The Chavis Chronicles

>> Soo Kim, entrepreneur extraordinaire, next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

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We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and our communities.

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Learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

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Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.

>> We're very pleased to welcome Soo Kim to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Dr. Chavis, the honor's mine.

Thank you.

>> You have an outstanding career, and I want to just go into it first.

Where were you originally born?

>> Born in Korea, but growing up in Queens.

>> Were your family members also business people?

How did you get involved in business?

>> No, no, no.

My dad was actually a doctor.

He came here in '77, before we got here, to finish his med school.

And actually, I think one of the reasons why it was important for me to figure this out is because he was probably such a bad businessperson., Like, we had our set of challenges, even though one might say, "Oh, you're a son of a doctor," or, "Your kid's a doctor," or something like that.

Like, "You'd be all right."

But we've had our challenges.

And so it was important for me to figure that out.

>> There's a debate about public education in America.

Are the schools really preparing young people to have success?

Tell us about your early childhood education.

>> Yeah, look, I mean, I was fortunate.

I went to public schools, you know, back in the '80s and '90s.

And I think back then there was no doubt that they did the job in New York.

And there was a opportunity to get what was essentially a world-class education if you just, you know, continued to do all right in the public school system.

There was a track for that.

Public school catering to those families that don't necessarily have the option to send their kids to, you know, even another track, you know?

But they still work.

They still exist.

And, yeah, no, I was a fortunate beneficiary of that.

>> So, tell us -- how did you ascend up the business ladder?

>> Look, I will tell you that, growing up in Queens, you learn a couple things.

First of all, Queens is the most diverse county in the country.

So, I think there's like 150 languages spoken.

And, you know, there, diversity isn't something to, you know -- it's not a term.

It's just -- It's a reality.

And so I think it's great training for, you know, my journey in life because Queens was not very Asian.

Now it is actually quite Asian.

And so you just learn to get by and you deal with it.

And so it was good training 'cause then after my high school, I went to Princeton for my undergrad.

And that was a completely different world, like pretty much the diametric opposite.

And that was also good training for me to figure it out, right?

And so after that, I came right back to New York.

I just wanted to come back home and start working.

You know, there I found myself -- I guess this is 25 years ago now -- working on Wall Street, you know, not quite carrying the briefcase, but wearing the suit, and that, too, was a journey of, you know, being comfortable with a little bit of discomfort, but -- >> What did you do on Wall Street initially?

>> I've been in the business of doing -- actually, an esoteric term.

It's called distressed debt investing or stressed and distressed investing.

So, looking at mostly troubled companies -- you know, so, credit and equities-in-trouble companies -- and seeing whether or not there's an opportunity to fix them, turn them around, and then you make money if the thing works out.

>> Fast-forward.

You own some of the major radio stations in New York City -- WBLS, Hot 97 -- two remarkable radio stations serving our nation's largest city.

>> Look, it's a responsibility.

And we've been trying to, you know, turn that business around.

I think it's -- Look, the radio business is challenged.

So it's -- We're still in the process of doing so.

But, you know, it's been very important for us to do so in a way that is authentic and is also in keeping with the heritage of what BLS and Hot 97 were and are still today.

And it's important for us to move it forward economically, make it a better business, but also retain that history 'cause I think that's part of why it is -- it will be even a better business in the future.

So, when I got there, it was being run out of Indianapolis, you know, which is great.

But, like, I think that there's nothing wrong -- I have no beef with Indianapolis, but I just thought that, you know, it'd probably be better to hire a local management team, a management team that reflects the community.

>> So, your principle earlier about the business reflecting its customer base.

So, in Hot 97 and WBLS, your management team now reflects the community that it serves.

>> Absolutely.

The whole company does.

We are -- It's reflective from the board, you know, officers, you know, all of the team, you know, to the audience.

Absolutely.

>> And you have major business interests also in Chicago.

How did you have this kind of success in one of the nation's largest cities?

>> It's kind of interesting 'cause the city of Chicago has been trying to get a casino since gaming has been legalized in Illinois for I think about 20 years or so.

