Amanpour and Company

>>> NOW, IT IS ALL ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE, AN ESSENTIAL PART OF DAILY LIFE, WHETHER IN PUBLIC HEALTH, UTILITY SYSTEMS OR INDEED HOW WE GET AROUND. IN THE UNITED STATES, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE GOING TOWARDS IMPROVING TRANSIT IN PRESIDENT BIDEN'S AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN. THE INDUSTRY WAS HIT HARD DURING THE PANDEMIC AND PETE BUTTIGIEG IS BIDEN'S NEW TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY. HE TELLS OUR WALTER ISAACSON IT IS AN EQUITY ISSUE THAT'S TIED TO HEALTH AND, OF COURSE, THE CLIMATE. THIS CONVERSATION IS PART OF THE ONGOING PUBLIC MEDIA INITIATIVE PERIL AND PROMISES AND THE CHALLENGES AND SOLUTIONS OF CLIMATE CHANGE. >> THANK YOU. WELCOME TO THE SHOW. >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME. GOOD TO BE WITH YOU. >> THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN THAT WAS JUST PASSED TO FIGHT COVID, IT'S GOT $30 BILLION FOR PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, FOR TRANSIT. FIRST OF ALL, WHY IS THAT PART OF A COVID RELIEF BILL AND, SECONDLY, WHAT IS IT GOING TO DO? >> TWO SIMPLE REASONS WHY IT IS PART OF A COVID RELIEF BILL. FIRST OF ALL, COVID IS THE REASON WHY THESE PUBLIC TRANSIT AGENCIES AND OTHER PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION ENTITIES GOT CRUSHED WHEN IT CAME TO REVENUE. MANY OF THEM WILL BE LAYING OFF MANY WORKERS IF WE DON'T SOMETHING. THE SECOND REASON THIS HAS TO DO WITH COVID RELIEF IS THE SIMPLE FACT THAT WE CAN'T EXPECT AMERICANS TO BE VACCINATED IF THEY CAN'T GET TO WHERE THE SHOTS ARE AVAILABLE. PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION IS PART OF PUBLIC HEALTH. YOU CAN'T SEPARATE THE TWO. THIS INFUSION OF SUPPORT FROM THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN IS TO ALLOW US TO BRING A LOT OF THESE AGENCIES BACK FROM THE BRINK, NOT JUST LOCAL PUBLIC TRANSIT BUT ALSO AMTRAK, WHICH WAS GOING TO HAVE TO CUT EVEN MORE ROUTES. NOW THEY'RE RESTORING ROUTES ALREADY. WE SAW NEWS ABOUT AIRLINES TELLING EMPLOYEES THEY COULD TEAR UP THOSE FURLOUGH NOTICES. THIS IS A REAL SIGH OF RELIEF ACROSS THE TRANSPORTATION SECTOR. >> HERE IN SOUTH BEND AND NEW ORLEANS, WHAT CAN WE EXPECT? >> WITH THE RESCUE PLAN WE'RE ABLE TO GET BACK ON OUR FEET. FOR THE LONG RUN I'M REALLY ENERGIZED ABOUT WHAT'S POSSIBLE. I THINK WE HAVE A ONCE IN A LIFETIME COMBINATION OF PUBLIC IMPATIENCE, BIPARTISAN INTEREST, A SUPPORTIVE PRESIDENT AND THE RIGHT KIND OF ECONOMIC CONDITIONS TO DO SOMETHING BIG IN COMMUNITIES LIKE NEW ORLEANS OR SOUTH BEND. THAT COULD MEAN ENSURING THAT WE HAVE MORE OF THE ROUTES THAT ARE GOING TO SERVE THOSE WHO MAYBE HAVE BEEN BYPASSED IN THE PAST. IT ALSO MEANS MAKING SURE TRANSIT IS PART OF THE CLIMATE SOLUTIONS. WE HAVE PROGRAMS ALREADY THAT MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR AGENCIES, FOR EXAMPLE, TO BUY BUSES THAT RUN ON ELECTRIC POWER AND ARE NOT EMITTING. THAT'S JUST THE BEGINNING OF WHAT WE COULD DO. AGAIN, A LOT OF THESE THINGS ARE CONNECTED. A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE CLOSER TO BUS ROUTES AND HIGHWAYS THAT HAVE VEHICLES