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foreign [Music] thank you [Music] I'm Heather Marie montia and you're watching PBS folks thank you for joining us PBS books in collaboration with Kansas City PBS and k-e-r-a is pleased to host a conversation with best-selling authors Angeline bully and terang tan Tran who both depict their Heritage and their fiction in compelling ways PBS books is proud to partner with the Library of Congress to promote their 2023 National Book Festival let's take a moment to hear from the librarian of Congress Dr Carla Hayden I'm Carla Hayden Library of Congress and I want to give a thank you to PBS folks for supporting the national Book Festival hope you can join us in Washington and online for this year's Festival on Saturday August the 12th well the festival already happened it was free and open to the public it was open to everyone a huge crowds and it focused on everyone has a story since then the Library of Congress has worked to prepare all of that Festival content all of those conversations and they're now available to you they're representing the voices of 78 outstanding authors so go to loc.gov bookfest well since July 30th PBS books and PBS stations Across the Nation have been hosting a series of 10 virtual events with 11 authors this represents the last one but all of that content is still available for all of you so go to pbsbooks.org or the national Book Festival website let's take a moment to hear from our station partner I am Danita Malvern director of engagement at Kera in north Texas and I am delighted to introduce this evening's event with award-winning amazing authors Angeline bully entering tan Tran in celebration of the Library of Congress National books Festival I am proud that Kera is committed to promoting the stories of contemporary authors there is no question that books have the power to share people's stories just like the Library of Congress National book accessible theme everyone has a story for over two decades the Library of Congress National Book Festival has brought huge crowds of people to DC and we are delighted to support the Library of Congress important work we hope that you'll join us on our journey tonight and learn more about best-selling ya authors Angeline bully and train tan train who explore important themes of identity and diverse Heritage with young trailblazing protagonists their Works help young adults and not so young adults explore and reflect on these important topics we hope you'll enjoy tonight's conversation back to you Heather well thanks we're so delighted to be able to partner with your station it is always so wonderful to be able to have a local connection today's conversation features Angeline bully and trying Tron Tran to discuss their work and their involvement in the festival we'll be discussing bullet's latest work Warrior girl on earth which Chronicles Perry fire keeper Birch on a high-stakes Journey about the power of discovering your stolen history and Chang's latest book she is a haunting exploring Jade's adventure to her estranged father's family home in Vietnam let's meet the authors Angeline bully is an enrolled member of the Sioux Saint Marie Tribe of Chippewa Indians and she is a Storyteller who writes about her Ojibwe community in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan she is a former director of The Office of Indian education at the U.S Department of Education bully lives in Southwest Michigan but her home will always be on Sugar Island Michigan her debut novel fire Keeper's daughter received many awards including a prince award William C Morris award Walter Dean Myers award and an American Indian youth literature honor her newest release is what we'll be discussing today Warrior girl on earth which was featured in the 2023 National Book Festival welcome Angeline it's a pleasure to be here Miguel thank you so glad to have you well to also add to the conversation we are pleased to have Trang Tron Tran Trang Chon Tran is a Vietnamese American author who writes emotional speculative stories that highlight food belonging and the Vietnamese diaspora they're an alumni of the writing barns rainbow weekend and Tin House's young adult fiction Workshop when not writing they are busy try new food and watching zombie movies trans debut novel she is a haunting was featured at the 2023 National Book Festival welcome Trang hi so happy to be here thank you we are so happy to have you and to also have Angeline here as well so I want to just welcome you both and to get into the conversation um is it possible we're going to start a little bit by asking Angeline to share a little bit about her story and then we're going to talk more with Trang about your debut novel and we're so excited that you both are here so thank you so very much so Angeline can you briefly describe your book in um Warrior girls Unearthed you take us through the premise a little history just in your own words what is it my second book Warrior girl Unearthed is I pitched it as indigenous Lara Croft but instead of raiding tombs uh Perry fire keeper Birch is raiding museums and private collections to retrieve stolen ancestral remains and sacred items that do not belong in museums to bring back home to Sugar Island and being that she's 16 years old none of her heists go exactly as she planned and um and that's Warrior girl Unearthed so how is Warrior girl on earth connected with your best-selling book fire Keeper's daughter is it it is um so the twins in my first book fire Keeper's