Roadtrip Nation

speaker: How do I know which path is best for me?

Is it possible to take on these challenges and obstacles?

Where do I even start?

Where do I even start?

What should I do with my life?

Sometimes the only way to find out is to go see what's possible.

Since 2001, we've been sharing the stories of people who ventured out and explored different career paths and different possibilities for their futures.

This is one of those stories.

This is "Roadtrip Nation."

[Dramatic music] Kay: I used to sit in the cell and just kinda, like, imagine being on the road.

Just imagine, like, interviewing people and being inspired.

I always wanted to be on Roadtrip Nation, and I never thought that I would be out of prison one day on the show.

Nichole: My educational journey is what completely changed the trajectory of my life.

[crowd cheering] Nurudeen: No matter what situation you're in, there's always a light at the end of the tunnel.

Kay: Higher education in prison is what allowed me to imagine even freedom.

We're three formerly incarcerated students from across the country who began their education while inside prison, and we're on a road trip to learn what other states are doing in prison education and meeting formerly incarcerated people who are thriving on the outside.

[Hopeful music] Kay: Let's go!

Nichole: My name's Nicole Alexander.

I am from Seattle, Washington.

I am a mom.

Kay: [laughs] Whats up?

Nichole: Hi, is this so cool, huh?

Kay: Finally!

Kay: My name is "Kay" Kun Lyna Tauch.

I am Cambodian-American.

I'm from Southern California, and I grew up in Long Beach, California, Cambodia Town.

Nurudeen: My name is Nurudeen Alabi.

I'm from Boston, Massachusetts.

I was the first graduate from Boston College's Prison Education Program.

Kay: What's up, bro?

[laughs] Nichole: Hey!

Kay: What's happening?

I like the shirt, bro, it's banging!

Kay: Woah!

Hey!

[laughs] Nurudeen: [laughs] Nichole: [laughs] Wooo!

[Door unlatching] Kay: We're on this road trip to show why prison education programs are important.

More than 95% of people eventually leave prison, and unfortunately, many of them end up going back, but if they participated in higher education programs while inside, they are 48% less likely to return.

We're beginning our journeys here in my home state in Southern California, but then we'll be going back to each of our hometowns to meet with formerly incarcerated leaders from our own communities.

Nichole: Then we're going to reunite in Denver to go inside a women's prison, where currently incarcerated people aren't just learning, they are also teaching.

Nurudeen: I was incarcerated when I was 17.

I did 15 years.

I used to be in gangs, so I never got a chance to finish high school.

I was deciding on changing my life.

I didn't know which route I wanted to go until the Boston College Prison Education Program came there.

I started the program in 2019, fell in love with the program just educational-wise.

It brought me outside of the prison.

Kay: My educational journey started in prison where a friend of mine kinda like tricked me into it, and that like sparked some amazing thirst for learning for me.

What I hope to offer people watching is that, like, even when you're scared, like, go for it.

Nichole: For me, I did the things that I had the opportunities to do.

I worked really hard for those opportunities, and kept doing the next thing that somebody would put in front of me.

The more that we give people the opportunity, the more that there's a yes, there's millions of more people out there that are amazing, hardworking, and can be successful.

Nichole: Meeting the two other road trippers was awesome.

Nurudeen is so quiet at first when you meet him, and then he comes to life.

Kay is just a ball of life all on his own.

Okay, lean in.

All: [Laughing] Our first interviews are here in California.

Thirteen of the state's 34 adult prisons have programs that award bachelor's degrees, and about 12% of California's incarcerated population is enrolled in college, more than any other state.

Nurudeen: We're going to speak to Romarilyn Ralston, the senior director of the Justice Education Center at Claremont Colleges.

Her program teaches classes inside prisons and provides support to people transitioning to college on campus.

Romarilyn: Hi, how are you?

Nichole: Good!

Romarilyn: Hi, good to see you.

Nurudeen: Good to see you too.

Romarilyn: Thanks for coming all the way out here.

We bring 50 to 60 students into the California rehabilitation center on a weekly basis to have their classes alongside incarcerated students every semester, and those students who are inside earn a Pitzer degree so when they come home, they can jump into a graduate program or jump into a career, but they can also show their family, their friends, and their community that they're more than just a formerly incarcerated person, they're a scholar.