WITH HIGH EMISSIONS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE COMMUNITIES OF COLOR AND ARE MORE LIKELY TO SUFFER FROM HEALTH ISSUES RELATED TO PARTICULATE MATTER GOING INTO THE AIR. NOW IS TIME FOR AN INFRASTRUCTURE VISION, WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC TRANSIT, AVIATION, DRIVING OR ANY OTHER WAY OF GETTING PEOPLE AND GOODS AROUND THE COUNTRY, NOW IS THE TIME TO EMBRACE THE GOALS OF CLIMB RESPONSIBILITY, EQUITY AND ECONOMIC STRENGTHS FOR THE FUTURE. >> HOW DO YOU BUILD CLIMATE RESPONSIBILITY INTO AN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL THAT YOU'RE THINKING OF? >> WELL, THINK ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH ELECTRIC VEHICLES. THE TECHNOLOGY IS GETTING BETTER AND BETTER IN THE CARS, BUT WE'VE GOT TO GO ALONG WAY IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THERE'S THE CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE SO PEOPLE WOULD NOT BE ANXIOUS ABOUT WHETHER THEY WOULD RUN OUT OF CHARGE ON A MEDIUM-SIZED TRIP. THAT'S WHY THE PRESIDENT COMMITTED TO INSTALLING HALF A MILLION ELECTRIC VEHICLE CHARGING STATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. IT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT WE NEED TO DO AS A MATTER OF POLICY IN ORDER FOR THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO BE ABLE TO DO THE REST WITH THESE FANTASTIC ELECTRIC CARS THAT ARE BEING DESIGNED, MADE, BUILT RIGHT HERE IN AMERICA. THIS ALSO GOES HAND IN HAND WITH OTHER KIND OF RELATED POLICY. HOUSING, FOR EXAMPLE, OBVIOUSLY A DIFFERENT U.S. DEPARTMENT HANDLES THAT, BUT TRANSIT-ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT, MAKING SURE THE WAYS OUR CITIES AND COMMUNITIES GROW IS COMPATIBLE WITH GIVING PEOPLE MORE OPTIONS FOR HOW TO GET AROUND. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE CLOSELY CONNECTED FOR A BETTER VISION FOR ACCESS TO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. LOOK, CARS ARE A BIG PART OF THE COMMUNITY I GREW UP IN, WHICH WAS LARGELY CREATED AS AN AUTO MANUFACTURING TOWN AND WILL ALWAYS BE AN IMPORTANT PART OF AMERICAN LIFE, BUT WE NEED TO HAVE ALTERNATIVES TO CARS AS WELL, FROM BICYCLES TO TRAINS AND MAKING SURE ALL OF THESE THINGS TOGETHER MAKE SENSE FOR AMERICANS AND OUR CLIMATE. >> THE LAST TIME AMERICA HAD A REALLY GREAT INFRASTRUCTURE BILL WAS DURING THE EISENHOWER YEARS WHEN WE DID THE INTERSTATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM. BUT IT WAS SO FOCUSED. I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN READING ABOUT ROBERT MOSES AND THINGS, BUT SO FOCUSED ON THE AUTOMOBILE. WHAT MISTAKES DO YOU THINK WERE MADE THERE THAT WE NOW CAN REMEDY? >> THOSE POLICIES REALLY REVOLVED AROUND THE CAR, AS YOU SAY. