To Dine For with Kate Sullivan

-It started when I was like four or five years old.

KATE SULLIVAN

Right.

PAYAL KADAKIA

When I found this deep passion for something I love.

KATE SULLIVAN

Payal Kadakia is one of the most successful young female founders of our time.

PAYAL KADAKIA

If there's a problem, I want to solve it.

KATE

Interesting.

PAYAL KADAKIA

-Do whatever I can to solve it.

KATE

It all started while she was pursuing her passion for dance, and she saw a need that no one was meeting.

PAYAL KADAKIA

I almost felt, it was unfair-

KATE

She created a company called ClassPass, to help everyday people book their favorite fitness class. It seemed crazy at the time.

PAYAL KADAKIA

No one went to class. It was really embarrassing.

KATE

But that crazy idea turned into a billion-dollar company.

PAYAL KADAKIA

I gave myself two weeks.

KATE

Two weeks! Today Payal is taking me to her all-time favorite restaurant, to eat what she loves and find out why she loves it.

PAYAL

It's lots, it's very cheesy.

KATE

And then we're hearing the full story of how this young dancer is changing an industry forever, and in turn creating a billion-dollar brand.

PAYAL

I remember thinking, why is this not as easy as OpenTable is for booking a restaurant, right?

KATE

And, while facing a global pandemic, she's returning to where it all began to determine what's next for her company and how her true passion will lead the way.

PAYAL

It all passes, right?

KATE

It does.

PAYAL

And it's about moving forward so the journey gets to where you need to go. *

KATE

What's better in life than a bottle of wine, great food and an amazing conversation? My name is Kate Sullivan and I am the host of To Dine For. I'm a journalist, a foodie, a traveler, with an appetite for the stories of people who are hungry for more. Dreamers. Visionaries. Artists. Those who hustle hard in the direction they love. I travel with them to their favorite restaurant, to hear how they did it. This show is a toast to them and their American dream. To Dine For with Kate Sullivan is made possible by... * * * We feed the world with purpose, a purpose to raise expectations, set new standards, and lead the way. *

KATE SULLIVAN

Today I'm in Century City, California, on my way into Javier's, known for incredible Mexican food, and craft cocktails. I'm meeting one of the most successful young female founders of our time. She didn't set out to be an entrepreneur, but the lessons she learned along the way are priceless. I can't wait for you to meet Payal Kadakia.

TOGETHER

KATE SULLIVAN

Hi, how are you?

KATE

Thank you so much for doing this.

PAYAL KADAKIA

Of course, hello.

KATE

Great to meet you!

PAYAL KADAKIA

Nice to meet you too!

KATE

Oh, this is so fun, I can't wait to eat at Javier's.

PAYAL KADAKIA

Yes, me too!

KATE

Welcome to Javier's. Located on the sunny streets of Century City California, Javier's fits right in with the vibe of this neighborhood. Known for upscale shopping and power lunching, Century City is where business gets done. With such beautiful surroundings, it's no wonder you walk in the door of Javier's, and it just feels fabulous. I was really struck by how tropical this restaurant is.

PAYAL KADAKIA

Yeah, that's actually what I love about it the most, it's like this whole vibe that feels like cool and chic and you can hang out in right, and then it's the best Mexican food too.

KATE

The minute you step into Javier's, the atmosphere alone lets you know you're in for a treat. The 11,000 square-foot space is designed to be an oasis, from the high-stressed business district outside. With oversized booths, lush greenery, and natural materials everywhere, Javier's feels like an upscale beach resort. 750 candles light the space; that's right, 750! And the custom mosaic floors are hard to miss, with more than two million hand laid stones. It is a far cry from a traditional Mexican restaurant.

JOSUE JARQUIN

We give you that vibe, to happiness, and we want to do our best for you, and your friends or family.

KATE

The first location of Javier's was founded more than two decades ago in Laguna Beach. The concept of elevated Mexican dining caught on; Javier's now has six locations in the U.S. and Mexico.

JOSUE JARQUIN

: Every single Mexican restaurant has this combination of enchiladas, tacos, you know. But traditional dishes, I mean, Mexico is a huge country. Javier' brings different tastes.

KATE

Javier's chefs have brought in family favorites from across Mexico, to dream up a menu to make your mouth water. Ceviche, fajitas, enchiladas, and crudo. Not to mention their specialty, hand-shaken margaritas, an enormous selection of fine tequilas, that make every meal a fiesta. And, we take the mask off. Uh. Ahh, so nice to be here.