daughter it's 10 years later and the twins are now 16 and it's the feisty twin Perry who is the narrator for the story and so uh they are nieces to Donna spontane the main character and fire Keeper's daughter and we get to see some familiar faces from my debut novel and I just love to I think of my community as you know all of these connected extended families and I like that approach with my writing too so I mention a character in my debut and you know 10 years later they are the protagonist of the second book I love it and I and I love that connection and I think it I think your fans are really excited too about it so who is the warrior girl and can you discuss Native American Graves protection and re-patriation act the importance of of that act of returning cultural items to indigenous tribes sure so Congress passed and it was signed into law in 1990 the Native American Graves protection and repatriation act and what that says is that all museums and institutions that receive any Public Funding that they are to inventory their collection of native remains and objects items relics artifacts and there to provide these inventories to tribes and then tribes and native Hawaiian organizations can request to repatriate bring home those remains and items that they have connection to it was passed in 1990 but there are still more than half of our ancestors that are still held in museums and um you know tribes really have to go through a lot to uh prove the connection and be able to take possession and um return these ancestors back to the Earth and Warrior girl is that a real is that yes yes she's based on an actual ancestor that uh friends of mine who do repatriation work had met her so she's an ancestor her ancestral remains um she was a teen uh a teen female and she was buried with her uh Flint blade that was significant size that had been lashed to a deer antler most likely and she had um previous wounds that had healed they can tell from the bone knitting that she had been in fights before and they could tell which injury she died from and which injury she recovered from and um since she was buried with her knife they knew that that was special and that she was a protector of her community and so that's the you know Warrior girl is an actual ancestor breathtaking on so many levels for people who haven't yet heard that story um the novel tackles issues also of missing and murdered indigenous women which is something we've discussed in my show over the last few years could you share why addressing this issue why you chose to address this issue in your book with a young adult audience because the ownership of indigenous bodies past and present is a continuous issue and um you know uh universities and museums and institutions they want the bones of our ancestors and are very reluctant to return them and our indigenous women go missing and face the highest risks of violence and there is not enough done to find them and bring them home and so I really did see that connection between the value of indigenous bodies past and present and draw a connection to that oh thank you so we're going to switch gears transition a little bit for a few moments and talk to Trang trying can you Briefly summarize your debut novel yeah so um she is a haunting is a why a Agape Cora novel um and it's about 17 year old Jade win who is angry and closeted and she is forced to go back and visit her strange father in Vietnam and discovers that the French Colonial House that he's renovating has Sinister plans for her and her family um this book is a lot about family it's a family but it's a family story but it's also a coming-of-age story that really explores what it means to belong in a place so the the Vietnamese diaspora it's an important element in your storytelling and I was hoping you could elaborate on how your personal experiences really influence and shape the characters in your book yeah so I have a very big family my mom is the oldest of 11 and um my mom came to the U.S in 1987 and a lot of her family members came too and um I guess growing up there was just so many stories about like what it's like to live in Vietnam and how life is different here but as you know time goes on you realize that like my mom has spent more time in the US than she has in Vietnam actually um and there's you know I was born in the U.S and there's a sense of being in between places right so I was born here but when other people look at me they don't necessarily think that I belong here um and I'm Vietnamese but if I go back to Vietnam I really stick out because I don't speak Vietnamese well for example so there's this really weird um in between space that a lot of kids in the diaspora are living and I felt like um it was something interesting to explore in a book you know like what if how does it feel to not belong somewhere or like to desperately want to belong somewhere and feel like everyone is telling you no and that's sort of central to Jade's um emotional Journey because you know she wants to belong somewhere she wants to live her life but she's afraid of um sort of experiencing that rejection so talk to me about this house right it's a it's a family house French Colonial um can you talk a little bit about is there a metaphor is this from personal experience do you have a house that scares you uh talk to me about this house yeah so I don't have a personal health inspiration but I was inspired by the actual French Colonial houses that are in dialect um so dialect is in the central Highlands of Vietnam