The School of Greatness with Lewis Howes

Howes: Hi.

I'm Lewis Howes, New York Times bestselling author and entrepreneur.

And welcome to "The School of Greatness," where we interview the most influential minds and leaders in the world to inspire you to live your best life today.

In this episode, we sit down with Robert Herjavec, bestselling author, serial entrepreneur, and one of the original investors on "Shark Tank."

Today, he's here to share how he turned a rough childhood where he struggled with poverty and bullying into an extraordinary life of abundance, why hard work alone will never make you rich, and how to shift your mind-set so you can start building real financial freedom.

Herjavec: I remember the first day of school and kids picking on me, making fun of me and telling me I'm a poor immigrant.

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: It was my mom and dad escaping from a country, coming to Canada on a boat with one suitcase.

Didn't speak the language.

Had no money.

My dad was in jail.

Could never go back.

Poverty wasn't my mind-set.

Howes: So let's dive in and let the class begin.

How do you learn to go from, I guess, a poverty situation and turn it into an abundance mind-set?

Like, when does that learn switch for you of, like, "We're in poverty," whether you knew it or not, but you had a poverty mind-set -- or maybe you didn't, but you're in experiencing poverty.

When does that switch on to abundance-of-wealth mind-set?

Herjavec: It's a great question.

And -- That's a great question.

Somebody asked me yesterday, 'cause they knew my story -- I went for a medical, and the nurse was like, "Oh, my God.

I read about your story.

And you came to Canada with nothing," blah, blah, blah.

"It must've been so hard."

And the truth is it wasn't.

I mean, it was my mom and dad escaping from a country, coming to Canada on a boat with one suitcase, and I'm the only child.

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: So for them, absolutely horrifically hard.

Didn't speak the language.

Had no money.

My dad was in jail.

Could never go back.

The whole nine yards.

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: Comes to a country, doesn't know anybody.

Doesn't speak the language.

Now, I'm 8 years old.

First time on a boat.

Howes: It's an adventure.

Herjavec: It's an adventure.

Howes: Interesting.

Herjavec: Poverty wasn't my mind-set.

And I think that's a big difference.

I think people that are born into poverty or encompassed in poverty, it's harder to get out of.

My mind-set was joy.

Howes: Really?

Herjavec: So, I grew up on a small village with my grandma, like the traditional vision of poverty, with dirt floors.

We didn't have a phone.

Like, it was one of those -- Like, it was a village.

There was one phone.

If you wanted to get ahold of my grandmother, you called the guy with the phone, and he came running.

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: But I didn't know we were poor because everybody around me lived like we lived.

So... Howes: In joy.

I mean, everyone around you lived the same.

Herjavec: The same, so it wasn't you were rich, I was poor.

We all lived in a literal dirt floor, outhouse... It was fine.

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: But as a child, we had animals, and it was joy.

I didn't realize that we were poor until we came to Canada.

And when I went to school -- I remember this so clearly.

I don't remember the journey.

I don't remember any of it.

My mom thinks I blocked it all out.

But I remember the first day of school and kids picking on me and making fun of me and telling me I'm a poor immigrant.

Howes: Wow.

First day of school?

Herjavec: First day of school.

Howes: You don't speak English either at this point, right?

Herjavec: Back then, there was no English classes, so they just threw you in and... Howes: That must have been kind of terrifying, also.

Herjavec: Terrifying.

Howes: I don't know... What's this teacher saying?

What are these kids saying?

Herjavec: And I came from an environment where I was really a lot of fun.

My dad was the youngest of 15.

Tons of cousins, and I go into an environment where I literally don't speak the language and kids are making fun of me.

I really don't know why they're making fun of me.

So I learned poverty and I learned poor as a situation.

So I never thought I was poor.

I just thought the situation we were in is poor.

And I know it's a very subtle difference, but I think you learn your mind-set.

And I think poverty is a learned mind-set, and I think abundance is a learned mind-set.

I didn't learn a wealth mind-set until later on, and I always think if I would have learned an abundance mind-set sooner, I would be much wealthier today.

Howes: Wow.

So, what is a poverty or poor mind-set versus a wealth or abundance mind-set?

What do they both encompass?

