And I personally, I love that, but I know as a filmmaker, when you're watching your stuff with an audience, does that ever give you-- Does it make you nervous? Do you go, oh, I think I left too much there or you get uncomfortable with the silence? Talk about that choice a little bit. I love silence. I think it's so powerful in films. I mean, that's when people tend to feel the most, in between the lines of the dialogue. I mean, Meredith's script is brilliant, and it was really interesting, this collaboration, because she wrote so much amazing dialogue, but then, I cut out a lot of it and put in silence. So that was an interesting thing to-- So the silences were not written into the script, that was a director's choice? - Not all of them. - Okay. That one was written into the script. And you guys are picking all my favorite scenes, which is great. But yeah, we did a lot of test screenings, and that really helped. I mean, there's a big different between having, like, a pregnant silence, and just like dead space. And so it was a very interesting challenge while editing, because I also edited the film, to kind of make the space intentional, and make every beat that there was silence to count, and, like, have tension behind it. 'Cause if you just have quiet for the sake of quiet, people are going to be like, "Oh, when's this movie over?" -

Pete

Yeah, they don't know what to do here. - Exactly. And so every moment that there is a space is to kind of soak in what was just said, or what's about to be said, I mean, there is a space in the scene when they're in the field talking to each other where it takes Cam a really long time to say something very intimate. And it's something like that, where you know he's about to say something that he probably shouldn't say, but it's just the building of that tension, so. Is that the one where he says, "I know you by heart"? Yes. - Yeah, that's a great-- I was blown away by that, because it was like, how are we going to come out of this silence. - Absolutely. And then he says that line. Like, "Oh, that's great." So talk a little bit about, if you would, Meredith wrote the script, you said, and she's your lead actress. Was it hard for her to turn the story over to you? Or how did you guys work together there? I thought it would be a challenge, but it turned out so beautifully. I mean, we just had this trust going into it. We were already friends from a previous film that we had both worked on, so. There was this trust there, we both trust each other's taste which is really important. It took a couple times of me having to tell her, I'm not going to make you look stupid. Like, it's my job to do the opposite. Unless it's for the purpose of the scene, or whatever, and you're supposed to look stupid. But that was a really good relationship that we kind of built as we were filming. And I'm happy to say, like, nine times out of 10, we both had the same idea. And if the scene wasn't working, we would meet, talk about it, Dana would also be there, talking about how we would shoot it differently, and it was just very smooth sailing, for a big chunk of the shoot. It was a huge relief. - Yeah, I bet. You also have your male lead, the guy who plays Cam. I saw his name in the credits as Original Music. -

