Ask This Old House

Kevin

On "Ask This Old House," our experts travel across the country to answer questions about your house. Today, looking to stain your chimney or foundation? We'll break down different coatings and finishes for masonry. Then we'll show you how to clean and maintain a backyard fish pond. And on "Build It," we'll make a three-legged demilune table. It's the perfect accent piece for a small space. All that on "Ask This Old House." Hey,

Mark. Mark

Kevin.

Kevin

So, I know we're talking about sealing masonry, but I got a beef. I mean, do I really have to seal something as sturdy as concrete block, granite, brick? I mean, what's the deal?

Mark

Well, maybe not right after installation, but after the weather beats it up for 30, 40, 50 years, you're going to want to do something.

Kevin

So you're talking long-term maintenance once the house is old?

Okay. Mark

Exactly.

Now I'm with you. Mark

Right.

Kevin

Alright. So in your world, masonry that we're sealing, obviously concrete block, obviously brick.

Yep. Kevin

Stucco as well?

Mark

Stucco as well,

yeah. Kevin

Gotcha. So those are the things that we're gonna be working on here.

Exactly. Kevin

And if I want to seal them outside to protect them, what's the process?

Mark

So, first thing I would do is make sure all of the masonry is intact. So any loose joints, any broken brick, get them out, replace them, and replace that mortar joint. Get a solid surface to start with.

Gotcha. Mark

Second thing I'm gonna do

is wet down the wall. Kevin

Okay.

Mark

Then I'm going to apply a detergent, okay?

Kevin

So when you say detergent, not an acid or anything like that. Just something that's...?

Mark

That's right. This is very environmentally friendly. The acid is actually the opposite.

Kevin

Gotcha. And this one actually says for "masonry cleaner" right there.

Right. Kevin

Okay. And I presume this guy gets involved.

Mark

Little bit of scrub, right. And then after that, we're going to apply the sealer, which is going to be a water-based sealer all the time.

Okay. Mark

Alright?

Kevin

This one actually tells us right on the bottle that it's good for concrete, brick, as well as tile.

Mark

Right. And application is simple. You're either going to use a sprayer or a brush.

Kevin

Gotcha. And so that's interesting. When I see tile on there, I wasn't expecting that. You're going to seal the sidewall of a house, foundation, walls. Would you do a patio, a pathway, a walkway as well?

Mark

So, I would not do a patio. I would not do a walkway or anything like that just because when the sealer is activated, if you will, with rain water or just water, it becomes a slip surface.

Oh. Mark

And then, of course, when the temperature drops up here in New England,

it becomes ice. Kevin

Gotcha.

Mark

So that's why I stay away from those type of surfaces.

Kevin

Gotcha. Okay. So that is our sealing process on the outside.

Right. Kevin

I'm looking at this right here, and it's got me thinking about -- this is for protection.

Now changing the look. Mark

Right.

Kevin

I want to change the look. What's that process? I know you hate paint.

Mark

Well, I hate paint only because, again, it's not what we want. We want our product, which is the brick or the masonry, to breathe. The paint, once you apply the paint, it's a complete seal. So any moisture behind the brick, any water can't push its way out. And that's when you see paint start to chip, start to warp. All those problems become evident.

Kevin

So instead of paint, you like what?

Mark

So this is actually what we call a whitewash. Can be done with white Portland cement, in this case. And you can also use a stain, a white stain, to mimic this process.

Kevin

So stain is the thing that you prefer over paint. And the difference there is stains typically penetrate?

Mark

Yes. So that's the advantage is the stain will penetrate the masonry surface. And once it gets in there and solidifies, it becomes the repellent. And the best thing about it is you can almost do any color.

Kevin

Gotcha. Okay. So this is the look we're talking about. This is not a complete coat. So that's one look. But every color. Any color. If we go inside, samples of different colors

we got right here. Mark

Yep.

Kevin

So we could seal this inside, right?

Mark

You can seal this. If you're a fan of the red brick, there's a clear sealer out there that does an awesome job of keeping the weather out.

Right. Right. Mark

That's invisible. You'll always have that look.

Kevin

But if I wanted to change the color, I can now just pick up whatever I want. Literally a bucket of paint, or in this case, masonry stain.

