Director's Cut

>>...a group of us in the newsroom newsroom today, that of all the stories he'd covered over all the years he's been here, this next one has to rank as one of the most fascinating. >> This morning we get to meet a man who can remember every day of his life. >> He remembers just about everything. >> That kind of detail exhaustive memory is called hyperthymesia. >> Hyperthymesia. >> Hyperthymesia. >> He's been called "The Human Google." >> "The Human Google." >> "The Human Google." >> From La Crosse, Wisconsin. >> Please welcome Brad Williams. >>Hi, welcome to Director's Cut. I'm Pete Schwaba, and that was a clip from Unforgettable, a documentary about a man who can remember everything. I'm joined today by the film's director, Eric Williams, and star of the film, what was his name again? Oh, yeah, Brad Williams. Welcome to Director's Cut, guys. >> Good to be here. >> Thank you. >> So, it's interesting. I saw Brian Williams in that first clip. You're like the one guy Brian Williams or Bill O'Reilly can't BS about anything, aren't you? >> I'd like to be. They might catch me on something. But next question, please. >> Okay. So, Eric, you've obviously known Brad your whole life. When did you realize you needed to tell this story? >> Well, when we first heard about the story of the first woman who had this kind of memory and was being studied, which was what date? >> That was March 28th of 2008. >> Nailed it. >> 2006! >> Ah-ha. >> 2008 is when we started getting all sorts of things going, but 2006 is when we heard about the story. >> Okay. >> I stumbled across this story that was on the Huffington Post about this woman from California who had this kind of memory, and my immediate thought was, "This is Brad's memory." And so I got in touch with the doctors in Irvine, UC Irvine, and they met with Brad and after meeting with him and asking him some questions they said, "Well, you're the second person that we want to study." And immediately thereafter I thought, "Well, let me start shooting this and see what happens." >> Wow. So, I mean, did you, was that it, or did you think even before then "I've got to make a movie about my brother"? >> It had never occurred to me that it would be a subject for a movie because we didn't really know how rare it was. We knew that he could churn out these dates off the top of his head, and the rest of us didn't have to worry about remembering anything. But, as far as how widespread in the populous it was, we didn't know it was as unusual as these doctors had decided after they'd studied the one woman. So I had been interested in doing a documentary. I'd seen things like "Spellbound," and I thought it would be fun to do one someday. But I never knew what the subject would be, and then all of a sudden, "Oh, maybe this guy." >> The guy I've been living with. Yeah. So, as brothers, how did you get along during the filming? Were you receptive to this idea, Brad? >> I was fine with it as long as he didn't go too far. Like try to catch me while I was asleep or something. There's certain boundaries that I'm sure he respected, and we got along quite well during this. Occasionally, it's like, "Okay, you got the camera again. Fine. Well, all right. This will be interesting because it's an interesting thing that's happening to us at this point." >> Yeah. >> Because he was along on practically all the things that you can see in the movie. >> Right. And your coworkers seemed pretty okay with it, too. >> Pretty much, yes. >> A fair amount of them in the film. Was there a time you didn't, you're like no, that's off-limits or we're not filming that or you know? >> No, but there were times where maybe we'd get off in a different area when talking. I thought, "No, let's talk about something else." >> There's only even one moment I can remember shooting, when we were in Florida once, where he was just in a bad mood for something completely unrelated and just, "I don't want to talk about that." >> It was Christmas. We were on vacation. >> There you go. All right, well, let's see another clip from Unforgettable. >> When did A Charlie Brown Christmas first air? >> It first aired Thursday, December 9, 1965. 6:30 at night instead of The Munsters. I actually wrote to IMDB to correct this because they had it listed that it was being shown instead of Gilligan's Island that night. Gilligan's Island came on after The Munsters in 1965. >> You're using valuable time in your battle against Google here, you realize. >> Yeah. >> Oh, no, it only counts when you ask the question. >> I think he's far ahead right now, with time to kill. I'm going to go get a sandwich, or something. >> Oh, okay. >> Okay,

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In what city was Super Bowl 25 played? >> I know the Buffalo Bills and the New York Giants were in that Super Bowl. >> That's correct. >> But unless this was played in Tampa, I don't know where it was played. >> And if it were played in Tampa? >> If it were played in Tampa, it would have been played at the Tampa stadium, I guess. >> Who sang The "Star Spangled Banner" before the game? >> This would have been the famous Whitney Houston singing "The Star Spangled Banner." >> On what date was New Coke introduced? >> This was in 1985. I'm going to go for April, but I don't know that I want to. I want to say Wednesday, but I'm not going to pin it down to a specific Wednesday. >> It's a Tuesday in April. >> Okay. >> In 1985. >> Well, I was in Nebraska. We didn't get everything right away. >> Final question. >> Okay. >> What major news event occurred on Wednesday, April 3, 1996? >> I think I'll have to ask for the first hint here. >> It was an arrest. >> Well, the OJ case was done by then. >> It was a man. >> It was a man. >> Would you like to know where? Lincoln, Montana. >> If it was some place like Montana, it'd be Kaczynski, the Unabomber. That's what I'm thinking. >> Correct. >> First name? >> Theodore Kaczynski. >> Correct. >> Where's my prize?