Nichole: Looking back, right, when you started your journey, what do you know now that you wish you would have known then?

Romarilyn: Gosh, I was 24 when I went to prison, and I was recently released from the military, and I really didn't know how I was going to do a life sentence, but it was the women in that prison that really supported me and saw things within me that I really didn't see in myself because I was so full of shame and embarrassment and guilt, but I saw them in class, and I saw them participating in all kinds of leadership programs and really changing the environment and the landscape of the prison into something that they wanted it to be.

Kay: For those who are struggling to take that jump like you, what is the importance of Prison Education Programs, an then a follow up question, why is it important for that to transfer out here?

Romarilyn: Going through education, you learn certain skills like how to think critically, how to set a schedule, how to commit to a schedule, how to read and write with intentionality and to get your message across.

A school was such [sighs] a hard road for many people.

It was very traumatizing.

Many folks inside come from environments where some of the schools were very damaging, and with just helping someone enroll in one class, just try this, and once you get a taste of it, as you know, as I know, you know, it's mind-blowing.

You know, you say, "Well, I'm not stupid.

I can write, I can think, I can read.

What I have to say is valuable.

People are listening to me."

When I see people graduate, and when I hear your story and your story and your story, it's my story.

With opportunities, with basic needs, with community, we can have the lives that we've always should've had, could've had, need to have, and deserve to have.

[Hopeful piano music] Nurudeen: The main takeaway that I got from her is just like her energy, her personality.

She didn't let her history, her past deter her from where she wanted to go.

Kay: The brothers and sisters that we left behind, like, what do they need?

How do we support them?

Like, that's us.

That's our job next.

Romarilyn: In California, it's been because of the leadership of formerly incarcerated people that we've been able to do this.

We've been able to go to the Capitol, tell our stories, and get them to understand what is needed.

[Hopeful orchestra music] [Hopeful guitar music] Nichole: I'm really excited to head home to Seattle and go back inside to where my education started with inside the prison system.

Kay: I know we're going to our hometowns and we ain't gonna see each other in a while.

I just want y'all to know I'm gonna miss y'all, but I can't wait till we meet up in Denver, and like, please, updates, updates!

I need updates.

[Hopeful music] Kay: This is my first, like, legit s'more.

Nichole: Really?

Okay, y'all gotta come to the woods.

Nichole: You wanna do the wagon?

Coworker: Oh yeah, 'cause we have waters.

Nichole: I am the director of outreach and special initiatives with the CoLEAD Project at Purpose Dignity Action.

A lot of the time I go out to large homeless encampments and engage with folks, and I build relationship with folks with the ultimate goal of bringing folks inside.

Nichole: Good morning, hon!

How are you?

Do you want turkey, or peanut butter and jelly?

Person: Uh, turkey.

Nichole: Turkey, yo, she made that with love this morning.

You know, she did.

I too have been where they're at.

I was born and raised in Washington state.

By the time I was 16, I was getting arrested for drug activity.

I was a teen mom at 18.

Prison as a parent is probably the hardest part of being in prison.

You're gonna miss putting your kids to sleep, taking your kids to the park, or them learning to tie their shoes.

You don't get to make the decisions for your children.

You are a bystander in their life.

I did a decade, but I did it like coming out and going back in, coming out and going back in, and so that breaks everyone's trust.

Looking back at my former self, I hurt for her.

I knew that I wanted to do something different.

I knew that selling drugs was definitely not in my future anymore.

I had received an application, an actual paper application to Evergreen State College.

I was able to get three degrees in four years.

I completed my AA the summer quarter I came home.

I completed my undergrad in a year and a half at Evergreen State College, and then I went on to my master's in public administration, public policy.

That probably changed so much of my family's history that won't repeat again.

[crowd cheering] [knocking on door] Today, we're gonna be interviewing Tarra Simmons.

Tarra and I first met when we were both incarcerated at Mission Creek Corrections Center for Women.

After incarceration, Tarra went to law school.

Upon graduating, she had to appeal to the Supreme Court to be able to take the bar, where she successfully won, and later became the first elected official that has been formerly incarcerated.