PAYAL KADAKIA

Nice to meet you-

KATE

Yeah, so nice to meet you. This is fantastic. Today, over fresh guacamole and cheese and chicken enchiladas, Payal Kadakia is sharing her story with us. This 37-year-old entrepreneur has been on a rollercoaster ride, paving a new path for the fitness industry. But like all roller coasters, she's had her ups, and downs, along the way. Of all the restaurants in L.A., and there's so many wonderful restaurants in this city, why Javier's in particular?

PAYAL KADAKIA

I love their food; but I also just love the ambience.

KATE

The ambience and the dcor is really unique here, isn't it? You really do feel like you're transported away from Century City into somewhere else.

PAYAL

Right right. I mean look at it, all the amazing plants, and you feel like you're breathing fresh air. You almost feel like you're in a tropical island-

KATE

You do.

PAYAL

Mexican food is my favorite food, I've been eating it since I was a child, and it really for me represents this time in my family where we would celebrate going out to my favorite restaurant, which was called Chi-Chi's, when we were younger, for any person's birthday, for any person's sort-of, like someone got straight A's, it was sort of where we went to celebrate.

KATE

So food is a celebration for you.

PAYAL

Exactly.

KATE

I feel the same way, I think food should be, I think life should be celebrated every day, so I love that.

JOSUE

Welcome to Javier's. My name is Josue, I'll be taking care of you today.

KATE

I think you already know what you want, you wanted an enchilada right?

PAYAL

Yeah, I'm going to get some cheese and chicken enchiladas.

KATE

And I'm going to have the same thing she's having.

PAYAL

Wow, really!?

JOSUE

Thank you.

KATE

I'm really interested to hear how you grew up, and how your background and your parents shaped who you became.

PAYAL

My parents are extraordinary people, um, they came to America in the 70's and they came here with nothing. They uh, fell in love when they were younger, and it's interesting 'cause everyone's always like 'Why is that a big deal?' but in India, you don't fall in love and get married. That's not normal.

KATE

They were the anomaly!

PAYAL

Exactly, they actually had a love marriage, and people are always like 'What's a love marriage?' and I'm like, that means they actually loved each other and decided to run away to America to start their life. And, you know, I think about who I am today and I think so much of that comes from their sense of, not their rebellious spirit per se, but their sense of wanting to live the life they want and doing anything in their means to make it happen.

KATE

From the start, Payal's parents were on a mission to give their daughter the best America had to offer. They put down their life savings on a house to get Payal and her sister into the number one school district in New Jersey.

PAYAL

And, they made it work you know. My parents worked two jobs, my mom worked overnight. They couldn't afford someone to take care of me and my sister, so during the day she would be home, and then she run to work- she would go to work at like 8 PM at night.

KATE

Wow, what did she do?

PAYAL

She was a chemist. She was an environmental chemist. So was my dad, so both my parents were chemists.

KATE

You developed a love of dance at a very young age. When did you know that it was a real passion of yours?

PAYAL

Dance became a big part of my life when I think I was about 3 years old. And it's part of Indian culture, right, in a way, so I know everyone always sees Indian dance weddings and things like that-

KATE

Like Bollywood dancing-

PAYAL

Bollywood dancing. But, at the core level, you know, sort of going into dance classes when you were younger is sort of like this thing that every Indian girl did growing up. By the way, there was no ballet school for us to go to, or some fancy studio. We would train in basements. And it was so beautiful to sort of learn about my culture, my heritage, where I come from. Especially growing up in America, you know I didn't really have that deep connection because I wasn't around people who looked like me all the time.

KATE

So really, dance was an education for you-

PAYAL

Absolutely.

KATE

And a look into your culture.

PAYAL

Exactly, like I think it helped me learn about the beauty of who I was, I think especially as a woman it made me feel like I belonged, and I was connecting to, you know, my grandmothers and my ancestors in a way that, you know, I wouldn't be able to every single day. And I was also a cheerleader, and I was also playing sports and things like that, so I had that side of me too. But I think dance played this very, very, very intrinsic role in helping me with my identity.

KATE

I'm really fascinated that you went to MIT with such a strong passion for dance, there aren't very many dancers at MIT I would imagine.

PAYAL

So that's another whole part of uh, I think like, the dual identity I've always had. I loved math and science, and a part of me actually sees dance in a very analytical way, as much as I see it as a creative way.

KATE

Interesting.

PAYAL

And I actually wrote my MIT, like one of my essays, on how dance to me was all geometry. And that's just how my brain processed it, and so I find a way that they're really deeply connected. I was also not told that I could just be an artist when I grew up, right. It wasn't something that, was something that would be okay.