Carol

Yes. - That's interesting. This was really a collaborative effort by everybody, pitching in on an indie level to get it done. - Absolutely. No, I think their credits include-- So Rene, who plays Cam, he did music for it, and he's also a musician, they're both musicians in Chicago and so, you know, he's actor, composer, and Meredith is actor, writer, associate producer, composer. She's crazy. - (laughter) So it was really great to have it be that filled with everyone's, you know, fingerprints all over it. Everybody's more invested, too. It's not, "I'm doing my part, I'm saying my lines, "I'm going home." - Yeah. "I did the music. I helped out with catering." Whatever it is, you know? Right, we all called it our adopted child. That's so great, that's a great indie effort there. Let's take another look at a clip from Pet Names. (crickets chirping) (fire crackling) Are you afraid to die? Just, you know it's... completely new and different for every person. We reached a point where we felt all the possible feelings we can feel, and... that's the last new thing we'll every experience. You're pretty morbid these days. I think I've always been. I think I'm just saying it out loud now. Plus, you kind of have to be when you're dealing with my mom. It stops becoming something, you know... It's like so far away, and it's just sort of there every day. It's like a third person in the house. (laughs) You don't necessarily like it, but it's there. Try as you might to get it out of there, it will still come back. Okay, so your background, primarily, is editing. And whenever I hear that, I always expect when I watch a film to see these crazy cuts and this fast pace, but editing is so much just knowing what story is being told, and when to make those cuts. Does that help you as a director, your editing background? Or is it harder? Uh, both. I mean, I am a big believer in minimal coverage. I like to be able to shoot a scene in as little shots as possible, especially if you have great actors. It's wonderful to be able to let them just use the space, go in and out of frame, kind of, just do their thing without having a camera and having them do it like 1,200 times. And it's a kind of pretty European way of shooting films. I mean, a lot of them dwell in, like, the long shot, and having a lot of things happen out of frame, so kind of expanding the world, in a way. 'Cause you have all these close-ups and quick cuts. It's very easy to get kind of sucked into this kind of melodrama, in a way. It would have been so easy to make this film a melodrama. I mean, you know, the dying mom, exes, like, romance... Sappy music, yeah right. - Absolutely. And we were towing that line for a little bit and so that's why it's a lot shorter than it was. 'Cause I felt at times like, oh this could get a little over the top. You seem to do a decent job of spicing it up with some comedy every once in a while, though. - That's Meredith, yeah. Is it, okay? Yeah, that worked really well. Comedic genius. She comes from the Chicago improv scene, so that helped a lot. And then, yeah, as far as editing influencing directing, I mean, I'll be arguing with my producer, saying, "Oh, we don't need this shot, "I'll never use it." And then of course in the editing room I'll end up using it, 'cause you always do. So it's been a really interesting learning curve for me, because I'll find that usually I'll use, like, half the shots I expect to. But then that also depends on the actors you're working with. Like, I've worked on other projects where the actors aren't as strong, so you tend to edit around them. You need a lot of Bandaid shots. - Yeah, right. It's so funny you're saying that, because every editor-- Not every editor, but I've worked with so many, they're like, "You got to get more cover." It seems like they want more choices. But you're saying as a director, you like to shoot less, thereby making your life potentially crazier as an editor? Yeah, it's just about trusting your taste in yourself. And like, hoping that the vision come through. And, yeah, still trying to climb on top of that whole, you know, having your vision kind of translate from script to actor to screen. What do you prefer, editing or directing? Oh man. Um, directing, 'cause I edit every day. -

Pete

Okay. - It's my day job. So directing is way more fun, 'cause it's a treat when I do get to do it. Get out and shoot, and you're in the middle... Yeah, you're doing the thing. So you shot at night a lot, you have a fire. - Mm hmm. Is that challenging from a lighting standpoint? 'Cause you've got fire, you've got the darkness of the woods and these, but their faces are really illuminated. Was that just from the fire? Really? Yeah. - Okay. I think we tried to use one light in that scene, to like, fake the fire, because it kept going down. We actually had-- Our crew was so small, that we had our craft services guy running around finding branches in the woods to kind of build up the fire in between takes. But we had one light that we had set up, and we had someone flickering their hand over it to make it look like fire. And we're like, "Ah, that looks weird, take it away." So a lot of the film is just natural light. Like, we used a bounce maybe a couple times, but otherwise it's all-natural light. You also have a shot where you have, you hold, I think it's a tick on a screen? Oh yeah, the little beetle? Was it, okay, was it just something you found, and you thought, oh, okay, this is a gem, I'm going to put this in there, or was that, like, written into the script? Nobody's gotten it yet, but it's a-- So, their pet name for each other is Bug. Yeah, oh, okay, got it. So he's standing, kind of contemplating their fight, or whatever, and then he sees a bug on the screen. And so we're like, it's the bug! See, I should have watched a little more-- - Nobody's caught it yet. I didn't think I missed anything, but apparently I did. Let's see another clip from Pet Names. Why the hell am I here? Because I saw you on the street. - Really? Well, I can't say that I missed you, or I wanted... You don't get to win like that. -