It's a multi-decade -- And lots of people tried to pull it off, but the last mayor, Mayor Lightfoot, actually did.

Like, it was one of the -- I don't think she's going to get enough credit for that.

But she came in and she said, "Hey, we got to fix this."

And so even though the state had passed a law enabling a city of Chicago casino a few years back, it was still messed up.

The taxes were wrong, you know, and it wasn't attracting any other bidders.

So, a couple of years ago she went -- right at the beginning, she went down to Springfield, got the law changed so that it would attract a set of bidders.

We saw that.

We saw the news of that and said, "Hey, you know, we --" So, I'm the chairman of Bally's.

We said, "Let's go after the city of Chicago.

That sounds like an exciting opportunity."

Look, it's the third largest metropolis in the country.

So, it's a wonderful opportunity to try to create a regional destination.

So we went out and bid against, you know -- This was now, I guess, a little more than a year ago.

You know, we set out to bid against, you know, some of the grantees of the city.

But, you know, how we did it is we just worked harder.

I mean, look, when you have no -- When you're born with no advantages, when you come into a situation with no advantages, you just have to work harder.

You have to be more intentional about every action that you take because you don't have any advantages.

So, there we worked really hard to get community support.

And so we were the only bidder of the five that ultimately bid that had local aldermanic support.

We worked hard with organized labor.

Chicago is a proud, organized labor city, and we were the only bidder that had the unions on our side, you know, going into the bid, you know?

And I just think people, a lot of -- sometimes when you have all the advantages, you take things for granted, like, "Oh, we'll get that later," and, "We don't have to do that now."

And so I think that leaves room for someone like ourselves, who doesn't take anything for granted and is willing to, you know, put in the work now and then show up and then, before they knew it, you know, we had all the advantages, you know?

>> So hard work pays off.

>> It does.

It does.

It doesn't always.

I mean, look, I'm not saying -- I'm not so naive to think that hard work alone is going to make it work.

But if you're willing to do it, if you're willing to put in the work, you're willing to be intentional about, you know, building your alliances and not taking things for granted, it really does help.

>> You know, a lot of people give lip service to DEI.

>> Yeah.

>> Diversity, equity, and inclusion.

But as an Asian-American businessperson in New York, now in Chicago and other parts of the country, how has being an Asian-American either hindered you or helped you?

>> So, in terms of diversity, it's interesting.

I really try not to use the acronyms and, you know -- I'm more of a representation person.

And so, you know, one of the questions I ask is, "Well, you know, who is our audience, who are our customers, and is our company, you know, aligned to them?"

Right?

'Cause, you know -- >> Representation.

>> Absolutely.

So, if you know who your audience or your customers are, then you should have a workforce that looks like your audience, that looks like your customer base, right?

And then you should have management that looks like your workforce, and then you should have, you know, upper management and directorships and officers that look like your management that looks like your workers that look like your customers.

That's just good business.

To me, like, there's no better business than that.

There's nothing more greedy than to make sure that you are aligned with your customer base.

So, I think that that's the way I define it.

I don't define it in some term that you can look up in a book.

I think it's very straightforward, you know?

Like, that's just gravity.

Representation is gravity.

So, for Asian-Americans specifically, it's kind of interesting.

You know, we have a different experience here.

The Black and Asian communities are actually -- were united by one thing.

It's that we share the fact that we have immutable characteristics.

You know, we're just going to look different.

>> Right.

>> You know?

And you can't -- >> Immutable characteristics.

>> Yeah, exactly.

We just we just look different, and that's okay.

Different doesn't mean bad or worse or good or bad or -- There's no weight to that.

It's just immutably different, you know?

And that's -- I think ultimately that's a great thing for America 'cause America is really this -- this melting pot, this multicultural, multiethnic country that is a weave, a strong weave of the differences, which makes a much, you know -- you know, ultimately, a better product.

You know, our journey as Asian-Americans is interesting because we also have our history of discrimination.

Obviously, you know, like -- You know, Asian-Americans were the only ones ever rounded up during a war, right?