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I want my prize! >> We just talked about the few that he missed, but just the fact that he knew all the ones that he did. Even the ones he missed, he was really close. >> That is incredible. You beat Google so the guys that founded Google are billionaires. >> Right. >> It seems kind of like a rip off. Is there any way, other than... >> They never called me. Go figure that out. >> But other than making some national TV appearances and getting some recognition, can you make money off your ability? >> The easiest way to do it is to play bar trivia or go on Jeopardy! or something like that, basically. I've found over the course of getting attention for this that this is not the sort of thing people really have bundles of money they want to give to you for something. It's something that would take up a certain amount of period on a radio or a TV show and then onto the next segment. >> See, you're missing that Kardashian element. >> That's the whole thing. If there was-- I'm not saying there should be a reality show-- I don't know that I want to go in that direction. >> You heard it here first. >> It's easier to the reality show people because of all that exposure. >> Yeah. >> This isn't a whole lot of exposure, and it's more in the scientific area of, well, this isn't as exciting as the Kardashians. >> Right. How sad is that? >> Oh, well. >> Sorry, people. >> Yeah. There's a comparison made in the film between you and Dustin Hoffman, his character in Rain Man, but you seem like the most normal guy. When did you realize you had this ability? How long was it normal for you, and then you realized, "Well, wait a minute?" >> It was always normal because I had no reason to believe that other people didn't have this same kind of breadth of memory skill. It's only into maybe the last 20 years, and doing something like playing trivia at a bar on a regular basis and they'd have certain categories of "What year did this happen?" I would find out that I was scoring really well on the year things. Other people just didn't seem to fix in on that. And, okay, well, I know that. But it wasn't really until the Irvine story came out that, "Oh, they don't really think this is very common." I thought it was maybe one out of 10,000 people, and maybe it is, but we're not sure. >> For a while you're like, "Wow, everybody else in the world is an idiot."

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Oh, okay, I'm the special guy here. Okay. The easy answer to this, Eric, for you is probably "your whole life," but how long did it take you to make this film? Because you got some, you know... >> We started shooting in 2006 about a month or so after Brad had first met with them at Irvine, and shot into 2009, and then we premiered the film at the Wisconsin Film Festival. >> Okay, which is right around the corner coming up. Well, that's great. Did you have a lot of success on the festival circuit? >> We had a good amount of success. We showed a lot of different places, and we still get a request from time to time to go around and show it and do a nice Q&A afterward where Brad can astound the audience by just having them shout out. >> Yeah. >> Usually people just shout out their birthday, which, of course, Brad wouldn't know that was their birthday. >> But just to see if there's something that clicks that I can think of for that particular date. But there are occasions where we get to do the Google contest, and somebody gets on the Internet and that can be fun a lot of times. >> That's great. Well, let's see another clip from Unforgettable. >> I find that almost everybody is fascinated by looking at a human brain. >> I find it remarkable that I'm holding someone's brain. Everything they ever thought about, loved, hated, cared about, it all went through here. >> People who have this phenomenon, they are, by all accounts, normal people. >> Right. >> With this abnormal memory. There's got to be a lot more out there. They're bagging groceries at the local store, they're working as insurance salesman, and people just always say, "Oh, that's Uncle Joe. He always had this incredible memory. We call him 'the walking encyclopedia'." It looks like a nice brain to me. >> This is a person who donated their body to science many years ago. They decided to do one nice thing on their way out for humanity. And they continue to impress and astound and fascinate and educate people, whoever they are, even though they're not here anymore. And I find that to be very sort of beautiful. I like it. Okay, I'm now going to close it because it stinks. >> When I was watching this film, I couldn't help but think hyperthymesia. I hope I'm saying that right. Is it exhausting for you? Because it seems like when I'm talking to you right now, you're engaged in what I'm saying. You probably watch TV. You do all these things. Is it, it seems like you'd just collapse at