Amanpour and Company

THE LINES THAT DIVIDE COUNTRIES ARE ALSO POWERFUL IN DIVIDING SOCIETY FROM WITHIN. AS FOR EXAMPLE RACISM CARVES ITS OWN BOUNDARIES. A VICTIM OF RACIAL PROFILING, THE KOREAN IMMIGRANT CHO SU LEE WAS SENTENCED TO LIFE IN PRISON FOR A SAN FRANCISCO MURDER HE DID NOT COMMIT. IN 1970s AMERICA HIS CASE INSPIRED A GRASS ROOTS SOCIAL JUSTICE MOVEMENT WITHIN THE ASIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY NOW A DOCUMENTARY FREE SOO CHU LEE TRACES HIS STORY AND WHAT LED TO HIS RELEASE. WE TALKED ABOUT THE LIFE AND LEGACY OF LEE. >> THANKS. THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. FOR PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT HAVE WATCHED THE DOCUMENTARY WHO IS HE? >> HE WAS A KOREAN IMMIGRANT WRONGLY CONVICTED OF A CHINA TOWN GANG MURDER IN SAN FRANCISCO IN THE 1970s AND THE CASE GETS PICKED UP BY A KOREAN AMERICAN JOURNALIST WRITING FOR AN AMERICAN NEWSPAPER WHO INVESTIGATES AND WRITES A SERIES OF STORIES THAT HELP TRIGGER A LANDMARK SOCIAL JUSTICE MOVEMENT TO FREE CHO SU LEE. SO THE STORY TELLS THAT STORY OF HIS CONVICTION, HIS FIGHT FOR HIS RELEASE BUT ALSO WHAT HAPPENS AFTER HIS RELEASE. UNFORTUNATELY IT IS NOT A FAIRY TALE ENDING. >> LET'S START AT THE BEGINNING IF WE CAN. HOW DID HE GROW UP? WHAT WAS HIS LIFE LIKE? >> HE WAS A CHILD OF THE KOREAN WAR BORN DURING THE KOREAN WAR ACTUALLY ON THE DAY THAT WOULD BECOME KOREAN LIBERATION DAY AUGUST 15th IN A BROKEN HOME. AND HIS MOTHER MARRIED A GI AND CAME TO THE UNITED STATES. HE WOULD JOIN HER ONCE HE WAS 12. AFTER GROWING UP IN DIRE POVERTY IN KOREA, IN SOUTH KOREA. BUT ONCE HE CAME TO THE UNITED STATES IT WASN'T QUITE THE AMERICAN DREAM THAT HE HAD BEEN HOPING FOR. HE HAD BEEN HOPING TO COME AND BE ABLE TO WORK AND SAVE MONEY AND SEND IT BACK TO HIS AUNT AND UNCLE IN KOREA BUT INSTEAD HE MET A SERIES OF OBSTACLES THAT JUST MADE HIS LIFE HERE VERY, VERY DIFFICULT. HE WAS BULLIED, SEVERELY IN SCHOOL. HE WAS -- HE ACTUALLY SORT OF GOT INTO A FIGHT EARLY ON. HE WAS TAKEN TO THE PRINCIPAL, TO THE VICE PRINCIPAL. AN ALTERCATION ENSUED BETWEEN HIM AND THE VICE PRINCIPAL AND HE WAS CHARGED WITH BATTERY AS A CHILD. AS A MINOR. THAT SORT OF STARTED HIM ON HIS COURSE THROUGH THE SCHOOL TO PRISON PIPELINE THAT SORT OF WAS REALLY THE BEGINNING OF KIND OF THE DIFFICULTIES THAT HE HAD IN AMERICA THAT IN SOME WAYS CULMINATED WITH HIS ARREST IN 1973 FOR THIS MURDER. >> ONE NIGHT THE MANAGER SHOWED ME A GUN. IT WAS