Like, you know, it's not like, you know, when the Americans were fighting the Japanese and the Germans, they didn't round up the Germans and put them in a concentration camp, right?

I don't think Asian-Americans were even allowed to emigrate to the country until like '64, '63?

So, you know, we thank the civil rights movement for the beginning -- for allowing us -- So, my dad came in '77, right?

But, like, again, it's the wave of the immigration that was allowed because the rules started to change in the '60s, you know?

And so I'm a direct beneficiary of, really, the greater arc of the civil rights movement.

So, I think that our experiences are a little different in America, but similar, analogous.

I do believe that there is structural racism, right?

So -- But that's okay.

That doesn't mean -- It just means that we just have to do better.

You know, it's not like -- it's not like the be-all, end-all.

It's better than it was, and it doesn't mean that we're good enough.

And we just got to keep working at it.

If the Black community suffers from, like, a pushing down, and so it doesn't actually matter if you're, you know, a Black doctor, you know, with all these PhDs.

When you get pulled over by a cop, you're scared, you know?

>> Exactly.

>> And so that's a unifying experience.

That pushing down brings the community together.

And -- But so it's interesting that it's so unfair.

Yet America is a team sport.

And what I've noticed is that, you know, that shared experience then brings that community together and now you can act with political force.

So, that's pretty exciting, you know, and to see how much change your community has actually brought by being together.

Now, Asian-Americans -- we don't quite have those numbers, but our journey is different.

We're not pushed down.

I think we're pushed up, you know, but pushed up and about, you know?

Like, Asian-Americans in America are taught that our competition is other Asian-Americans, right?

'Cause I'm like, "Hey, there's only a handful of spots, you know, for us, people that look like us in those situations.

So I got to beat you.

I don't have to beat everyone else.

I have to beat you."

I feel like the Asian-American community doesn't come together, you know, doesn't stick together.

And I think part of it is the structure that we have to get through to get wherever it was to make it, "make it."

That's something that I've just observed in my career, and it's something that I try to work against and make sure that, you know, we of immutable characteristics and shared histories, you know, try to stick together to help each other in America 'cause America is, again, a team sport.

I keep saying it, but it's important.

And we have to resist the fact that we've been pitted against each other to that point.

It's not, you know, Asians against any other groups.

It's actually Asian-Americans against Asian-Americans.

And so it's something that, you know, I spend a lot of time thinking about and, you know, wondering, how do we, you know, get through it?

>> You mentioned how America has evolved as a multiracial, multicultural, multilingual society.

Do you see the pendulum moving in the right direction in terms of diversity being embraced by all Americans?

>> You know, the history of America is so interesting 'cause, you know, we -- You know, growing up in school, you celebrate, like, the pilgrims, right?

You know, like, "Oh, the Pilgrims landed, you know, in Cape Cod, you know, and made America."

Well, that's actually not entirely true.

You know, obviously, the Pilgrims were pretty -- and the Puritans -- they were pretty closed-minded.

And they were -- They were -- They did not -- They did not -- I don't think they would be really into the whole diversity thing right now, you know?

But I love this country.

I don't criticize it.

You know, I have been fortunate to have been born elsewhere, come here, and appreciate it for what it is.

I've also traveled a lot, you know?

So, I've been a lot of places.

But whenever I landed back at JFK, I'm like, "Thank God I'm home," you know?

And so I think that America can always be better, but I think it is better than it was and it will continue to be better.

>> As a distinguished, successful Asian-American businessperson, how do you see the future of America?

>> I think the future's bright.

You know, I think that, you know, there's still -- Having spent time in other places, there's still -- It's very hard to find a system, as imperfect as it is sometimes, you know, that works as good for as many people.

So, look, there's a reason, for better or for worse, why there's still millions of people lining up to try to get here, you know?

You know, and for whatever -- whatever you might feel about that, you know -- And I'm an immigrant myself, so I understand what that is, you know?

That is people across the world still vote with their feet, you know?

America is still this sort of shining, you know -- you know, signing thing on the hill.

I think it's -- I think it's important for us to live up to that.

As much as we all know American history, you know, it's so funny that the ideals on which it was founded were even greater than the people that found it.