some point at the end of the day or something. >> No, it doesn't really happen because maybe it is so natural to that this is the way I grew up. >> Yeah. >> And that I can easily recall certain things. It would only be exhausting if, let's say, I went through a Stevens Point marathon kind of trivia contest. Then maybe it would get exhausting. >> Okay. >> But most of the time, no, it isn't really a burden. >> Can you block out bad memories or things you'd rather not recall? I mean, in what ways is it a blessing what you have and is it ever a curse? >> Well, it can be a curse for realizing, okay, if there's a date, a bad anniversary on the calendar, something that has sad memories, I'll know it's coming up. And it's like, "Okay, yeah, I know what day this is." But then, trying to switch the subject in your mind helps a lot. I don't know that everybody with this kind of memory can do that, but I certainly try to think lovely thoughts, like Peter Pan.

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>> Right. So, as you get older, you're still in your late 20s I'm sure, but... >> Right. >> Does it change? Do you find you become more forgetful, or is it possible? >> The biggest thing is that I've done a lot of theater over the years, and I think maybe it's just laziness on my part that it used to be easier to memorize a script quickly by seeing it on the page than it is now. I think now it's more the technique. I'll feel it in the moment, and then I'll be reminded. And people say, "Oh, you haven't memorized your lines yet?" It's like, "Well, give me some time here." >> Right, right. Now, I mean, in comparison, I'm sure, do you have a good memory? >> Yeah, my brother and I, we're intelligent, I would say. I don't think I have anywhere close to the kind of memory Brad has in the way that's being studied. For a general memory, for trivia or for taking tests, I was always good. But this very specific thing that they're studying where it's relating events to specific dates on a calendar and what else happened on that same day, in that same year or that same day other years, that's way beyond me. >> Okay. Well, you said you're both intelligent, which I don't doubt, but were you a good student, Brad? You've got this great memory... >> I did graduate near top of the class. >> Okay. >> And did well, I guess close to where they could introduce, where they could make me a Mensa member. I've been to the Mensa Convention, National, a couple times as a guest. I'm sure there's got to be one of those test results out there that would get me automatic entrance without having to take the test. >> Right. >> Right on the cusp there. >> It's like he was only 28, but he can remember everything. Brad! >> Yeah, sure. >> All right, well, let's see another clip from Unforgettable. >> March 28, 1969. The big news that was in the papers that day and certainly was on the radio was that Eisenhower was very sick, and they figured he was going to die any day. It was Friday morning. Mrs. Hutchins would have her classroom spelling bees, and up to that point I had won all the bees very easily. That day, I got the word "reverence." And I was so confident I was like, "I know this one." R-E-V-E-R-E-E. I almost got a second E out, and I stopped. And Mrs. Hutchins looked like, "Oh, what did you do?" I went out first. Not only did I not win, I went out first. So I was depressed for the rest of that class. Then second hour the word had spread that I had lost the spelling bee. We'd start the class by running in circles and bouncing basketballs. So a few of the guys going around the gym started saying, "R-E-V-E-R-E-E." It's like, "Yeah, pick on me." Third hour was the school assembly with this memory expert named O.G. Fitzgerald. An old guy, I suppose he was about 60. >> That was what the O.G. stood for? Old Guy Fitzgerald. >> That's probably what it was. He writes this 12-digit number on the blackboard, and he says, "Well, you know, you can remember things if you break them down into smaller pieces." And he splits it up into three-digit sections. 259-371-048-378. And then he asks, gets up on stage to see if they know it. It's like, "Well, I know. Okay, I'll go up." He gets to me. Can you recite it every-other-number backwards starting with the last one? I've got the number committed to memory and I say 8-3-4-1-3-5. He says, "Yes, that's right!" I've been doing this for whatever length of time he'd been doing this. "And you're the first person who could do it right." So I went from goat to hero, so to speak, in the course of three hours. >> That's great. I love the animation. Obviously, Charles Schultz was someone you followed. It must be hard to keep something like this cinematically stimulating. So was that the goal? >> That's a good example where we had this footage of Brad telling this interesting story, but it was just him sitting in the backseat of a car. It occurred to me at some point in the