John McGivern’s Main Streets

Oshkosh, Wisconsin

John McGivern:This city in Wisconsin is named after a Menominee chief whose name means “claw.”

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‘Cause these are our Main Streets Somethin’ ’bout a hometown speaks to me There’s nowhere else I’d rather be The heart and soul of community’s right here On these Main Streets – I am in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.

Menominee Chief Oshkosh, whose name means “claw,” for reasons I have no idea, is best known for negotiating treaties to keep his Menominee people on their lands.

Oshkosh, Wisconsin, is about 80 miles northwest of Milwaukee on the western shores of Lake Winnebago, which is Wisconsin’s largest inland lake, and is considered part of the Fox Valley.

Oshkosh is where the upper Fox River empties into Lake Winnebago.

This is Oshkosh.

I’m generally not geographically challenged.

Here in Oshkosh, I have been.

And here’s the reason.

This is the upper Fox River.

It empties into Lake Winnebago here in Oshkosh.

And north of here, the lower Fox River empties out of Lake Winnebago.

It makes no sense to me, because we always went up north– – Emmy Fink: No, no, no, give up.

We have to just accept it, like the locals do, because the city motto is: “On the Water.”

Now, that doesn’t specify what body of water.

– Okay, I’m gonna give up.

– We know that Oshkosh lies on the Fox River in between Lake Butte des Morts and Lake Winnebago.

And enough said.

– And do you know what “Butte des Morts” means in French?

– No, you just told me how to pronounce it.

– I know.

So, “Butte des Morts,” in French, means “mound of the dead.”

It’s a tragic story.

If you wanna look it up, you can.

I suggest– – No, I don’t like that.

– Do you know what “Winnebago” means?

– No.

– It’s from the Algonquian language.

And it means:“People of the dirty water.”

– Oh, that’s just not so nice.

– It’s not.

– Okay, but dirty or not… – Yeah?

– …back in the 1800s, if you were in Wisconsin and you had water, then you had what?

– I know what you had.

– Oh, you– – Because I’ve done this show a long time.

– Of course you do.

– If there was a body of water, it was easy to transport lumber.

– You got it, bingo!

And Oshkosh was a true lumber town.

They nicknamed the area Sawdust City, which every time I say it, makes me a little thirsty.

John:Me too.

Did you know this?

In Oshkosh in 1875, tragic fire.

Another tragic story.

– No, I don’t like those.

John:And if you look at the buildings in downtown, these beautiful old brick, stone buildings, all of those buildings have dates after 1875.

Should we check it all out?

– Let’s go!

– Come on, downtown Oshkosh.

– Let’s go.

– Here we go.

Okay, this is exciting.

Have you ever heard of the… Wisconsin Herd?

How long you been doing this?

Steve Brandes:I’ve been in the industry since 2002, but running teams probably for about 15, yeah, 15 years.

– Wisconsin Herd is a member of the G League… – Yes.

– …which is an NBA-owned league.

– Yes, so, we’re the official development league for the NBA.

So, our parent club is the Milwaukee Bucks.

John:Nice.

– And we’re here to develop players.

– Take a look.

I’m on a stoop.

I am six feet tall.

This is Henry Ellenson.

He’s 6’10”.

– So, we’re an entity to actually help the Bucks win another championship.

– What’s G?

What’s that about?

– Stephen Thompson Jr.

: I think G League is sponsored by Gatorade, so it’s Gatorade League, I think.

John:Oh, really?

Gatorade got on board.

– And keeps us hydrated.

– Don’t they?

– Yes.

So, from a standpoint of competitiveness, like, we’re Triple-A, so we’re like Triple-A baseball.

John:Triple-A?

– Yeah.

Henry Ellenson:This is the team where guys are, you know, coming in every day to try to prove themselves to earn a call-up.

Stephen:My goal is to play in the NBA, and that’s why I chose to come and play here, ’cause I feel like playing in the G League gives me a better chance of being seen by more NBA personnel and giving me that opportunity to chase my dream.

– Obviously, they wanna be playing in the NBA, but they also know that if they get more opportunity of running the hardwood, they’re gonna develop faster.

– This is nice, the pro shop.

Steve:Has everything that you wanted to buy.

– Here we go.

Wisconsin Herd.

– That’s pretty heavy.

