This Old House

Kevin: Today on "This Old House"... Tom: We're going to take this chimney down the opposite way it went up -- one brick at a time.

Kevin: And we'll hear the plan to restore the original Victorian character to our home.

Richard: And we'll learn how and why these historic gas lanterns are still in use here in Glen Ridge.

Man: Ahh, that's it.

Kevin: Hey, there.

I'm Kevin O'Connor, and welcome back to "This Old House."

Hey, Kaylen.

Kaylen: How you doing, Kevin?

Kevin: And we're starting a new project here in Glen Ridge, new Jersey.

This is a quaint little commuter town just across the river from New York City.

And this is our subject house, a Victorian built back in 1887.

And it still has some of the nice Victorian details, but many of them have been lost over the years.

And so part of the program is to bring them back.

And so that means some changes to our front porch, which we're going to hear about a little later, as well as changes to the siding.

This is not original and it's also asbestos, so it needs to be taken care of.

But for now, most of the work has started inside.

Our homeowners, Sunita and Shankar, have lived here for 27 years.

Hey, Luke.

Luke: Hey, Kevin.

Kevin: This is where they raised their family, but they decide that it is time to downsize.

But they're not moving out.

They're moving up because they're going to share their house with their daughter and her husband.

So two generations of living, lots of reconfiguration, and upstairs, lots of demolition.

The daughter, Asha, and her husband, Jason, are going to live here, primarily on the second floor.

They'll have a primary suite back there, so that bump out will be enlarged to make room for a bedroom and a bathroom.

We're also going to pick up some extra space here by taking this chimney all the way down to the ground.

So that means we'll have room for two more bedrooms and a shared bath up here so their family can grow.

And then, back here in this corner, shared laundry room.

Because remember, two families living here.

So mom and dad will be upstairs.

The staircase to the third floor no longer to code, so that means a new one is going to drop somewhere right about there.

Wow.

Demo is even further along up here.

This place is back to the studs.

Hey, Zack.

How are you?

Zack: Hey, Kevin.

How's it going?

Kevin: Going all right.

Tommy.

So, your crew has really made some progress with the demo.

Zack: Yeah, they've been doing a good job in only a week.

And check out these bottles they found in the walls.

Kevin: Oh, look at that.

Wine, huh?

We got a Bordeaux and another Bordeaux.

Zack: Look at the date on that.

That's the year the house was built.

Kevin: 1887.

Right there on the label.

Tom: Figure the builder might have been celebrating the completion of the framing.

Right?

Kevin: Yeah.

Homeowners are gonna be psyched to have these.

Zack: Absolutely.

Kevin: All right.

So, chimney work for you guys?

Tom: Yeah.

We got a little chimney work to do here.

Kevin: I got to excuse myself because I got architect work to do.

Zack: All right.

You enjoy those.

Tom: Don't break those bottles, sonny.

Zack: So let me ask you a question over here, Tommy.

Tom: Okay.

Zack: So, we started taking down the chimney, and as I was doing that, I was noticing these rafters behind us here and how small they are and how long the span is.

And I was a little concerned about what was holding this house up.

So we stopped taking down the chimney, and I wanted to get your opinion on that.

Tom: Well, like I always say, when in doubt, stop.

Zack: Right.

[ Both laugh ] Tom: Smart move.

Zack: Got that part right.

Tom: Well, if I look up at the ridge of the existing house right here, I can see that the ridge beam is in pieces.

I can see that the end of it is just caught or just into the chimney.

Ever so slightly.

Zack: Right.

Tom: So I don't see that as a structural ridge.

It's basically to hold the roof together at the peak.

Zack: Right.

Tom: But where we are standing are the floorboards that run this way.

Underneath the floorboards are the floor joists that run continuously from that side of the lower section of the roof, all the way over to the other side of the house.

One strong, long floor joist.

A lot of strength and tension holding that.

Okay.

So now let's think about the roof system.

It's basically a triangle, okay?

So we have a floor system that's one piece.

Our rafters on each side that go up at a steep pitch.

See if I can do that.

Look at that.

Zack: Right.

Tom: There's our triangle.

Because the lower chord of that triangle is one piece, that basically the amount of force or tension that that can hold is tremendous.

