Zac Schultz:
As governor, you could have a Democratic Legislature behind you. In that case, what's AB 1? What's the first bill you want to sign?

Mandela Barnes:
Well, as I said, the first priority is BadgerCare expansion right away, day one, special session if necessary. I refuse to sign a state budget that does not include BadgerCare expansion if we have not already gotten to that point. We're one of nine states — we are one of nine states that has yet to expand our Medicaid program under the Affordable Care Act. It's a travesty that that is not the case. Republicans and Legislature have denied people the care that they deserve, and for the life of me cannot understand why. I look at states like Louisiana. They actually did it through Gov. John Bel, former Gov. John Bel Edwards did it through executive order. His Republican predecessor? You know, when you sign an executive order, the risk you run is that your successor can actually overturn that executive order. His Republican successor has not overturned that executive order that expanded their Medicaid program, and it's because he knows that his constituents, his voters, rely on that Medicaid expansion. They rely on that support, or else they will be priced out of care. So, for the last — what, it'll be 17 years now — Republicans have done a disservice not just to people in Milwaukee and Madison, as they want to make it seem, they've done a disservice to their own voters. That dereliction of duty shows how unfit they are for office. Tom Tiffany was in the Legislature. He could have voted to expand Medicaid. He could have shown some leadership if he truly cared about costs for people in Wisconsin. And it's another reason why, you know, this election is so important. Even voting to force the vote in Congress for the ACA premiums, it shows a dismissal of the actual concerns that people have. And if you're dismissing the concerns of people in a state before, you know, as a candidate, if you're dismissing the real concerns of people in Wisconsin, then how can you see yourself fit to actually serve the people when they've told you exactly what's important to them — what would improve quality of life, what would help them out, what would effectively be a lifeline for so many people. You refuse to throw that lifeline, it shows that you just might not be ready for leadership.

Zac Schultz:
Conversely, though, there could be Republicans in charge of at least one chamber of the house. So what's your track record for working across the aisle?

Mandela Barnes:
Yeah, I mean, even out of office, I've been working with a bipartisan group on democracy reform because there are a lot of folks, sometimes both sides of the aisle, who may make comments, may say certain things, or, you know, we've seen these issues, obviously January 6th, but other instances where people call into question integrity of elections and campaigns. And with the bipartisan group, we've worked to instill more confidence in the electoral process. We've worked with local electoral officials, election officials I should say, excuse me. We've worked with bipartisan groups of lawmakers to strengthen our democracy. I'm happy to work with whoever. My goal is not just to be representative of the Democratic Party. My goal is to represent the state of Wisconsin and the issues that are important to the people that live here and advancing an agenda that helps to make things better, make things easier for people in this time of crisis. The fact is, partisanship has taken us down this road that has effectively left far too many people behind. And in this moment, people are calling for leadership, not party leaders. And until we have that sort of understanding, things may just get tougher for people. We need to usher in a new era of leadership that is responsive to people over party.

Zac Schultz:
Right now, the Public Service Commission is looking at billions of dollars of rate increases, and there's data center proposals. How would you like to address those issues?

Mandela Barnes:
Well, I can tell you we need to have a real tough look at the PSC, but unfortunately, we see PSC commissioners who, you know, have been a little bit hesitant because they saw what happened when somebody took a bold stance. You know, Tyler Huebner, right? He, quote-unquote, "got out of line," and Republican state senators fired him from his position. All because, you know, he dared to stand up for the people of Wisconsin and do the right thing. There are PSC commissioners that don't want to see a similar fate, who want to do the right thing, but if they're not in those seats, they can't do the right thing, they can't do anything. And so I think that it is important, again, for us to have a majority in the state Legislature, both houses specifically, but especially the state Senate, who has that ability, unfortunately, to control the fate of certain people in certain appointed positions. We need leaders who are there, who are going to be committed to ensuring the best-case scenario for ratepayers. It is my goal — you know, these positions are every six year, I think the next one isn't up until 2030. With that being the case, I want to ensure that whoever is filling the seats on the Public Service Commission is going to have a real dedication to keeping costs low for people and also ensuring that we have the most options in terms of renewable energy. It's a resource here that we have an opportunity to invest in. As I mentioned before, a significant portion of our energy generation comes from coal. There are no coal hills in Wisconsin. You know, there's no oil here for people to drill. But there are resources. And you know, it's hard to say it on a day like today, but there is sun, and we do have opportunities with wind energy. Iowa — Republican-controlled state — they've gone all in on wind. I do believe that there are not just opportunities for wind and solar, but also geothermal, some larger industrial or even at the scale of a school district and school building. They're investing in it because it saves money and it provides a significant return at a time where people are trying to cut costs or finding ways to be able to save money.

