FREDERICA FREYBERG:

PRO-GUN GROUPS DO NOT FAVOR RESTRICTIONS ON THE PURCHASE OF FIREARMS IF THEY PREVENT AS THEY FEAR LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS FROM BUYING GUNS. AMONG THOSE GROUPS, WISCONSIN CARRY WHOSE PRESIDENT IS NIK CLARK. HE JOINS US NOW FROM MILWAUKEE. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

NIK CLARK:

IT’S A PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WHAT’S YOUR REACTION TO THE SENATE FLOOR FILIBUSTER THAT REPORTEDLY RESULTED IN REPUBLICANS TALKING ABOUT SOME KIND OF BIPARTISAN APPROACH TO PREVENTING PEOPLE ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST, FOR EXAMPLE, INCLUDING THE NO-FLY LIST, FROM PURCHASING FIREARMS?

NIK CLARK:

YEAH. I MEAN, I THINK IT’S REALLY UNFORTUNATE THAT THE CONVERSATION IMMEDIATELY HAS BEEN HIJACKED TO TALK ABOUT SOLUTIONS THAT WOULDN’T ADDRESS THE SITUATION THAT OCCURRED HERE, NOR OTHER TERRORIST ATTACKS THAT HAVE OCCURRED HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. OMAR MATEEN WAS NOT ON A TERROR WATCH LIST BUT YET NOW WE’RE HAVING A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER PEOPLE ON THE TERROR WATCH LIST SHOULD BE ABLE TO BUY GUNS OR NOT. I THINK THAT’S TOTALLY IRRELEVANT BECAUSE HE WASN’T ON THE TERROR WATCH LIST. I’D LIKE TO SEE SOLUTIONS TO PROBLEMS. UNFORTUNATELY WE’RE TALKING ABOUT A PROPOSED SOLUTION THAT WOULDN’T SOLVE THE PROBLEM AT ALL AND THAT’S UNFORTUNATE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT KINDS OF SOLUTIONS COULD YOU IMAGINE THAT WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THE ORLANDO MASSACRE?

NIK CLARK:

THE FIRST THING I THINK THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SHOULD BE DOING AND POLITICIANS INSTEAD OF EVERY TIME THERE’S A TERRORIST ATTACK OR ANY MASS SHOOTING REHASHING THE SAME OLD GUN CONTROL MEASURES, I THINK THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE WE SHOULD BE ASKING WHY DIDN’T THE FBI — BECAUSE THE FBI DID HAVE THIS GUY ON A WATCH LIST AT ONE TIME, TWICE, IN 2013 AND 2014, JUST LIKE THEY HAD THE BOSTON BOMBERS, THE MARATHON BOMBERS IN BOSTON ON THEIR WATCH LIST AND THEY WERE OFF. THE SAN BERNADINO TERRORISTS, THEY WERE NEVER ON A WATCH LIST. SO I THINK THE FIRST QUESTION WE SHOULD ASK IS WHY HAS THE FBI TERROR WATCH LIST FAILED SO MISERABLY? ONCE WE START ASKING THAT QUESTION, THEN WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH THE TERRORISM ASPECT OF THIS. BUT THE SOLUTION THAT I SEE IS TIME AND TIME AGAIN — AND THIS IS WHAT I SHARE WITH MEMBERS. AND WE HAVE CONSTITUENTS IN OUR ORGANIZATION OF EVERY WALK OF LIFE, REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT, THE LGBT COMMUNITY. WE HAVE A HUGE NUMBER OF MEMBERS OF THE LGBT–HUNDREDS OF MEMBERS OF OUR ORGANIZATION ARE MEMBERS OF THE LGBT COMMUNITY. THEY UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN EVERYTHING ELSE FAILS, WHEN THE FBI FAILS, WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FAILS TO KEEP US SAFE, WHEN POLICE CAN’T KEEP YOU SAFE BECAUSE THEY’RE NOT EVERYWHERE, THAT YOU’RE THE ONLY PERSON, AND SO WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT EMPOWERING PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES IF THEY CHOOSE TO AND THAT SHOULD BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT ABOUT THE PROPOSALS, THOUGH, TO RESTRICT THE PURCHASE OF GUNS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE TERROR WATCH LIST? WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT THAT LEGISLATION?