Herjavec: The beginning, for me, is a poverty mind-set is when you believe you're poor or you believe that you are the cause of the situation you're in... Howes: Mm.

Herjavec: ...or you believe that external circumstances have made you what you are.

I never believed I was poor.

I just believed our current situation was poor.

Howes: Really?

Herjavec: So I just -- I got to a point where I didn't want to be in that situation anymore.

But there was nothing wrong with me.

My mom loved me.

I was a good human being.

I just had to get out of the situation.

Howes: So how do you learn, then, to get out of a situation of, I guess, poverty or not having a lot?

How do you learn... Is it a skill?

Is it a shift of energy?

Is it a shift in thinking that allows you to get out of that situation?

Is it a shift of "I need to act in a different way"?

"I need to become something different in order to create abundance"?

What does that shift look like?

Herjavec: Yeah.

That's a great question too.

Howes: And how old were you when you were like, "Okay.

I'm not poor personally, but I'm in an environment that isn't thriving"?

Herjavec: Probably around 12.

Howes: Okay.

Herjavec: Because it was just such a crappy environment and we had no money.

And at that point, I'd been poor, in my mind, for four years.

And we constantly moved schools.

So, you know, when you're an immigrant, you make a little bit of money, you live in a crappy apartment.

You make a little bit of money, you live in a better apartment, and so on.

So by 12, I'd gone to like three different high schools.

And my dad worked unbelievable amount of hours -- like two shifts and... Howes: Manual labor, I'm assuming.

Herjavec: Yeah.

Blue collar.

Howes: Contractor.

Herjavec: Factory.

Swept floors.

I mean, eventually he became a millwright.

Taught himself.

Somebody gave him an opportunity.

And, you know, they paid off their house, which was, you know, the immigrant dream.

Howes: Right.

Herjavec: But I think at 12, I'd been living like that for four years.

And we went to a better high school, and every time we went to a better school, the kids around me had more.

Howes: They're richer.

Yeah.

Herjavec: Yeah.

Howes: You're like, "I've got a little more, but they've got a lot more."

Herjavec: I'd be in this high school, and we'd make a little bit of money, and I was poor, but, you know, the other kids weren't that much better off.

And then we'd move to a better house, and now the kids were way better off.

And I was just like, "Wow.

I'm never gonna get out of this cycle.

How do you get out of this cycle?"

Howes: Do you feel like you've gotten out of that cycle at this season of your life?

Because as you start to generate wealth, you're around people that have a million dollars, then a hundred million dollars, then billions.

And you're like... Do you find yourself kind of still in that at some times?

Herjavec: Very, very true.

You know, there's -- What's the saying?

You are the net result of five people you hang out with.

And I think it's really true.

I think that you are... It's very, very, very rare and hard to raise yourself up on your own.

I think if your environment, your parents, your friends are constantly pulling you back, it's hard to keep going.

Like, I think back, and I think... none of my friends I grew up with ever "made it."

And it would've been so easy to stay there.

But I think as you do more and you get more, your circle of influence and your friends becomes wider.

Howes: Right.

So, when was that switch, then, for you?

You're 12.

You start to become aware that "Okay.

We're moving around, but I'm still in this poor environment compared to everyone else around me."

Was it an energy shift, a thinking shift, or an action shift that allowed you to say, "I'm now creating abundance in my life"?

Herjavec: Yeah.

That's a great question.

For me, it was an energy shift.

Now, I've always been pretty high energy, right?

So I've always been like, "Go, go, go, go."

What I didn't realize at the time was I was looking for external things to make me better.

It took me a long time to realize I can't... I can't take external things to make me better until I become better.

Howes: Mm-hmm.

Herjavec: I always say show me a small business in trouble, and I'll show you an entrepreneur in trouble.

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: It's very, very difficult to disassociate a lazy, unmotivated entrepreneur with a highly successful business and vice versa.

And that was me at 12.

I was just pure energy, bouncing off the walls.

You know, like we talked about, I wanted to be a detective.

I wanted to join the FBI.

I wanted to be an actor, because immigrants think if you're on TV, you're rich.

Like, I just wanted not to be poor, but I didn't know how to be rich.

Howes: Interesting.

