Amanpour and Company

>>> NOW WE TURN TO AN EXTRAORDINARY FIGURE MAKING AN IMPACT IN THE MEDICAL FIELD.

DR. CATALAN CARICO ENTER RESEARCH PARTNER WERE AWARDED THE NOBEL PRIZE IN MEDICINE LAST MONTH FOR THEIR GROUNDBREAKING WORK ON TECHNOLOGY, A VITAL INGREDIENT IN COVID-19 VACCINES.

SHE JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS THIS MILESTONE IN HER NEW MEMOIR, RAKING THROUGH, MY LIFE IN SCIENCE.

>> Reporter: THINK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

FOR THOSE OF US WHO MAY HAVE BEEN UNDER A ROCK , WE'VE GOT ONE OF THE GREATEST HONORS, WHICH IS THE NOBEL PRIZE IN MEDICINE, FOR YOUR WORK AND MESSENGER RNA.

MESSENGER RNA MAY HAVE GOTTEN INTO THE PULP CULTURE, IT UNFORTUNATELY TOOK US A PANDEMIC TO KNOW WHAT THAT WAS.

BUT IF YOU CAN DESCRIBE, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU AND YOUR RESEARCHERS DID TO WIN THIS PRIZE?

>> WE DID NOT INVENT THIS, IT IS IN OUR BODY.

WHAT HAPPENED IS IT REDUCES RNA.

IT WAS NOT VISIBLE FOR MEDICAL USE BECAUSE IT CAUSED INFLAMMATION.

WHAT WE DID, AMYLASE MADE FROM FOR BASIC BUILDING BLOCKS, AND WE HAVE CHANGED ONE OF THEM.

AND THAT BECAME THIS MESSENGER RNA.

THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN THE BIOTECH PFIZER VACCINE.

>> THIS WAS AN UNDERLYING TECHNOLOGY ISSUE THAT WAS ADAPTED AND USED THROUGHOUT THE PANDEMIC.

THAT IS AN ENORMOUS WIN UNTO ITSELF.

BUT WHAT IS THE POTENTIAL WITH THE TECHNOLOGY THAT YOU HELPED EFFECT?

WHAT IS MESSENGER RNA, AND WHAT IS IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO OVERTIME?

>> THE MESSENGER RNA AND THE TECHNOLOGY WAS INFORMED 20 YEARS AGO, MORE THAN 20 YEARS AGO.

TRYING TO DIVVY UP A VACCINE FOR TREATMENT.

THAT IS HOW IT WAS STILL OUT.

OF COURSE, NOW THAT WE HAVE THAT ARE DATA NOW AND MORE PROMISING RESULTS.

BUT IT WAS ALSO USED FOR THERAPY.

TO DELIVER A COACH FOR A THERAPEUTIC -- PRESENT IN THE BODY BUT NOT IN THE RIGHT PLACE OR NOT ENOUGH.

GENETIC DISEASES ALSO BEING TREATED RIGHT NOW, IN CLINICAL TRIAL, MORE THAN 250 CLINICAL TRIALS ARE ONGOING WHERE MESSENGER RNA IS USED FOR THERAPIES.

THAT WOULD MEAN MORE VACCINES, VACCINES AGAINST VIRUSES, LIKE BACTERIA CAUSING LYME DISEASE.

AND EVEN PARASITES, LIKE FROM MALARIA.

AGAIN, OF COURSE, CANCER AS WELL AS THESE OTHER THERAPEUTIC MOLECULES.

THERE IS A PLATFORM.

MORE AND MORE WILL BE TAKEN UP.

>> Reporter: YOU HAVE A NEW MEMOIR OUT , WHICH IS FANTASTIC.

IT IS CALLED BREAKING THROUGH.

IN IT, YOU WERE DESCRIBING AS YOU CAN UP AS A SCIENTIST, YOUR MOTHER WAS WAITING FOR YOUR NAME TO BE READ OVER THE RADIO AS A WINNER OF THE NOBEL PRIZE.

>> YES, INDEED.

BUT IT WAS 10 OR 20 YEARS AGO.

COMING IN OCTOBER, SHE SAID NEXT WEEK, MAYBE YOU WILL GET THE NOBEL PRIZE.

I TOLD HER THAT IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN.

BUT SHE THOUGHT THAT I WROTE SO MUCH IN THAT I SHOULD DESERVE IT.