– Oh, it’s heavy.

[laughs]– That’s your bling you were looking for.

– How important is this team to the city of Oshkosh?

Steve:Super important.

– What’s it like playing in this town of Oshkosh?

– Oh, it’s great.

This fan base, it’s really special.

– People in Oshkosh, people in the Fox Valley come out in droves.

They love it, because it’s not often you have that in your backyard.

But we get a lot of people from outside, all over the state.

Henry:We pack this arena just about every game.

John:You do?

Henry:It gets loud in here.

[crowd cheers]– Steve: Very loud, and we love it.

And it’s a great environment for our players to play in.

Stephen:It’s really exciting to play every time.

I like putting on a show for everybody that comes to watch.

John:Is this a big family thing going on?

Steve:Huge family thing.

We have players signing autographs.

You know, they’re very approachable.

We like to say the ball never stops bouncing.

We have a mascot.

There’s breaks in the game.

John:Yeah.

Steve:There’s activities everywhere.

We have on-court activities[crowd cheers]’cause we want them to keep coming back and supporting our team.

John:I’m sure this town is glad to have you.

Congratulations on this.

This is very cool.

Steve:We’re very lucky and fortunate to be here.

– Herd Up!

– Herd Up!

– That’s a manhole cover that says “Neenah.”

I like this thing better, look.

It’s like a root hole cover that says “Oshkosh,” and it gives the history.

Come on!

The Grand Opera House, that’s the lake.

That’s EAA, that’s the lion by the library.

And that is the, um… I’m not really sure what that… Let’s just say that is giving honor to the lumber industry.

Oshkosh.

I’m inside the EAA museum with Dick.

We’re deep inside the museum.

Where are we?

Dick Knapinski:We’re in what is called the Founders’ Wing, and this is an area dedicated to our founders, Paul and Audrey Poberezny.

He and 35 friends got together.

They wanted to start an airplane club, just local people with an airplane club who built and restored airplanes.

And everything grew from that point onward.

John:The basement of his Hales Corners home.

Dick:Yep.

John:Right here.

Dick:Exactly.

We still have our first ledger book, with the first 1,000 members of EAA.

We now have 300,000 members around the world.

And it all started with the vision of one man, basically.

John:And this club, they all built their own airplanes?

Dick:They built their own airplanes or modified or restored airplanes.

You have to build at least 51% of the airplane yourself.

John:Okay.

Dick:And there are more than 30,000 home-built aircraft that are licensed and registered in the U.S.

and flying today.

John:Paul was married to Audrey.

Was Audrey a pilot as well?

Dick:Audrey was not a pilot.

She was the organizer.

The first fly-in in Milwaukee was 21 airplanes and 150 people, back in September of 1953.

1970 was the first year in Oshkosh, and it’s been here for more than a half century, ever since.

John:EAA has put Oshkosh on the map all over the world.

Dick:If you talk to a pilot and you say the word “Oshkosh,” they know exactly what you’re talking about.

People from more than 90 countries come every year.

Last year, we had more than 680,000 total attendance here.

John:Wow!

Dick:We will have an airplane landing or taking off on the average of every 12 to 15 seconds during the week at Oshkosh.

John:And what does this event mean to the city of Oshkosh, do you think?

Dick:We become the busiest airport in the world for one week, and it’s $170 million of economic impact for the Fox Valley region every single year.

John:Think about that.

Dick:Yeah.

– Can you talk about some of the programs?

Emmy, our co-host, is so excited because her daughter, she’s gonna be in a plane, and it’s one of the programs you have.

– It’s one of the programs.

Young Eagles program started in 1992.

We wanted to get kids interested in aviation.

Ethan Beswick:I actually started out as a Young Eagle.

So, I took a Young Eagles ride when I was younger.

– Oh, my gosh, I have a Young Eagle.

Dick:And our EAA members volunteer their time, their airplanes, the fuel to do that.

And they go up for about 15, 20 minutes, show how an airplane works, absolutely free for the kids.

Ethan:Yeah, I’ve always been an EAA member and thought it’s a cool way to give back and kind of get the youth involved in aviation.

So, we’ll pull this down here, you can put that over your ears.

– Wow!

Ethan:Are you guys good?

[engine rumbles]Perfect.