Mark

This is masonry stain applied by a brush. And we're going from a light color in-between all the way to a dark color. But anything you think of, anything you can bring a chip into the store, they will make.

Kevin

So if I have an accent color in my house and I wanted the foundation to be that accent color,

I can get a perfect match. Mark

Absolutely.

Kevin

Now, if I go from red to white...

Right. Kevin

...can I go back? Can I go home again?

Mark

You cannot.

So... Kevin

Ever?

Mark

Ever, Kevin. You can see all those nooks and crannies that are in that brick. We call that the character of the brick. Once you apply any color stain, it just digs itself into these nooks and crannies. And when you do try to clean it, you have to get very aggressive, which will ruin the brick.

Kevin

So I can't go from the white back to the red. Can I go from the white to a darker color to the gray?

Mark

Absolutely. So, if you're on a white and you want to get darker, very, very easy.

Kevin

Oh, that's good because I'm commitment averse.

Chuckles

Kevin

If I wanted to go to, say, a block on the exterior and I wanted to give a color to this, I can do it outside as well?

Mark

As well. It's a perfect product for that application because, again, the foundations take a lot of beating over the years. And, again, once you apply this and you match -- instead of having a gray foundation, you actually can match the body of your house or the trim. It's a seamless look.

Kevin

I'm not going to ask you if I can paint the actual granite, but could I seal this if I had a rubble stone or granite foundation?

Mark

So, if you have a stone foundation, we still encourage you to seal. And the reason we do that is because you have masonry joints that are around the stone. So the sealer is not going to really penetrate that stone. It will act as a shield for maybe a few years and then wash off. But again, it's going to sink into that mortar because it'll be sucked in, activated and repel water.

Kevin

So mostly about the mortar.

Yeah. Kevin

Cool. Man, you are unflappable. I love it. All the information. Thank you, Mark.

Mark

Alright, Kevin.

Jenn

Hey,

Pat. Patrick

Hey, Jenn. Thanks for coming out.

Jenn

Yeah, thanks for having me. I love the approach to your backyard, all your hostas and stepping stones.

Patrick

We love it. We love it very much. We do have a pond that's been giving us some trouble.

Jenn

I've heard. And I could hear it.

Patrick

Well,

come on back. Jenn

Let's go check it out.

And here it is. Jenn

This is beautiful.

This is beautiful. Patrick

Thank you. No, it is. We love the pond. And there's really -- Like, this time of year, there's nothing better than sitting on the porch

listening to the pond. Jenn

Absolutely. You can hide from the mosquitoes. But I love how it's like mimicking nature. You have natural stones around it. You have a spillway and you have plants accenting it. It just needs a little bit of love.

Patrick

Yeah, you know, and this is our first pond. We have no idea what we're doing. You know, we got some of the stones have fallen down.

Yeah. Patrick

You can see there's a lot of algae in the bottom.

Jenn

There's a ton, and I think your fish would love it if you cleaned it out a little bit. So I have a very good friend of mine, and I've asked him to come help us. He does all pond restoration, and he's going to help us figure out how to get rid of the algae, clean up all the little rocks that have fallen, and maybe incorporate a few new boulders.

Patrick

Fantastic.

Jenn

Okay. Pat, like to introduce you to my friend Fred.

Fred

How you doing?

Patrick

Pleasure to meet you.

Nice to meet you. Patrick

Thank you very much.

Jenn

He's worked on this show with us several times before. And what's your assessment of this pond?

Fred

Pond is great. I mean, it's really in a nice spot with your screen porch. The sound of the waterfall drowns out the traffic. So love all that. It does look a little bit messy. Have you ever done a clean out or drained this at all?

Patrick

No. We have no idea what we're doing with the pond.

Fred

Alright, perfect. So I think that's where we should start. We'll do a quick drain and clean on this. What we're doing is mimicking Mother Nature. So in the spring, you get the spring rains, the snowmelt flushes out the natural rivers, lakes, streams. So by doing the clean out, we're kind of doing the same thing, giving it a fresh start, getting all this debris out of here. You'll have a much healthier pond through the season.

Great. Jenn

I love that it's mimicking Mother Nature. Let's go with it and let's get started on the draining.

Patrick

Sounds good.

