PBS News Hour

JUDY WOODRUFF

With Russian military forces on the offensive in Ukraine, countries in Europe are on edge. One nation that shares an 800-mile border with Russia is Finland, which has a stable and prosperous democracy. Finland is not a member of NATO, but it buys military equipment from the United States and is a member of the European Union Finland's President Sauli Niinisto met with President Biden this afternoon. And I spoke with him a short time ago. President Niinisto, thank you very much for talking with us. You flew more than, what, 4,300 miles from Helsinki to Washington to talk to President Biden. What can you tell us came out of that meeting? SAULI NIINISTO,

President of Finland

It was a very pleasant meeting with him. Surely, because of what is taking place in Ukraine, the Russian attack, security, defense, those were the issues we discussed very much. And we have a long-lasting cooperation with the United States, Finland and Sweden, all Nordic countries. And that will be enhanced in the future. I'm very satisfied with our discussions.

JUDY WOODRUFF

When you say the relationship will be enhanced, how so?

SAULI NIINISTO

Yes, we are talking about a kind of process where we take issue by issue, not defining them yet, at the table and see what all we can do together and support each others.

JUDY WOODRUFF

And does part of that include Finland seeking membership now in NATO?

SAULI NIINISTO

That is surely a different issue. It's up to Finland. I understand that NATO keeps its doors open, like the principal has been for those who meet the criteria. And, in Finland, we have a very, very lively and important discussion going on about NATO and NATO membership and about applying it. But, like I said, discussion is ongoing, and our Parliament is very active on that. And, at the end, it's a decision made by the Parliament.

JUDY WOODRUFF

Do you believe Finland is as safe outside of NATO as it would be inside NATO?

SAULI NIINISTO

We have been totally safe. But, surely, things, what we have now seen in Europe, we have to consider. I do not doubt that Russia would attack militarily to Finland. But Russia's demand to, like they say, keep out of NATO, or they want to -- NATO to stop taking new members, it might lead to a situation where Russia expects that it has kind of a say around its neighborhood. And that is not at all a pleasant thing.

JUDY WOODRUFF

Do you believe, after speaking today with President Biden, that there is any way to stop Vladimir Putin from overtaking Ukraine, this bloody invasion of Ukraine, whether it involves diplomacy or any other method?

SAULI NIINISTO

Now, it seems that Putin is going to continue. If he's successful or not, that is still open. But it is very, very difficult to get him packing. That is very obvious, at least not now.

JUDY WOODRUFF

You said it's not clear if he will be successful. So, are you saying you think there's a good chance the Ukrainians could prevail?

SAULI NIINISTO

What we have seen so far is that Ukrainians have a very brave way of protecting, defending themselves. And Russians haven't gone forward in a speed they undoubtedly thought before that they could reach. So, it's not going right in the way that Russians had planned.

JUDY WOODRUFF

You also said, President Niinisto, that if Russia is -- if Russia succeeds, that it changes the security of the entire continent, that, clearly, Russia poses a different kind of threat. What does that mean?

SAULI NIINISTO

What we see today is more united European Union and Europeans than ever. And that means that Europe will also develop its defense and take more and more -- much more responsibility of its own security. I think that what German Chancellor Scholz said, that was a total change in German politics. They gave arms to Ukrainians, and they decided to increase their budget, budget defense, with quite a lot of new money. And that is a totally new position in Germany, and that means that Europe will be stronger.

JUDY WOODRUFF

Europe may be stronger, may be more united, but if Russia prevails, it still means the rest of the continent is standing by helplessly while Russia essentially gobbles up another country.

SAULI NIINISTO

Here, we have heard, specifically NATO countries and NATO, trying to avoid escalation, so that we would see even more warfare in Europe, maybe even something which reminds of a world war. So it's the nature of escalation. But it has a meaning if Europe is stronger in the future, because it prevails also. It is a clear kind of an obstacle to the one who might try something, and to Russia.

JUDY WOODRUFF

But it's almost as if Ukraine is a sacrifice in this process.

SAULI NIINISTO

European countries have helped, like the United Nations, United States too, very much Ukraine, not only by money, but sending arms, and more and more arms. So Ukraine is, from that aspect, not alone. It has been helped, at least.

JUDY WOODRUFF

One final question about Vladimir Putin himself. Do you believe he is acting in a rational way or not right now?

SAULI NIINISTO

It might be that this irrationality, what we have seen, at the end, is rational. Maybe he wants to -- things to look like irrational, and that's the rationality. It's quite complex.

JUDY WOODRUFF

Yes, it certainly does appear to be. President Sauli Niinisto, we thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate it.

SAULI NIINISTO

Thank you so very much. Thank you.