I don’t know if it’s more fun for me or for the Young Eagles.

It really is a great way to share a passion and teach students about airplanes and career possibilities and all of it.

So, it’s really special.

Here we go.

Emmy:So, between the ages of 8 and 17, this is a free thing.

Ethan:Yep, it’s a free program.

Chapters around the country and around the world.

We have over 50,000 pilots that have donated their time, donated their airplanes, donated fuel, all of that, to get youth up in the air.

Emmy:You obviously love it, to do it.

Ethan:Yeah, correct.

Dick:More than 25,000 of today’s airline pilots and kids in college aviation programs and in the military got their start with a Young Eagles flight.

Emmy:[exclaims indistinctly]– John: It’s an important program then.

Dick:It’s very important, not only for us, but for all of aviation.

John:Yeah.

Every old opera house needs a ghost… and most have one.

The Grand Oshkosh has more than one.

How many ghosts live… No, that’s not right.

How– How many ghosts reside… That’s not… How many ghosts haunt… the Grand Oshkosh?

[playful music]– There are four ghosts that haunt the Grand Oshkosh.

We have the stage manager.

Obviously, he’s the ringleader of the group.

We have the boy in the basement.

Then there’s the lady in the balcony.

And there’s the dog, who…[wood creaks]…apparently likes to rock in the chair.

I’m outta here!

[spooky laughter][scream echoes]– This is a one-of-a-kind building in Oshkosh.

Public library.

Emmy:Love those pillars!

John:One of a kind.

I know there’s at least two famous ones in Oshkosh.

– You know what I’m talking about?

– Oh, I know.

– What am I talking about?

– Chocolate shops!

– Chocolate!

Everybody has a favorite.

Do you have a favorite?

– I do have a favorite.

I’m sure it’s the same.

– Hughes’.

– Oaks.

[bright music]– Are you two busy?

Tom Hughes:No, we’re okay.

– Can we visit?

– You can visit, you’re welcome.

– This is Tom.

Uh, what’s your last name?

– Hughes, just like on the box.

– Just like that.

Do you know these people well?

– Yeah, pretty good.

– Have you been working here a bit?

Jennifer Baier:Yeah, just since 1978.

– Since ’78?

– Yeah.

John:Well, we’re in the basement of a house.

This is the wildest thing.

– You come down in this basement and you’re like, “Whoa!”

John:So great.

How long has this place been around?

Tom:1942.

John:Your grandparents started it.

Tom:Right.

Him and my grandma were making candy for themselves.

Then people started asking them, “Hey, can you make us some?”

And that’s how it got started.

John:Yeah.

– There you go, thanks.

– All right, thank you.

– See ya.

– Jennifer, can we walk through the open boxes, please?

– Of course.

– Okay.

– We’ve got light pecan clusters, light toffee, dark toffee, light nougats, dark nougats, dark pudding.

We’ve got light meltaways, dark meltaways.

And, of course, we got oysters down here.

John:And oysters.

And are you the only ones who make– Like, I’ve never heard of these before.

– Oh, some places call ’em peanut balls.

– Peanut balls.

You call ’em oysters.

Why?

– Yeah, I don’t know.

It was just… – Must’ve been before ’78, right?

– Yeah, exactly.

– You’re third generation, you tell me.

– Third generation.

– Fourth is coming up?

– My son is gonna be taking it over.

– Tom Jr.?

– No, Bret.

Like any business or any company, there’s a lot more work involved than people realize, you know?

John:And is there a time that it’s shut down for a while?

Tom:We’re open to the public mid-September ’til mid-May.

John:‘Til mid-May.

Tom:Yeah.

Now, don’t go getting all buzzed up now.

– That’s really– That’s not your concern, Tom.

Nobody lives in this house?

Tom:No.

John:There’s nothing like this anywhere.

And this is the kind of place you wanna bring your friends.

That’s the three-pounder.

– Yeah.

– I could eat this on the way home.

[bright music]– They left the door open to the back chocolate room!

And I don’t think they could possibly count all these chocolates, so they will never know a couple are missing.

The meltaways are really your bread and butter.

Valerie Gulke:Yes.

There’s 14 different kinds of meltaways.

And right now, Josie is working with the white chocolate.

She’s tempering the chocolates, and she is marking it so that each chocolate has its own marking on so you know what kind it is.