the weather so it's like in the mountains so the weather is very temperate compared to the rest of the country which is very humid and very hot in in the early 20th century um you know French French colonizers um wanted a vacation home and so I think it was in 1907 they settled in dialect because the weather is so nice there um so they're not even now there's all these abandoned French colonial homes um in the mountains that you know no one lives in and so I drew a lot of inspiration from these buildings that you know must have experienced and seen so much and are still standing um and there's a lot of French um French architecture in Vietnam and so I wanted to explore that the beauty that people see in these buildings but also sort of the underlying horrors of like what happened there I know there's been some comparison with your book um to Mexican Gothic um how do you feel about this comparison um and in what ways do you think your book offers a unique and distinct perspective within the genre so Mexican catholic's incredible um so I'm very pleased that people see the connection right but I think it also speaks to um how colonization happened across many different places that are very far away from each other who own the surface don't have any similarities but may have the resources and the things that other people wanted to take um and so I I I'm happy that these stories especially for Gothic horror which explores a lot of you know Pat like how the past haunts the present I'm happy that there are so many different voices many diverse voices kind of exploring um sort of the intersection between you know uh this horrible thing that happened with with actual history um and really being able to explore um sort of all the Terrible terrible things that happened and I think particularly with she as a haunting um it is a coming-of-age story so I feel like it offers that element that element that's a little bit different from Mexican Gothic in that it is about a 17 year old girl it is about her belonging in a space and explores a lot about her queer identity she's bisexual but she's closeted and ex and it looks into you and it it's also a present day novel um so it's it's not in the past it's present day so um you can really see how the past in Jade's life is continuing to influence her and her family well now I'd like to have you and Angeline in because what's really amazing you both have gotten lots of kudos for both of your books um and I wanted to talk a little bit to Angeline about you know your your you've gotten Kudos Lots about lots of things but your book recently um many have said that your portrayal of Ojibwe culture in the novel has been it's been commended for its authenticity its depth how did you ensure that you presented Ojibwe language history and practices in a way that both educates the reader and keeps the story accessible and engaging I thought about former students of mine I've always worked in Indian education and so you know I thought about you know former students wanting to make sure the information was accessible but really what the cultural information I you know have incredible cousins and I always would ask myself you know should I include this um what would my cousin say or you know talking to my cousin spot how do you pronounce this word or that word and I had a mantra while I was writing both of my books and it was that I write to to preserve my culture and I edit to protect it and so I was very mindful of indigenous knowledge and including only that which served the story and uh that's what I would include I purposely left out uh actual ceremony and things that people outside of my community do not have access or purpose too thank you Trang you also have gotten lots of praise and specifically representation of Jade's sexuality in your book has received a lot of Praise particularly in the way that Jade's anxieties and fears surrounding her identity are handled could you discuss your approach to Jade's to writing about Jade's sexual identity and the importance of this representation for you yeah um so with Jade's with Jade sexuality I really wanted to portray something that felt honest and felt true especially for someone who is as young as Jade to feel like she's not enough and especially for bisexual folks to feel like they're not they're not queer enough to be in the community and yet not straight enough to be among um you know heterosexual couples for example um so I really wanted to portray someone who felt like they were in this between again that between space feeling like neither side was really accepting towards them and having her work through those anxieties of like why does she have why does she have to weigh her validity against what other people are saying um she has always been enough and I felt like that's something that young readers often need to need to hear and even older readers because um there's not a there's not a Time by which you have to come out you know there's not a timeline the only timeline is yours and whenever you are ready to kind of take those steps and or even if you never take those steps um due to the circumstances in your life you are enough of whatever you are I think that's really beautiful because I think we are enough of who of whatever we are and that self-discovery of who we are both of your books in each of their own ways they're exploring that right um both of your books address ancestral heritage self-discovery and they explore themes of trauma uh generational divides unspoken pain how