BUT I CONVINCED HER THAT ALL SCIENTISTS ARE WORKING VERY HARD.

>> Reporter: LET ME TAKE OUR VIEWERS BACK A LITTLE BIT THROUGH YOUR LIFE IN THIS BOOK .

IT IS ACCURATE TO SAY THAT YOU GREW UP AND LITERALLY DIRT POOR SURROUNDINGS.

IF YOU COULD TELL US A BIT ABOUT WHAT YOUR HOME WAS LIKE.

AS A PERSON WHO WAS HUNGRY, HE DESCRIBED A SCENARIO WHERE YOU DID NOT HAVE RUNNING WATER.

>> YES.

BUT FOR ME, IT WAS A PARADISE.

WE HAD THE GARDEN, WE HAD THE ANIMALS THERE, CHICKEN, PIGS.

WE HAD BEAUTIFUL FLOWERS THERE.

OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WENT TO GET WATER TO THE STREET, AND THAT WAS WHEN WE TALKED TO EACH OTHER AND CHECKED IN THERE.

>> THE WATERPUMP OF THE VILLAGE WAS THE VILLAGE CHAT ROOM.

>> EXACTLY.

IN OUR CLASSROOMS, MORE THAN 50 KIDS IN ONE CLASS.

BUT WE WERE QUIET AND WE HAD TO LISTEN.

IT SEEMS LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT WAS VERY DEPRIVED.

THE TEACHERS WERE GREAT.

WE HAD NO TELEVISION, NO FURNITURE, NOTHING.

BUT WE DID NOT KNOW WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAD IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

BUT NATURE SURROUNDED US.

IT WAS INTERESTING.

EVERYTHING IS COMING BACK.

YOU KNOW, THE BIRDS.

WE HAD CHICKENS, WE DO NOT NURTURE THOSE.

WE TOOK THEIR EGGS, AND THE HEN WAS SITTING RIGHT THERE, WE COULD SEE THE CHICKENS COMING OUT FROM THE EGGS.

>> Reporter: WHAT DO YOU THINK INSPIRED YOUR INTEREST IN EDUCATION?

>> YES, INDEED.

AS I MENTIONED, MY SISTER WAS THREE YEARS OLD.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOUR SISTER IS STUDYING WELL AND EVERYBODY IN THE VILLAGE EXPECTS THAT YOU WILL BE GOOD AS WELL.

I HAD TO BE GOOD BECAUSE THEY EXPECTED IT.

OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, I WAS CHALLENGED WITH A DIFFERENT COMPETITION IN WHICH WE COULD PARTICIPATE, I COULD LEARN.

AND I WAS WINNING A LITTLE.

EVENTUALLY, IN EIGHTH GRADE, I WAS INTERESTED IN THE COUNTRY BIOLOGY.

SO THAT IS HOW IT STARTED.

>> Reporter: YOU TALK INTERESTINGLY ABOUT SOME OF THE FIRST TIMES YOU WERE WATCHING TV AND BINGE WATCHING AMERICAN WESTERN TELEVISION.

IN ONE OF THE SHOWS THAT KEEP COMING UP IN THIS MEMOIR IS COLOMBO.

THE FUMBLING DETECTIVE SHOW BACK IN THE 70s.

WHY COLOMBO?

WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD THAT HAS HELPED DEFINE YOUR LIFE?

>> YES.

WHAT HAPPENED IN COLOMBO, WE KNEW WHO COMMITTED THE CRIME.

BUT LOOKING AT THIS THING, YOU KNOW, THIS IS HOW THINGS HAPPEN.

AND THEN YOU LOOK AT CLOSURE AND EVERYTHING FIT.

A CLUE THERE, IT IS NOT SITTING THERE.

WHAT THEY CALL A -- THE PATIENT COMES THERE, YOU SEE THE SIGN, AND YOU CONCLUDE WHAT IS WRONG.

ONE THING IS NOT FITTING.

AND THAT IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT.

YOU NEVER IGNORE THAT LITTLE THING.

BECAUSE COLOMBO SHOWED IT.

THIS LITTLE THING WOULD LEAD YOU TO THE RIGHT PERPETRATOR, SOLUTION, OR ANSWER.

>> Reporter: TELL ME ABOUT THE DECISION YOU MADE TO TRY TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES FOR ACADEMIC OPPORTUNITY .