– Because not all chocolate shops do this old-fashioned way.

Valerie:No.

The hand dipping is done by eight people during the day and two people during the evening.

– How much do you love working in this environment?

– I love this because this is the happiest place on Earth.

You never have a customer come in grumpy.

– Just… pick a pick.

So good!

There’s no way John beats this.

One, two, three.

– All the time.

And tell John, “Nah-nah-nah-nah.”

[both laugh]– She said it.

I didn’t, John.

Valerie:Yes.

– That was delicious!

– It was so good, yeah.

– Okay, so there are two famous carhop drive-ins.

– Of course there are!

I have a favorite.

– Ardy and Ed’s.

– Leon’s.

[upbeat music]Do you still have Joos Burgers?

– We do still have Joos Burgers.

The same exact recipe.

– Really?

– Yes, sir.

– I’m so excited.

I also would like a strawberry malted, a large one.

– Absolutely, I’ll get that right out for you.

Thank you!

– Perfect.

Joos Burger.

This is what Leon’s means to me.

Just how I remembered!

This is the best.

– I want the double Tall Boy.

– Double Tall Boy.

– And one of your classic root beer floats, the biggest one you have.

– Biggest one?

Sounds good.

– Do you need some help tonight?

– Yes, I would love some help.

– Oh, my gosh, this looks delicious.

Ah, okay, here we go!

I got an order to deliver.

Hello, order up for the Main Streets car!

Have a great day!

Don’t forget to tip your server!

Bye-bye!

– I am on the campus of the University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh.

It was founded in 1871 as the Oshkosh State Normal School.

I think it meant that they educated teachers.

In fact, I read that if you committed to teaching in the state of Wisconsin, you didn’t have to pay tuition.

And in 1971, 100 years after it was founded, it became part of the University of Wisconsin System.

It’s the third-largest university in the state of Wisconsin, with a population of around 14,000.

I have to be honest.

I came here in the fall of 1972 as a freshman.

Fifty-three years later, I remember one thing, and that’s that Soviet Union-looking dorm called Scott Hall.

Everything else, the dorm I lived in has been torn down.

A lot of memories, yeah.

A lot of stories that I can’t tell on PBS.

Oh, well.

So, the riverfront in Oshkosh looks so different from when I was here in 1972.

Like, this place was not here, Fox River Brewing Company.

This certainly wasn’t here.

Cruisin’ Tikis, oh, my Lord.

Say hi to Tammy.

Tammy Lebefer:Hi!

– Say hi to Joe.

This is their place.

They’re letting me drive, only because they’re here and very close.

[Tammy and Joe laugh]– You’re the captain.

Joe Lebefer:Correct.

– And you’re the?

– Other captain.

[all laugh]– John: And how did this come to you two?

– You know, I think a balance of loving Jimmy Buffett and being on the water and pia coladas.

– And there’s a lot of these in Florida?

– There are.

So, we actually saw this on vacation.

He told me, he’s like, “I’m gonna look into that Cruisin’ Tikis.

It’s a franchise.”

So, he started looking into it.

We just love being on the water.

We hadn’t even been on it when we decided we were gonna go through and we’re gonna do this.

[laughs]– That’s brave!

– Yeah.

John:Is this the only one on the river?

Tammy:This is the only one in Wisconsin.

John:It is?

Tammy:Yes.

– You told me it was the most northern Cruisin’ Tiki in the country.

– Yeah.

Oshkosh is the furthest north.

John:It’s me and my five best friends that can do this.

So, it’s limited to two crew and six people.

That’s all that can do this.

Tammy:Yep.

Yep, and those are Coast Guard regulations.

– Are there rules, like, can I bring what I wanna drink on this?

Tammy:Absolutely, yeah, you can bring whatever– I’m gonna say floats your boat.

[laughs]– Nice, nice.

Tammy:This is your Wisconsin daycation.

This is the best thing that you can do on the water.

No one has to drive, it comes with a captain.

John:The usual tour is how long?

Joe:Two hours.

John:Two hours.

Joe:A lot of celebrations: bachelorette parties, birthday parties.

John:Do they come dressed like you at all?

– All the time.

– Some do.

John:I bet, I bet.

Tammy:Oh, yeah.