So the continuous joists that run across here set on top of a beam, sitting on top of full dimensional 2x4s in your wall system, they put a plate on top of that, and they nailed the rafters into it.

So all of this roof system is locked in place by these floor joists that are also known as rafter ties.

So when you push down on the roof, it wants to go out, but it can't.

Zack: It can't go out.

Tom: Right.

So, technically, that chimney can come down because you don't have a bearing load of the chimney on the ridge.

Zack: Well, that's a relief.

Tom: Yeah.

Now you just got to think about what you want to do about stiffening up this roof system.

If you want to stiffen it up.

And you got to think about your insulation.

Zack: Right.

Tom: All right?

But, yeah, I think it's good to go.

The chimney can come down.

Zack: All right.

Let's get to work.

Tom: Okay.

Zack: All right.

Got some buckets up here.

I think we should just take it down brick by brick.

Tom: Sounds good to me.

Okay.

We've got the chimney down to the same height as the staging.

We've covered that with plywood.

And we've also jacked up the roof, taking the load off of it, and reinforced it off of the top of the chimney.

That's so we can cut the headers off and then basically reframe the roof.

Zack: All right.

Let's get to it.

Tom: Okay.

Okay, good.

That looks good, clean.

Now we've cut a gusset for a piece of plywood right here.

We'll screw that up.

That way, we can attach our new ridge to that.

All right.

One for the other side.

This is like a gusset up here.

It ties these two rafters together and covers a ridge, but it gives us a nice surface to mount our new ridge tube right across here.

Zack: All right.

Let's get one screw into the old ridge.

Now we're ready to cut out the headers here so we can slide our new rafters and bring it up.

All right, let's get this one out of here.

All right.

Looks like we're ready to slide the rafters in.

Zack: Hand.

Tom: Yeah.

All right.

Right about there.

Now we can add the ridge between our gussets and connect the rafters as we go.

All right.

So now we'll take a rafter from the other side and slide it up.

Zack: All right.

Tom: All right.

Get it in tight.

[ Hammering ] Zack: Little bit more.

[ Hammering ] Tom: Oh, oh.

I got to tap the other side up.

Zack: I think that's it.

Tom: It's even on both sides?

Zack: Yeah.

Tom: Okay.

All right, the next one.

Zack: About another inch.

[ Hammering ] Almost there.

[ Hammering ] All right, that's it.

Tom: Now we have to fasten this with either a hanger -- but we're going to use a block like this.

Put it right up underneath it.

That'll hold it in place.

Perfect.

Screw that off.

All right.

That's good.

Now all we got to do is put another one on the other end and then screw all our rafters off, get the roof sheathed, and make it watertight.

Zack: Awesome.

Well, thanks for the help today.

I feel way more confident in this roof now.

Tom: Well, I do, too.

[ Both laugh ] Kevin: So, yesterday, I was watching you and Tommy Silva work shoulder to shoulder on that chimney.

How'd that go?

Zack: There were moments where I felt like I was on a little bit of a, uh... like an out-of-body experience.

I was like -- it was very photogenic.

You know, we're, like, looking out over Manhattan, even though it was a smoky day.

And it was surreal at times, but it was cool.

And, also, the guy can move because we were both demo'ing a side of the chimney, and I couldn't keep up with him.

And I was wondering, like, "Does he work this fast, or is he trying to prove a point?

Like, 'This guy can't keep up with me,'" because I was -- I was going, and he always had a lead on me.

Kevin: It's maddening.

Zack: Yeah, it is.

Kevin: Trust me, it's maddening.

Zack: [ Laughs ] Kevin: Did you learn anything from him?

Zack: I learned a couple things from him that are subtle, but in the way he communicated, he was, you know, just saying what was necessary to get the job done and move it forward.

And I -- And I was noticing that, because sometimes when I'm managing employees, I feel like I add a lot of fluff in there that dilutes the message of, "Please hand me that 2x4."

Could be, "Give me that board," and it gets the job done quicker.

Kevin: So, what did you think when "This Old House" said they want to do the project with you down here in New Jersey?

Zack: I texted Camille, and I said, "Are you sitting down?"

[ Both laugh ] Camille is my wife, right?

Kevin: Yeah.

