Zac Schultz:
Good afternoon, and welcome to Chicago, host city for the Democratic National Convention. This is a special presentation of Here & Now's 2024 election coverage. We're coming to you live from media row in the United Center in downtown Chicago. I'm senior political reporter Zac Schultz, and joined as always by our esteemed colleagues, Bill McCoshen, Scot Ross. You've switched sides today, confusing everybody, including me, but thanks for being here.

Bill McCoshen:
We won't be arguing each other's points, though.

Scot Ross:
Great point.

Zac Schultz:
Thankfully. I would hate to hear what that would sound like. Last night, President Joe Biden came here. He made what may be his farewell address to the last prime time audience. He would've liked to have been on Thursday night, but he was on Monday night. Scot, listening to the tone of the speech, it reminded me of, that's the tone he's taken all along. It was very dark, it was very foreboding, it was all focused on Donald Trump. There was a lot of anger on the stage, and it's completely different from what we've heard Kamala Harris. What was your impression of the speech?

Scot Ross:
Well, I thought that it was the perfect political capstone to a 50-year career of public service. Joe Biden did a great job. He laid out what the stakes are, and I thought that what was most telling, and I think the difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump, if we're going to talk about differences, was how he reacted to his daughter being up there introducing him. Ashley Biden dabbing, literally dabbing tears from his eyes, because he is such a family man, so proud of his family. And, I felt myself I might get choked up because that sort of commitment to your family in your contrast with Trump. I don't think Joe Biden was angry. I think Joe Biden was making the case he needs to make, which is, "These are what the stakes are. This is why I've decided to put country first." And I think the speech hit a great tone. I think it hit the perfect tone, and I think he did a great job, and he had it coming. And I said last night, or I said yesterday on the show, that I thought he would get the second longest applause. I'm going to revise that. I say that that 11 minutes that he got of applause from the grateful Democrats is going to be the longest applause of the thing, only because they so respect what Joe Biden did for the country.

Zac Schultz:
What did you take from the speech?

Bill McCoshen:
So, this whole convention's supposed to be about joy, right? This was a joyless speech last night. I agree with you, Zac. I think it was dark. I think it was angry. Where I disagree with my friend Scot is, I think it was a missed opportunity for Joe Biden. Here's a guy who's been on the stage, the public stage, for 52 years. If I'm him, or his aides, I want that to be a legacy speech. He had two objectives last night from a political standpoint. One was to advance Kamala Harris' campaign. The other was his legacy. I don't think he hit either of those in his speech last night. So, I think it was a missed opportunity. I think it could've been more hopeful. It could've talked about his career. I think the close was right, where he said, "I did the best I could." That was a good line, but I think the whole speech could've been along those lines of, "Here's what I did," and people could've left with a very good feeling. Outsiders like me, or independents, left there with a very sour taste in their mouth because he appeared angry and bitter about this, you know, the whole transition to a different candidate. So, I think it was a missed opportunity overall.

Zac Schultz:
Whether you agree with the tone difference or not, from what you heard from President Biden, there is a dramatic difference between him and Kamala Harris and their messaging and approach to this election. Does that account for the enthusiasm shift that we've seen since Kamala became the standard bearer?

Scot Ross:
Well, I think in part. I mean, again, Joe Biden saw the writing on the wall in terms of the fact that people were questioning whether or not it was time for a new generation, and he answered that call, and said, "Yes, I'm going to put country first. I'm going to do that." I have to disagree, I just, I think there were four, sort of four things, if I can get to all of them. The first thing it was that family is the beginning, the middle and the end. Are you ready to vote for freedom and democracy? This, I think, was important. You can't all, you can't only agree with your country when you win. And I think the last thing, and I think that, you know, as a Republican who worked for Tommy Thompson, I think you would love this one, which was, "How can you have a strong economy if you don't have a strong infrastructure?" And again, putting all the cards on the table of what Joe Biden and Kamala Harris did to save America, and rebuild it, and bring it back. I think that's a great message for him. I totally understand why Republicans would want to say, "This was an angry speech, this wasn't the right tone." I think it was the tone for the people who need to hear it to remind that there is, you know, this is the most important election of our lifetime. There's a reason why I've made the choice I've made, and there's a reason why you, as a voter, have to make the choice you need to make, which is to elect Kamala Harris.

