Ask This Old House

Kevin

On "Ask This Old House," our experts travel across the country to answer questions about your house. Today, Mark takes a trip to Dallas to help a homeowner save their crumbling sandstone steps.

Mark

Don't be afraid to give it a little muscle.

Kevin

Then... Are you considering going solar? We'll tell you how to choose a solar plan and what scams you should be on the lookout for. Plus, Nathan installs an awning over a back door. On "Ask This Old House."

Mark

I've made my way down to Dallas, Texas, a world-class city and the largest metro area in the Lone Star State. Now, when most people think about Texas, they think of cowboys, cattle drives, and barbecue. But for a mason like me, I think of the sandstone. I love sandstone for its rustic look and its earthy color palette. It can be used for walls, fireplaces, or floors, and can be used in inside spaces or outside spaces. Sandstone is not only affordable, but it's durable enough to put up with this Texas heat. It's a great choice for homeowners.

Elexa

Hi, Mark. Welcome to Dallas. Thank you for coming.

Mark

Alright, well, thanks for having me, Elexa. I can see the beautiful Texan sandstone that we've been talking about. It looks great.

Elexa

Thank you. We love the look of it, but as we've been working on the house, we've noticed we think it may have been flipped and there are some things that aren't quite right and we're so glad you're here

to help us. Mark

Yeah. Well, I hate to say it, but it does look like a flip job, only because there are a couple things that tell me it's probably true. First off, you can see that this is just a veneer, but they tried to apply it to concrete, which is a cold bond, so you're never really going to get a great bond, and that's the result.

Elexa

We also noticed that some of the parts of the stairs have come off and we're worried about people walking on them.

Mark

Right. You can see the edge of that stone. Every time people enter, they want to hit that with their foot and that kind of projects that back end up and down and all that, so that's probably why that happened,

but we can fix that. Elexa

Let's do it.

Mark

First thing we want to do is to see what's loose and what isn't. This one here is nice and tight, so we're going to leave that. This one here is kind of embedded into the pattern. I can tell it's locked in, so we'll leave that. Same with this guy over here. But this one, if you look at that crack underneath, if I wiggle that a little bit, I know this is loose, so this one definitely has to go, but watch out because you can see how it rides into the stone that sits on the hip. So, if we pry this up, we're going to do some damage elsewhere. So, we just want to be careful. You have a hammer and chisel when you're ready. What I'm going to do is I'm going to take this back joint out right now and, hopefully, loosen the stone up enough for us to just peel it back. You can see this mortar's a little soft, which is great for us. Alright. So this joint came out pretty nicely.

Grunting

Mark

And, actually, if you don't mind taking that out. That's it. Great. Grab that little piece back there. So you can see the stone kind of broke itself, which is fine. I want to take the rest of this joint out. Because we're going to need the room. We need a certain amount of inches from the deck to the top of the step, so, if we did not take the rest of this mortar out, the stone that we do put back in is going to be high. We can't have that. I'm actually hearing some good sounds. You can see the mortar joint breaking up right there. So, at this point, what I want to do is try to get under everything. I don't want to pry because we're going to knock other stone around. If you don't mind, you can start down there

as I pull the stuff out. Elexa

Yeah.

Mark

Don't be afraid to give it a little muscle.

Elexa

Oh!

Mark

Want to clean this stuff out from behind the stones as much as possible. This one's got a little bit too much of a wiggle for me, so I pulled it.

Same with this guy. Elexa

Ooh!

Mark

That's okay. They'll go right back into place. Gives us the opportunity to take anything loose off. We're going to take this brush and I'm going to remove all the heavy dust. Now, I want to take in some water. We don't want the existing material to take the water out of our new material, so that's why we want to wet it down, just like this. The next important step is we're going to add a little bit of additive to our step. This, for intent and purpose, is just glue. You can do it dry or wet. We want to make sure we take a brush, spread it properly into all the nooks and crannies. Now, when this mortar hits this, it has something to stick to. This additive can also be put into the mix, but I like to apply it right to the substrate of what we're doing. Alright, Elexa, now, the fun part -- we're going to put the stones back in. Just want to give you a few pointers before you get going. I'm going to take my margin trowel. I'm going to use the backside. That gives me the best ability to fill all those nooks and crannies. So, just like that, push it in. Now, I'm going to take the front part and I'm going to do the same with this stone. I want to back butter my stone, so I turn it to the backside. I'm going to leave it really high in the back. Why? Because I'm going to press it into place. Don't forget -- my height is already given to me by the top of this step, so all I have to do is match that. Now, I know I have a good bond. I want to stay with the same face on the right and the same face on the left. So, now, what you can do is take that margin trowel and fill in all of that. Doing a good job. Yeah. There you go. Beautiful. Look at that, using the backside of the travel like a pro. I love it. That's my bed joint. This is what a mason will call furrow and we're going to create highs and lows. So, when we press our stone into the bed joint, these high spots will wiggle into the low spots. And again, just creating a better bond. Press it into place. If that mortar works its way out, that's good with us because, now, that's how we know it's full. Now, the trick here is not to use too much mortar. Just don't forget, we have height restrictions -- we have to match the back stone. So, we just want to get it into where it was. As we wiggle, we're filling nooks and crannies that we can't see. I'm knocking it down because there's my height. This is the replacement stone. This helps get rid of the saw mark. Rough it up and it'll kind of mimic the existing stone. Once the weather takes over, it'll fit in very nicely. I'm going to do my furrow. I want to wiggle in, so the bottom gets a full joint as well. The height is already given to us. I'm not going to be afraid to use my trowel. We want to make sure all these joints are packed. This is the last opportunity we have to make them full. There. You want to make sure you get mortar under this stone. It's the edge. That's where everybody's foot's going to hit first. The stronger, the better. Always trying to mimic existing work and that's why we're going to take our paintbrush.