THE FIRST TIME I EVER HELD A GUN BEFORE. I ASKED IF I COULD BORROW IT. BACK IN MY PLACE I WAS COCKING IT BACK AND FORTH MESSING AROUND WITH IT. AND ACCIDENTALLY SHOT THE WALL. FIVE DAYS LATER I WAS ARRESTED. WHEN TOLD ME IT WAS MURDER I COULDN'T BELIEVE WHAT THEY WERE SAYING. >> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE MURDER AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING IT. YOU GO INTO THE KIND OF INITIAL POLICE REPORTS. WHAT WAS KIND OF AT THE CORE? WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE CONVICTION IN THE FIRST PLACE? THE REASON THE POLICE FOCUSED ON HIM WAS THEY FOUND A REPORT OF A GUN ACCIDENT HE WAS INVOLVED IN A COUPLE DAYS PRIOR TO THE MURDER AND SO THEY DID DO A BALLISTICS REPORT AND BASICALLY THAT INCIDENT WAS ABOUT CHOL SOO LEE ACCIDENTALLY FIRING HIS GUN IN HIS ROOM AND THE POLICE CAME AND RECOVERED THE BULLETS. NOBODY WAS HURT BUT IT WAS LODGED INTO THE WALL. ONCE THE POLICE LOOKED AT BALLISTICS TESTS LOOKING AT THAT BULLET AND THE BULLET USED IN THE MURDER THEY ACTUALLY SAID IT WAS A MATCH. LATER IT WAS DISCOVERED IT WAS NOT BUT THAT IS WHAT SET THEM ON THE COURSE OF FOCUSING ON HIM. WHEN THEY GOT TO THE MURDER TRIAL THEY ALREADY DISCOVERED THAT WAS A MISTAKE AND HE WAS CONVICTED NOT ON MATERIAL EVIDENCE BUT THE WITNESS ACCOUNTS OF THREE WHITE TOURISTS WHO SAW THE KILLER FOR MERE SECONDS FROM QUITE A DISTANCE AWAY. YOU KNOW, IN OUR FILM YOU'LL SEE THAT EVEN DURING THE MURDER TRIAL IT IS QUITE ASTOUNDING BECAUSE AT ONE POINT THE ARRESTING POLICE OFFICER POINTS TO CHOL SOO LEE AND SAYS YES THAT IS THE MAN I ARRESTED BUT HE SAYS THAT CHINESE MAN SITTING THERE. AND EVEN CHOL SOO'S COURT APPOINTED ATTORNEY DID NOT CORRECT THAT FOR THE RECORD AND SAY HE IS ACTUALLY KOREAN AND NOT CHINESE. SO THERE WAS SOME KIND OF RACIAL PROFILING THAT SEEMED QUITE EVIDENT IN THIS CASE. YOU KNOW, KW LEE THE JOURNALIST WHO DID THE INVESTIGATION ON THIS CASE EVEN MADE NOTE OF NOW WHEN HE TALKED TO PEOPLE ON THE GROUND IN CHINA TOWN, MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY KNEW THAT CHOL SOO DIDN'T COMMIT THIS MURDER AND KNEW WHO THE REAL KILLER WAS AND ALSO KNEW A CHINA TOWN GANG WOULD NOT HAVE HIRED CHOL SOO >> AT THE TIME OF HIS INITIAL INCARCERATION, IT WASN'T AS BIG A STORY AS IT BECAME AFTER A SINGLE JOURNALIST STARTED TO INVESTIGATE INTO THIS. TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE ROLE THAT KW LEE PLAYED AS A JOURNALIST AND THEN REALLY