Some will go all decked out.

– Come on, we’re cruisin’ tikis!

Tammy:It’s impossible to have a bad time on the tiki.

Like, everyone just loves it, and it makes some great pictures.

– Three-hour tour A three-hour tour[all laugh]– One of my favorite things about visiting Wisconsin towns is finding all of their neighborhood bars.

And here in Oshkosh, they have a lot of them.

Now, not just to go there to drink.

No, that’s fun, but finding the neighborhood bars that have delicious food.

Now, if you are looking for a fish fry with a view, well, then you got to go to South Side Ice Yacht Club.

Some tell me that the very best burger in town, well, that’s gonna be at Pete’s Garage.

If you’re in the mood for a chili dog, you got to go to Bob’s Trails End.

Jerry’s Bar, been open since 1911, and they are all about the homemade pizza, some say some of the best.

All right, I’ll try that.

Oh, uh-huh, yes.

Mm-hmm, thank you!

So good!

– This classic brand, which got its name from an old vaudeville routine, was made right here.

The products were made right here for over 100 years.

Yeah.

Do you know what brand I’m thinking about?

[playful music]– Of course it’s OshKosh B’gosh, John, made famous for their bib overalls that were made in Oshkosh for over 100 years.

These were mine.

My mom saved them.

And then, decades later, all three of our kids wore them.

Lookit!

They still look brand new.

The brand sold to Carter’s in 2005.

Well, I’m off… in my bibs.

– Okay, I was raised in Wisconsin.

I know it as Oshkosh Truck.

It’s Oshkosh Corp.

Tim Gilman:If I say that I work for Oshkosh Corporation, they think I make baby clothes.

That’s the first thing that comes up.

We don’t do that.

If you’ve been here for longer than 10 years as a Wisconsinite, it is Oshkosh Truck.

And for good reason.

That’s our heritage.

That’s how we started with it.

– How did this all happen?

– Yeah.

This is two buddies who came together, tinkering around in the garage and developed a four-wheel-drive truck.

So, it was a revolutionary type of idea, and they said, “Hey, we can sell this to one of the big car companies, Packard or Ford or whatever.”

Nobody was interested.

These are just a few of the letters that we’ve received, back over 100 years ago, saying, “Sounds cool, but we really don’t have an interest for this thing.”

So, they came back right here in Oshkosh.

And the very first concept that they built of a four-wheel-drive truck is called Old Betsy.

– Old Betsy.

– This is a replica of that prototype vehicle that they developed.

It was so popular, they got a lot of different orders from it.

John:And as they say, the rest is history, isn’t it?

Tim:The rest is history, yeah.

We’re a global technology company, and we make purpose-built vehicles and equipment for some of the toughest jobs in our country.

Our defense segment is about 20%.

We have a vocational segment and we have an access segment.

John:So, Oshkosh Corp touches our lives every day.

Tim:Every day, yeah.

John:Every day.

Do you have the key to this thing, Tim?

– They don’t let me have keys to anything, John.

I don’t know why.

I don’t know why.

– What are we doing here?

Goodness, Tim.

This is a big truck.

– It is.

This is, when people say Oshkosh Truck, this is probably what they think about.

– What they think of.

– Yeah.

John:But it always has this on it.

Tim:It always does, for sure.

We’re Oshkosh, and we live and breathe Oshkosh.

We’re proud to be part of this community.

– Handsome.

– I’m glad you think so.

It’s light years different, both in size and how it runs and technology.

Now, no one sends letters or envelopes.

You send packages.

John:Right.

Tim:And so, the old vehicle was a letter carrier.

This is a package carrier.

John:But there’s a salute to what the old ones looked like.

Tim:There is, for sure.

Yeah, these are rolling off the line now.

They’re in 18 different states.

– John McGivern’s Main Streets crew van.

I’ll be in the back, taking a nap.

[gentle music]Kitty-corner from each other, two lumber baron mansion tragedies that turned into gifts for the community of Oshkosh.

This is the Sawyer estate, built by Edgar and Mary Sawyer in 1907.

They moved in, and in a year, Mary died.

So, he donated this house to the city of Oshkosh with one stipulation: that this house be open to the public.

This is the Paine Art Center and Gardens.

In the early 1900s, Paine Lumber was the largest manufacturer of doors and windows in the country.