Elexa

It kind of picks up the graininess that's on the rest of them.

Mark

So, all the aggregate that is in the sand will come through with this brush. And it's okay if I mess up the edges right now because I am going to come back with a sponge to clean off the stones. Now, we're just going to sponge it off. We want to make sure those edges are clean. If they overflow, they look sloppy. Alright, we'll let that dry and we'll hit it one more time with the sponge and then we'll let it set up. For the hips, we're going to do the exact same process.

Elexa

It looks wonderful. Thank you for coming to Dallas.

It's great having you. Mark

Alright. I love the city and thanks very much.

Thank you. Mark

Alright.

Bye-bye. Elexa

Bye!

Kevin

Hey,

Ross. Ross

Hey, Kev.

Kevin

Any good questions from the mailbag fall in your lap?

Ross

I was just reading an email from Brent in North Carolina. He's looking to install solar on his roof and he's getting bombarded with ads and he has no idea where to start.

Kevin

Him and me

Laughs

Kevin

and everyone else, it seems. My landscaper's trying to sell me solar.

Ross

Door-to-door in my neighborhood. They're coming, knocking on the door. "Can we install solar on your roof?" It's like, "What is going on?"

Kevin

So what has changed?

Ross

I mean, we're at a really interesting point where we have the cost of solar that has come down to the lowest point ever for an installation.

Okay. Ross

On top of that, we have electric rates from utility companies that are the highest that they've ever been.

Okay. Ross

And on top of that, we have financial incentives at the federal, state, and even local level, that's incentivizing solar to be installed.

Kevin

So, it's cheaper to install solar

and people are rushing to it. Ross

That's right. That's right. That's right. So, great for the consumer to get more solar on more roofs across America, but there's also companies that are getting involved, that might not be properly trained and, you know, in it for the right reasons.

Kevin

So, explain that to me. It's just a gold rush because people see a lot of business, or...?

Ross

A lot of times, they're doing it for financial reasons -- to obtain federal tax credits and state renewable energy credits, et cetera.

Kevin

So, generally speaking, if I pay for solar, I'm eligible for a credit on the cost

of the solar installation. Ross

That's right.

Kevin

And then there's some sort of ongoing credit, the more it gets used over years?

Ross

Yeah. Renewable energy credit.

Kevin

A second type of credit, right?

That's right. Kevin

So, those come to me, if I buy it. But you're telling me that someone could sell it to me in a different way, where the company that's selling it gets those credits?

Ross

That's right. Yeah. So, there's four different ways to finance a solar system. So, the first one is cash, right? As a homeowner, you can buy the system outright in cash, right?

Kevin

I love cash.

Laughs

Ross

It's the best from a financial obligation because you're going to get all of those tax credits, you're going to get all those rebates, all the renewable energy credits that we talked about.

Kevin

And all of the lower costs of the electricity.

Everything goes to you. Ross

Everything goes to you.

But you pay up-front. Ross

But you pay up-front for it, right? The second best option is a solar loan, which means that the asset is still yours, but you're getting financing for it from a third party.

Kevin

So it's kind of like a home equity loan, where I use it to renovate a kitchen. I own the kitchen. I just have to pay the loan back.

That's right. Kevin

So, I still get all of those credits and financial benefits, all to me?

Ross

You get all the credits. Yep, it's yours, right? It's your asset.

Okay. Ross

It's a great way to go. The third option is a solar lease. And, with that option, and similar to a power purchase agreement, which is the fourth option, they're both very similar in that you are basically allowing a third party to come onto your roof to install solar and they're going to give you, basically, a reduction in your electric bill. In return, you have to pay a lease payment.

Kevin

Now, you've told us about this before and when they do that, okay, they are getting all of the benefits...