Herjavec: And I didn't understand that mind-set.

And as corny as it sounds, it always starts with you.

It always starts with discipline.

It starts with habit.

It starts with learning.

Howes: So what did you start learning to support you from going to poor to abundance mind-set?

Sales?

Howes: Really?

Herjavec: Yeah.

Sales.

People always think I'm wealthy because I'm really good at computers.

And I am.

I'm probably one of the handful of the top cyber people in the world.

But I'm not wealthy because of my knowledge of a task.

I'm wealthy because of my knowledge of sales and how to get -- how to sell what I'm doing to other people.

Howes: What was the first lesson you learned in sales or the first sale you ever made in life?

Herjavec: You can't force somebody to buy something they fundamentally don't need.

I was very lucky that way, because if I would've been taught the used-car-salesman schlocky way -- I mean, I was just hungry for knowledge.

Like, I would have gone any way.

I always think if somebody would have taken me under their wing and they were, like, a con man, I would've been a con man!

Howes: Con man.

[ Laughs ] Herjavec: Right.

I was just very lucky.

Like, you and I talked about it.

I got to learn from a guy named Harry Rosen, who was a legend in Canada.

Owned the biggest men's.

And he was just a nice human being.

So, I went there to buy a suit, and it was like -- This was a long time ago.

It was like $1,200.

Howes: You're like, "This is crazy."

Herjavec: I'm like, "Oh, my God.

I can't afford $1,200.

That's more money than I'll make this month" kind of thing.

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: And the salesman said to me, "You know, if you work here, you get to buy one suit every six months at 50% off."

Howes: Mm.

Herjavec: So I was like, "Great."

So I got a part-time job there.

And I got a job there, and the guy who owns the place, called Harry Rosen -- Now it's a multibillion-dollar company, but Harry used to teach on Saturdays.

If you showed up an hour before the store opened, he would teach you how to dress.

Howes: That's cool.

Herjavec: You'll love this.

So, like, the guy's a legend.

Even then, it was, like, the biggest shop in Canada.

And he says, "Show up at 7:30," because the store opened at 9:00, "and I'll teach you everything you need to know about dressing well and how to sell to men."

And I'm, like... Like, I'm so excited.

I leave.

It was, like, a Wednesday.

I show up on Saturday.

Nobody there.

Nobody there.

So it's just him and I. Howes: Wow.

No one else shows up.

Herjavec: No one else shows up.

So later in the day, I say to my buddy, "Hey.

How come nobody showed up?"

You know what he says?

"No one's paying me to show up."

Howes: Ah.

Interesting.

Herjavec: Isn't that interesting?

Howes: Your friend?

Herjavec: My friend.

Howes: "Unless I'm getting paid -- I show up at 9:00 'cause I get paid at 9:00."

Herjavec: Yeah.

"I don't get paid."

Howes: Interesting.

Herjavec: "I don't get paid."

What I heard is "I don't get paid."

He said "I don't get paid to learn."

Howes: Uh-huh.

Herjavec: And I always thought I don't need to get paid to learn.

I'll learn for free.

Howes: I'll pay to learn from the best.

Herjavec: Yeah.

Like, I thought -- I would've paid him to teach me.

It was great.

He taught me everything.

He taught me everything -- how to dress, how to spot someone with money.

So I've always been lucky that I kind of found -- Then I worked for Warren Avis, who started Avis Rent A Car.

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: And... Like, I've just been really fortunate to have great role models who are good human beings.

Howes: I mean, those two, I guess, mentors, people you worked for, they both have billion-dollar brands now, right?

Multiple-billion-dollar brands?

Herjavec: Yes.

Howes: That's kind of rare that when you're in your teens, early 20s, you randomly -- Is it a random thing or do you just know, "Oh, this guy could be something one day"?

That's pretty impressive.

Herjavec: I just... Howes: You could've worked anywhere.

You could've worked at a local restaurant or barbershop that wouldn't have been this mega-billion-dollar business, but you worked for these two guys.

Herjavec: That's a great question.

I think, "How did I end up there?"

right?

'Cause I think back, and I think, "None of my buddies got a job in a men's --" Like, what... And so if I think about it, what I've always been good at is not lying to myself.