Bill McCoshen:
Yeah, the bigger issue may be the stage management of this. Joe Biden didn't go on until 10:28 Central Time last night. That's 11:28 Eastern Time. One of two things happened. Either all the previous speakers went longer than they were supposed to, and/or Joe Biden's staff didn't push hard enough. He should've been in prime time. If you were the nominee 30 days ago, you're no longer the nominee tonight, that should've been one of the requirements of stepping off the stage, or stepping to the side, is, "I am speaking in prime time." He didn't get that opportunity last night. So, the question is why is that?

Zac Schultz:
So, I want to talk a little bit about the difference between Kamala Harris and her joyful warrior messaging that has been pushed by every Democrat we've been speaking to all week long. That is clearly the theme that she is pushing, which is a striking difference between Joe Biden and herself. Does that matter when it comes to, "She's got the same policies as the Biden agenda? She's attached to those". So, for Democrats, is that the difference between her enthusiasm gap? Is it just the tone, that the message was the same, but it just needed a brighter, happy ending?

Scot Ross:
Yeah, I think so. I think that you, I think you hit on that, and I think if you looked at the speakers last night, there was a lot of tongue-in-cheek stuff, like, you know, Shawn Fain, the head of the UAW, replicating basically the Hulk Hogan tearing his shirt off, where he shows a shirt that says, "Donald Trump is a scab." Jasmine Crockett, the representative from Texas, who said, "Kamala Harris has a resume. Donald Trump has a rap sheet." So, I think there was a lot of tongue-in-cheek. There was also very serious, and I think we'll get to that stuff. Some of those speakers were very, very serious about what the real stakes in this election could be, especially for women in America. But I think it was the right tone. I, again, you can't do the same thing all the time. You got top have like, you know, ebb and flow, and that's why people tune in, and I think that they did a good job. Sure, I would've liked to see it a little bit earlier. I think the people who wanted to get out to the after parties might have wanted it a little bit earlier, but it was worth the wait.

Zac Schultz:
For Republicans, they're probably happy that it's the same policies that they can tie her to, but the campaign messaging does make a difference in how people perceive those policies.

Bill McCoshen:
It totally does. Most of the time, voters vote on issues, but a certain segment of voters, they go on likability, right? And tone has a lot to do with that. I've been encouraging Donald Trump to be nicer, and to be more optimistic…

Zac Schultz:
Maybe be more likable?

Bill McCoshen:
To be more optimistic. I think there's a certain segment of voters that are attracted to that, right? I think presidential elections are very, very serious. I agree with my friend Scot about that. But there are times when you can be joyful, and hopeful, and smile, and crack jokes. That's attractive to a certain number of voters, and I would encourage both sides to continue along that line. I think the sledgehammer politics, people are getting tired of on both sides.

Zac Schultz:
So, this morning, Congresswoman Gwen Moore from, representing the Milwaukee area for the Democrats, spoke to the breakfast delegation. When I spoke with her after that meeting, we talked a little bit about some of that messaging, about the Inflation Reduction Act, or the infrastructure plan, and she said, "Democrats need to stop talking with those acronyms, and they need to talk about insulin prices, and they need to talk about lead pipe removal." Do the Democrats have the right message when it comes to — we were talking about inflation yesterday — about battling the perception that voters have about whether those things are tied to their policies or Trump's policies?

Scot Ross:
I mean, I think you can talk about the specifics of the issue. In Wisconsin, we could talk about $7 billion in funding to build roads, to build bridges, to repair things, to make Wisconsin be able to do business. You know, the fact that we have a new tech hub, $49 million for a biotech hub. The fact that under Trump, we got Foxconn. Under Governor Evers and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, we got a $3.3 billion AI facility for Microsoft. I mean, I think that you do need to talk about those investments in a way that people can understand. I know this bridge was built by Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. I think you have to do those things. You know, acronyms are an easy way to remember some things. But again, that's the thing. Like you can't — somebody said, "Never underestimate the people, the people's intelligence, but never overestimate their interest in politics."

Zac Schultz:
So…

Bill McCoshen:
So, the struggle for voters, their voters' perception is politicians' reality, or candidates' reality. That's a fact. They don't understand the bridge, how it impacts them necessarily. They may not understand the Microsoft AI facility down in Racine County if they don't live close by and aren't working there, or don't have any friends or family that are working there. You got to make it real for them, and right now, most voters, if you walk around the United Center, or anywhere in Chicago, if you ask them, you know, "Are they better off today than they were four years ago," I think most would say, "No." And that's what Democrats are lacking here is how do they message directly to voters and say somehow all these programs they passed are working for them?