KATE

Like so many, Payal felt the pressure

from her parents to become what they dreamt for her

a doctor, a lawyer, maybe even a scientist. Payal followed that path, graduating from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MIT, a tech college that ranks up there with some of the most prestigious universities in the country. You graduated from MIT and you get that great job.

PAYAL

Yeah.

KATE

Right, you get that great job, you're sort of on a corporate track.

PAYAL

Yep, I found a dance troupe when I was in New York City, and so when my friends were all working, you know, and I was working too, but after work, when they would go out and want to like party, I'd be like, 'I have to go to rehearsal,' and I'd wake up on Saturday mornings and I'd be rehearsing all day long. I'd perform on Saturday and Sundays, and then I would just go back to the grind of working through the week. So, it was interesting, because I started sensing a conflict, for me, my third year at Bain.

KATE

You could tell which way your life was kind of being pulled-

PAYAL

Pulled, exactly, although, you know, once again, I had no full reason for it, I didn't, I didn't know where it was going to go. So what I did is I went and got what I considered to be an easier job in the sense it was like more predictable hours, so I went and worked in the music industry, I got sort of like, a corporate job, I got to work like the 9-5, but I knew at 5 o'clock, I could leave work, I could make it to dance at 6 o'clock-

KATE

It was always about dance for you.

PAYAL

It was always about dance for me. Even though I probably didn't tell my parents that at the time. My parents were like, 'okay so you're studying for the GMAT's?' I'm like 'Yeah, I'm studying for the GMATs' and on the side I ended up building my first company, which was my dance company.

KATE

The Sa Dance Company, named after the first and last note in the octave in Indian classical music, was Payal's way to follow her passion. She created and led a dance company, made up of dancers like her, dancers with day jobs, who had a calling for Indian dance after hours. What was, what was the company? What was the business model?

PAYAL

It was about performance. So it was an artistic performing arts company, we were about like, dancing at festivals, and being- all these girls, like I said, have been training in Indian dance since they were like 4 or 5 years old too. Right. It's just like, there was no Julliard for us to go to being Indian dancers. So we kind of needed to like, find our own way, and keep dance in our lives, whichever way we could. And so when I started Sa, I literally wanted to find a way to put the beauty and professionalism into Indian dance that I had seen in companies like Alvin Ailey.

KATE

And it wasn't so much about the business aspect, or the entrepreneurial aspect as it was filling a need that you saw.

PAYAL

Exactly. That's really like, for me how I work, that's, that's how I build things in the world. I'm a very... If there's a problem, I want to solve it. And I will do whatever I can to solve it. So I was like, there was a need, I'm gonna go create it.

KATE

I can fix it. Wow.

JOSUE

Hot plate.

KATE

Beautiful plate. So this is your order! This is incredible!

PAYAL

Yeah. This is- my parents are vegetarian, so the cheese enchilada is something I sort of got from them, because they would, they always would order-

KATE

One for you and one for your family.

PAYAL

Yeah, basically I feel like I'm honoring them by eating it.

KATE

That's adorable. Wow look at that, wow!

PAYAL

It's lots, it's very cheesy.

KATE

You've created this dance troupe and you are working on this business, and you see yet another need in the market, how did that happen? How did the first- it wasn't called ClassPass, it was called...

PAYAL

It was called the Classtivity-

KATE

Yes, tell me how that started.

PAYAL

Yeah so, here I was sitting at my desk at Warner you know, dancing where I could and performing and all of that, and I had built my dance company at this point, and we were doing well you know and once again, this was something I was doing in post-work hours and on the weekends; and I also at the time was like, I want to do something more. I didn't know what I wanted to do, I knew my current job was like not what I wanted to really be doing with all my time. I had been working, I had saved up money for six years. And so I actually went out to San Francisco and all these entrepreneurs started telling me about like this app and gadget and this site they were working on, and it was interesting cause I'm a creative person, and I'm also a problem solver, and you know, I had studied business and engineering at MIT, and I was like, I can figure this out, like but what do I want to do, right? That is always the million-dollar question. People are always like, 'I want to build something,' but what? I gave myself two weeks.

KATE

Two weeks!