did you both go go about weaving these themes into a narrative and then how did you also pull and you've started to talk about the personal aspects but how did you pull your own personal aspects into that as well if we could start with Angeline I hmm could I have a little more time to uh do you trying um I I think it's just um at least for she is a haunting because I it is very focused on a very specific Vietnamese family um and I wanted to make these characters feel very real like someone that you can know and um from my you know from being in my community there's so many different types of people so many different types of people who experience different things in the diaspora and feel different things and so I wanted that variety to be on the page for me and so often you see you know Jade and her father who are you know who feel like they're opposites and who have a very difficult relationship and yet um it comes out that they maybe want the same thing but they're going about very different ways um to get it and so being able to deeply explore something that is also really meaningful to me you know because um one of The Inspirations for the book is drawing from you know the things that I don't know about my family and sort of that drive for me to understand um you know the history that we have in Vietnam in the history that we're building here and you know having to learn to be okay that there are some answers that you might never have so I really wanted to tell a story about one specific family and so I very stay very focused and try to make them as real as possible let me just go down that road a little bit more did you go to Vietnam to do research did you I mean you refer to specific houses in the mountain like how did you did you visit did you go on family excursions or did you go independently could you talk a little bit about that process so I actually wrote the book during the pandemic so there was no traveling involved so there was a lot of you know research going on online and also having conversations with my mom about you know what what it's like to visit Vietnam and What that particular region in dialect is like because she's been there and also speaking to other family members about you know what their perspective was on um you know different relationships during this time period things that they may know great thank you for sharing okay Angeline back in the hot seat um so just if you could share a little bit about themes of trauma generational divides unspoken pain and how ancestral heritage and self-discovery have been written and woven into your novel sure so I would say that I am probably more like Perry's Twin Sister Pauline um with very high functioning anxiety and um you know some self-soothing behaviors uh I wrote about you know trichotillomania which is like a hair pulling it's like a comfort thing um I I wanted to my books are all about representation and so whereas I more closely aligned with Donis the protagonist in my first book being a very light-skinned uh Ojibwe girl with a native dad and a non-native mom I really wanted to represent uh you know cousins of mine who are uh Ojibwe and black and that's another you know big uh you know topic an issue about identity for those who are Ojibwe and also black and what that connection is with the black community and um so I definitely had so much help in um you know writing from that perspective as well and and dealing with generational trauma but whenever I do so I always make a note to include generational Joy the memories and um wonderful things that we also uh got from those Generations before us because our ancestors gave us more than pain and Trauma um and and I always want to make sure that my writing reflects the joyful things that we are so fortunate to have I think that's a great point and and it's easy to sometimes talk about the trauma but the joy is very much I think a critical part of your storytelling so thank you for for integrating that into the conversation both of your stories and trying has been talking a lot about coming of age right they I when I was reading them both I thought these girls are the same age it would almost be fun to have them meet um because they're both talking about college right like they both money is an issue in both of their Realms as well which is also was interesting to me you know you both write for what a young well it's why a young adult but it's interesting because this is a moment in history where everyone's reading young adults and maybe it's because people my age we want to be young at heart still um but but it's a why a book so could you talk a little bit about the why you made that choice to make it for an intended audience and also the age of your protagonist while you chose that age why that was critical to your story well for me you know Perry is 16 and I think that's such a critical age it's um you know uh claiming your identity and thinking about the uh larger world and so for Perry it's um you know she is known as kind of the slacker and the twin that doesn't worry or getting you know anxiety about anything and she does care very deeply about things um and repatriation is one of those issues that once she becomes aware of it she very much becomes a warrior that wants to do right and wants to make sure that these ancestors get back home uh she doesn't necessarily think about the consequences of how she goes about making that happen um and and so I love writing young adult because one I think uh young adult literature I believe we