AS SOMEONE IN CHOL SOO LEE'S LIFE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. HE WAS ALREADY FOUR YEARS INTO HIS LIFE SENTENCE BY THE TIME KW LEE STUMBLED UPON THE CASE. AND HEARD ABOUT THE CASE FROM A SOCIAL WORKER WHO JUST SAID IN PASSING IT IS SO SAD. THERE IS THIS YOUNG MAN AND I THINK HE WAS RAILROADED FOR THIS MURDER. AND SO K.W. LEE WAS SURPRISED TO HEAR ABOUT THIS KOREAN AMERICAN WHO HAD BEEN CONVICTED BY A JURY OF A CHINA TOWN GANG MURDER SO HE LOOKED INTO THE CASE AND WAS SHOCKED THAT HE WAS ALREADY FINDING EVIDENCE THAT SEEMED TO REALLY POKE HOLES IN THE POLICE AND SAN FRANCISCO DA'S INVESTIGATION AND PROSECUTION OF CHOL SOO LEE. HE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS WORTH NOTING HE WORKED FOR A SACRAMENT NEWSPAPER CALLED THE SACRAMENTO UNION AND WORKED SIX MONTHS LOOKING INTO THIS CASE ON HIS OWN TIME AND WAS SHOCKED BY WHAT HE DISCOVERED. K.W. TOLD US THAT ACTUALLY THIS WAS LIKE THE FIRST TIME IN HIS LONG DECADES LONG CAREER AS A REPORTER WHERE HE DID A STORY ABOUT A KOREAN IMMIGRANT. AND HE FELT A REAL CONNECTION EVEN AFTER, YOU KNOW, HE WROTE A TOTAL OF ABOUT A HUNDRED STORIES ON THE CHOL SOO LEE CASE. >> IT IS NOT A SIMPLE NARRATIVE OF AN INNOCENT MAN IS BEHIND BARS BECAUSE WHILE CHOL SOO LEE IS IN PRISON HE IS ACCUSED OF A MURDER WITHIN THE WALLS. HOW DID K.W. LEE, I GUESS, THE MOVEMENT THAT SPRUNG UP AROUND CHOL SOO DEAL WITH THAT? >> YOU'RE RIGHT. IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT THING TO TRY AND CONVINCE FOLKS OF THE INNOCENCE OF THIS MAN WHEN HE HAD TO KILL IN SELF-DEFENSE WHILE BEHIND BARS. ANOTHER SAD ASPECT OF THE TIMING OF HIS LIFE WAS THERE WAS TREMENDOUS VIOLENCE IN THE CALIFORNIA PRISON SYSTEM AT THAT TIME AND THAT IS WHERE CHOL SOO ENDED UP AND GOT CAUGHT UP IN THIS SITUATION. BUT TO SOME LEVEL IT IS A CREDIT TO TWO THINGS. ONE TO THE ORGANIZATIONAL ABILITIES OF THE KOREAN IMMIGRANTS AT THE TIME. THERE WAS A COMMUNITY OF KOREAN IMMIGRANTS THAT K.W. WAS A PART OF AND THAT FORMED AN ORGANIZATIONAL BACKGROUND FOR A LOT OF THEIR EFFORTS AND THE OTHER IS CREDIT TO K.W.'S ABILITY AND THE WAY HIS STORIES WERE ABLE TO FRAME CHOL SOO'S SIDE INTO SOMETHING BROADLY LEGIBLE TO THE POPULATION AT THE TIME. >> LEONARD, WHAT IS TO BE GAINED BY ALL THE SUPPORT? ANYTHING? >> YOU MAKE IT SOUND -- THESE PEOPLE CAME BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO COME SO THEY ARE DOING IT BECAUSE THEY FEEL IT IS RIGHT. >> FREE CHOL SOO LEE!