Fred

So I've got all the fish in the tank. They're ready to be held while we clean the pond. I'm going to add an aerator to keep some oxygen going so they can still breathe while we're doing the cleanup. So now that we've got everything washed, cleaned up, let's spend a little time restacking some of these rocks, covering the liner a little better, stabilizing things. And this thing will start to come back together.

Jenn

It's gonna be the perfect hiding spot for your fish.

Patrick

Good. Good. Yeah, we've lost half of them to some unknown predator, so...

Jenn

It's because there's nowhere to stash themselves.

Alright. Fred

So, Pat, when we were cleaning this out, I notice you don't have any lights in here. Do you guys ever sit out here at night?

Patrick

Oh,

we do. Fred

I think I'd be really cool if we add a few lights to really make this thing pop at night. You can see the fish swimming, they're more active. This thing will glow. I think it'd be cool.

Patrick

That would be fantastic. Yeah, let's do it.

Fred

So I brought a couple of low-voltage, three-watt LED lights.

Jenn

Just a couple simple lights just add so much drama in the landscape.

It's gonna just... Fred

Just makes a whole nother new pond that you'll see at night.

Patrick

Yeah, this is gonna be great.

Fred

Now that the lights are hooked up, we're ready to refill the pond. We'll just take the garden hose and fill it in with nice, fresh, clean water. I want to upgrade the biological filter, add some more filter media to that for the beneficial bacteria to grow on and keep the water crystal clear. We're going to add a little bit of dechlorinator We're going to add an auto doser, which will automatically add that bacteria for us. So we'll set it and kind of forget it. Then the fish can go back in and we can sit back and enjoy.

Jenn

Alright. Everything's clean. The pond is back on, and just let the fishes go back home.

Patrick

Alright, here we go, fish friends. Oh, come on. There we go.

Wow. Fred

They look so happy.

Jenn

They look so happy. Look how clean it is.

Patrick

It looks fantastic. Thank you so much.

Kevin

Hey,

Tommy. Tom

Hey, Kevin. What do you think?

Kevin

Wow, look at that. That is gorgeous.

Tom

Yeah, this is a half-moon table. also called a demilune table.

Kevin

Oh,

imitates speaking in French

Kevin

.

Tom

You know French?

Kevin

No.

Tom

Oh, me either.

Laughter

Tom

I have trouble with English. This is a table that I built when I was in probably

ninth grade high school. Kevin

No kidding. Really? A high school shop project?

Tom

Yeah.

That's awesome. Tom

It was a fun project.

Kevin

Okay, so obviously half round on the top, which is very nice so sits up against the wall maybe.

Tom

Yeah, so it sits up against the wall.

Kevin

And then just a simple curved apron and three tapered legs.

Tom

Yep. Well, the curve is on the -- on the apron, actually, right here. And the tapered legs are tapered on all four sides.

Kevin

I say simple curve. I've no idea how to do a curved apron, but I'm sure you're going to tell me. So what do we think? Are you going to rebuild it for old times sake?

Tom

For old times sake, but, you know, this is interesting because this argument's been for years with my youngest brother, John, who says, "I built that table." And I say, "Well, I built the table." He says, "No, I built." So he built one also. We just can't remember who built this particular one,

but I think it was him. Kevin

I'm going to ask Dickie.

See what he says. Tom

Actually,

I think it was me. Kevin

Alright. So where do you want to start?

Tom

Well, let's start with the apron right here. We have to bend that piece of wood up.

Imitates speaking in French

Tom

Okay. Whoa, look at you, huh? Alright, Kevin, before I start anything, what I like to start with is a full-sized scale drawing to come off of, because we're working with circles and arches, and you want to make sure that it's right. So if you look at what I have here is we're looking at the -- let's say the table's upside down and we're looking at the legs that are attached to the table, the apron. And this is the center of the circle right here. I stopped it out about an inch, okay? The reason is, is because this arch, when we draw off of the table, I don't want the arch to continue and have a slight curve when it goes into the wall. I want it to end it at a nice definition of the end.

Kevin

So this is the center of the circle, and then it goes back straight from the right.

Yeah. Kevin

Okay.

Tom

So once I've done -- I have my piece and I know what I want to do. I then measure from the diameter of the circle right here and I set my radius and I swing an arch.

