Here & Now

Wisconsin Delegates Will Head To National Conventions

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

IN PRESIDENTIAL POLITICS, PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA WILL HIT THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL WITH HILLARY CLINTON NEXT WEEK IN GREEN BAY FOLLOWING THE PRESIDENT’S ENDORSEMENT OF THE PRESUMPTIVE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE LATE THIS WEEK. THE CAMPAIGNER IN CHIEF SWING THROUGH WISCONSIN COMES ON THE HEELS OF A BERNIE SANDERS’ PRIMARY VICTORY IN THIS STATE. WITH BERNIE SANDERS BEING SHOWN THE QUOTE OFF RAMP, WISCONSIN’S REMAINING UNPLEDGED SUPER DELEGATES COULD BE EXPECTED TO THROW THEIR VOTE TO HILLARY CLINTON. BUT MOST HAD ALREADY DONE THAT, EVEN WITH THE SANDERS’ PRIMARY WIN AND A RESOLUTION WISCONSIN DEMOCRATS PASSED A WEEK AGO AT THEIR CONVENTION. WISCONSIN’S PUBLIC RADIO’S SHAWN JOHNSON JOINS US FOR TONIGHT’S CAPITOL INSIGHT TO TAKE A LOOK AT ALL THIS. HI, SHAWN.

SHAWN JOHNSON:

HEY, FRED.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

EVEN THOUGH BERNIE SANDERS WON WISCONSIN’S PRIMARY BY ABOUT 13 PERCENTAGE POINTS OVER HILLARY CLINTON, MOST OF OUR STATE’S SUPER DELEGATES AS WE’VE JUST EXPRESSED DECLARED THEY WOULD SUPPORT HER. A FEW WERE WAITING KIND OF FOR THE PRIMARIES TO WIND DOWN BEFORE PLEDGING THEIR ALLEGIANCE TO A CANDIDATE. WHAT IS THE CURRENT STATUS OF WISCONSIN’S SUPER DELEGATES RIGHT NOW?

SHAWN JOHNSON:

SO WE HAVE TEN OF THEM. SEVEN OF THEM HAVE SAID THEY’RE GOING TO SUPPORT HILLARY CLINTON. ONE HAS SAID THEY’RE GOING TO SUPPORT BERNIE SANDERS. SO IT HASN’T CHANGED TOO MUCH SINCE PRIMARY DAY, BUT YOU’VE SEEN A COUPLE PEOPLE NOW DECLARE. STILL HAVE TWO SUPER DELEGATES OUT THERE WHO ARE WAITING UNTIL THAT D.C. PRIMARY, THE LAST PRIMARY, WHICH IS NEXT WEEK.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

BUT DIDN’T THE DEMS VOTE AT THEIR STATE CONVENTION VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS RESOLUTION THAT CALLED ON THE NATIONAL DNC TO END SUPER DELEGATES OR MAKE THEM VOTE IN PROPORTION TO THE STATE’S ELECTION RESULTS?

SHAWN JOHNSON:

THEY DID. I THINK YOU HAVE TO PUT THAT IN A LITTLE BIT ON CONTEXT THOUGH. IT WAS A NON-BINDING RESOLUTION. IT WASN’T SOMETHING — SO, I MEAN, ESSENTIALLY IT’S JUST ADVICE FOR THE NATIONAL PARTY, RIGHT? IT’S NOT SAYING WE’RE GOING TO END SUPER DELEGATES, PERIOD. IT’S TELLING THE NATIONAL PARTY YOU NEED TO THINK OF A NEW SYSTEM. MAYBE END SUPER DELEGATES. MAYBE REQUIRE THEM TO VOTE PROPORTIONALLY. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY IT DIDN’T PROVOKE ANY KIND OF A CONFRONTATION BETWEEN HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTERS OR BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTERS. THEY JUST KIND OF LET IT GO THROUGH. IT’S THE OFFICIAL STANCE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT WE WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THIS, BUT IT’S NOT THAT CONSEQUENTIAL CHANGE THAT WOULD BE A LOT TOUGHER TO MAKE. THAT WOULD HAVE TO COME AT THE NATIONAL PARTY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WHAT’S THE RATIONALE ON THE PART OF THE SUPER DELEGATES HERE WHO PLEDGED FOR CLINTON IN THE FACE OF NOT ONLY THIS RESOLUTION, BUT THE PRIMARY RESULTS?