Cam

It's not about winning. You know why you feel okay saying that? It's because you won. You wrecked me, Cameron. You shattered me. And now, you get to go and tell the tale of your sorry, little ex-girlfriend and her dying mommy to Maribel and Agnes over there. So, okay, at the end of the film, you have-- They're packing up the campsite, and it starts to rain. I want to ask you about your shoot too, but you had a 21-day shoot. You don't sit around waiting for rain, but it was this nice metaphor on the story, this rain coming down, it's kind of a button. Did you get lucky there. - We did get lucky. And unlucky with the rain. We only shot on the campground itself for about 10 days. And then the rest of the shoots were on weekends, following that shoot. So a lot of the time we were scheduling around the rain, 'cause there were certain scenes-- I try to kind of shape films, especially when you're shooting outside, to be kind of flexible with the weather. And there was one day where it was supposed to rain the following day, and we had a lot of scenes that we really needed to be outside and have it be sunny. And so it was all the scenes where she has to cry. And so in one day, we shot these three really emotionally heavy scenes. And so by the time we got to the campfire scene, she was just emotionally exhausted. We could hear that in her voice at times. Oh, absolutely, and just crying all day, that poor lady, but she's a trooper. So actually, that campfire scene was completely improvised. 'Cause she had written, like, a poem that the character was going to read about her dying mom, and so she reads it. And then, it's towards the end of the take, and she's like, "No, this isn't working." And so she was like, "Can I just try something?" And we started rolling, and she did that monologue. It's great. - Just from nothing. Yeah, it was incredible. Those little things you get when you're shooting you don't anticipate, but they're just like moments of magic, right? - Absolutely. And so that's what we want to kind of be flexible with in terms of weather, as well. And so it just happened to rain during that last scene, and I had these really dumb looking ponchos with me, and they just added the right amount of humor to the scene, because Cam's hair is so big under that hood. So, yeah, it was a good little, like-- What's going on with that hair? That's his normal hair. - Okay. It's amazing, it's like Corbin Bleu. It seems like a lot of, I was thing Sideshow Bob. Oh yeah! - That's great. On your website, it says the film was funded entirely by strong, incredible, game-changing women. Mm hmm. Elaborate on that a little bit. Yeah, we were lucky enough to have all private investors that were women in the area, in the Midwest area, so. -

Pete

Did you set out just to approach women, or did it just happen that way? Um, my previous film it just happened that way. But this film we set out to do it, because we knew we could do it again, probably. So yeah, it was great to be able to say that, because I mean so much of the money in film business doesn't really come from women. And they all believed in the project, and it was great to be able to say that, so. It's great to be able to go back to them again. Oh, absolutely! - Hey, making another film here! Can you explain the ending a little bit? She's out on the lawn, she's got the coffee, what's going on there? I have to admit, it was just a nice moment for her. Yeah. - Maybe refreshed, but was there something else going on there that, without ruining the ending, but. So it's kind of a bookend, 'cause it starts with her on the lawn, with a flamingo, she gives it a little pat. -

Pete

Yeah, that's great. But a big part of the scene is she's kind of looking down the road, kind of waiting for him to pop up with the dog again. So it's hard to tell whether or not she's really let go of him or not. Huh. That's interesting, okay. Do you like leaving a lot of things open to interpretation when you, I mean, 'cause those moments of silence, that's like you're letting the audience kind of take a moment to figure out what's going on, too, almost like reading a book, in a sense, letting them paint their own pictures. You seem like you're obviously a fan of that, and leaving things open, which I think is good, right? I mean, yeah, I love making people work... (laughing) and think, I mean, audiences are smart. If you give them enough breathing room and enough time to process what they're seeing. If you walk out of a film and keep thinking about it a few days later, I think that's the mark of a great film, at least, for me. And so I think opening things up to an audience to consider and think about is, I don't know, it's how I like to do things. Well it certainly worked, it was a great film. Thanks for being here, Carol. - Thank you for having me. You're welcome. And thank you for watching Director's Cut. For more information on Pet Names, please go to WPT.ORG, and click on Director's Cut. While you're there, send us an email or find out how to submit a film. Also, don't forget to like WPT on Facebook, and follow us on Twitter. Right now, I'm going to let my hair grow out, 'cause I've got a new inspiration. We'll see you next time on Director's Cut. (upbeat music) Well I left my wife on the porch last night And then she disappeared I feel like she got abducted by aliens But I can't tell that from here