Zac Schultz:
So, I know what you're going to say. "Four years ago, we were right in the middle of COVID." We've heard that over and over. So, how do Republican — they're just trying to skip five years ago? Why doesn't just Trump change the timeline if he wants to forget about COVID existing?

Bill McCoshen:
Well, I think that's part of it. I mean, COVID impacted everybody, right?

Zac Schultz:
But it impacted the same prices that Republicans are now trying to pin on Joe Biden, right?

Bill McCoshen:
No, it didn't. I mean, prices were lower. The inflation under Donald Trump was under 2% at its lowest, which is, today, it's about 3%, or 2.5 for Joe Biden. So, even at its lowest point in the four-year cycle, it's higher today than it was under Donald Trump.

Zac Schultz:
What's your response to that?

Scot Ross:
There was a, you know, there was a pent up need to do commerce, which is what led the inflation, and we talked about this yesterday. Also, the profiteering of big oil companies, of big food. We did our part by investing in the American, the Inflation Reduction Act. The companies did what they always do, which is put profits before the American people, and again, I think, you know, just to go back to one thing about tone. Yes, you do want to have the idea that you're in, you know, that there are happiness to this and there is joy and there is freedom. But there's also the slogan that Kamala Harris has used, which is, "When we fight, we win." And it's important because you have to stand up for the things that you believe in. I think that's what Democrats are doing, and that includes investing in things that help the middle class, as opposed to $2 trillion in tax breaks for rich people and corporations, which is what Donald Trump did, and $5 trillion more what he'd do in a second term.

Zac Schultz:
So, one of the other speakers last night was Wisconsin Lt. Gov. Sara Rodriguez. She was on stage for a short time. She's not well-known. Is this a moment for her to increase her profile in Wisconsin? Because she wasn't Tony Evers' first lieutenant governor. That was Mandela Barnes. She came in late. Can she make a name for herself within the Wisconsin bench?

Scot Ross:
Oh, absolutely, and what is her message? I mean, she, you know, she is a nurse. She lived health care. Health care is on the ballot, abortion is on the ballot. Being that, you know, being that voice for Wisconsin as our highest ranking woman in state government I think is a fabulous place for her to be, and, you know, it's why we see her over here. It's why she was on last night. It's why she's going to be a leader in Wisconsin for some time to come.

Bill McCoshen:
Scot and I got a chance to talk to her before the show today. She was sitting over here, and I think she'll be one of many potential Democratic candidates if Gov. Evers decides not to seek its third term. So, I'm sitting on this show today as the only campaign manager for a successful third-term candidate — Tommy Thompson in 1994. It's never been done before, or since. I don't know that Gov. Evers is going to run for a third term. If he does, he would be considered the favorite, more than likely, depending on what happens in the White House. But if he doesn't run, I think Sara Rodriguez, I think the mayor of Milwaukee, Cavalier Johnson, who's speaking tomorrow. I think David Crowley is another name, and potentially Secretary of State Sarah Godlewski. So, they have other people that are considering, but I like our bench, too.

Zac Schultz:
So, since we've opened up the door to Evers' third term…

Scot Ross:
Sure.

Zac Schultz:
What are your thoughts on whether he should, or could run again?

Scot Ross:
Oh, I certainly think Gov. Evers should run again. He has had a phenomenal first term and a half. I think he has done everything to bring Wisconsin back and also be a check on the unbelievably extremist reactionary right-wing Wisconsin Legislature. I think that's going to change a little bit in terms of, you know, after 2024 in the elections. But yeah, I absolutely think Gove. Evers should run again, and politically, it's smart because incumbents usually win.

Zac Schultz:
If we're going to talk about benches, though, the Republican bench so far has been millionaires who can self-fund. Is that the future?

Bill McCoshen:
I don't think so. I think if Eric Hovde doesn't beat Tammy Baldwin that Republicans will move on from sort of the rich candidate style, and go with somebody who's sort of more from the grassroots and has more fire in the belly. So, you know, I wish Hovde the best and hope he can pull it off this fall. But I think that model, if we go 0 for 2 with Tim Michels and Hovde, Republicans will move on from that, and go back to somebody elected, maybe somebody like Josh Schoemann, the Washington County Executive.