I think I've always been brutally honest with myself.

Like I told you, on my first sales call, I went to see a customer, and the customer said to me, "You dress like crap."

I've never had an ego for success.

So if somebody said something to me and there was even an ounce of truth to it, I would take it in.

I would leave my ego at the door.

So when somebody said to me, "You dress like crap," it wasn't, like, "Oh, I'm so offended.

What are they talking about?"

It was, like, "Oh.

Do I dress like crap?"

And then you go home and you look in the mirror, and you're like, "Yeah.

I dress like crap.

How do I get better?"

And then I just looked up the best men's store.

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: So I've always had an ability, I think, to be honest with myself.

There's a saying that the biggest lies in life we tell are the ones we tell ourselves.

Howes: Mm.

What's been the biggest lie you've been telling yourself lately?

Herjavec: Um, that I'm... The biggest lie I've been telling myself lately is that, uh, I've made it.

Howes: Mm.

Herjavec: I got to a point where I felt like I've kind of made it.

And just in the last few months, I've been thinking, "Hang on a sec."

'Cause you tend to -- You know, like, I'm older now.

I'm 62.

And you think, "Oh, I'm kind of at the end of the road," because I know a lot of older people who are super successful, and they're, like, kind of coasting.

And it begins to affect me, and I kind of went a few months where I'm like, "Yeah."

And then one day I'm like, "Hang on a sec."

Like, age is a number, and there's lots of people that can start something at this age and have more capital than I've ever had.

So yeah, I think I can still do it again.

Howes: Interesting.

The lie and telling yourself is you've made it.

But what is making it?

You know, when have you made it?

If someone looks at you or watches this and they're like, "If Robert doesn't think he's made it, with all the money he has, all the success from multiple industries, from TV to personal brand to social media" -- Everything you touch has blown up.

"If he doesn't think he's made it, I have no chance of making it."

Herjavec: That's such a great question, because you think about that.

When you're starting out, you always think, "Oh, if I had a bigger house..." Howes: Yeah.

Herjavec: Like, you know, you live here, and you drive by Bel Air.

Howes: Sure.

Sure.

Herjavec: And you think, "If I had a house over there, I've made it."

Or you have a... I don't know -- a Corvette.

And you think, "Oh, if I had a Ferrari," and you think, "Oh, if I had a jet."

And then you have a jet, and then you think, "What if I have a bigger jet?"

Howes: [ Laughing ] Herjavec: Like, when I sold my last company, in my mind, I had a... What did I have?

I had a...a G4.

Howes: Right.

Herjavec: Right.

And I used to think -- I mean, this is how shallow it was.

I used to think, "Oh, if I had a G6..." Howes: [ Laughing ] Come on.

Herjavec: "...then..." Howes: "Then I've made it."

Herjavec: "...I've made it."

Because my G4, my G5... And so I sold the business, and literally within two weeks I bought a G6.

And this was a long time ago.

Now I think... I don't think in terms of things of making it.

I think in terms of potential.

So when I think I haven't made it, I don't think I've reached my potential.

So I don't -- There is no car I want to buy or no jet I need to buy or no home I need to buy to fulfill me.

What I need is I need to feel like I've drained every part of my potential.

I want to feel like when I'm on my deathbed that I say, "I couldn't have done more."

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: And whatever that is.

'Cause I think it's different for everybody.

Howes: Yeah.

Herjavec: So for me right now, it's really about getting super fit.

It's about starting another business.

It's just about taking everything I've learned and applying it.

Howes: We need to cultivate the talents and gifts within us to pursue that dream.

And in that pursuit, I think it's... It doesn't have to be changing the world, but it needs to be changing the world around you, impacting the world in a positive way around you.

And if that's five people, your family, that's beautiful.

So I think that's what your mom and dad did.

They impacted you and the people in their community 'cause that was their reach.

And you've been given different gifts and talents that you've cultivated and maximized to this level, and you feel like you've got to maximize more, to the next level.

And in that pursuit of the new dream, how will you impact people around you, the people closest to you but also the platform you've been building?

How will you impact those individuals as well?

Herjavec: So well said, because I think, you know, it goes back to God and faith.