get to our inciting incidents uh quicker I think that young adult literature pivots quicker and um addresses social issues far quicker than adult literature and I also believe there's a uh an implied respect and relationship with the reader to First Do no harm knowing that this might be the first time a reader is reading about um sexual assault or [Music] um uh lateral violence in the black and Ojibwe communities or you know different issues and so I really love writing for young adult because I feel like that's where the exciting things are happening and it's also where we have such respect and care for our readers thank you Trang um yeah I definitely agree with that I also want to add that for me um so Jade is 17 in the book and I feel like 17 is such an intense age um it's when you're young you're a teenager you feel everything so intensely and I feel like that's really fun to write about right someone who is on the verge of becoming an adult like Jade who's 17 who's about to head off into the world and she thinks that everything is just going to magically resolve itself when she gets to college because there's just a button that she's going to turn on and she's going to be an adult but you have to learn that you never really feel like an adult and so she's experiencing um sort of she's experiencing that disconnect and realizing that um she has to work on her own journey and realizing what she wants rather than thinking that time is just going to resolve it and specifically um for Jade and why I wanted this Haunted House story to be young adult I also wanted to be fun um I didn't have many or any books with Vietnamese protagonist when I was growing up and so I really wanted to have a book that had a Vietnamese American Girl on it just trying to live her best life and discovering that this house does not want her to live her best life well thank you for that as well for those people just joining us I'm Heather Marie montia and you are watching PBS books this is our last virtual conversation with the Library of Congress National Book Festival we are here speaking with Angeline boli and with Trang Chon Tran and we're discussing their books that are both highly acclaimed and they are both young adults and we're back in the conversation okay ladies so you have both discussed how your first hand experience and cultural background they really bring this unique perspective to your storytelling and as you know the theme of this year for the national Book Festival was everyone has a story your Works explore culture tradition and values and you both have done a really wonderful job in making those accessible was this always your goal as a writer is that what you set out to do or or at what moment in your Evolution as a writer um did it occur well for me I had a full career in you know Native American education at the tribal state and federal levels and so my writing career was you know kind of a a second act or third act for me uh I was not published until I was 56 and so um you know for me it was I had never read a story with a native protagonist until I was maybe a senior in high school and the representation that I had seen through the years it did not reflect my reality and I worked with so many students and then my own children and relatives that I knew I wanted to tell stories where we saw ourselves our aunties our grandparents um and I wanted to share and tell these stories from my community and I you know James Joyce wrote in the particular we find the universal and I'm really proud that I wrote a story that was you know these stories that are very specific to my culture and my community but yet resonate with so many people um beyond that and and I think that's that's how we create a greater understanding and um hopefully make things better for the next generation thank you um I've always wanted to be a writer but of course I pursued a different career for stability and because my mother told me to um but it was you know during the pandemic was when I was like I I have to chase this dream that I've always wanted um and that was when I quit my job and gave myself a year to do it um but what was important to me was that was also when I started seeing a lot of diverse books particularly in y a and realizing that wow I can write characters that have names similar to mine who look similar to me who have experience similar to me um and that's how she's a haunting was that kind of came out as you know really looking into the fears that this one Vietnamese American teenager would have about belonging in a space and so I'm so happy to be able to be writing for teens now and um just providing a choice of book I I don't want to be the only representation just a choice of horror book for them to pick up that's like wow this is great that is great um well you both were invited this year to the Library of Congress National Book Festival what did it mean to you for me I've attended the national Book Festival as as you know in the audience I remember getting to hear uh Roxanne gay speak and just being in such awe I lived and worked in the DC area and so that was like an annual thing for me was like connecting and seeing these uh writers that had so much to say that resonated with me and so for me to have been invited and be a part of it it is beyond any dream that I had when I thought about writing the story and reaching people so oh just an honor trying it was an honor for me as well it's my it was my first time attending and when I first started writing this book I didn't