Scot Ross:
The most grassroots-oriented servant that the Republicans had was Rebecca Kleefisch, and they threw her out in the primary for a guy who lived in Connecticut. And my wife lives in Washington County, and that county executive, you know, he might be good for the Republicans, but I don't think he's going to win a statewide record, or a statewide race once you get his record out there about what's happened in Washington County.

Zac Schultz:
All right, let's move on to what we're going to hear about tonight. Former President Barack Obama's going to be speaking. Scot, what is his legacy, or what is his reputation today? We know what President Biden was speaking about. We know what we expect to hear from Kamala Harris. But when you hear Obama today, what does he resonate, especially for young voters, who, like he may just be kind of a myth to some of those people that weren't actively involved in 2008?

Scot Ross:
I mean, listen, I'm a President Obama fanboy. I am wearing a tan suit and a gray tie like he did that was so controversial when the, you know, remember the days when things were so unserious that we could care about the president wearing a tan suit in the White House…

Bill McCoshen:
Ronald Reagan has…

Scot Ross:
Right?

Bill McCoshen:
So, yeah.

Scot Ross:
Exactly, I mean, obviously, he wears it better than I do, that's for sure. But no, I mean, he has a legacy of helping turn this country around after the eight years of the George Bush administration, where we were at two endless wars, the economy was in the toilet, millions were losing their jobs, millions were losing their homes, and through the policies of Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, we have turned that corner for sure.

Zac Schultz:
What do Republicans think of Obama today? Would they want to go back to that era, or are they happy to be, have him in the background?

Bill McCoshen:
We don't consider Harris in the same category as Obama, and what we've learned in the last eight years is Barack Obama is still running the Democratic Party. Whether it was making sure that Hillary Clinton was the nominee in 2020, or helping with James Clyburn to make sure that Joe Biden was the candidate in '24, or pushing Joe Biden off the stage in, or 2020, excuse me, or pushing Biden off the stage in '24. Barack Obama's hands are all over all three of those big moves. He and Nancy Pelosi are the arms and legs of the Democratic Party, and he's still a young man. So, I expect him to continue in that role for some time.

Scot Ross:
The number of fundraising solicitations that you get if you're on Republican lists that have Barack Obama's picture in it, or Nancy Pelosi's picture and their name, is a very clear sign of what the Republican Party thinks that its base wants, and it's, you know, attacking people who aren't white men. It's as simple as that.

Zac Schultz:
The other Obama that is going to be speaking tonight is Michelle Obama, Barack's wife, famously said, "When they go low, we go high." In retrospect, was that the right message for the time, or does it apply today?

Scot Ross:
I think it was exactly the right message for Michelle Obama, and I think it helped, you know, it reminded people that like, "We are, at the end, we can disagree, but we are people, you know? But things have got a bit, a little bit different. You know, Donald Trump is a president like we have never had in American history, and the fealty and fecklessness of the Republican Party to roll over to this man, and the racism, and the hostility, and the corruption, you know, has befouled our political system. And so, I think that there is a different message now than, "When they go low, we go high," and I think it's, "When we fight, we win."

Bill McCoshen:
I would say I liked how Scot distinguished there, that may have been the right message for Michelle Obama at the time. Joe Biden didn't go high last night. He went very low, and I don't think Obama will do the same thing tonight. I think he'll be a little more hopeful. We'll see. But I think he wants to start to set the stage for Kamala Harris on Thursday night.

Scot Ross:
Absolutely.

Zac Schultz:
So, also tonight, Kamala Harris is in Wisconsin. She is trying to reclaim the Fiserv center for Democratic theater. What are you expecting from that, and what is the impact of having her back in Wisconsin while the United Center is hosting the DNC?

Scot Ross:
Oh, I mean, I think it just shows again the impact that we in the state of Wisconsin will have on this election, on the future of the country, not just now, but for the next couple generations because if we go, you know, we won't go back, but if for some reason we went back, you know, the democracy will cease as we know it. Donald Trump has promised to be a dictator on day one. He has decided to throw out the Constitution if he's in there, and he is very, very dangerous, as dangerous as he was in 2016, you know, and Hillary Clinton reminded us of that last night. He is even more dangerous eight years later because, again, when he lost an election, he sent his minions to the Capitol to try and violently overthrow the results of a democratic decided of election.