Zack: And she was like, "Whaaat?"

I was pretty stoked about it.

A lot of the tips and tricks I picked up over the years came from "This Old House," because just knowing that that world existed, like, helped me always do a little bit better on each job.

And "This Old House" is a big part of that.

Kevin: Does it make you nervous?

Zack: Extremely nervous.

Kevin: [ Laughing ] Why?

Zack: I think because I know there's eyes that, like, highly educated eyes that have been on many projects, more complex, better run, better organized than mine, and having those eyes seeing my project, it's -- I feel very, um...

There's no social media.

There's nothing -- I can't hide anything.

I can't say we're more organized than they are when -- when you and your team show up on the job.

Like, you're going to know if I'm doing things the way they should be done or not, and that's pretty scary.

Kevin: When did you get into this?

Zack: I got into this, uh, let's see, when I was about 11, I started my first job, um, moving mulch around.

And then, went to school for timber framing at 13.

That was fun.

Got a job for another contractor who fired me immediately because I didn't know what I was doing because, uh, spending a week at a timber framing school doesn't get you that far, apparently.

Kevin: Who fired you?

Zack: Uh, his name was Mr. Schmidt.

Kevin: [ Laughing ] Zack: Um...

He, uh -- he asked me if I could read a tape, and, uh, I was just stuck in my brain.

I said, "Of course I can read a tape."

And then he was saying, you know, "Rip that to, uh, 9 11/16," and I'm like, "What?

What is this?"

I got three quarters down, but the sixteenths blew my mind.

And he's like, "I thought you could read a tape!"

And then he gave me a really sharp chisel, and I was working, and he goes, "Careful.

That's sharp."

And I swung it around and just slashed my leg open.

And then I tried to hide it.

Kevin: Yeah.

Zack: And, uh... You know, that didn't work.

And I really thank him for that because it gave me this terror of being fired again.

Kevin: Oh, really?

Zack: And so I always try to be the hardest working guy in the room after that.

Kevin: Our homeowners want to return as much of the original detail to this house as possible.

And that's okay with the town, because over 90% of this community is actually in an historic district.

Dan, nice to meet you.

Dan: Likewise.

Kevin: So, you are the guy that's got to help us do that.

Dan: Yes, sir.

Kevin: What is it that the homeowners asked of you when they hired you and gave you the plan?

Dan: Well, so I think the homeowners have asked that we restore the home to its original integrity.

Kevin: Literally take it back to sort of 1887, if you could.

Dan: That's correct.

Right?

And so we have a lot of information there.

We know that this home was built at the same time as the homes that flank it.

Kevin: Oh, really?

So all three of these same time.

So we can be hopeful that it might look as robust as those.

Dan: And I'm confident it will.

Kevin: Very nice.

And what do you have going back historically to help you?

Dan: So, in addition to the physical structures we have on either side of us here, we have -- we have a rather grainy photograph, but it tells us a lot of what was able to help us build the documentation that we have here.

Kevin: So, looking at your plans existing right here?

Dan: Correct.

And then, what we're proposing up top.

Kevin: So, imposing front porch right here.

And then you're going back to a very traditional Victorian look.

Dan: Sure.

The ability to open that up with an open balustrade, turned columns and brackets, I think we really restore the character to this home, bring a lot of that detail back in, and make it feel open and inviting.

And at the same time, recognize that the homeowners didn't want to lose any of the square footage.

Right?

So we have this small appendage up there, and I think what we're actually able to do is build it out the full width of the front facade.

So it is an addition, and it's not original to the home, but it feels as contextual as possible.

Kevin: So you pick up a lot of symmetry, too.

I mean, it's nice that when this gets bumped out, it lines up with the edge of the house.

And over here, when this gets extended, it ends up with the edge of the house, as well.

Dan: And we line up the windows, as well.

Kevin: All right.

So as you go back to this sort of what I call the dream picture, what you're shooting for, this house just has asbestos siding.

Here, I presume collapse shingles.

And then, are these diamond shingles like I'm seeing next door?

Dan: That's the plan that we filed with the borough.

Right?

So we have to bring something before the Preservation Commission to say, "This is what we could do."

Kevin: And they were okay with this?

Dan: Right.