Tarra Simmons: I've been able to vote on legislation that changes Pell Grant eligibility here in Washington, and helping to implement what the federal government has done recently with lifting the cap on Pell Grants while you're in prison so we can get more resources here from the federal government, because that's the number one antidote to recidivism is higher education, and people are there for rehabilitation, and we care about community safety and not wanting another victim, then we need to do our best while people are there, and higher education shouldn't be an afterthought, so I'm trying to change that, and maybe you'll testify on my bill.

Nichole: I will absolutely testify on your bill.

I know you and I share a lot of similarities.

You were a teen mom.

How about you describe your background a little bit for everybody just kind of so we know?

Tarra: I had very traumatic experiences from very early on going between my mother and my father.

My parents divorced before I was a year old.

My first year of life, probably about three months old, is when her and my father broke up and he was in jail, and that she was court ordered to actually take me to the jail and hold me up at the glass just so my father could see me.

If you go to the legislature and you look on the wall of all the former legislators, you know, it was all white men for a very, very long time, and then there was a woman, right, and then there was a person of color, but there was never a formerly incarcerated person.

Someone has to go first to kind of normalize it.

All identities really need to be represented.

We're a better government when we have different voices at the table.

Nichole: Even though I know Tarra, I did not know specifically that she was working on current education in the prison system, so I was really elated to hear that she's taking a hands-on approach with that.

Today we're at Mission Creek, where I have been incarcerated three times.

We are here today to tour the Butterfly Program and really dive into where my journey began.

While incarcerated, I was working with an endangered species, the Taylor checkerspot butterfly, doing research and breeding.

It's held under the Evergreen State College, and you earn credit.

The vibe that is there is something that builds you up.

Seeing the women here at Mission Creek is always emotional.

If you know somebody directly that you didn't know was in, it's kind of surprising sometimes.

Margaret: So we go through each day, we check the plants, we collect the eggs, and then each little pile of eggs goes in its own little egg cup with a piece of a leaf.

Once they develop, like, as we're going through every day, it's like, surprise, you open the cup, and it's like, they hatched!

For me, it was a really, like, blessed moment because it was like, I remember, like, I remember your mom!

All: [Laughing] Nichole: I know your mom!

Margaret: I know your mom, and like, I collected your eggs, and like, here you are.

Nichole: How did you get involved in the Butterfly Program?

Margaret: So, to be honest with you, my reason, my first inspiration to going into the butterfly program is when you came here and you spoke, and I heard you tell your story, and I heard that the butterfly program was something you participated in, and when I got a chance to talk to you, and I came and gave you a hug and you said, "Do the butterfly program, like, it's amazing, like, it changed my life, like, do it!"

And I really, like, admire you a lot, and I've seen how much growth and change and impact and how much of a blessing you've been to so many people's lives.

Butterflies have always been a huge thing for me in my life, and especially with the process of like recovery.

You go from being a caterpillar that's like struggling, and like, you're in your addiction and you're in the streets, and you're going through all these challenges and struggles, and then like you go into recovery, and like, it's like this cocoon, and like you metamorphosize.

You change from this little creeping guy to this wonderful, beautiful butterfly, you know, so that like coincided with me in my mind, like, maybe this is like that moment, you know what I mean?

For me, like, this is going to be a turning point and a pivot.

I don't think I would have given it a try because I would have not believed that I could.

[exhale] Nichole: Leaving everybody behind is heavy.

It's like literally like a feeling on your body.

Coming home has been a journey.

It took a long time to build trust with my kids.

It took a while for them to really believe that I wasn't going anywhere.

It took a lot of showing up, a lot of work, a lot of tears, a lot of hard conversations.

Antonyo: You're saying the truth, you know, and it's good to talk about it.

Nichole: Education gave me back my family, and every day we're trying to make up for the time that we lost.

Kay: When you're in prison, you start to get curious about who you are as a person.

My family is from Cambodia, and they escaped the Cambodian genocide in the late '70s and eventually came down to Long Beach, California.

The trauma that my parents experienced in the Cambodian genocide kind of leaked into what I dealt with in gang culture through the trauma of Cambodians killing Cambodians in America.