NIK CLARK:

WELL, AS WE’VE SEEN AS AN EXAMPLE WITH THE IRS, EVERYTHING IN WASHINGTON D.C. BECOMES POLITICAL AND GOVERNMENT AGENCIES ARE USED FOR POLITICAL — YOU KNOW, TO MAKE LIFE DIFFICULT FOR POLITICAL ENEMIES WITH SAW WITH THE IRS. MY CONCERN IS HARRY REID, THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER, HE’S A LEADERSHIP POSITION WITH THE DEMOCRATS, HE’S REFERRED TO PEOPLE IN HIS HOME STATE, RANCHERS WHO PROTESTED THE GOVERNMENT POLICY, HE’S REFERRED TO THEM AS DOMESTIC TERRORISTS. THERE’S NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT THOSE ARE INDIVIDUALS — WITH A PHONE CALL. BECAUSE HOW DO PEOPLE GET ON THE WATCH LIST? THE GOVERNMENT JUST DECIDES. SOMEONE MAKES A PHONE CALL AND DECIDES TO PUT THEM ON THERE. I DON’T WANT TO SEE LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS STUCK ON A TERROR WATCH LIST AND HAVE THEIR RIGHTS DENIED. AND I BELIEVE NOT JUST IS THAT LIKELY TO HAPPEN, IT’S VIRTUALLY ASSURED TO HAPPEN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO YOU THINK PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST SHOULD BE ABLE TO PURCHASE GUNS?

NIK CLARK:

I THINK THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST HAS FAILED SO MISERABLY THAT IT SHOULDN’T BE A MEASURE OF WHO CAN AND CAN’T PURCHASE A GUN. BECAUSE THERE’S NO DUE PROCESS. WITH A PHONE CALL FROM ONE GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRAT TO ANOTHER, SOMEONE COULD BE PLACED ON A TERROR WATCH LIST. THEY DON’T KNOW THEY’RE ON THERE UNTIL THEY PERHAPS GO TO BUY A WEAPON AND THEY’RE TURNED DOWN. IF THE FBI WANTS TO INVESTIGATE PEOPLE AND THEY HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE. IF THERE’ PROBABLE CAUSE THAT SOMEONE IS, HAS OR IS ABOUT TO COMMIT A CRIME, THAT’S PROBABLE CAUSE TO ARREST. WITHOUT PROBABLY CAUSE, THERE’S NO REASON TO DENY SOMEONE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. IF I THOUGHT THERE WERE ANGELS EXISTING IN GOVERNMENT AGENCIES THAT WOULD NEVER USE THESE FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES OR STICK LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS WHO JUST DISAGREE WITH THE GOVERNMENT ON THESE LISTS, I WOULD HAVE LESS CONCERN BUT WE KNOW THAT HASN’T HAPPENED IN THE PAST. THAT IS MY CONCERN. WE DON’T KNOW WHO’S ON IT NOW. AND WE KNOW THAT IT’S A GOVERNMENT WISH THAT THEY COULD JUST WITH A PHONE CALL TAKE AWAY SOMEONE’S RIGHTS WITHOUT DUE PROCESS. THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT THIS TERRORIST WATCH LIST WOULD DO. IF THE FBI WANTS TO INVESTIGATE PEOPLE, IF THEY WANT THIS TERRORIST WATCH LIST, I’D LIKE TO SEE SOME DEMONSTRATIONS THAT THIS HAS SUCCEEDED AND I DON’T SEE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT IT HAS. IN FACK IT’S FAILED THREE TIMES. IT FAILED IN BOSTON. IT FAILED IN SAN BERNADINO AND IT FAILED IN FLORIDA. BUT WITHOUT QUESTION I THINK WHAT WE SEE IS THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF THIS BEING USED FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES AND WHO KNOWS WHO MIGHT GET STUCK ON THERE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE. NIK CLARK, THANKS VERY MUCH.

NIK CLARK:

IT’S A PLEASURE. THANK YOU.