PAYAL

Yeah so this was a Sunday, and I said 'you know what'? I am so inspired by all these entrepreneurs I met, maybe I can think of an idea. Dance had been sort of like this North Star in my life, I didn't really think about it in that way. And so, I'm on the plane, I took like a red-eye back, and Monday I end up skipping my ballet class that I usually go to because I was really tired. And on Tuesday morning, I go to work, I have my ballet clothes with me, and I remember thinking 'You know, I want to try a new class.' I get online, and I go to like five, six different websites of the different studios I know in New York and I ended up spending like hours just looking for the right class. Like whether it was I didn't know if the teacher was right for me, how I was going to get there, was I gonna miss it, and then if I was going to miss my next practice after that, and in that process, I remember thinking, why is this not as easy as OpenTable is for booking a restaurant, right?

KATE

So you saw a need for a website that really organized classes, whether they were dance classes or fitness classes, in one location.

PAYAL

Exactly. Think about it right, of everything I just told you, dance was this place where I felt alive. I thought about how many people who had given up on their passions. Being an Indian, you know, or a child of two immigrant parents, like that was definitely the path that-

KATE

The pressure, yes.

PAYAL

Yeah pressure, path that felt secure. But, I like, I think just knowing because I found dance when I was so young, that there was more and that people were missing out on something that I knew was so beautiful, I just felt so compelled to solve this problem.

KATE

So ClassPass really started as a problem that you wanted to solve, but more than that, it sounds like there's a deeper meaning, and that is, you wanted to give people the same joy and the same fulfillment that you felt through dance.

PAYAL

Absolutely. That was always the core, is I wanted people to feel that alive. I almost felt it was unfair when I saw people who didn't have that passion that I had in dance.

KATE

How can you cultivate that kind of passion? And how can you identify it in your life? Cause not everyone's a dancer, has an interest in dance.

PAYAL

And that's the whole thing right, that's why it's ClassPass, it's not about dance, right. People are like "Oh, why didn't you just do it for dance?" and I'm like, because I never thought that it would be dance for everyone. Yeah, I love dance, but everyone else-

KATE

So, it's all sorts of classes?

PAYAL

It's really about how you spend your free time. I want people to go to shows, I want people to go to Broadway, I want people to go to the opera. You know, I want people to live a life that is full. It's really about you giving yourself the freedom to do it.

KATE

But building ClassPass from the ground up wasn't easy. It took Payal three years to actually build the product before she could even launch to the public. And let's just say, it wasn't an instant success.

PAYAL

I had to pivot. The first few products I launched did not work, no one went to class.

KATE

No one went to class?

PAYAL

It was really embarrassing. Yes, and we spent money building it, and-

KATE

So you started, and you had, you create this forum that allows people to actually sign up for classes, and no one signed up?

PAYAL

Yep, so we built a search engine for classes. It was like, basically OpenTable, for classes. You know, all was looking great, and then we launched. And I had maybe like, one booking a week, it was so sad. And my entire business model was based upon volume.

KATE

Yeah.

PAYAL

When I dug in deeper, I realized there was more to this, right? It's more about this idea of fear. It's this idea of I'm too busy. And when I kind of put all these classes in front of someone, it was almost like, there was too much, too much decision tax, for anyone to actually be able to go.

KATE

I'm curious as to how you got from, got over that first hurdle of not getting subscribers, not getting people actually, how- what brought you to the next level of actually having people go to the site and have it work?

PAYAL

So that's when I returned back to, why did I start this company? I still had money in the bank, I still had another day to fight, to solve, the problem. And that's really like, what energized me. It was like, we can still do this! Like, we're not, we're not done! We can just think of a new idea.

KATE

Payal's next idea was a subscription model. Her thought was if someone paid for the unlimited membership, they'd be more likely to show up for the classes and get hooked. And did they ever. ClassPass took off. Spreading to 30 countries over five continents, offering up more than 244,000 fitness classes to try. To date, users have booked more that 70 million classes, taking the company's valuation to a billion dollars in early 2020. You could say their mission to motivate users to work out is working. When you look back at ClassPass, what else really has been responsible for launching it to where it is now? Which is incredibly successful.

PAYAL

So, I think what ClassPass has fundamentally done has changed human behavior. And I think products that change human behavior and our habits are the products that last forever, right. Amazon, something now shows up at my door, right. Uber, someone can take me from Point A to Point B. Netflix, you know, everything is sort of available on my, my subscription, right. I think it's like one of those things where when you can change the way people, if they used to do something and now they do it this way-

KATE

Change their behavior.

PAYAL

Exactly, you change their fundamental behavior. Fitness, for most people, is a sense of obligation, it's a sense of oh my god, it's like a, it's kind of a, it's like a tough topic in a way right, and it's something that's like hard for people. I truly believe, like, ClassPass has made fitness fun. We made it something that was about trying new things, and it exciting.