editing that the first Charlie Brown movie had Charlie Brown going to the National Spelling Bee. And it hit me, "Well, why don't we animate this?" Our brother Greg is a great artist and was able to mimic the style of Charles Schultz extremely well and it pepped the scene right up. >> That's great. So it was really a family project all the way around? >> Oh, yeah. >> That's really convenient, too, when it's right in your own family. Did he cut you a deal on the animation? >> Ah, yeah. >> That's good. So, was it difficult, this kind of leads into this next question, was it difficult deciding, as a filmmaker, how much to have Brad on camera just kind of spewing facts? How do you balance that with delving into the science of the actual condition? How do you do that as a filmmaker? >> Well, it took a while sorting through it because, obviously, I had a lot of footage of Brad just spewing out facts. >> Which is boring. >> Yeah, I knew that was interesting for a segment on TV, but that wasn't going to hold people's interest for an entire film. So, we definitely have the doctors from UC Irvine talking about memory. We have Brad meet other memory experts or people who are just interested in the topic, like the encounter toward the end of the movie with a surprise guest. But as the journey went on and Brad kept getting invited on TV shows because he was really the only person that UC Irvine was studying that was willing to go on TV, that kind of became the journey of the film of this unlikely stardom that Brad got just from being able to remember things. >> You and I both have had experiences as writers working with studios. What was-- you wrote Mad City. >> I co-wrote that with Tom Matthews. >> Yeah. >> He's also a Wisconsinite. >> Oh, great. I didn't know that. So what was that experience like as opposed to making your own little documentary where you can do anything you want? >> Well, making the documentary was definitely more fulfilling. The actual writing of the script was great because that is-- You're essentially writing the documentary when you're editing it and when you're filming it. >> Right. >> So that was a very similar experience. But just being able to structure it the way I wanted to, get the jokes exactly the way I wanted to, that was a really fulfilling experience. >> What was more fulfilling on Unforgettable, directing or editing? Do you have a preference? >> Well, editing was the more creative part, I think. Just following Brad around for three years, there's certainly choices you're making during that of what to shoot. >> Yeah. >> And what smart-ass remark to shout from off-screen. But the editing was really where I found all the connections. There are things that happened at the beginning of the movie that I realized, "Wait, someone mentions that later on." >> Right. >> And it's an interesting coincidence. So shaping it was really an enjoyable process. >> That's a great process, yeah. Let's see another clip from Unforgettable. >> So who would know more about sudden fame for remembering an absurd amount of stuff than the most famous Jeopardy! contestant of all time, a software engineer from Salt Lake City, Utah, Ken Jennings. >> I'm Brad. Hello. >> Nice to meet you, Brad. I'm Ken. When were you on again? >> 1990. >> I'm sure I saw it. And you won once? >> No I didn't. Nope. Finished second. >> Still, the hard part is getting on. I almost lost my very first show. I was one question away from being a zero game Jeopardy! champion as opposed to a 74-game. >> The first two or three minutes, I don't answer any questions correctly, and then just at the moment that I'm going to answer my first question correctly is when they interrupt the show, at least in Madison. >> Brad. >> "We bring you this Special Report from ABC News. President Bush and Soviet President Gorbachev have an announcement to make." You don't get to see me answer a single question. >>

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1984 Movies. >> Brad. >> What is the Karate Kid? >> Brad. >> What is The Killing Fields? >> Brad. >> What is the Soldier's Story? >> Brad. >> Who is Steve Martin? >> Brad. >> What is Moscow on the Hudson? >> You are correct. >> And I ran the category. >> Yay. >> I was the only one to get the "Final Jeopardy" right. >> While a regular on Major Bowes' Radio Show, she said, "I'm seven years old, and I can sing 23 arias." >> Beverly Sills, maybe. >> You've got to phrase it in the form of a question. >> I'm sorry. >> Who is Beverly Sills? >> Bubbles. You're right. Well done. >> People see me on TV answering questions about the Civil War or whatever, and they assume that means you have the media's idea of a photographic memory. >> What's a photographic memory? >> People will be like, "Well, your car is parked in space whatever, whatever, but I don't have to tell you that. I know you remember that." >> It seems like I'm almost opposite you. Some Bizarro World Brad.