And in 1927, they began to build this house.

We all know what happened in 1929:the Depression.

And Paine Lumber was devastated.

They never moved into this house, and in 1946, it became the Paine Art Museum.

So, here it is.

Out of devastation came this gift to the community.

There’s always a silver lining.

I guess not for the Sawyers and the Paines… We’re at the Tiny House Village, and out of respect for those residents, I’m not gonna talk to them.

But can I tell you, we have somebody we can talk to.

I want to know how this happened.

Will Deppiesse:So, Oshkosh Kids Foundation was founded in 2019 to help kids and their families with immediate needs in the community.

We’ve had families move here from their cars.

We had a family that was living in a tent at a campground in February.

So, families, now that we have it built, are applying.

If they don’t have the ability to pay themselves, they apply for a rental assistance voucher.

John:Sure, yeah.

– Things probably didn’t go great if you got to a point where you were homeless or about to be homeless that you qualify to be able to live here.

John:Lease-wise, what, what do they sign a year?

Will:When they come on board and get the rental assistance voucher, they have a one-year lease to start, and then that voucher lasts for up to two years.

John:How big are these houses?

Will:The houses are 392 square feet.

They’re all set up the same way.

– And we’re home.

– We are.

John:Yeah.

Will:So when families move in here, fully-stocked kitchen with dishes, cups.

John:Into the living room.

Will:Yep.

And then the furniture in here all has space available inside of it to be able to add additional storage space.

John:Sure.

Will:And then full bathroom.

Two bedrooms.

– So, this is for, like, a four-year-old and a six-year-old.

– Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

– Yeah, yeah.

And then the… – Will: Yep.

The adult room for the parents.

John:It’s bright, it’s modern.

It feels homey.

Will:Yeah.

John:It’s great.

– Some of the feedback we’ve gotten from residents is, it’s the nicest quality construction of any place that they’ve lived– for some, their entire lives.

John:Wow.

It’s done very well.

Will:Thank you.

John:What are your hopes?

Will:We would love for the kids to see that life can be better than what it has been for them.

John:Will, you’re gonna go to heaven, though.

Will:Well, we’ll see about that.

John:[laughs]That’s generally how it happens.

You should be really proud of this.

Will:Thank you.

[upbeat music]– So that’s some of Oshkosh, Emmy.

What’d you think?

– Oh, my gosh, it was great!

– Oshkosh, oh, my gosh.

– A little like Oshkosh B’gosh.

– Almost a little too much like it.

Well, what else rhymes with it?

– I mean, we got Oshposh.

– Oshposh!

That’s kind of, like, fancy… There’s nowhere else I’d rather be The heart and soul of community’s right here – Let him start!

[both laugh]– Why isn’t this working?

Producer:It actually sits on the outside.

– Take two!

Producer:One more time.

John:[blows raspberry]I can’t work like this.

[laughs]Oh, my gosh.

[laughs][Emmy laughs]Come on, we’re on– This is TV!

I’m gonna have to get used to this schedule.

Wait, no, no, wait.

[all laugh]– Do that again, I’m sorry.

– No, it’s all good.

Emmy:Oh!

– That can be cut.

Announcer:Thanks to our underwriters.

– There’s no place like Oconomowoc.

Explore, play, shop, stay.

Visit Oconomowoc!

– My father taught me that to make great bakery, you have to do it the right way.

O&H Danish Bakery, where kringle traditions begin.

– Together doing good for 130 years.

Horicon Bank.

It’s the natural choice for community banking.

– Support for this program provided by Plum Media.

From first spark to final edit, it’s all about bringing stories to life with purpose and precision.

Announcer:Financial support has been provided by our friends at Greenfire, a construction management company, the Friends of PBS Wisconsin, and the Friends of Main Streets.

Announcer 2:Thank you for watching.

Do you know that it helps us if you engage with this show?

It does!

Go to our website.

You can watch all of our episodes, listen to our podcast, shop on our store, or contact us.

We’d love to hear from you.

– I’m subtle with, well, my TV show.

I’m subtle with my live stage show, and I’m very subtle with my jewelry.

Hold, please.

[Lois laughs]– What do you think?

Lois:I think it’s you.

– As subtle as the rest of my life, don’t you think, Lo?