Here & Now

Both Sides Weigh In On Changes To Landlord-Tenant Law

Shawn Johnson:

Now to state capitol news and a new law that affects both landlords and tenants. In tonight’s inside look, among the many bills recently signed by Governor Scott Walker was another rewrite of Wisconsin’s landlord/tenant laws. It made a variety of changes. Among them, it further restricts the power of local governments to inspect rental property. It reduces the amount of time someone seeking emergency help can avoid eviction and it requires that a person’s eviction record remain on a publicly accessible website for at least ten years. We hear two perspectives on the new law. First, Ron Hegwood is the president of the Apartment Association of Southeast Wisconsin which helped write the new law. Thanks for joining us.

Ron Hegwood:

You’re welcome.

Shawn Johnson:

This is at least the third major rewrite of landlord/tenant laws in Wisconsin over the past five years. Your organization has supported all of them. Why has there been such a push by landlords to make these changes and why was this latest law needed?

Ron Hegwood:

Well, the landlords that are — or excuse me, the laws that have been changed over the last couple years, as you stated, are rewrites. They’re just a further articulation of what was already on the books and a clarification so that everybody knew what the laws were and would interpret them the same, which in essence, levels the playing field for everybody.

Shawn Johnson:

But if you look at the laws as a whole, they generally tilt more toward landlords in each instance. Why was that needed? Why did you need that shift in Wisconsin?

Ron Hegwood:

I don’t necessarily agree with you on that. I mean, the judges, and rightfully so, will tend to, at least from a landlord’s perspective side on the tenant’s side. So it gives the judges a better clarification on the intent of the law. I mean, there’s nothing that’s changed. Again, it just clarifies the laws.

Shawn Johnson:

So one of the provisions of this new law speaks to when a city or another local government can inspect a property, when it can conduct regular inspections. It allows for those in some cases, but you have to have blight or reduction in property values, things like that. Why wait until those conditions are present to allow for these inspections?

Ron Hegwood:

Well, I'm not aware that any verbiage of that blight or anything like that. It says it has to be a hazard. In other words, a minor pinhole in the wall or something like that doesn’t — some local municipalities were trying to put things in the books where tenants could withhold their rent without validating it and this is an effort to protect that. By all means, everybody needs good housing. There’s no argument on that. But for a tenant to able to not pay their rent for some unvalidated reason, it was an attempt to stop that.

Shawn Johnson:

So when it comes to an eviction, a tenant who’s applied for what’s known as emergency assistance can get a court to stay or temporarily block an eviction notice, but under this new law that court stay can only last for ten days. If someone’s in a dire enough situation that a court would step in and halt an eviction, why limit that?

Ron Hegwood:

Well, first off, you have to take into consideration that by the time you’re in court, it’s already been, I don’t want to say a minimum, but around 30 days and it could be 60 or 90 days since the tenant’s paid any rent. If they’re now going to get emergency assistance, it’s just giving them another ten working days. So it’s actually 14 more days. So a lot of time has already gone past. The feeling is it just, again, it puts clarification on the law that was already on the book, what that reasonable time frame was.

Shawn Johnson:

When this bill went through the legislature, the group End Domestic Abuse Wisconsin testified that this particular provision could put domestic abuse victims in harm’s way because they won’t be able to come up with the money they need in just ten days after they’ve severed ties with an abuser. How do you respond to that concern?

Ron Hegwood:

Well, I'm not sure why we assume that there’s domestic abuse and automatic economic problem with that. I mean, that’s more of an emotional issue than an economic issue. If you have a domestic abuse, again, I go — that’s an emotional situation, not an economic situation. So I wouldn’t equate those two things together.

Shawn Johnson:

And this law also keeps the tenant’s eviction record public on website known as CCAP for at least ten years. Why was that provision added?

Ron Hegwood:

Well, you’re only reading part of the law. Again, I’m not an attorney, so I don’t know the law by heart. If the tenant has satisfied the original eviction, because that is a process, and then it can be erased after two years. It’s only if they haven’t satisfied it that it stays on.

Shawn Johnson:

All right. Ron Hegwood.

Ron Hegwood:

Much like my speeding ticket stays on for a period of time for my insurance company. They want to know what kind of driver I am.

Shawn Johnson:

We're going to have to leave it there. Ron Hegwood, thank you for joining us.

Ron Hegwood:

All right. Thank you.

Shawn Johnson:

In addition to property owners, renters across the state may need to get up to speed on the changes in the new law. We’re joined now by someone who helps tenants full-time in his work as the program director at the Tenant Resource Center based in Madison. Aaron Romens, thanks for joining us.

Aaron Romens:

Thank you for having me.

Shawn Johnson:

So backers of this law say it’s about setting clear timelines, a level playing field. How do you view it?

Aaron Romens:

Well, I never understand the idea about a level playing field because it’s not a level playing field. Landlords, especially property managers, it’s their job to understand all of these different law changes. The sixth set now since 2011. Meanwhile tenants, they already have other jobs. That’s how they’re getting the money to pay their rent. So if we’re talking about leveling a playing field, I believe that all these changes just continue to create confusion to the point where tenants now almost need to take out a second-time job just to catch up with all these changes.

Shawn Johnson:

So there’s a lot to digest in this new law, but what is most troubling to you or what do you think tenants need to know about?

Aaron Romens:

Well, first of all, what’s troubling for me is the idea that municipalities are now extremely limited in their ability to have routine building inspections. These inspections are really important to protect the safety of the tenants. They are the things that make sure that tenants are safe from fire or other very hazardous and dangerous situations that could put them in the hospital. It’s going to be very difficult under these new regulations for municipalities to have routine building inspections under Act 317.

Shawn Johnson:

So there are provisions in this law that say cities and local governments would still be able to conduct regular inspections in areas where there’s evidence of blight, high rates of building code violations, other conditions. Won’t that let cities zero in on the most problematic rentals?

Aaron Romens:

Well, it’s telling them how to zero. I don’t know if that’s necessarily the right way to go about this. Cities are very different from one to another and probably should be able to do this in the way that they see fit. It is a lot of micromanagement, I feel, from the state to be telling cities exactly these very precise ways of conducting their building inspections.

Shawn Johnson:

So what if someone wants to challenge a landlord now in small claims court? What could they do before and how has that changed now?

Aaron Romens:

So in small claims court when landlords and tenants have a dispute, especially in case of an eviction, it goes to what would be considered a joinder conference or a return date. And at this conference, tenants would be able to get a trial by just claiming that there’s a contest. The idea that they disagree with something that the landlord is saying. Now they have to be able to raise valid legal grounds. And we’re not sure exactly what those valid legal grounds may be. We have some ideas. But what it probably means is that tenants are going to have to know some magic legal words, some sort of law language that gets them there. And tenants are represented at about a rate of 1% in Wisconsin by attorneys. Most of them are there by themselves. And to ask them to determine what are valid legal grounds and to bring them up at a hearing like this I think is not appropriate.

Shawn Johnson:

So in practice, won’t most renters be okay even under this law as long as they pay the rent on time?

Aaron Romens:

Well, that’s always an interesting question because everything is always fine until a problem comes up, right? That’s what we find at the Tenants Resource Center. Nobody really calls us and says everything is going great with my landlord, you know? And so, yeah, if things are going well, things are going well. But the problems is tenants have a lot of rights, and these laws not only take away some of those rights, but also create a lot of confusion about them and they may not be willing to assert some of the rights that they already still have.

Shawn Johnson:

All right. Aaron Romens, the Program Director at the Tenant Resource Center based in Madison, thanks for joining us.

Aaron Romens:

All right. Thank you for having me.