Zac Schultz:
In terms of the optics of the thing, the thing that drives the Trump campaign and Donald Trump specifically nuts is images of full arenas for Kamala Harris. What's it going to do to him if she's got a full packed Fiserv?

Bill McCoshen:
I don't know that she will, but if she does, good for her. I don't think that matters, and if you follow me on Twitter, I've encouraged the Trump campaign to stop focusing on that because voters don't care. They don't care if you have 10 people at a rally, or 10,000 people at a rally. To a degree, it shows momentum for your campaign, but if people are coming to your rally, they're for you. They're not coming as undecideds, right? So, I don't know that that's a great measuring stick to how the campaign is doing, on either side.

Scot Ross:
I mean, I absolutely would agree that Bill's giving, Trump should listen to Bill on this. Arguing about crowd size is a no-brainer. Like for instance, if I said, you know, there's going to be a capacity crowd in Fiserv. There's been a capacity crowd here in United Center. JD Vance was in Kenosha today, and there were 100 people there, so he could talk about crime representing a ticket that has 34 felony convictions.

Zac Schultz:
So, speaking of JD Vance in Kenosha, how important is, I mean, Kenosha is one of those tipping point counties in Wisconsin…

Bill McCoshen:
Oh, for sure.

Zac Schultz:
It's key…

Bill McCoshen:
It's getting redder every cycle.

Zac Schultz:
Is it still 2020 and the riots? Is that still what resonates there, and is that what JD Vance is trying to pull back into people's minds?

Bill McCoshen:
I didn't get a chance to hear the press conference today, but that's his third trip to Wisconsin in the past 10 days. Based on some conversations Gov. Thompson and I have had with the Trump campaign, I expect to see the former president in Wisconsin at least four times over the final 77 days of the campaign, but I think we might see Vance a dozen times. Wisconsin is a tipping point. I think we're going to see Harris many more times other than tonight at the Fiserv Forum. I suspect her and Walz will go separately, and we'll see Walz in western Wisconsin, where he has got some name ID based on being the governor of Minnesota. So, I think this might be the cycle where we have more visits than any time in history.

Zac Schultz:
So, speaking of Kenosha and those riots, that was actually the genesis of Kyle Rittenhouse becoming a household name. You had some observations today about Kyle Rittenhouse and then Chrystul Kizer, who was a woman who was sex trafficked as a minor who ended up coming back and killing her abuser and was sentenced.

Scot Ross:
Yeah.

Zac Schultz:
What are your thoughts on how those two formulate into Kenosha, into Wisconsin, an election in today's cultural and political environment?

Scot Ross:
It is a, you know, it is a reminder that our justice system doesn't have justice for all, and you can say what you want about like Chrystul Kizer and her actions, but the fact is that Kyle Rittenhouse came up from Kenosha, or came up from Illinois, shot two people in cold blood, wounded a third, was let go. Chrystul Kizer attacked her sex trafficker, and got 11 years in prison from a Scott Walker-appointed judge. This is, you know, it just shows, again, the disparity in justice, which is why the uprisings happened with Kenosha, in Minnesota in the first place, because of the killing of unarmed Black men and Black women, and the fact that people had said, "Enough is enough, and we're going to start talking about this."

Bill McCoshen:
I'm not here to defend Kyle Rittenhouse, but I do know that he was tried and acquitted by a jury, right? It didn't get erased. He went through a process we would all hope we would get faced with the same situation. So, I think crime is going to be a selling point. Tim Walz does have some culpability of what happened in Minneapolis. He doesn't have any culpability in Kenosha, but that's still a very raw nerve for a lot of voters in Kenosha of what happened, particularly business owners who lost their business that was burned down. So, I think there are a lot of people who say the government didn't do enough to defend us during that time before the people like Kyle Rittenhouse sort of took matters into their own hands. So, they will be looking to hold, I think, Tim Waltz accountable for that.

Scot Ross:
I mean, I think that's the contrast, though. You know, Gov. Evers mobilized the National Guard within 24 hours of when the shooting happened in Kenosha. Ron Johnson, Sen. Ron Johnson, Rep. Bryan Steil, Rep. Derrick Van Orden all praised the verdict, and said, "Leave Kyle Rittenhouse alone." But when Trump was convicted of 34 crimes, they suddenly said that the justice system shouldn't exist. That's, again, how it works.