When I see another Cambodian person, I don't think family, I don't think friend, I don't think community, I think, "Am I safe?"

I found myself gravitating more and more to the streets.

I had a lot of like self-esteem issues, a lot of confusion about like who I was.

I committed a lot of harm, I committed a lot of crime, and it was the only life I knew.

I knew that one day I would either die or end up in prison.

In 2006, I committed my crime and harmed a whole community, a family, and took the life of a person.

At 18 years old, I was incarcerated and sentenced to 50 years to life, and I wish that I could say that immediately I turned over a new leaf in beginning to live a life that honors all the people that was harmed, but the truth is, I went to prison and it was normal.

It was something that I was conditioned to adapt to.

In 2014, I was sent to Pelican Bay.

It was labeled as one of the worst of the worst.

You're taught to be mean, angry, and vicious, but that place also became fertile land for growth and change.

When College of the Redwoods came to Pelican Bay, education was the first thing that got me.

The more I kept going to those classes, the more I kept falling in love with those classes.

Eventually I was transferred to California State Prison, Los Angeles County, where I was accepted to the Cal State LA program and got my bachelor's degree in communication, and that all started in Pelican Bay, in that pilot program with that initial teacher treating us like humans.

All right, we're here in Boyle Heights at the Boyle Heights Arts Conservatory.

We're about to interview Dara Yin who also grew up in Cambodia Town.

We actually grew up as rival gang members.

He just graduated with his master's degree in education.

He took me under his wing and mentored me.

Hey, what's up, bro?

You good?

Dara: I am also a Cambodian-American.

My mother and half-siblings escaped the genocide in Cambodia in the late 1970s, and my mother couldn't read or write in any language, but she did know that she needed help, so she knew that there was a big Cambodian community in Long Beach, so she took the whole family on a Greyhound, and you know, we moved to Long Beach.

We experienced a lot of prejudice and hate and grew up with a lot of racial tensions inside of the city, and that led to me being in the criminal gang lifestyle and making very bad decisions and hurting people, which ended up obviously leading me to prison.

Kay: You've been working with the youth.

You also work with API Rise.

You just got your master, like, how did you get there?

What was the turning point for you?

Dara: Education opened up my worldview.

The thought process that I had as a gang member is such a small viewpoint.

It mystified me that just because they was from another set that I had to force myself to dislike them, and that was tiring.

I told myself I had to take responsibility in what I did because I perpetuated it for such a long time.

Kay: You're talking about amends, right?

You're talking about building.

You're talking about, like, creating that community that we were missing.

What's so important about Long Beach to you?

Dara: Our history.

You know, 2 million Cambodians wiped off the earth, and here we are, you know, when we get to the city, and we do the same thing, right, because that trauma hasn't been addressed, right?

Kay: It's generational.

Dara: That's generational, right?

Like, when you remove the layers that we place on ourselves or even the structure of racism places on us, there's this kindness.

When we were inside, I would give you my last soup.

We're gonna break this soup, we're gonna eat it together, and I see that in our community.

There's this feeling of like lost unity.

Kay: After that conversation with Dara, I'm just sitting here reflecting about how life was, and how the things that we learned in prison, doing our time and being in community with each other, how can we utilize that to help our community?

I came home October 2nd, 2024.

A new law passed that gave the judge authority to call back whoever within his, you know, jurisdiction to see if they were redeemed, rehabilitated, and so when he called my name, like, I couldn't believe it.

It was something that I felt conflicted about because, like, how do you repay the harm you caused?

I feel like there's an obligation for me now.

The ultimate goal for me is to open up like a youth center in Long Beach, California.

The man who I am today is very intentional and feels a sense of obligation to the people that he once hurt and the community that he wants to build.

Kay: All right man, Nurudeen, you're next in Boston.

Nurudeen: Yeah, I know.

Kay: You ready for it?

Nurudeen: I can't wait.

Kay: Let's go!

Kay: We're three formerly incarcerated students from across the country who began their education while inside prison, and we're on a road trip to learn what other states are doing in prison education and meeting formerly incarcerated people who are thriving on the outside.

David Carrillo: Now that I'm out and I can come back in, I actually get to show that there's a path, right?

There's a way out through education.

Through real change, there's opportunity.