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THE POLICIES REVOLVE AROUND HUMAN BEINGS, WHO CAN BE IN A CAR OR A BICYCLE OR A WHEELCHAIR OR A TRAIN. ALL OF THESE THINGS HAVE TO BE SUPPORTED IN AN INTEGRATED WAY. I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. THIS IS THE LIKES OF A PROGRAM WE HAVEN'T SEEN SINCE PRESIDENT EISENHOWER IMPLEMENTED THE HIGHWAY PLAN. THIS IS MAYBE THE FOURTH MOMENT FOR A TRANSFORMATIONAL MOMENT IN INFRASTRUCTURE. THE MOST RECENT ONE WAS EISENHOWER. YOU COULD GO BACK ABOUT A CENTURY BEFORE THAT TO THE LINCOLN ERA AND THE RAILROAD. OR YOU COULD GO BACK A COUPLE OF GENERATIONS BEFORE THAT TO LOOK AT HOW THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE ERIE CANAL WASN'T JUST ABOUT MOVING GOODS ON WATER. IT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ACTUALLY MADE THE UNITED STATES ONE COUNTRY. WE'VE GOT TO HAVE THAT SAME LEVEL OF AMBITION NOW, BECAUSE I BELIEVE WITH THE MOMENT AND THE APPETITE AND NEED WE HAVE, IT COMES ALONG ROUGHLY EVERY 50 TO 100 YEARS. SHAME ON US IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I CAN TELL YOU OUR MAIN COMPETITORS, NOTABLY CHINA, ARE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND WE RISK BEING LEFT BEHIND. >> EACH OF THE WAVES WE TALKED ABOUT HAD SOME SIGNATURE TO IT, WHETHER IT BE THE GREAT RAIL CONNECTIONS OR THE INTERSTATE HIGHWAYS. DO YOU THINK YOUR INFRASTRUCTURE BILL AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S BILL IS GOING TO HAVE SOME BIG SIGNATURE DEFINING CHARACTERISTIC, OR WILL IT MORE PROPERLY JUST BE A COLLECTION OF MANY DIFFERENT THINGS? >> THIS ONE WILL NEED TO BE A LITTLE MORE SPREAD OUT. ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS WHY, WE'VE GOT ABOUT A TRILLION DOLLAR BACKLOG JUST IN MAINTAINING WHAT WE'VE ALREADY GOT. IT'S NOT AS GLAMOROUS AS BUILDING SOMETHING NEW, BUT THE TRUTH IS WE'VE GOT TO FIX THE ROADS AND IMPROVE THE BRIDGES THAT WE HAVE. AND THERE ARE SOME PLACES WHERE WE MAY EVEN NEED TO REDUCE A LITTLE BIT, AREAS WHERE THERE'S MORE ASPHALT THAN WE NEED AND SOME MAYOR -- AND I KNOW HOW THIS FEELS -- NEEDS TO PAVE AND PLOW AND MAINTAIN IT WHEN IT'S NO LONGER MEETING ITS ORIGINAL PURPOSE. IT WILL BE A TRANSPORTATION NETWORK THAT WORKS ACROSS EVERY MODE AND EVERY KIND OF COMMUNITY, RURAL AND URBAN. THAT MEANS PAYING ATTENTION TO THE HISTORY, SOMETIMES THE DARK HISTORY OF THE PAST WHERE HIGHWAYS WENT THROUGH OFTEN BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS, SOMETIMES DESTROYING THEM AND WHERE OTHER COMMUNITIES AND NEIGHBORHOODS WERE LEFT OUT ENTIRELY. >> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HIGHWAYS BEING BUILT IN THE PAST THAT DESTROYED THRIVING BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS, I CAN LOOK ABOUT SEVEN BLOCKS FROM HERE AND CLAIBORNE AVENUE WAS THRIVING UNTIL AN EXPRESSWAY WAS BUILT ON TOP OF IT. DO YOU THINK THERE SHOULD BE MONEY TO TAKE SOME OF THESE THINGS DOWN? >> I DO. I THINK WE OUGHT TO HAVE FUNDING SPECIFICALLY COMMITTED TO REVERSING SOME OF THE HARMS IN THE PAST. IT'S NOT JUST A BACKWARD LOOKING PROJECT. IF WE MAKE THESE INVESTMENTS IN THE RIGHT WAY, WE'RE ALSO CREATING THRIVING COMMUNITIES FOR THE FUTURE. IF WE DO IT RIGHT, IT WILL PAY DIVIDENDS. THERE IS A LOT OF HARD-NOSED ECONOMIC ANALYSIS TELLING US THAT THE COST OF RACIAL INEQUITY TO THIS COUNTRY BRINGS THE ENTIRE COUNTRY DOWN, HOLDS THE ENTIRE COUNTRY BACK. THESE ARE INVESTMENTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE TO THE BENEFIT OF U.S. ECONOMIC STRENGTH WRIT LARGE, AS WELL AS REPRESENTING A MEASURE OF JUSTICE AND EQUITY TO COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN HARMED. >> GIVE ME A GOOD EXAMPLE OF AN EQUITY-DRIVEN PUBLIC OR TRANSPORTATION DECISION YOU >> WELL, A GOOD EXAMPLE IS ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT YOU DESCRIBED. SO IF YOU HAVE A COMMUNITY WHERE A HIGHWAY WAS SENT RIGHT THROUGH A NEIGHBORHOOD, OFTEN A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THERE WERE MINORITYIZED RESIDENTS WHO CONSIDERED LITERALLY THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE, SOMETIMES THAT HIGHWAY STILL NEEDS TO HAPPEN, BUT IT OUGHT TO BE UNDERGROUND. WHEN YOU ACTUALLY MOVE IT UNDERGROUND, YOU CAN CREATE NEW LAND, THAT SCARCEST THING THAT YOU CAN'T GET ANY MORE OF, ONLY LESS, AND MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT HOW THAT LAND CAN BE USED FOR A COMMUNITY. THE MAYOR OF MT. VERNON, NEW YORK, LET ME KNOW IN THAT COMMUNITY AT CERTAIN TIMES OF DAY RESIDENTS FIND IT EASIER TO GET DOWN TO MANHATTAN THAN TO GET ACROSS TOWN TO A GROCERY STORE BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT COMMUNITY HAS BEEN SLICED UP THROUGH INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS IN THE PAST. ARE THERE WAYS WE CAN FIX THAT? THESE ARE THE KIND OF INVESTMENTS I'M EXCITED ABOUT. AND ONE MORE THING, WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE THE BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE CREATED WITH INFRASTRUCTURE SPENDING IN TERMS OF WHO OWNS THE BUSINESSES, ESPECIALLY SMALL BUSINESSES THAT GET THESE CONTRACTS AND WHO'S WORKING ON THE PROJECTS, REFLECT AMERICA. THERE'S A LOT OF CONVERSATION AROUND BUY AMERICA. THERE ALSO NEEDS TO BE A LOT OF CONVERSATION AROUND THINGS LIKE LOCAL HIRE. IT WON'T BE EASY BECAUSE WE'VE GOT TO BUILD UP A BUSINESS BASE TO DO THIS. BUT SHAME ON US IF WE ALLOW A LOT OF RESOURCES TO BE SPENT ONCE AGAIN AND HAVE THEM NOT GO TO BUSINESSES THAT REFLECT THE COMMUNITIES WHERE THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING. >> IN ADDITION TO LOOKING AT THE NEW TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE BILL THROUGH AN EQUITY LENS, YOU SAY YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT CLUE A CLIMATE LENS. GIVE ME SOME EXAMPLES IN WHICH PEOPLE MAY NOT UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAN DO THINGS THAT WILL HAVE SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON CLIMATE CHANGE, WOULD THAT INCLUDE THINGS LIKE NEXT GENERATION AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL OR MOVING AWAY FROM CARS TO TRANSIT? >> YEAH. THERE'S A HUGE OPPORTUNITY HERE. IT STARTS WITH THIS. LOOK ACROSS THE U.S. ECONOMY. THE SECTOR THAT CONTRIBUTES THE MOST GREENHOUSE GASSES IS TRANSPORTATION. NOW, THAT ALSO MEANS TRANSPORTATION STAND TO BE THE BIGGEST PART OF THE SOLUTION. WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT ELECTRIC CARS. THAT'S ONE BIG PART OF IT. WE'VE GOT TO HELP MAKE SURE THEY'RE ADOPTED. ALSO HAVING ALTERNATIVES TO CARS. THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO HAVE GOOD TRANSIT OPTIONS. THIS IS NOT JUST A BIG CITY OR BLUE STATE THING. SMALLER COMMUNITIES CAN BENEFIT ENORMOUSLY FROM HAVING QUALITY TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS LIKE GOOD BUSES