have that many expectations about where it was going to go whether it was even going to be published um and so to be invited and to be able to speak to so many readers is such an honor and being able to tell my mom that you know I went to the space that our family's never been before was just incredible yeah I mean I will say the first time I got to go was 2019 and it just for me was it was so amazing I was like I got to see my favorite authors I got to find new favorite authors um and what excites me now too and as we speak is that now all of that content is available for people to be able to go through and curate their own experience all of the content from the festivals available and that's also so wonderful because I think when I think of the Library of Congress it is the library for everyone in the nation and so for people to be able to take advantage of this special gift to the nation to be able to fall in love with authors across the great nation um it's it's exciting so um all right so some other fun questions for you guys what and I think I know some of them but um what are your favorite genres of for reading for your own pleasure and do you have favorite influences oh I love reading psychological thrillers um uh Gillian Flynn Megan Abbott uh Courtney Summers Melissa Albert um yeah you know there's just some incredible authors that tell these tales that um keep me guessing and so yeah psychological thrillers are where I'm at awesome what about you trying I read a lot of horror and also Thriller but I really love contemporary stories as well great what about favorite libraries one of the things we always see is a correlation obviously we all love the Library of Congress but you know we find that authors really have a special library that and even a special librarian they sometimes quote that that sparked that love of reading which is often the basis for writing for me it's this little tiny library in Cedarville Michigan and um and you know it's in the Latino islands area and it's got such I think Outreach and connection with the community and um there's just something about it when you walk in you it just feels unlike any other Library I've been in it's it feels so personal and welcoming and you know when you walk in you're not surprised to see a fire in the fireplace and and people sitting you know in comfortable chairs talking about books uh and children uh sitting around and being read a story uh it's just one of those places that seems like the Keystone or Touchstone for a community I actually have two libraries so the first one is the South Philadelphia library I have very fond memories of my mom taking me and my cousins to the South Philadelphia library because they had like a I think a very small collection of books in the Vietnamese language and my mom loves to read so I've just great memories visiting there and the second library is Temple University it's where I went to college and I would just check out all the Stephen King books to read during college well um as as I've already shared with you off camera I'm I am always afraid of horror horror movies or books so but I can live vicariously through you um upcoming projects can you guys share any books you're working on like I know it's probably been a bit of a whirlwind with all of the Acclaim you've received for these these novels but could you share what's upcoming for you both for me it's um working on my third book I have a great idea and no announcement has been made yet but perhaps one is forthcoming and then I'm also um uh involved with the Netflix series I sold the film rights for fire Keeper's daughter my debut uh to the Obamas and their company Higher Ground Productions everything's on pause with the writer strike which I fully support um and once we uh pay writers a living wage and meet their uh reasonable demands I am sure that FireKeeper's daughter will continue and move into production well that sounds exciting um trying um I'm working on my second ya book and it's centering another Vietnamese American family I'm also working on an adult horror book that I'm really excited to dig into well this has been so great getting to spend this time with both of you and learning about your work and your creativity and really your craft and and helping to further provide representation for readers and and for people to see themselves their reflection and to learn more about other cultures so I really I want to thank you for your your work and for coming on PBS books today and your support of the national Book Festival thank you oh thank you thank you so much I was honored to read an advanced reader copy and I just to have colonization be a villain in the story and that's very close to my heart and um I am so pleased at the success that your debut has had thank you so much well we need to close the program but I'm so glad that we were able to Showcase these two amazing writers we'd like to thank our library Partners across the country as well as numerous PBS stations throughout our nation but most importantly we'd like to thank all of you for joining us just a reminder all of the Library of Congress National Book Festival content is now available you can go to loc.gov bookfest to explore all the fabulous content including interviews that feature today's amazing guest Angel line bully and Trang Chon Tran I hope you'll be able to delve more into the content well until next time I'm Heather Marie montia and happy reading [Music] [Applause] thank you [Music] [Applause] [Music] foreign [Applause]