Frederica Freyberg:
Season tickets for UW football went on sale this week. The Badgers are coming off consecutive losing seasons, and last fall, fans at Camp Randall were chanting to fire head coach Luke Fickell. The football program generates $60 million in profits each year to fund the entire athletic department, and a study last fall estimated a loss in fan support from a losing team could lead to more than $100 million of losses in state and local revenue. Earlier this week, “Here & Now” senior political reporter Zac Schultz sat down with UW Chancellor Jennifer Mnookin and Athletic Director Chris McIntosh to discuss the state of the football team and the ever-changing landscape of college athletics.

Zac Schultz:
Chancellor Mnookin, Athletic Director McIntosh, thanks for joining us, both of you.

Jennifer Mnookin:
Thanks for having us.

Chris McIntosh:
Great to be here.

Zac Schultz:
So, chancellor, let’s start with you. It’s been a few months since we heard the student section chanting to fire the coach. What have you seen since then that gives you faith that the decision to keep the coach was the right one?

Jennifer Mnookin:
Well, for one thing, we saw two pretty great victories after that moment against both Illinois and Washington. But more generally, I think that while last season’s football performance wasn’t what any of us would wish for, and it’s what — we have to do better than that, there’s no question about that. But I also think that what we’ve seen is that this team can pull together the resources, the discipline and the know how to help Badger football perform at the level that all of us rightly expect it to.

Zac Schultz:
Athletic Director McIntosh, we’ve seen headlines about the new recruits coming in through the transfer portal, but what have you seen from inside the building that gives you faith that this next team is going to perform a lot better?

Chris McIntosh:
Well, I mean, there’s a lot of excitement around the players that have committed to play at Wisconsin. It’s been fast and furious. For those Badger fans that have been following the news, it’s, it’s been a flurry of activity. You know, at this point in the season, I feel satisfied that we had a plan and we were able to execute it. And I think we did well in this environment of college athletics and its dependance on the portal. At the same time, while I’m excited, you know, we haven’t played a snap yet and we’re looking forward to getting those kids on campus and getting, getting to work. And they’ll get to work right away. And so it’s a, you know, the beginning of a new season for us. There’s optimism and excitement. And like the chancellor said, there’s high expectations. And we all understand that. We embrace that.

Zac Schultz:
Chancellor, there’s a lot of things that you have to deal with as the chancellor of the University of Wisconsin. National issues have never been hotter than before. How do you view the athletic department? Is it something that would be a lot easier if it was something that didn’t draw that much of your attention?

Jennifer Mnookin:
I think, first of all, that we’re really proud to be a school that has an amazing athletic tradition, and we’re really committed to our athletic future. We’re really proud of the student athlete experience, and we’re proud of the way that athletics is a great part of being a student at UW-Madison, whether or not you’re a student athlete. And also it’s a front porch to the university for the whole state of Wisconsin and well beyond. It’s an absolutely critical part of who we are. It’s not the only part of who we are. Some fans might think otherwise on that, but we do have a teaching and research mission too. But athletics is absolutely central to the identity of what it means to be Wisconsin and what it means to be a Badger.

Zac Schultz:
We saw Indiana win a national title in football, a program that for years was a doormat in the Big Ten. Does that change the expectation for what we should expect out of Wisconsin football?

Chris McIntosh:
I don’t think it changes the expectation. I think it demonstrates what’s possible, which is, which is much different today than it was not a long time ago. You know, it’s a — I mean, first of all, congratulations to Indiana and kudos to everything they’ve accomplished.

Jennifer Mnookin:
And go Big Ten.

Chris McIntosh:
Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, it wasn’t long ago in which the — which optimism around the program revolved around the high school kids that you were recruiting and maybe, just maybe, four years from now, we’ll see the fruits of that. And that’s just not the world we’re living in now. And so, you know, their turnaround in a two-year span, while unprecedented, creates optimism for us and excitement. And you know, they have their strategy and it’s obviously worked. We’re executing ours and we’re optimistic and excited about ours.

Zac Schultz:
For decades, the standard at Wisconsin was to compete for Big Ten titles and hopefully in the right scenario, win a national title. Is that still the standard?

Jennifer Mnookin:
Yes.

Zac Schultz:
Is that still the standard for you?

Chris McIntosh:
Yes.

Zac Schultz:
So in that sense, you gave the athletic director a contract extension last year and he’s the one calling the shots here. What is your confidence level in him, and will he be making the ultimate decisions on who runs the football program here?

Jennifer Mnookin:
Yes, I mean, Mac is, I think, a first-rate athletic director. We’ve, we’ve all — we’ve had some bumps. This is a wild ride in college athletics right now. More has changed over the last couple of years than really in decades. It’s still very much in flux. So, you know, it’s not altogether surprising that there will be and can be bumps in the road. What we need is somebody passionate, committed and strategic who also will be accountable for the program’s success. And I have every faith that Mac is going to execute on that successfully.