So that's for the top. Tom

That's for the top.

Outside edge of the top. Tom

Right. And I would then -- I take my square, I put my square right here and where the arch end, I then draw a straight line to make it square there and bring it down here where the arch ends at the diameter. Run a line there so I have my termination points. Now I have to think about the radius for the apron. Everything comes from the same point because all of the arches, although they're smaller, are parallel to one another in the circle. So I then bring my divider in my compass in. I set that and swing it, swing it.

Kevin

That's the outside radius of the apron.

Tom

Right. Now I have to think about the thickness of that. So I made this, I believe it's like one inch. And so I bring it in and I swing my radius there and there.

Kevin

Inside radius of the apron.

Tom

Right. Okay. So now I have a visual of what I'm going to do, the position of the legs, the length of each pieces. And I have to think about how do I want to make these curved pieces.

Kevin

Yeah, so how are you going to cut that? Is it going to come out of a big block?

Tom

Well, I brought that block to say that you could take this out of that, put it on here, transfer these marks over and cut it. But you're going to use this big chunk of wood and you're going to need two of them to cut the two aprons.

Kevin

So a lot of waste and a beefy band saw.

Tom

It can be. So I decided to take these pieces right here. I ripped them down on a table saw.

A glue up. Tom

And they are bendable.

Yeah. Tom

Okay? Now, believe it or not, I still use a lot of material because you have the thickness of the apron, but you also have to think about the thickness of the blade. So double this width is the material that we use.

Kevin

Gotcha. Okay, so you need a jig to hold that bend.

Tom

Right, and this tells me how to build that jig.

Okay. Tom

Okay? And so this is the form that I made or jig.

Kevin

And what is this? This thing's bigger than the table itself.

Tom

This is heavy. This is four pieces of MDF that I screwed together. And then what I did is I took some water-based urethane and coated it with about four or five coats of that. And then I put a layer of paste wax on it so the glue wouldn't stick to it.

Kevin

So now we bend and glue, bend and glue, and clamp it in here.

Tom

Right. So when I take -- This first piece is going to go in dry. You take and put your clamp on it, and just --

Kevin

Tighten it?

Tom

Nope.

Leave it as it is. Tom

Just hold it there, that's all. I'm going to center it like that, okay?. So now what we need to do is we're going to put glue on one side of each piece, and I'm going to use a slow-setting glue. Alright. I'll just put a nice layer on. So here we go. I'm gonna get that. You're going to just put a little tension on that if you can, yeah. Pull it in easy with your clamp and just let that sit. And we'll repeat this process with the rest of the boards. Now we'll take this. And I'm going to just tap it easy. Get it started. Okay. So now we got to start putting clamps on it. So now we have our clamps alternated so when we tighten it, it will go in parallel. So, see I've got that joint open there? I'm gonna load some glue in there.

Kevin

How long you want us to set up?

Tom

Well, we're going to set it up overnight, alright? But while that's setting up, we can work on the legs. Alright, so the next thing we need to do is take our legs and taper them on all four sides.

Okay. Tom

Okay? So this is a sample of what I have now. If you look at the top of the leg right here, this is actually straight before it starts to taper.

Kevin

And why is that?

Tom

Well, it gives me a nice flat surface to mount the apron to.

Kevin

So when tapering, you got a jig for that?

Tom

I got a jig. And so what I did is I've ripped the legs out of mahogany and I'm actually going to make them just a little bit bigger than my sample piece.

Okay. Tom

Okay? Which isn't a big deal. So I found the center and then I drew the width that I wanted at the bottom of the taper.

Gotcha. Tom

So I set this on my tapering jig like this, and I have a stop here so the board doesn't -- so I can push against.

Kevin

Oh, and so then the outside of that line lines up to the edge of your jig here.

Tom

Right. Now, if you look down here, you can see that the saw will end right about here,

giving me a flat cut. Kevin

Okay.

Tom

Alright?

Kevin

So the material will

stop coming all the way... Tom

Right, so what I'm gonna do is I'll make a cut, I'll rotate it, make a cut. Then you see what I have to do after that.

Okay. Tom

Alright. So I glued this up yesterday, so I wanted the glue to dry overnight. So now I'm going to take it out of the form. And what I did is I waxed this really well after a couple of coats of water-based urethane, so hopefully it won't stick to the form. Oh, look at that, huh?