Zac Schultz:
So, the protests there do bring us to the protests here…

Scot Ross:
Yeah.

Zac Schultz:
And we have not yet addressed the Palestinian-Israel war and the issues that that brings to the Democratic Party. Yesterday, there were protests outside. There were not quite the 20,000 that police were warning us could be there, but there were some violent interactions, there were some people arrested. Barriers were torn down. It definitely impacted people's ability to get in and out delegates to the floor. Scot, what is the impact of these protests here, and what is the internal conflict for the Democratic Party in trying to handle this issue?

Scot Ross:
I don't think it's an internal conflict. I think it's, you know, Kamala Harris has said, like, "I'm willing to listen to what people have to say." Kamala Harris wants a cease-fire. Kamala Harris wants the hostages to be returned. You know, that's the policy. I think what happens is you've got a, you know, very divisive leader, like Benjamin Netanyahu, who comes over while there are American hostages and is genuflecting before the Republican Party and doing partisan political events. That's what the challenge is. That's why people are — you know, this is just not, this just isn't right, doesn't pass the smell test. That guy should have been over trying to get the hostages back, not coming over here to try and support Donald Trump.

Bill McCoshen:
I think that was the worst part of the Biden speech last night. I thought he put fuel on the fire on this whole thing. He said, "They have a point," meaning the protestors outside. He never mentioned Israel, not once. He never mentioned the hostages, not once. [Editor's note: President Joe Biden referenced hostages taken by Hamas in his Aug. 19 speech at the Democratic National Convention, saying "And we'll keep working to bring hostages home and end the war in Gaza."] I mean, yeah, we should get those hostages and then discuss the cease-fire, not before. But the reality is Democratic Party is trying to straddle the fence between the Palestinian supporters and try and pretend to be pro-Israel, which they used to be. Joe Biden missed that mark completely last night, and I thought he gave fuel to the Palestinian fire.

Scot Ross:
I mean, the thing is that he — you know, in April 12, 2003 — 2,000 Israelis marched in Nazareth to protest George Bush's actions with the Gulf War. It didn't mean that Israel was suddenly anti-America. It meant that people were expressing themselves to ensure that their voices are heard in controversial things, and this is a controversy. There are two sides to this issue, and people have to have the right to have their voice heard. I left the convention yesterday and happened to walk through a part of that. I did have somebody, you know, I had a couple people come up to me, like, "Are you a delegate?" And I was like, "Actually, I'm with the media here," and they're like, "OK," and which I actually thought that, you know, if it was the media, I would've gotten a little bit more heat for it. But, the protests happened. I'm guessing that there will continue to be, but I think other than a little bit of trouble people getting in and out is basically what's happened here…

Bill McCoshen:
Yeah, my sincere hope…

Scot Ross:
Nothing too bad.

Bill McCoshen:
Is it stays peaceful…

Scot Ross:
Yeah.

Bill McCoshen:
For everybody involved in the convention and the city of Chicago. I think it would be a very bad look for the city moving forward, and ideally, there is a huge police presence here, which I like, so…

Scot Ross:
And that's what Joe…

Bill McCoshen:
Let's hope it all stays peaceful.

Scot Ross:
And I think Joe Biden, I mean, he basically led his speech off last night by saying, "There is no place for political violence in America." He was right, Bill's right, I think I'm right on that, too.

Zac Schultz:
We've seen Kamala Harris deal with Palestinian protestors in some of her speeches. How much do you think the campaign is focused on what may happen from the floor Thursday night, and what are the optics if she has to shut down a protest during her nomination acceptance speech?

Scot Ross:
I can't predict anything like that. You know, I've been out there in the stage. Like it's hard to hear, you know? And I mean, I don't know how you're going to get your voice right, you know? But I'm sure she'll deal with it with grace and respect and dignity in the way that she's conducted her campaign.

Bill McCoshen:
I think the rest of the guests will sort of self-police that if there tries to be a disruption in the hall. Whether it was at the RNC, or the DNC, I think the rest of the delegation sort of handles that themselves.

Zac Schultz:
So, one of the things that broke today is the Wisconsin Supreme Court has issued their — not a decision, they've said that they're going to hold oral arguments in October on the LeMahieu v. Evers lawsuit, which is the lawsuit that would seek to overturn Tony Evers' 400-year veto in the last budget having to do with school funding, and this is a complete switch from the politics here, but this is the politics of Wisconsin. What do you think about those oral arguments and that happening right in the lead up to the election when this is another reflection on Evers and his priorities versus, you know, a lawsuit in the Supreme Court?