You know what I mean?

In some ways, right?

And also the actions, you know, in the interim, right?

So, I still think that -- >> We're still moving toward a more perfect union.

>> 100%, and still really moving towards the ideals on which it was founded.

So, I think that's what's so hopeful about it, is that we're not there yet, you know, that there's so much more improvement that we can do to live up to who everyone else thinks we are, you know, and to what was written.

So I just -- You know, I think that's exciting.

You know, see, again, part of it is my own upbringing, you know, again, you know -- you know -- you know, moving around in Queens and trying to, you know -- you know, to improve our lives with our families or what I do, you know, professionally, which is step into, you know, what were considered not great companies and seeing if we could do better.

You know, I have a certain optimism with disorganization, with imperfection, you know?

So I think that when I see something that's not perfect, it's good.

It makes me feel happy that this can be improved upon.

Whereas some people I think -- I think it's just -- Maybe it's probably a personality flaw, you know?

I think there are people like, "Oh, I like things that are perfect," you know.

Well, what's the fun in that?

You know?

I think, you know, the fun is getting involved in something that's not as perfect and making it more so.

>> Improvement.

>> Yeah.

And so all of America is that.

There's a call out to, you know, all of us to participate in America, to make it the America that you want it to be.

>> Particularly for Generation Z and millennials, young people in America -- they have aspirations.

You know, banking is changing.

Finance is changing.

Access to capital is changing.

What would you say to America's youth about the opportunities in business or the opportunities overall to create wealth?

>> Sure.

So, what I would say is I know that I have a hopeful message for America that I think things are better and they generally are and they will get better.

And, you know, things were not perfect before, and they're going to get better.

There is one element that I think it's important to discuss, which is the fact that the current, you know -- If you think about the generations, the Boomers, the X and the Y and the Z, each generation, I think, does feel like there's a little less opportunity before it.

And I think that some of that is just because, you know, America had such advantages to the rest of the world, even as recently as 50, 60 years ago, which it just doesn't have as much anymore maybe 'cause the rest of the world has caught up.

And so I think that, you know -- I think, you know, obviously the government and leadership -- The generations themselves are going to have to understand that -- you know, whether it specifically relates to banking, but it's just general that the younger generations are going to feel less opportunity.

They're going to feel that less opportunity.

And we need to work to make sure that they, you know -- that they have as much opportunity as we can give them because of that sort of natural trend that it's harder for -- Especially, if think about it, if you take a quick step back, America has achieved so much, and, really, you know, if you think about it, our meanest citizens today live better than the kings did 150 years ago.

So, it's like -- And so it is just harder to keep pushing and pushing and pushing.

So, whereas, you know, people feel the rate of change, right?

So, if they feel like, "Wow, in my parents' generation, they did this much more than the way they started, but in ours, even though we're starting here, we're only going to get this much more."

It feels like you're taking a step back.

And I think we need to work hard to make sure that the younger generations feel included in the prosperity, you know?

>> Right.

Well, it seems to me that there's a connection, Soo Kim, for what you just said to an importance of pre-K through 12, making sure kids get the right opportunities educationally.

>> Absolutely.

Look, education is -- But, you know, it's interesting you say that.

I actually am a believer that education isn't, you know, one size fits all.

I think that, you know -- I'm not an education expert, but I do think that educational opportunities should meet students where they are.

Not everybody needs to get a 4-year liberal arts college degree.

I just think that that's sort of a weird, you know, like sort of obsession, a monomania in our society.

I think that we need to value vocational skills.

We need to value lots of other different tracks which can be -- can -- I think it's easier to get to if we start earlier and, again, meet people's interests and their proclivities sooner.

So, I think that's right.

I think education is the key, but I think it's education writ large, broadly, not just, you know, arithmetic and writing, but, really, you know, where do we bring people so that, you know, ultimately everybody wants to be productive members of society.

>> Soo Kim, thank you so much for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Dr. Chavis, the honor's mine.

Thank you again.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, please visit our website at TheChavisChronicles.com.

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Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity, and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and our communities.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute -- through API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.