I think that... there's no one external that's going to do it for you.

But the signs are there.

Howes: Yes.

Herjavec: And you never know how the dots connect until you look back.

Howes: That's true.

Herjavec: When I first... When Kevin and I first got on "Shark Tank" -- We started in Canada, and we started this show called "Dragons' Den."

And the very first day, they put me in a room, you know, just to see how you'd react on TV, like this.

And they throw these fire questions, like, "Tell me what EBITDA is."

Howes: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Herjavec: But they were random questions, and one of the questions was, "Why do you want to be famous?"

Howes: Mm!

What did you say?

Herjavec: Just to see what you'd say.

What I said is, "So I can get on 'Dancing With the Stars.'"

Howes: Shut up.

You did not say that.

Herjavec: And everybody laugh-- I did, 100%.

Everybody laughed and thought that was funny.

What people didn't see was 10 years before that, my mom's favorite show was "Dancing With the Stars."

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: So imagine a little Eastern European immigrant woman, horrible life, watching this beautiful show with these beautiful dancers.

Like, if you called my house on a Monday when the show was on, my mom would, like, answer the phone and go, like, "Why you call?"

You know, "I watch show."

Howes: Mm-hmm.

Herjavec: My mom ended up getting ovarian cancer.

And she went to the hospital, and she was there for a year.

And every Monday, I would go to the hospital with the other women who had ovarian cancer, and we'd all watch "Dancing With the Stars."

Howes: Oh, my gosh.

Wow.

Herjavec: And one day, my mom says to me, "Robbie, you're so beautiful.

Why not you be on show?"

And I say, without thinking about it, "If they ever ask me, I'll do it for you, Mom."

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: And my mom passes away -- 10 years before I even had an inkling of being on TV.

Fast-forward 10 years later.

I'm sitting in a room.

They throw that question at me.

First thing that comes to my mind.

Fast-forward another 10 years.

I'm going through this horrible time.

I come out of it, fix myself, finally begin to think I have value in life again.

Howes: Mm.

Herjavec: Three days later, the producers of "Dancing With the Stars" asked me to be on the show.

Howes: Oh, my gosh.

Herjavec: Like, before they're finished asking me, I say yes.

Howes: [ Laughing ] Oh, my gosh.

Herjavec: I walk in... Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: ...meet the woman I'm gonna marry, and today I have this unbelievable life.

I didn't create those dots.

I believe life or a greater force or God -- whatever your faith is -- created those things but it was up to me to connect the dots.

And I think for anybody watching or listening, you have the power to connect those dots.

Howes: Wow.

Herjavec: You have to have enough faith to believe it all connects.

Howes: This question I ask everyone.

This one is called the Three Truths.

Imagine you get to live as long as you want to live in this world but it's your last day eventually, in the future, and you get to create and accomplish all of your dreams from this moment until that last day.

But on this last day, for whatever reason, hypothetically, you've got to take all of your content with you.

So all of your social-media content, this interview, your books that you've written is all gone.

So no one has access to your information anymore.

But on the last day, you get to leave behind three truths, three things you know to be true, kind of the three lessons you'd leave behind for everyone.

And that's all we would have to remember your content by.

What would those three truths be for you?

Herjavec: Number one, my family, because they are -- especially my kids -- they're the embodiment of... I hope they're the embodiment of what I am.

Howes: Mm.

Herjavec: Number 2 is joy.

Howes: Yes.

Herjavec: Without joy, there is no life.

Like, there is no misery in... You know, there is no wealth in misery.

How many successful people are miserable, right?

And I think you can spike to success but if you don't have joy, it fades.

And how many successful people commit suicide and drugs and alcohol?

Joy is everlasting.

Howes: Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Herjavec: And I think the third one... is empowerment.

I think if... You would hope that when you leave that you've empowered somebody in their life to do something better.

Howes: If today's conversation moved you, there's so much more where that came from.

Make sure to scan the QR code on the screen or visit greatness.com/tv to follow the "School of Greatness" podcast and sign up for our free newsletter.

And stay tuned for more episodes on "The School of Greatness" right here on public television.

Again, my name is Lewis Howes, and if no one has told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

Now it's time to go out there and do something great.