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>> I thought I was the bizarre one. >> I'm Darb. You know, it's Brad backwards. Like dates are a total blind spot for me. Like when I was learning the presidents, I would totally have to make up some elaborate story for the numerical part of it. And I'm sure that would be the easiest part for you. Often I would not know the answer, but I would be buzzing anyway because there's some second level where I would know that I would know it, you know? >> Yeah. >> Like the answer's not there yet but, oh yeah, this is there. Somehow, my brain was sure this is the kind of thing I should be buzzing on. Why is my thumb buzzing? What does it know that I don't? >> So, that's kind of a cool scene. You get Ken Jennings to be in the film, and it's nice that he, you guys played trivia. There's a scene where you're playing trivia against Ken. That's really cool. >> He was a good sport. >> Yeah. >> He's a nice guy and a sport about going to a bar on a Friday night and trying to be secretive about it. It's like, "Oh, people are going to see Ken coming in." Nobody cared. There was nobody in the bar, and everybody else was at the other end playing darts or something. >> Did anybody recognize him? >> Nope. That's the kind of bar, it's not a Jeopardy! bar. >> I did win the game. >> Well, that's what I mean. For him to go on and say... >> Spoiler alert. >> Yeah, right. Who do you think would win between you and Ken Jennings in an arm wrestle? >> I don't know that we're ever going to try that. >> Come on. >> That's not our... >> Sell tickets to that. >> I bet on youth in that one. >> Yes, okay. We'll give Ken that one. >> As a filmmaker, Eric, is it tough to get-- You have Dick Cavett, too. That was a neat scene at the end. You get Ken Jennings, Dick Cavett. How hard is it to book these guys in your film, to get them to make appearances? >> It was surprisingly easy. Ken was fascinated. At that point, there had only been press about the one other person that had been studied. >> Yeah. >> But he had read that, and he was curious about that. So we said, "Well, if we come up to Seattle, will you meet with Brad?" And he said, "Sure." Welcomed us into his house. And the Dick Cavett thing just happened to work out as well. We contacted his reps and for no money, just bring him to the ABC Studios. >> It does seem like the kind of thing he's interested in anyway. >> Yeah, and there was a specific reason why it made sense to have him talk about the subject because he actually had written something about people's false memories of seeing someone on his show die on the show that was never aired. >> Yeah, that was interesting. We have about a minute left. I noticed, okay, obviously you remember everything. You catalog things, and you, the Williams family it looks like shot every moment of your life. You have so much footage of home movies. What was that like going through all that? Was it cathartic? Tedious? Therapeutic? >> It was great. We had watched most of those home movies when we were growing up. Our dad won a camera and projector around the time that I was born. >> His first Christmas is when we got the Bell & Howell 8mm. >> So we got everything transferred over. >> So he's always been on film, basically. >> Yeah, well, it came in handy for this, right? >> Oh, yeah. >> You kind of have to make a movie about someone in your family if you have that much footage laying around. >> It was very convenient to tell some parts of the story to be able to show footage from it. >> Yeah. We got about 15 seconds left, so I just have to ask you, do you even let people finish a sentence that starts with "Remember when?" >> Sure I do. >> Just to be polite. >> I say, "Yes I do. Yes, thank you for asking." >> Well, you guys are great. Thanks for being on the show. >> Thanks for having us. >> The film was great. >> Thanks >> It's great talking to you guys. And thank you for watching Director's Cut. For more information on Unforgettable, please go to WPT.ORG and click on Director's Cut. I'm Pete Schwaba and I've already forgotten what I had for breakfast, so we'll see you next time on Director's Cut. >> I'm telling you, thunderstorms on Christmas Eve five years ago. >> What was the date? >> December 24th, 2002. >> What day of the week? >> It was a Tuesday. >> What hour did the thunderstorms start? >> Late enough. >> Ah-ha! Late enough isn't an hour. What hour? >> I don't know what hour. >> Ah-ha! He doesn't know. >> I don't know what hour it was.