That's right. Kevin

...the tax incentives, and those renewable energy credits that go to them?

That's right. Kevin

And I just get a guaranteed lower price.

Ross

You're paying a lower rate for electricity.

Kevin

So, I give up some of the total benefits, but I don't have to come out-of-pocket with a loan or cash to buy the thing.

That's right. Kevin

And you're saying that, because that situation exists, there are companies who are really just kind of finance companies who are getting into it, they're not really installation companies?

Ross

That's right. Yeah. I mean, there are banks, investment banks that are getting involved into the mix and they are seeing this as a way to generate revenue, right? Because they get renewable energy credits, they're getting the tax credits, they're getting all that. If they can sell you the solar system and get all of those tax credits and all those rebates, then they pawn that system off onto your roof, there's no incentive for them to come back and service it. If they have the option to go install a new solar system or go service your failed panel on your roof, of course, they're going to, most cases,

they're going to pick Kevin

New money...

New money. Kevin

...no money.

Ross

No money, exactly.

Kevin

So, incentives always sort of pervert the system, one way or the other. You know, it's good, right? It gets people to think about it, but I can see why there's a system to be gamed

That's right. Kevin

in that situation.

Ross

And the other thing to keep in mind is that, you know, with these are contracts that you have to be careful about the fine print in the terms of that contract. For example, what happens at the end of the lease or the power purchase agreement. So, in options 1 and 2, when you own the asset outright, there is not.

Kevin

There's no end. I just own it.

Ross

You own it. But in 3 and 4, with a lease and with a power purchase agreement, in those two options, you really have to be careful about it because, at the end of that, or if you try to sell your house, what actually happens?

Right. Ross

So, you got to read the fine print

Okay. Ross

in that right there.

Kevin

Alright. So, understanding that that's kind of why everyone's getting into it -- because it's a good time to do it, but also,

these companies... Ross

Mm-hmm.

Kevin

...how do I decide whether I should get in right now and then how do I decide what company I should pick?

Ross

Right. So, if you have a house that's got a lot of shade, right? So, in a rural setting, tall, tall trees, the roof doesn't get any sun, not a good fit, right? If you have an old roof, right, if your roof age is extremely old, let's say 20, 25 years old, I would recommend replacing the roof, first, before you install solar.

Kevin

Don't put a brand-new system on a roof that's going to have to be replaced

in the near future. Ross

That's right.

That's right. Kevin

So, old roof, out.

Ross

That's right. There is a recent tax bill that has been passed, right, through legislation recently, that allows homeowners to obtain the tax credit for a new solar installation on an old roof. So, the replacement of the roof and solar installation is all brought into that federal tax credit.

Kevin

So, the extra cost of replacing the roof is something that you maybe get a credit for?

That's right. Kevin

So, in that situation, an old roof might say, "This is the time to do it"?

Exactly. Exactly. Kevin

Okay. I gotcha.

Ross

If you're going to be leaving your house anytime in the near term, I wouldn't recommend going with solar, right?

Kevin

And that's because you always talk about payback periods. You know, you have to put the money down to buy. The payback period for these things is generally what, now?

Ross

So, five to eight years is the typical payback.

Kevin

Okay. So, if you're leaving the house --

Ross

If you're not going be there for five years,

it doesn't make sense. Kevin

Benefit's going to go to the person you sell the house to.

Ross

So, I mean, a perfect installation for solar would be someone that has a really, you know, new roof, right? Less than ten years old. They've got really good solar exposure. They care about reducing their electric bill. They care about the environment. If they have got the upfront capital to be able to pay for it up-front or through a solar loan, it's a slam dunk.

Kevin

And let's say our friend Brent here from North Carolina is in that situation. How does he go about finding the right person to install it?

Ross

Yeah. So always buyer beware with any home improvement project, right? So, first thing I always recommend is reach out to friends and family, people in the community that have gone through a solar installation. Who did they use, right? And understand where is that company from? Are they locally owned, right? Or are they owned by a company 3,000 miles away, a conglomerate? Have they been doing it for two years or ten years, right?

Kevin

Word of mouth still works. And do they have to be reputable, in terms of like a third-party rating, or anything like that?

Ross

Yeah, one of the most important certifications I'm looking for is NABCEP,

which is the -- Kevin

NABCEP?

Ross

NABCEP, the North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners.

Kevin

Ooh!

Ross

Yeah, it's a mouthful. But with that, they have nationwide PV trainings for solar installations.

Kevin

So, the guys know what they're doing up on the roof.

Ross

Right, so you know what they're doing.

Kevin

And if they don't have that certification -- Like should everyone have it across the board?

Ross

It would be great if everyone had that, but, you know, if they don't, it doesn't mean they're not a good installer, you just have to do more research and dig a little bit deeper.