KATE

Can I just say how delicious these enchiladas are? Oh my gosh. I mean we've been talking away, but I am enjoying these so much.

PAYAL

They're so good.

KATE

They are SO good.

PAYAL

Do you like the chicken one better or the-

KATE

I like them both.

PAYAL

So good. Oh my god I just got-

KATE

So good. So good. I know-

PAYAL

I just got-

KATE

They're a little messy, but um, in a good way.

PAYAL

Do I sill have enchilada sauce on my nose?

KATE

No, you don't you're good.

laughter

KATE

I'm really fascinated by the relationship people have with failure, um cause, it can be one of our greatest teachers-

PAYAL

One hundred percent.

KATE

And it sounds like the story of ClassPass is a lot of trial and error-

PAYAL

One hundred percent.

KATE

A lot of iteration, a lot of trying it a different way, let's see if this fits.

PAYAL

Uh huh. After going through this like first iteration, and sort of having no one come to the site, I changed my relationship with failure. I see failure as a data point. Failure and success are very similar. They are moments in time.

KATE

Mm.

PAYAL

And you actually move past them. And I've learned to like kind of embrace both of them now.

KATE

I love what you said, that failure is a data point. And if you can just view it as information that allows you to go the next way-

PAYAL

Yep. Every time ClassPass didn't work, I realized, well what did work in that? And sometimes you might be completely off left-field, okay great, you know what that means try something on the other side right, and maybe you're closer. It's like throwing darts.

KATE

Yes.

PAYAL

There's always another chance.

KATE

You know, when you look at the, the landscape of ClassPass, and what year did it actually launch?

PAYAL

2013.

KATE

2013. So in seven short years, isn't that crazy-

PAYAL

Yeah, I mean it's, it's unbelievable because before the pandemic, I mean, we were in 30 countries-

KATE

'Before the pandemic.' It is a phrase that now quantifies our lives. Right before the pandemic in January of 2020, ClassPass achieved the valuation of one billion dollars, but 95% of their studios had to shut down because of Covid. ClassPass took a huge hit. So I think it's so important that, you know people keep dreaming, right. So, what's next for you, and what are you personally dreaming of that has you excited.

PAYAL

There is still part of me that is a dreamer when it comes to my, you know, my dance career, and I think Covid's been this beautiful time for me to be able to just get back into my training, get back into choreographing; um yeah, my dream is to, you know, really allow them to perform at some of the top venues in the world, whether it's Lincoln Center, Kennedy Center, the music center here in L.A., it's just, my dream is to present Indian dance on global stages.

KATE

Hmm. So, essentially you want to create an Indian ballet based here in the U.S.?

PAYAL

Correct. It's an Indian ballet, it's all based on Indian dance.

KATE

Isn't it fascinating, that, you know, so much has paused, so much has stopped during the pandemic, and for people who are high-energy, go-getters, it didn't stop. It just then allowed you actually to be more creative.

PAYAL

One hundred percent. I think this is one of the best times to be creative, to learn a skill, right, to dream again.

KATE

It sounds like your success has shown you a huge responsibility you have to show the world what is possible, what you can do.

PAYAL

There's no blueprint when you build companies like this, right. It is purely, it's on instincts, it is on, you know, data, it is on hustle. And that, like I said, comes from a deep sense of it being so connected to who I am, right. ClassPass didn't start the day I was looking for that ballet class. It started when I was like, four or five years old, when I found this deep passion for something I love.

KATE

Payal Kadakia is a really fun dinner guest, her MIT training and creative problem solving on full display throughout this meal. She loves to dance, and wants the whole world to feel the kind of joy and fulfillment she feels on stage. She created a company with a convincing premise, book a class, when you want. Find that joy, where you can. And her little idea wasn't so little after all, was it. Her future is now uncertain, just like everyone these days, but her plans are a return to how it all began, a nod to her culture, a reverence for her family, and her desire to bring pure joy to as many people as possible. What a way to pursue, and achieve the American Dream. I'd like to make a toast-

PAYAL

Yes, let's do it.

KATE

Payal, thank you for being on To Dine For, it is an honor to hear your story-

PAYAL

Thank you so much for having me.

KATE

And you really are very inspiring. Cheers to you.

PAYAL

Cheers.

KATE

For more information on the guests, the restaurants, and the inspiring stories of success, please visit the website ToDineForTV.com, or you can follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. To Dine For with Kate Sullivan is made possible by... * * * We feed the world with purpose, a purpose to raise expectations, set new standards, and lead the way. *