WHY DID YOU MAKE THAT LEAP IN THE FIRST PLACE, COMPARED TO THE LABORATORIES THAT YOU ARE WORKING IN?

>> I LOST MY POSITION THERE.

WE LOST THE FUNDING FOR THE RESEARCH WE WERE DOING IN A HUNGRY .

I WAS NOT TERMINATED IN MY POSITION, OR ELSE WE WOULD NOT TALK TODAY.

BECAUSE IT WAS PART OF IT.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT I EMPHASIZE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE DECISION WASN'T MADE, AND I DID NOT SPEND TIME FEELING SORRY FOR MYSELF, BUT RATHER FOCUS THAN WHAT I SHOULD DO NEXT.

AND THAT WAS THE MANTRA OF THE HUNGARIAN SCIENTIST, WHAT HE SAID.

OH, YOU CAN HANDLE STRESS BUT YOU FOCUS ON WHAT YOU CANNOT CHANGE.

WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, AGAIN, IF I HAD ALREADY READ THE BOOK, WE WOULD NOT BE TALKING HERE.

BECAUSE WE LEARNED HOW TO HANDLE THE STRESS AND FOCUS ON THINGS WE CAN CHANGE.

EVERYTHING, YOU HAVE TO RECEIVE THE -- TRYING TO MAKE MY LIFE MISERABLE.

BECAUSE I WORK HARDER AND I GET IMPROVED.

>> Reporter: YOU POINTED OUT THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU PUBLISHED YOUR RESEARCH WITH DREW WISEMAN YEARS BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, IT REALLY WAS NOT CITED HUNDRED THOUSANDS OF TIMES UNTIL THE PANDEMIC HIT.

THAT IS WHEN PEOPLE STARTED TO MIGHT -- THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SO OTHER -- HAS COME UNTIL WE ARE FORCED TO START LOOKING FOR ANSWERS.

>> THAT IS HOW SCIENCE IS.

ME AND HUNGRY , WHEN IT STARTED TO WORK, IT IS SOMEBODY IN THE ACADEMIA COMING IN.

IT IS USUALLY THE OPPOSITE.

FROM THE FIRST DAY, WHAT YOU ARE DOING HAS TO BE USEFUL FOR SOMETHING.

WE ARE THINKING, WHAT WOULD IT BE USEFUL FOR?

YOU KNOW, I AM DOING SOMETHING.

AND MANY SCIENTISTS ARE THINKING OF THE SAME WAY.

I MEAN, MORE AND MORE COMPANIES WERE CREATED IN THE UNIVERSITY SETTING.

SO THAT IS THE WAY TO RECOGNIZE.

WE PUBLISHED IN 2006, WHEN WE MADE THE COMPANY.

BUT WE COULD NOT GET THE PACKET FOR OUR COMPANY.

THAT IS MAYBE ANOTHER ONE.

OUR COMPANY QUICKLY -- THE COUNTRY.

>> Reporter: A LOT OF PEOPLE WONDER ABOUT HOW THE INFRASTRUCTURE, IF IT IS NECESSARY TO PRODUCE THE TYPE OF WORK AND THE PACE OF WORK THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO PRODUCE OVER THE YEARS.

WE ATTRIBUTE A LOT OF THAT TO HER SUPPORTIVE HUSBAND.

WE ALSO NEED BETTER CHILDCARE.

>> HIGH POLITY.

IT WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE HERE.

I WAS LUCKY, AND HUNGRY, WHEN MY DAUGHTER WAS BORN IN 1992, THREE MONTHS LATER, I TOOK HER TO THE TRICARE CENTER.

YOU KNOW, THAT WAS GOING TO WORK.

AND THEN COME BACK, PICK HER UP, THEY DID NOT PROVIDE CLOSER FOOD, THEY JUST PROVIDED THE VACCINE.

THE NURSE WAS PRESENT IN IT.

AND EVERY DAY, THE PEDIATRICIAN CAME TO THE NURSE, AND I COULD LEAVE A MESSAGE.

AND THEY CAN EITHER SAY YEAH, IT IS NORMAL.

OR YOU CAN GO TO A SPECIALIST.

WHEN I WALKED, I THOUGHT I WAS RELAXED.

I KNOW PROFESSIONALS ARE THERE WITH MY SHOT.