Dig a little deeper. Good. Ross

Yeah.

Kevin

Alright. Well, I think, with all that information, our fellow Brent here has probably got a good lay of the land.

Ross

Great question,

yeah. Kevin

Yeah, great question. I think he's going to be very grateful for the information.

Alrighty. Kevin

Thank you, Ross.

Katie

Hey,

Nathan. Nathan

Hi, Katie. Nice to meet you.

Katie

Yeah,

nice to meet you. Nathan

So, I got your email. It sounds like you've been working on a lot of projects here, but you have a couple more in mind?

Katie

Yeah, yeah. We just did our kitchen,

right behind this door. Nathan

Yeah.

Katie

We got a new back door coming in. We'll have a new light. Eventually,

do a new porch. Nathan

Yeah. But you wrote me about an awning, right?

Katie

Yes. So, this is kind of our main entry and, as we're like fumbling to get in, we get rained on, snowed on, and it's just kind of a mess going right into our brand-new kitchen.

Nathan

So,

perfect spot for an awning. Katie

Yeah.

Nathan

Well, I have one that I picked out. It's really easy to install. You want to take a look?

Yeah. Let's check it out. Nathan

Okay. Alright, here's the awning that I picked up. As you can see, it's already complete. We don't have to do anything. We don't have to put it together.

Looks great. Nice and modern. Nathan

You like it?

Katie

Will go good with the kitchen.

Nathan

So, all we have to do is bolt it up. And this manufacturer actually sends a template to take a lot of the guesswork out. But, first off, we have to address that you have vinyl siding on the home, which is not a flat surface, and we need to address that issue. If we just bolted right to the house, you know, you're going to have all these gaps here and we're also going to compress that vinyl, which we don't want to do. They sell these lighting blocks that have that Double 4 profile cut out the rear and that creates a nice flat surface for us to mount to, but this is not big enough or long enough. So, what I'm going to do is actually create my own block. I took this 5/4 PVC and I cut this vinyl profile out the back of it. That's nice and flat and we can mount the awning directly to this. One thing I'd like to do before we get started is place the awning on top of the template because this is set up for two different awnings.

Alright. Nathan

Line that up. So, what I'm going to do is cut the top of this away, that we're not going to use. Alright, nice. Now, we can trace out the profile on the sides. What I have is two scrap pieces of Double 4 vinyl. And what I want to do is have the top of the awning land under the start of the course right there.

Mm-hmm. Nathan

So I click the two pieces together and all I'm going to do is trace out the profile.

Katie

Mm-hmm.

Nathan

Down the side. And then take that away. You can see that line that we left behind. All we got to do is remove that material with the band saw. Now, we can clean up the pieces with a chisel and a sander.

Katie

What are you looking for?

Nathan

I'm just smoothing everything out. There's a lot of forgiveness in vinyl. If we can just take off any

of the band saw marks. Katie

Okay.

Just really light. Katie

Yeah. Now, we'll assemble the build-out with some stainless steel screws. Now, I'm going to drill pilot holes for the lag bolts that will secure the awning to the house. Alright, we're ready to mount this block. You said you wanted to put it a little bit higher, right?

Katie

Yeah, just a little bit higher.

Nathan

So, right about there's good?

Katie

Yeah, that looks great.

Nathan

So what I went ahead and did is I actually added a little notch here because you have a joint in your vinyl siding right there. So, to keep it running level, I relieved about 1/8 inch, so we're ready to screw it on. I found the center line of the door and I transferred that mark up here, so we're going to be centered over our opening. I'm applying sealant to tighten everything up and ensure that water doesn't get in.

Katie

It really just blends in with the siding.

Nathan

Yeah,

like we weren't even here. Katie

Yeah.

Nathan

I'm going to add two rows of sealant across the top. The awning will push in and compress that, become watertight. Put all your force behind it.

Katie

Good?

Nathan

Yep. I'll take that back.

If you want to hold it right there. Katie

Yep.

Nathan

There you go.

Katie

Good?

Nathan

Yeah. Does that seem pretty set?

Katie

Yeah.

Nathan

Alright, now we have some threaded taps that are going to cover our screws. Alright, Katie, you're all set. What do you think?

Katie

It's great. Thanks so much. No rain.

Nice and dry. Katie

Yeah.

Nathan

If you have questions about your house, we'd love to hear from you. Until next time, I'm Nathan Gilbert for "Ask This Old House."

Kevin

Next time on "Ask This Old House"... We tend to forget about our hot water heaters until something goes wrong. Richard gives a homeowner peace of mind by replacing his old tank with a new one. Plus, woodpeckers can cause a lot of problems. So, Tommy will show you how to make the repairs and prevent future damage. Then... Mauro shows a homeowner how to paint over their 1950s bathroom tile. All that on "Ask This Old House."