So they approved this, recognizing that, if we find nothing under the asbestos siding, we can go with this because it's period-appropriate.

Right?

But if we have the opportunity to pull off this asbestos siding and find something else underneath, I think we'd want to restore that.

Kevin: Oh, really?

Dan: Yeah.

Kevin: Oh, so you'll let that dictate pretty much what you're gonna do.

Dan: I think that should, in a true sense of restoration and preservation, we're going to want to preserve the original.

Kevin: So, just so I understand, in a perfect scenario, you guys would make this house today look exactly like it did back in 1887.

Dan: Absolutely.

Kevin: That's a pretty good plan.

Yeah.

And the homeowners are -- They're stewards of this home.

Right?

They want to bring it back.

And they they want to honor the original.

Kevin: Well, we got that sense, for sure.

So we're glad you're on board to help us out.

Dan: Thank you very much.

Kevin: Thanks, Dan.

Dan: Take care.

Richard: Gas lanterns were once the way that cities and towns illuminated their sidewalks and streets, but over time, they were given up to electrical streetlights.

But not so here in Glen Ridge.

They still have gas lanterns and plenty of them.

Mayor Stuart Patrick knows all about it.

Mayor, Glen Ridge is a beautiful place.

Stuart: Well, thank you.

We appreciate your coming to visit.

Richard: It's so lovely here.

So, how about a little history?

Stuart: Okay.

Glen Ridge goes back to the Civil War years is when it really started getting populated.

And shortly thereafter, we actually had a train come through here at least once a day to drop off passengers and take them.

And then, about in 1895, the town seceded from Bloomfield, and at that time, they decided that they needed to do a master plan for this town.

So the master plan really had probably three principal elements to it.

We have the gas lamps here.

We have the canopy of trees.

We have the slate walks.

Richard: Yeah.

Stuart: So we think we're very unique.

Richard: So as the town grew, though, you needed to find more and more of these gas lamps because you wanted them everywhere, right?

Stuart: Right.

Richard: So where'd you find them?

Stuart: We found them all over the place.

As the World Wars came in, a lot of the cities decided to change over to electricity versus the gas lamps.

So as soon as we found that there were gas lamps available, we swooped in, scooped them all up, and brought them out here.

And you'll notice, as you go around town that a lot of the poles are different than others.

Richard: I've seen that.

Stuart: So we've gotten a hodgepodge from all over.

Richard: So where'd they come from?

From New York City?

Stuart: New York City.

Yeah, a lot from New York City.

Yeah, a lot from.

New Jersey, et cetera.

Richard: So, but nowadays, you know, if people wanted to think about changing them to electrification, it isn't that easy, is it?

Stuart: No, it is not.

And it's not something we would even consider doing for a couple reasons.

First, we have a local ordinance which provides that, so long as we have these gas lamps, no utility company can come in and put poles in the front of people's residences.

So as you've driven through town, you haven't seen any utility poles.

Richard: That's right, that's right.

Secondly, they would have to tear down all of the infrastructure of the utility behind the homes and move it to the front.

Richard: So they all run behind the houses.

So you'd have to come across everybody's fantastic front lawn.

Stuart: Right.

So, for those two reasons, have no interest in going that way.

Richard: Speaking of cars, these are on all the time.

And I am not a stranger to these, believe it or not.

Now, I started in our family business when I was about 14, 15 years old, and my job was to replace the mantles, these things.

They were a little different back then.

They had a ceramic top.

But my hands, at 15, were much smaller.

I could get up inside there.

How do you stay on top of maintaining -- How many -- How many of these you got now?

Stuart: Approximately 700.

Richard: I mean, that's a full-time job.

Stuart: Well, it is, and we don't do it ourselves.

The utility company has full responsibility for maintaining the hardware and delivering the gas, et cetera.

Richard: Well, I tell you, they don't give off a lot of light, but they add so much charm to this town.

It's really -- it's really special.

Stuart: It really is a special town.

Richard: Thanks for letting us visit.

Kevin: Hey, Edwin.

How are you?

Edwin: Hey, how you doing, Kevin?

Kevin: All right.

So, that's it right there?

Edwin: Yep.

Kevin: That is the culprit.

What am I looking at?

Edwin: This is a transite asbestos panel.