Kevin

Go ahead.

Tom

Alright. Let's see how it stayed. Oh,

Whistles

Tom

Stayed good. So that's the apron all glued up. Now what we need to do is true it up with the jointer. We'll do a few passes, and then we'll take this and run it through the planer so it'll be the same thickness all the way around.

Kevin

That's pretty cool and good looking.

Tom

Yeah, it looks good all sanded up.

Kevin

I mean, how are you gonna cut it, though, right? Because the legs are going to go in between and on the ends.

Tom

Right, so we have to figure that and figure the angle that we have to cut it, so here's a drawing full size. Now, if I take the piece and I put it here and I just eyeball it because I want to be in a rough location, same arch. So to get the angle across the back...

Kevin

Just connect the dots and now you know you got your line.

Tom

And I've got my line and my angle all at once. Right there. And to get the angle for the front legs, which I have right there, I can take the square here and I can go up like this. There you go.

Kevin

So that's where you're going to make your cuts?

Tom

That's where I'm going to make my cuts.

Whirring

Tom

I want to cut the mortise in my aprons and my legs using my handheld mortising machine.

Whirring

Tom

Okay, so now all of our pieces are sanded and we're ready to glue it up. But just before we glue it up, I'm going to use some sanding paste first. It's another layer of sanding really fine, but it'll also fill the grains of the wood and give it a little bit of a color. I like to do it before we put the glue on in case we get any glue spilling out of the joints. It'll wipe off nice and easy.

Kevin

Oh, okay. So is this also your final finish, Tommy?

Tom

No. What we'll do is we're going to put a wax over it. I could lacquer it. We could put a water base over it. Okay. Let's get all the glue cleaned off.

Kevin

How long you think we got to let this set up?

Tom

About half an hour. An hour at the most. We'll make the top next. We're going to use our template. Okay. So remember that the first inch in is square. So I'll put a mark there. First inch in on this is square, and it's square off the center of the circle.

Okay. Tom

And this is the center of our circle right here, so I'll just transfer our mark right over. I also want to be from the back side of the table one inch back. So now I'm going to come one inch this way.

Kevin

So you're basically finding the center point again so you can swing another radii?

Tom

Right. So that's where I'll put the center to place the screw for my swing stick that will make the radius.

Kevin

So you're going to cut this with the router?

Tom

Exactly. I have a templating guide on the router plate that will sit right into that hole. So now I can reach under and I can feel the beginning where I want to start the cut, because the board will be even. We're probably going to do three passes.

Whirring

Kevin

So, all the way through, just a couple of stray cuts.

Tom

Right. We'll do a little stray cut here. Line it up with that line right there. We'll don't do the same thing over here.

Whirring

Tom

Okay. So there's my square cut, and that's our radius.

Whirring

Tom

I used a quarter-inch slotting bit inside in the front and the back apron to accept the clips to hold the top down for expansion and contraction. So put this on.

Kevin

So how do you want to fasten top to bottom?

Tom

Well, we're going to fasten it with those little clips that I made right there, and that's out of some scrap pine. I also put these right in the slot like that.

Whirring

Tom

Alright, sonny. Let's flip it over.

Kevin

Take that.

Get this out of the way. Tom

Alright.

Kevin

Have a look at it. Whoa, Tommy, c'est magnifique.

Tom

"Say megafite"?

Kevin

C'est magnifique.

It's a compliment. Tom

Oh, it is? Oh.

Kevin

It is. Look at that! That thing looks awesome.

Tom

It looks pretty good. It's a fun project.

Kevin

Hang on a second. Hang on a second.

Tom

Oh,

the old and the new. Kevin

Let's see what 50 years

does for you. Tom

Yeah, well, I grew up, see?

Kevin

Apparently. Nice project. Good job. Next time on "Ask This Old House," on "Tool Lab," Nathan will break down track saws.

Whirring

Kevin

Then Mark will repair and repoint a brick-and-stone pizza oven. And as we wrap up season 20, we'll bring back an oldie but goodie. We'll ask our team to answer the age-old question, "What is it?"

Laughter

Kevin

On "Ask This Old House."