Scot Ross:
Well, I'll tell you this. If the discussion in state politics in Wisconsin is about a guy who wants to fund public education and a party like the Democrats who want to fund public education and the party of the Republicans, who want to keep funding, who want to keep funding away to give it to rich people in tax breaks, I'm fine with that.

Bill McCoshen:
I think the timing's peculiar. I mean, obviously the Supreme Court has now advantaged Evers on any major decision. I'm not sure why they would want to raise that, unless they think that somehow it works for Evers, but I think most voters would say a 400-year veto, that's not right.

Zac Schultz:
So, one of the other things that I do want to touch on, we've got a couple minutes here, let's go through some of the congressional races in Wisconsin. We were going to hit it yesterday, but we had so much good conversation. The third is obviously the big toss up. Derrick Van Orden had a run in with a Code Pink protestor at the RNC. Police video later showed that it was the most minor of bumps ever. Does that play in the fall? Does that still matter?

Scot Ross:
I don't think, I mean, I think it…

Bill McCoshen:
No.

Scot Ross:
Builds into — I think it builds into Derrick Van Orden's reputation as an unhinged embarrassment to the state of Wisconsin. Every time he opens his mouth, it embarrasses the state of Wisconsin — the stunts, whether it's attacking an LGBTQ librarian, you know, a teen librarian over the fact that they had LGBTQ books, and a guy who went and then checked all those books out, so that nobody could get them. What he did in the Capitol Rotunda in terms of attacking teenage Senate pages in a drunken, you know, in a drunken rampage. Maybe that's a little strong, maybe a little strong, but he did it, and again, the way that this all works. Bryan Steil is withholding the video of that, and will not release it, will not release the Capitol video of that. When a Democrat last year pulled a fire alarm, that video somehow got out two weeks later. It's been over a year. Bryan Steil, release the Van Orden videos.

Bill McCoshen:
Let me say this. First of all, for your viewers, so they understand, the congressional maps did not change. Only the legislative maps changed. This is a 56/57% Republican seat. Donald Trump has won it twice. Derrick Van Orden is the favorite. I'm proud to support a seven-time combat vet who's a Navy SEAL. If you ask any farmer in western Wisconsin what they think about Derrick Van Orden, they're going to say, "He's our guy, That he's our guy."

Scot Ross:
Well, I look forward to the Republicans praising Tim Walz for his record because they, you know, poo-pooed 24 years and claimed that he was doing stolen valor, for God's sakes.

Zac Schultz:
And Van Orden's been leading the charge on that…

Scot Ross:
Exactly.

Zac Schultz:
Online.

Bill McCoshen:
Because it's true. He did make, he's embellished his record, what his final rank was, whether or not he served in combat. It's easy to prove. Did you ever receive combat pay, yes, or no? His answer has to be no.

Scot Ross:
He never claimed to be in combat. He only…

Bill McCoshen:
He did.

Scot Ross:
The…

Bill McCoshen:
He did.

Scot Ross:
Again, it is a rolling standard because at first, Derrick Van Orden and the Republicans were attacking Gov. Walz because his…

Bill McCoshen:
He's told so many lies…

Scot Ross:
Because his…

Bill McCoshen:
Keep track of 'em anymore.

Scot Ross:
Because his troops went to Iraq…

Bill McCoshen:
After he pulled the chute.

Scot Ross:
Five months after he said he was going to.

Bill McCoshen:
Yeah, but he knew in September the year before, according to his commanding officer, that they were going to deploy.

Zac Schultz:
All right, that was the third. We still have more congressional…

Scot Ross:
Yes.

Zac Schultz:
Districts to get to. Fortunately, we still have more time this week. We'll be back tomorrow. Bill, Scot, thank you for today. I promise we'll have more time for that tomorrow. Appreciate that, and be sure that you come back tomorrow. You'll find us here each day this week, and tune into PBS' evening coverage of the convention, where Here & Now will have another update on the day's events. And finally, join us on Friday to wrap up the week with a special one-hour presentation of Here & Now starting at 7:00 p.m. I'm Zac Schultz. Have a great day. Thank you so much for joining us, and hopefully, we'll see you back here tomorrow.