Kevin: Transite asbestos panel.

Seen a lot of those in your day?

Edwin: So many of these.

Kevin: They're everywhere, right?

Edwin: Everywhere.

Kevin: May I?

So, sort of an oversize panel, painted on one side.

The other side is all the way through.

And you can kind of see, it's sort of a cementitious material right there, although not what we use today.

Edwin: Right, yeah.

Kevin: So, this is all over the house.

Edwin: That's correct.

Kevin: Um, tell me the process.

What do you guys got to do to get it off?

Edwin: Well, the process, you know, first, we're going to set everything up.

We're going to cover the ground.

Kevin: Yeah.

Edwin: So nothing gets cross-contaminated with the soil, and then we start taking one by one.

Kevin: What is the danger?

Edwin: This causes cancer.

That's why, you know, all these fibers, because they used this so many years for, uh -- the reason is because it's very resistant to the heat.

Kevin: Yeah.

Edwin: And this is very -- very good material back in the days, but now... Kevin: Not so much.

Edwin: It's not too much.

They do not use it anymore.

Kevin: So, I mean, this house is covered in these tiles, and the homeowner's have been out here for decades, having barbecues, being outside.

No problem with it on the house?

Edwin: No, because they never disturb the asbestos.

If you don't disturb, it's okay.

Kevin: It's okay.

Edwin: But if you start breaking it, that becomes hazardous.

Kevin: And that's what's gonna happen when you guys... Edwin: That's correct.

Kevin: ...take it down.

Edwin: But, you know, in this case, when we do the removal, we use a lot of water to keep the dust down.

Kevin: So, just water?

Edwin: Water with amended water.

That's something like a special solution to keep the -- the fibers down.

Kevin: Special solution.

Okay.

Edwin: Yeah.

And then we -- as soon as we start taking it, we double bag it.

Kevin: Double bag.

Edwin: Yeah.

And place in the container.

Kevin: So after they're done working, the material goes into the dumpster?

Edwin: Yeah, that's correct.

Yeah.

Kevin: What do your workers do?

Edwin: They take one suit off, they go to a dirty room.

Kevin: What happens in the dirty room?

Edwin: The dirty room, they take all the clothes off, and then they take a shower, and then they put new clothes in the clean room.

Kevin: Shower, number two.

Get dressed in number three.

So you've got a lot of protocols here between, you know, containment, disposal, protection of your workers.

Could a homeowner do this?

Edwin: They can do it, but it's not safe for them because they're not training to do those kind of jobs.

Kevin: So, legally, they could do it, but they still have to do all of this protocol.

Edwin: They got to leave it to the professionals to handle that kind of situation.

Kevin: Sounds like a good suggestion to me.

All right.

Well, I appreciate it.

Thank you for helping us out.

Edwin: No problem.

Kevin: Let's get this stuff off.

Edwin: All right.

Thank you.

Zack: All right, Sunita, we took your front door off.

I scraped away some of the layers, and you can see it was blue, then green, then red, then blue, then green, then brown, then green again.

And I think that little strip of green there is the original paint color.

Sunita: That's really interesting.

Kevin: Sunita, you thinking about a new color for the front door?

Sunita: I don't know.

We have to -- We have to see.

Kevin: Well, you've got some time to decide.

And how do you feel about seeing the house all torn apart?

Sunita: Oh, it's surreal to see it down to the studs.

After 25 years, it's surreal.

Kevin: Yeah.

Okay.

So, what do we got up next time, Zack?

Zack: Next up, we're going to start framing the addition, we'll remove this porch we're standing under, and we'll get to work rebuilding that, as well.

Kevin: That's going to feel surreal, too.

All right, well, so until then, I'm Kevin O'Connor.

Sunita: And I'm Sunita.

Zack: And I'm Zack Dettmore.

Kevin: For "This Old House," here in New Jersey.

I like green.

Kevin: Next time on "This Old House"... Jenn: I'm going to visit a community garden that has a special connection to our project house.

Tom: And we're framing over the old concrete slab to make it level.

[ Sawing ] Richard: And we're gonna be replacing this 100-year-old clay sewer line without digging a trench.

Good for the next hundred years.

Man: Good for the next hundred years.

Kevin: That's next time.