OR BUS RAPID TRANSIT. EVEN JUST MAKING COMMUNITIES MORE BIKE FRIENDLY CREATES A GREENER AND HEALTHIER WAY FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE TO GET TO WORK AND GET TO WHERE THEY NEED TO BE. THERE ARE A LOT OF THESE THINGS WE NEED TO DO RIGHT NOW BEFORE YOU EVEN GET INTO THE MORE FUTURISTIC POSSIBILITIES, WHAT HIGH SPEED RAIL WOULD REALLY MEAN TO OUR CLIMATE FUTURE IN THIS COUNTRY, SUSTAINABLE AVIATION, FUEL SOMETHING THAT'S IN ITS INFANCY BUT SHOWS A LOT OF PROMISE. AND AS YOU MENTIONED NEXT GENERATION TRAFFIC CONTROL MEANS AIRPLANES ARE IN THE AIR LESS LONG, YOU HAVE SHORTER HANG TIMES, SO TO SPEAK, WHILE THESE ROUTES ARE BEING FLOWN BECAUSE YOU CAN BETTER OPTIMIZE THE WAY THE PLANES MOVE AROUND. WE THINK THERE'S A 10 OR 15% OPPORTUNITY TO REDUCE FUEL CONSUMPTION WITH JUST THAT ONE CHANGE. I'M MAKING IT SOUND EASY. A LOT GOES INTO CHANGING THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEM IN ALL ITS COMPLEXITY. BUT WE NEED A NET ZERO ECONOMY BY 2050. >> AN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL WOULD NOT JUST BE ABOUT TRANSPORTATION, OF COURSE. WE HAVE A LOT OF CRUMBLING INFRASTRUCTURE. THE MAYOR OF JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI, IS COMING ONTO TALK ABOUT THE WATER PROBLEM IN JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI. HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL INTEGRATES AND IS WHOWHOLISTIC? >> THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT BECAUSE WE'RE ALSO ADAPTING TO THE FACT THAT THE RIGHT ANSWER ON AN INFRASTRUCTURE CHOICE MIGHT CHANGE, GIVEN THE FACT THAT WATER LEVELS ARE RISING. THE TRUTH IS NOT ALL OF THIS HAS TO GET SORTED OUT IN WASHINGTON IN THIS BUILDING. COMMUNITIES CAN DO A GREAT JOB OF PLANNING IN AN INTEGRATED WAY FOR THEIR FUTURE. WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE WE SUPPORT AND AWARD AND ENCOURAGE THESE PLANS. AND WE'RE DOING IT RIGHT NOW. I SIGNED OFF RECENTLY ON A ROUND OF GRANTS CALLED INFRA, ABOUT $889 MILLION AVAILABLE TO COMMUNITIES AND STATES WORKING TO IMPROVE THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE. FOR THE FIRST TIME WE EXPLICITLY INCLUDED CONSIDERATIONS LIKE CLIMATE AND RACIAL EQUITY TO ENCOURAGE COMMUNITIES TO COME BACK TO US WITH A PLAN THAT REALLY EXPLAINS HOW EVERYTHING THEY'RE SEEKING TO DO FITS TOGETHER. YES, IT'S ROADS AND BRIDGES. IT'S ALSO PORTS AND WATERWAYS. THE NATIONAL AIR SPACE IS ALSO A PIECE OF INFRASTRUCTURE EVEN THOUGH YOU CAN'T TOUCH IT IN THE SAME WAY AS A BRIDGE. INCREASINGLY, DIGITAL INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS TO BE A PART OF THAT TOO. >> INFRASTRUCTURE BILLS USED TO BE VERY BIPARTISAN BECAUSE THERE WAS A ROAD FOR EVERYBODY OR BRIDGE FOR EVERYBODY OR NEW AIRPORT FACILITY. PEOPLE ARE THINKING THIS MAY BE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BREAK THE FEVER OF THE HYPERPARTISANSHIP WE HAVE IN WASHINGTON AND MAKE THIS BILL TRULY BIPARTISAN. HOW MANY CONVERSATIONS ARE YOU HAVING WITH THE OTHER PARTY AND HOW OPTIMISTIC ARE YOU THAT THERE MIGHT ACTUALLY BE REPUBLICANS THAT SAY LET ME HELP WRITE AND SUPPORT THIS BILL? >> I'VE HAD LOTS OF CONVERSATIONS WITH REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC SENATORS AND HOUSE MEMBERS. WE'VE HAD TWO MEETINGS NOW LED BY THE PRESIDENT IN THE OVAL OFFICE WITH MEMBERS OF BOTH PARTIES FROM THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE RESPECTIVELY. WHAT I FIND IS THAT THAT APPETITE REALLY IS THERE. JUST LIKE I FIND IT AMONG MY FORMER MAYORAL COLLEAGUES OF BOTH PARTIES, THERE IS A SINCERE DESIRE TO GET THINGS DONE. I'M NOT NAIVE. JUST BECAUSE THERE IS A SINCERE DESIRE DOESN'T MEAN IT WILL HAPPEN, NOT IN TODAY'S WASHINGTON. IF THERE IS ANYTHING THAT STILL CAN BE DONE ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS IN THIS TOWN, I BELIEVE IT'S INFRASTRUCTURE. >> THE COVID RELIEF BILL PASSED WITHOUT ANY REPUBLICAN SUPPORT. CAN YOU ACCOMPLISH YOUR GOALS WITHOUT GETTING A FEW REPUBLICAN VOTES? >> AGAIN, I THINK THAT THERE IS SINCERE BIPARTISAN INTEREST IN DOING THIS. WE WOULD MUCH RATHER DO THIS ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS. NOW, WHEN THE VAST MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ACROSS AMERICA WANT TO DO SOMETHING, THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THAT'S BIPARTISAN HERE IN WASHINGTON IN THE END IS UP TO REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS. THEY'VE GOT TO DECIDE WHETHER TO VOTE WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND WE'VE GOT TO DECIDE HOW TO PUT TOGETHER A PACKAGE THAT CAN EARN THAT VOTE. I'M OPTIMISTIC ABOUT DOING IT, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE'VE GOT TO GET SOMETHING DONE. >> HOW DO YOU MAKE PEOPLE FEEL COMFORTABLE THAT WE CAN PAY FOR THAT? >> OFTEN THE QUESTION OF HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR THAT IS USED TO END A CONVERSATION. I THINK IT'S THE BEGINNING OF A CONVERSATION, BECAUSE ON ONE LEVEL IT'S ACTUALLY RELATIVELY SIMPLE. I DON'T MEAN TO TO SAY EASY. WHEN I SAY SIMPLE, I MEAN THERE ARE BASICALLY THREE THINGS YOU CAN DO. YOU CAN DO USER FEES AND THINGS LIKE THE GAS TAX THAT PAY FOR ROADS BASED ON HOW MUCH YOU DRIVE. THINGS LIKE TAXES AND COLLECTING TAXES IS OBVIOUSLY A CLASSIC WAY OF HOW GOVERNMENTS PAY FOR THE THINGS THEY DO. OR YOU'RE BORROWING AGAINST FUTURE FEES AND TAXES. IT BASICALLY COMES DOWN TO WHATEVER COMBINATION OF ONE OR MORE OF THOSE THREE THINGS, FEES, TAXES AND BORROWING, WE'RE WILLING TO DO. HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS. RETURN ON INVESTMENT FROM INFRASTRUCTURE SPENDING IS INCREDIBLY ROBUST, ESPECIALLY NOW WITH HISTORICALLY LOW INTEREST RATES. SO WHATEVER COMBINATION OF THOSE FUNDING SOURCES CONGRESS IS GOING TO PUT UP WILL YIELD THINGS WE ABSOLUTELY NEED AS A COUNTRY. I ALSO THINK ARE GENERATIONALLY IMPORTANT. VERY OFTEN A HESITANCY TO SPEND IS EXPRESSED IN THE RHETORIC OF WE DON'T WANT OUR KIDS TO HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS. I THINK ON SOME LEVEL THAT'S A RESPONSIBLE WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT. BUT WE ALSO DON'T WANT A FUTURE GENERATION TO HAVE TO PICK UP THE PIECES OF A FAILURE TO INVEST IN AMERICAN INFRASTRUCTURE. >> MR. SECRETARY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US. >> THANK YOU. GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.