YOU KNOW, I DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY THAT THIS WAS AN OLD LADY, MAYBE SHE WOULD GET SICK, AND THEN MIGHT TRIBE IS NOT ATTENDING.

AND A NOMINAL FEE.

IT WAS JUST A NOMINAL FEE BASED ON HOW MUCH INCOME I HAVE AND HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO PAY.

YOU KNOW, IF SOMEONE IS NOT FAST ENOUGH TO GET A NANNY, THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CLICK AWAY.

THEY GIVE UP THE DREAM, THE JOB, AND THEY TAKE A LOWER LEVEL OF JOB BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY IS LOOKING AT US.

OF COURSE, WE ALSO FEEL, OKAY, WE HAVE TO DO IT.

I HAVE TO STAY HOME, I HAVE TO HELP MY ELDERLY PARENTS OR SO ON.

THE BUILT NOT GOING UP.

SO THE OTHER YOUNG GIRLS THAT FIND THE RIGHT HUSBAND.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT OUR NATIONAL, IN THE UNITED STATES, OUR CONVERSATION ABOUT SCIENCE OF THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS OF THE PANDEMIC?

THERE IS SUCH A GAP BETWEEN WHAT PEOPLE KNOW AND WHAT THEY WOULD NEED TO KNOW TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE VACCINES AND MEDICINES THAT SAVE LIVES.

THAT GAP RIGHT NOW IS WIDE OPEN FOR EXPLOITATION.

WE MUST SOMEHOW CLOSE IT.

EVEN THOUGH THE VACCINES OR SAVING LIVES AND YOU COULD SEE THAT RESULT, THERE WAS STILL SUCH A DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE VACCINES WORKED.

>> AFTER THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY SURPRISING FOR ME.

I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS GROWING UP IN HUNGRY , WE HAD THE VACCINE FOR MANY DIFFERENT THINGS, AND WE WERE HAPPY THAT WE HAD VACCINES, SO THAT WE WOULD BE PROTECTED.

I HAVE TO SAY THAT WHEN PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, THEY TRY TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING, OR THEY ARE READING SOMETHING ANTHONY COMES UP WITH A STUPID IDEA, AND THEY JUST BELIEVE THEM.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE A STORM AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN A LONG TIME AGO, THEY SAID THE SKY IS ANGRY.

SO WE NEED EXPLANATIONS.

THEY START TO BELIEVE THAT HAPPENED.

SOMEBODY PUT A CHIP IN THE VACCINE, SO HE WANTS TO KILL US, SO HE WANTS TO FOLLOW US.

AND I DO NOT KNOW THIS, WHY SOME PEOPLE ARE SO SENSITIVE TO THIS KIND OF DISTORTED VIEW.

BUT WHAT I THINK MAYBE WHAT PSYCHOLOGISTS IN DIFFERENT SCIENCE FIELDS, THEY NEED TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION, HOW WE COULD FIGHT MISINFORMATION.

>> IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES COMES TO YOU AND ASKS YOU FOR ADVICE ON PREPARING FOR WHAT MIGHT BE THE NEXT PANDEMIC, WHAT WOULD YOUR PRESCRIPTION BE?

IS IT SCIENCE EDUCATION, ABOUT MISINFORMATION ALONG WITH THE ACTUAL HARD SCIENCE?

WHERE SHOULD WE BE INVESTING OUR TIME AND RESOURCES IN PREPARING?

>> DEFINITELY.

THAT IS WHY I OFFERED MY TIME FOR EDUCATION, TO TALK TO THE REPORTERS.

TOGETHER, WE HAVE TO SOMEHOW SIMPLIFY THE LANGUAGE, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, SCIENCE USES TERMS THAT NO OTHER FIELD USES.

YOU SEE, NOT JUST THE NNRA PEOPLE, BUT PCR.

THEY CAN LEARN AND THEN THEY HAVE SOME IDEA OF WHAT IT COULD BE.

WE HAVE TO HAVE THEM.

OF COURSE, THE NEXT PANDEMIC, MNRA, WE CAN RESPOND VERY QUICKLY.

BUT THE GAP IS SO HUGE.

AND THOSE PEOPLE PROVIDING THIS INFORMATION, THEY ACTUALLY BENEFITED FROM THAT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING TO US.

CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN ON THE NOBEL PRIZE.

>> THANK YOU, THANK YOU.