Zac Schultz:
And what about data centers?

Mandela Barnes:
Yep. So, data centers, it's important for us, if they are going to be built here, there has to be a community benefits agreement. If they are to come, that means ensuring that there's local hiring. That means ensuring that utility rates are not going up for customers. It also means ensuring that community input is prioritized. There shouldn't be data center construction if there's mass opposition from the communities that they are going to go in. This also means addressing concerns like water quality. Some of this comes down to messaging, too. Some of this comes down to research and making sure that the facts are out there for people. Nobody wants to feel like they're being taken advantage of, especially after we've had a Foxconn here in Wisconsin. People have felt let down, people have been frustrated. There are those who may say, "Well, yeah, these data center operations feel sort of similar. It feels as if they're coming into my community and I don't have a say-so." And when people feel like they don't have a say-so, when people feel powerless, that effectively makes people lose trust and faith in our democracy. If we lose the faith and trust in democracy, then what are we as a state? Who are we as a country? So, it's important for any operation that looks to construct a data center to have input and support and buy-in from the community that they're going in. A community benefits agreement is a broad-based approach that gets us to a point where there is a level of agreement before that construction happens. But we can't just have communities that feel as if they're being taken advantage of.

Zac Schultz:
When it comes to public education, is it just a matter of funding, or does there need to be an overhaul?

Mandela Barnes:
Oh, man, there's so much in public education, but we haven't reached our two-thirds funding pledge that the state is technically mandated to provide for public schools. Talk about my public school experience — my public school was a challenged public school. And I've said before, there's no such thing as a failing school, just a failed community. If we have students who are showing up to school hungry, students who are showing up to school homeless, like, there was at one point, at least in the last 10 years, could still be the case, I haven't seen recent numbers, but one in nine Milwaukee Public Schools students were homeless. This is within the last 10 years. It could still be the case now, could even be worse. If our students aren't showing up to school on level playing field, that creates a significant disadvantage that dictates educational outcomes. Now, we have world-class K-12 education right here in the state of Wisconsin. But if you were to go to some of these school buildings and go three to five miles down the road, it's a completely different story. And it's not because of the brick-and-mortar of that school building. It is about what resources one community has versus another. I believe that every school in the state of Wisconsin can be a world-class school, but it takes the investment. We can't compare students who have every single need met versus those who have hardly any needs met. We have to invest in the whole child. And that's the kind of overhaul that I'm looking at. Ensuring that all of our students are fed, all of our students are housed, all of our students have the health care, mental and physical health care, and make sure that they have all their needs met so when they're showing up to school, they are ready to learn. So that when they go home, they have a foundation that retains the education that they got in that school building. Until we start looking at complete outcomes for all of our children, then the conversation about is it funding, is it not funding — it's immaterial.

Zac Schultz:
What would you like to see done with the voucher system?

Mandela Barnes:
Yep. It all comes down to accountability. That's the most important thing we can do — that has to be paramount. We have to ensure that there are structures in place that don't create a playing field where some schools operate by one set of rules and another set of schools operates by a different set of rules. Any public funding should come with public accountability, and that's the bottom line.

Zac Schultz:
Over the course of the last year, we've seen the Wisconsin Supreme Court strip back a lot of legislative oversight in the rulemaking process, and some claim that's unbalanced now. What would you like to see done? Do you think there needs to be some more legislative oversight, or are you happy with the way it stands now?

Mandela Barnes:
Well, sometimes we see politically charged or politically motivated what effectively feels like witch hunts. As I mentioned with the PSC. As I mentioned, with, you know, now Sen. Brad Pfaff, who was the secretary of the Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection. Legislative oversight is necessary. I don't believe that all the power should rest in the executive branch. I feel, of course, there should be a balance. But too often, you have those who are leading legislative chambers who feel as if they want to have even more power than the executive, just because the executive is not a member of their party. If you remember, in 2018, right after we were elected, Gov. Evers and myself, they went into special session to take away power from the attorney general's office. They went into special session to take away power from the governor's office. That was politically motivated, that wasn't based in fundamentals of democracy. So if it's politically motivated, no, we have to pump the brakes there, but if we're actually talking about strengthening democracy, I'm all for it.

Zac Schultz:
When it comes to local funding for local governments, what needs to happen there from a state level?