Zac Schultz:
There are fans out there that say, well, one of the reasons that you kept Coach Fickell is because you were the one that hired him and you — it would look awkward if you admitting a mistake to let him go. Is there any basis in that?

Chris McIntosh:
No, I mean, I, I understand and, and I appreciate the frustration of our fans sharing it, but I think, you know, my job was to try to determine what it will take to move us forward and to be successful. And when we looked at every aspect of our program, certainly with the leadership in our football program, Coach Fickell, and we weighed that against what we need to be successful in the future. We realized that we have a great coach here. We need to do more to invest in the program. Like the chancellor said, my goal is to position this program to be successful in the long run, and there’s no room for pride in that.

Zac Schultz:
Part of the landscape that’s changed is NIL, and the media money and the things that have changed drastically everywhere. Is Wisconsin, were they behind in terms of adapting to that new landscape? Were they playing by a different set of rules and other universities may have taken advantage of how NIL was supposed to be used?

Chris McIntosh:
Well, I can say this. You know, we welcomed the House settlement last July, and that was an opportunity for us to share revenues directly with student athletes. A way for us to maybe influence our own destiny in ways that we hadn’t been able to before. In the time since House, since that settlement was finalized and took effect, the world has been — has gone through even more change. And so we continue to adapt and we continue to iterate. I think we have along the way but there’s no doubt, like we announced last fall, there was a need to invest more in football. And that’s what we did. And that’s what we’ve been executing. And I think, you know, the progress we’ve shown and the success we’ve had in the portal, just this last week, is the first step of many that show the progress we’re making.

Jennifer Mnookin:
The one thing I would add to that is we welcome the House settlement. We welcome the chance to be able to support athletes directly. And I think we would be — we would both welcome, and I think, frankly, many schools would welcome a system that did have clearer guardrails and greater clarity about what was and wasn’t permitted. We are operating, all of us, in something of a Wild West right now. That’s not the structural environment that I think is really ideal for the future success of college athletics. That’s not a Wisconsin issue. That’s not a Big Ten issue. That’s not even an NCAA issue. That’s now a national dynamic. But I would love to see greater clarity and rules emerge that would ensure that we were all playing by the same rulebook about what was and wasn’t allowed.

Zac Schultz:
The Big Ten has been negotiating a deal with private equity brokers for a 10% stake in media rights. It’s been rumored to be up to $2.4 billion. Would you support that deal?

Jennifer Mnookin:
At this point, there’s no deal under active consideration. As has been publicly reported, we were in conversations with actually a pension fund, not exactly private equity, about a minority stake in a new enterprise. I think that the question of how we can work together as a conference to ask, are there revenue and growth opportunities where we can come together to add collective value? I think that’s a really important conversation for us to continue to have.

Zac Schultz:
As you travel and speak with alumni, do they bring up sports to you? Is that one of the —

Jennifer Mnookin:
Sure. Of course they do.

Zac Schultz:
And do they bring up the successes? I mean, Wisconsin football is that part of like one of some of the first and earliest conversations?

Jennifer Mnookin:
I’ve had lots of conversations about Wisconsin football. I’ve had lots of conversations about other aspects of Wisconsin athletics. It’s definitely something that alums talk to me about and sometimes make their feelings known in, in strong terms. And there’s also a lot of people who believe in this institution and what we’re trying to do athletically and more generally. That’s one of the incredible, really positive things about the Wisconsin culture and environment. Wherever you travel, there are Badgers everywhere, and there’s usually Badgers with, with, with, with opinions and strong feelings and ideas. But whether those — whether they’re happy with what you’re doing or whether they’re unhappy, that comes from a place of caring about the institution and its future and believing in it. And that’s, that’s special sauce. That’s something really wonderful.

Zac Schultz:
And bringing this full circle back to the football team and looking ahead to next year, there are people we talked about what is the standard, but there are some people that I’ve talked to that said, “Well, it’s got to be bowl or bust” in terms of the success for the coach next year. Is that a sentiment that’s fair for fans to have, that a winning record and a bowl season should be the minimum?

Jennifer Mnookin:
I have high expectations for our coaches and our athletic director, and I understand that our fan base does as well.

Zac Schultz:
Is bowl or bust, is that a fair sentiment?

Chris McIntosh:
I don’t think our expectations have changed, and I think our intent is to compete at the highest level. I think, like I said, we’ve put a plan in place that we feel optimistic will, will allow us to do that.

Zac Schultz:
Right now, usually the coaches from the fall get an extension on their contract, and it’s usually announced somewhere in February or March. Will there be a one-year extension on Coach Fickell’s contract?

Chris McIntosh:
I think that’s a conversation that we should take up in February.

Zac Schultz:
All right. Chancellor Mnookin, AD MacIntosh. Thanks for your time.

Jennifer Mnookin:
Thanks so much for having us and go Badgers.