SHAWN JOHNSON:

YEAH. YOU LOOK AT THE MOST RECENT HILLARY CLINTON SUPER DELEGATE, JASON RAY. HE’S A DNC MEMBER. HE WAITED UNTIL AFTER SHE HAD WON THE CALIFORNIA PRIMARY, WHICH WAS SOUGHT AFTER BY SANDERS AS KIND OF THAT LAST HOPE. AND HE SAID THAT HE WANTED TO SUPPORT THE CANDIDATE WHO WOULD HAVE THE MOST DELEGATES IN THE RACE. AND THAT’S GOING TO BE HER NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS IN THE D.C. PRIMARY. YOU LOOK AT OTHER SUPERDELEGATES WHO SUPPORTED HILLARY CLINTON AND THEY DIDN’T SAY THEY LIKE HER. MARTHA LOVE, A LABOR LEADER FROM MILWAUKEE, WHO SERVED AS A HIGH-RANKING DNC OFFICIAL UNDER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON, IT’S CRYSTAL CLEAR TO HER WHO SHE’S GOING TO SUPPORT AND SHE’S REALLY NOT INTERESTED IN CHANGING THE SYSTEM.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO BERNIE SANDERS, THOUGH, SAYS THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED. I HAVE HEARD EXPERTS REJECT THAT. BUT, AGAIN, THIS PROCESS, THIS SYSTEM, IS WHAT PUT HILLARY CLINTON IN THE LEAD.

SHAWN JOHNSON:

IT IS. IT IS. SHE DOESN’T CROSS THAT MAGICAL THRESHOLD THAT SHE NEEDS TO FOR DEMOCRATS WITHOUT SUPER DELEGATES. NEITHER WOULD BERNIE SANDERS, THOUGH. I MEAN, FOR HIM TO SOMEHOW PULL OFF A VICTORY AT THIS POINT WOULD REQUIRE HIM TO CHANGE THEIR MINDS GOING TO THE CONVENTION. SO THIS IS THE SYSTEM THE DEMOCRATS HAVE OPERATED UNDER FOR DECADES. IT MAY BE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THEY DECIDE TO LOOK AT THIS YEAR GIVEN ALL THE ATTENTION IT’S GETTING, ESPECIALLY BY SANDERS’ SUPPORTERS, WHO ARE NEWER TO THE PARTY. BUT RIGHT NOW SUPER DELEGATES WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO EITHER CANDIDATE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

IS IT YOUR SENSE AT THIS POINT THAT THE SANDERS SUPPORTERS WILL PUSH THE SUPER DELEGATE FIGHT AT THE CONVENTION?

SHAWN JOHNSON:

I THINK IT IS PROBABLY AT THIS POINT, IN EARLY JUNE, IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY, RIGHT? YOU DON’T REALLY KNOW WHAT THE MOOD IS GOING TO BE LATE JULY IN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS. I THINK A LOT OF STUFF THAT’S HAPPENED THIS WEEK, YOU KNOW, HILLARY CLINTON WON THAT COVETED CALIFORNIA PRIMARY. THAT’S A MAJOR FEATHER IN HER CAP. PRESIDENT OBAMA, SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN COME OUT ON THE SAME DAY AND SAY WE’RE SUPPORTING HILLARY CLINTON. THOSE ARE SUBSTANTIAL STEPS IN WISCONSIN, PRESIDENT OBAMA IS VERY POPULAR. SO WHO KNOWS WHAT IT’S GOING TO LOOK LIKE COME LATE JULY. WE DO KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTERS WHO ARE EXTREMELY ENTHUSIASTIC BEHIND HIS CANDIDACY AND DON’T LIKE HILLARY CLINTON AND IT MAY BE THEY WANT TO PUSH THIS. IN THAT CASE IT WOULD REALLY BE UP TO HOW BERNIE SANDERS CARRIES HIMSELF.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, WHAT DO YOU THINK MIGHT HAPPEN AT THE CONVENTION IF TRUMP CONTINUES TO KIND OF UPSET POWERFUL REPUBLICANS?

SHAWN JOHNSON:

IT SEEMS PRETTY UNLIKELY THAT THE STOP TRUMP MOVEMENT WOULD TAKE HOLD NOW. I MEAN, I THINK THE TIME FOR THAT WAS MUCH EARLIER IN THE CAMPAIGN, MAYBE WHEN THERE WERE 17 CANDIDATES IN THE RACE STILL. THAT’S WHEN I THINK IN HINDSIGHT REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT TRUMP MORE SERIOUSLY BACK THEN. BUT AT THIS POINT HE HAS CROSSED THAT MAGIC LINE FOR REPUBLICANS. HE’S GOT THE PLEDGE DELEGATES HE NEEDS. IT’S GETTING PRETTY LATE IN THE PROCESS FOR THEM TO CHANGE THAT. SIGNIFICANTLY, THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE AND ITS CONSIDERABLE FINANCIAL RESOURCES IS NOW HELPING DONALD TRUMP. SO IT DOESN’T LOOK LIKE THERE’S ANY EFFORT AT THIS POINT TO PUSH HIM OUT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WE LEAVE IT THERE. SHAWN, THANK YOU.

SHAWN JOHNSON:

THANK YOU.