Mandela Barnes:
Well, there's long been a funding flaw that has made it more difficult for municipalities to be able to get the resources or even the money that goes in Madison to come back at the same rate. This has been an issue in Milwaukee. That's why we've seen the raise in sales tax in the city of Milwaukee and Milwaukee County. But that didn't change the formula. The percentage is still the same. So effectively, there's even more money coming in. But at a time also, when people are feeling the pinch, you know, at the grocery store or anytime they're at any checkout counter, now we have this increased sales tax, which is making it even harder for people. But the reason that is the case is because Madison has failed, and the Legislature has failed to actually implement a real solution to make it easier for municipalities to get the support they deserve. We're going to be convening a group of local elected officials, of mayors, very soon to be able to have this conversation, have this discussion in a real way. I have not served in local office. At one point, I was a receptionist in Mayor Tom Barrett's office, but I've never served in local office, and I'm not going to sit here and claim to be an expert on local government funding and financing. But I do want to come to a solution with those who are managing city budgets every single day to be able to provide the best solution to ensure that city services go on. Especially at a time like this, where we had an earlier snow than usual and some communities snowplows were a little bit late, and it's because government and local, excuse me, cities and some counties have been unable to hire the people they need to be able to get out on the streets to keep our roads safe and clear.

Zac Schultz:
Right now in northern Wisconsin, there's multiple mining operations where they're doing drilling to look at future mine potential. The mining law was changed before you came into office. Do you think that mining law is good, or would you like to see any overhaul there?

Mandela Barnes:
Well, again, we need to make sure that there are environmental protections. We can look at this the same way as we had that data center conversation. There has to be community buy-in and community input. For people who have, you know, made their homes in an area — 20, 30 years passed down generation to generation — I think that folks should have some input on what happens in their backyard. All I'm saying is have the conversation. That's the important part. We've gotten away from having the conversation. Like, some people don't want to have conversations 'cause they can be difficult, right? I think the difficult conversations are probably the most necessary ones to have. So when we have those times where mining may come up, in a part of the state, yeah, we'll talk to the community, like, let's talk it out, because only thing that happens is more resentment if that conversation doesn't happen.

Zac Schultz:
Do you have any concerns about your own safety in this political environment?

Mandela Barnes:
Well, we are in a politically charged environment, and it's kind of hectic out there. I had somebody, I had threats before that were made to me. It's not a fun thing to experience, and you know, it's always back of mind. But I can tell you, I'm focused on doing what's right. I'm going to continue to stay focused on what's doing right. Violence is absolutely a problem. It's an issue, it's something that we cannot ignore, but I can't let that slow me down either.

Zac Schultz:
What's your plan to increase affordable housing?

Mandela Barnes:
So the plan to increase affordable housing is to ensure that we put a stop on corporate monopolies that are buying up wholesale properties. This is going on in Milwaukee. These monopolies are making it difficult for first-time homeowners. These monopolies are making it easy, or excuse me, making it more difficult for people to be able to afford rent. Because if they own all the properties, they can price people out, or just charge whatever they want to charge, and where else are people gonna go? That's the first thing we got to do.

Zac Schultz:
When it comes to the Department of Corrections plan that Gov, Evers has in place, would you keep that going forward?

Mandela Barnes:
Yeah — speak specifically about that plan.

Zac Schultz:
His plans to shut down Green Bay eventually and build new facilities or overhaul some facilities, but not build a brand new corrections facility.

Mandela Barnes:
Yeah, so with Green Bay, I know that there are a number of safety concerns, structural concerns. Of course, I mean, we can't have people, or even whether you're a person who's housed at that facility or a person who's working at that facility, we can't have people in substandard conditions. So the overhaul of smaller facilities, more regional facilities, I think that might get us to a place where we can more effectively rehabilitate people. And that has to be our baseline as well, ensuring that rehabilitation actually happens.

Zac Schultz:
What would you like to see in terms of Wisconsin's abortion law?

Mandela Barnes:
Well, Wisconsin's 1849 criminal abortion ban, it shouldn't be in place, for one. This is something that came at a time where women couldn't vote, you know, Black people couldn't vote. There were a lot of people who were kept out of democracy when we had our 1849 criminal abortion ban, which should be immediately disqualifying on its face. And that law was triggered by the Dobbs decision. I would love to see this country get back to a pre-Dobbs era because Roe was the law of the land that was generally accepted by Democrats, of course. But even Republicans who didn't necessarily like abortion, wasn't their thing, Roe was sort of a compromise for them and something they felt comfortable with.