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>> THIS DIDN'T AUTOMATICALLY TURN INTO, ALL RIGHT, LET'S OPEN THE GATES AND LET HIM OUT. THIS WAS A LONG PROCESS. >> THIS WAS A LONG PROCESS. YOU KNOW, CHOL SOO WAS IN PRISON FOR A TOTAL OF TEN YEARS. THE MOVEMENT LASTED SIX YEARS. SO SUSTAINED EFFORT OF THIS VERY UNIQUE COMBINATION OF PEOPLE AS EUGENE MENTIONED, KOREAN IMMIGRANTS WORKING ALONGSIDE THIRD GENERATION ASIAN AMERICAN YOUNG STUDENT ACTIVISTS, MANY OF THEM, BUT WORKING FOR SIX LONG YEARS TO FREE CHOL SOO LEE. AND HAVING TO BASICALLY, THEY RAISED MONEY THROUGH A LOT OF $5, $10 DONATIONS IN ORDER TO HIRE GOOD DEFENSE ATTORNEYS FOR CHOL SOO LEE AND A GOOD DEFENSE INVESTIGATOR. AND THAT IS HOW A LOT OF THIS EVIDENCE OR EVEN A NEW WITNESS WAS UNCOVERED. BUT IT WAS, YOU KNOW, I THINK IF YOU ASK ANY LAWYER TO OVERTURN TWO MURDER CONVICTIONS, IT IS UNHEARD OF IN OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. AND SO IN MANY WAYS, EXTRAORDINARY MOVEMENT, THEY SORT OF DID THE IMPOSSIBLE. >> CHOL SOO WAS IN PRISON FOR TEN YEARS. AFTER HE GOT OUT, OR AFTER HE WAS RELEASED, HIS LIFE WAS BY NO MEANS SMOOTH SAILING. TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE CHALLENGES HE FACED. >> I MEAN, I DO WANT TO FOREGROUND EVERYTHING HE HAD BEEN THROUGH IN HIS LIFE BEFORE THAT. AGES 20 THROUGH 30 HE WAS IN PRISON FOR MURDER HE DIDN'T COMMIT. WE DON'T GET INTO IT MUCH IN THE FILM BUT HE SPENT MUCH OF THAT TIME IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT AS WELL WHICH OF COURSE INTENSIFIES THAT EXPERIENCE. AND SO HE HAS SPENT HIS ENTIRE ADULT LIFE BEHIND BARS ESSENTIALLY AND DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO BE FUNCTIONING ON THE OUTSIDE, OUTSIDE OF AN INSTITUTIONAL CONTEXT. THERE ARE THE DEMONS OF INSTITUTIONALIZATION THAT OF COURSE -- THERE WAS EVERYTHING HE WENT THROUGH IN HIS CHILDHOOD, AGAIN, GROWING UP AS A CHILD OF WAR IN A BROKEN HOME AND BEING IN THAT SCHOOL TO PRISON PIPELINE THE WAY HE HAD BEEN. SO BEYOND THAT ON TOP OF THAT YOU THROW ON THIS STATURE THAT HE GAINED, YOU KNOW, AND HE SPOKE ON THAT TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. THIS KIND OF ICONIC STATUS WAS NOT SOMETHING HE ASKED FOR. AS HE GRAPPLED WITH THAT IT WORE ON HIM AND HE REALLY STRUGGLED WITH SO MUCH OF IT BUT HE STRUGGLED WITH DISAPPOINTING THE ACTIVISTS SO MUCH BECAUSE WHAT WE WOULD OFTEN TALK ABOUT IS THAT THE ACTIVISTS AND HIS SUPPORTERS OFTEN BECAME SOMETHING OF A SURROGATE FAMILY FOR HIM. THEY REALLY TRIED TO DO WHAT THEY COULD TO HELP SUPPORT HIM. BUT AT THAT TIME, THERE WAS NO SENSE OF WHAT COMING BACK INTO SOCIETY WOULD INVOLVE. THERE WAS NO SENSE OF THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT, AROUND RECIDIVISM THAT WE HAVE A BIT MORE OF NOW. AND SO IN THAT CONTEXT, CHOL SOO FELL INTO ADDICTION AND HIS LIFE KIND OF SPIRALED DOWN IN THE WAY THAT ANYBODY WHO HAS DEALT WITH A FAMILY MEMBER OR LOVED ONE WHO HAS TO STRUGGLE WITH ADDICTION KNOWS ALL TOO WELL HOW THAT CAN GO. >> JULIE, WHY MAKE THIS DOCUMENTARY? >> WELL, THE STORY IS NOT KNOWN AND IT NEEDS TO BE KNOWN. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF HISTORY. NOT JUST ASIAN AMERICAN HISTORY I WOULD ARGUE FOR AMERICAN HISTORY. I HAPPEN TO HAVE GONE TO THE FUNERAL OF CHOL SOO LEE IN 2014. IT WAS ACTUALLY THERE WHERE I FEEL LIKE LOOKING BACK THE SEEDS WERE PROBABLY PLANTED TO MAKE THIS FILM. THE ACTIVISTS WOULD COME TO CHOL SOO'S AID DECADES EARLIER WERE THERE. K.W. LEE WAS THERE. THERE WAS AN EMOTION THAT JUST FELT BEYOND GRIEF FOR SOMEONE THEY HAD LOST AND CARED ABOUT. IT FELT LIKE THERE WAS JUST THIS INTENSE HEAVINESS. I WAS STRUCK BY HOW A COUPLE OF THE ACTIVISTS WERE SAYING CHOL SOO DID MORE FOR THEM THAN THEY DID FOR HIM. JUST DEEP REGRET THAT THEY DIDN'T DO ENOUGH. AND AT ONE POINT K.W. LEE STOOD UP AND HE WAS CLUTCHING THIS BUDDHIST MONK'S WALKING STICK THAT CHOL SOO CARVED FOR HIM AND HE SAID ANGRILY WHY IS THIS STORY STILL UNDERGROUND AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, THIS LANDMARK ASIAN AMERICAN SOCIAL JUSTICE MOVEMENT THAT COALESCED AROUND THIS POOR KOREAN IMMIGRANT STREET KID, OVERTURNED TWO MURDER CONVICTIONS, AND SUCCEEDED IN FREEING HIM FROM PRISON, WHY IS THIS CASE NOT KNOWN? IT IS NOT EVEN TAUGHT IN ASIAN AMERICAN STUDIES IN AMERICAN UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES. AND THAT WAS A DEEP ACHE FOR HIM BECAUSE I THINK HE KNEW HOW SINGULAR THIS STORY WAS AND HOW CONSEQUENTIAL IT COULD BE AND THAT THERE COULD BE A MEANINGFUL LEGACY EVEN TODAY. AND THAT'S WHY WE MADE THE FILM, THIS STORY WAS TOO IMPORTANT TO LET IT STAY BURIED IN HISTORY AND WE JUST HAD TO EXCAVATE IT AND TELL IT WHILE SOME OF THE FIRST-HAND SOURCES WERE STILL ALIVE TO SHARE THE STORY. >> JULIE, WHAT IS IT ABOUT NOW THAT MAKES THIS FILM MORE RELEVANT? WE HAVE JUST LIVED THROUGH OR ARE LIVING THROUGH A PANDEMIC WHERE WE'VE SEEN INCREASED AMOUNTS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST ASIAN AMERICANS. WE JUST RECENTLY HAD SORT OF ANOTHER ANNIVERSARY OF THE MURDER GO BY. WHY IS THIS CONVERSATION IMPORTANT TODAY? >> WE FEEL LIKE OUR FILM ACTUALLY CONNECTS THE DOTS BETWEEN WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW AND OUR HISTORY WHICH IS NOT KNOWN. SOME PEOPLE ARE SURPRISED THAT THERE IS, THAT RACISM AGAINST ASIAN AMERICANS EVEN EXISTS AND IT IS NOT JUST MICRO AGGRESSIONS BUT ACTUALLY RACISM IN THE FORM OF VIOLENCE. WE FEEL LIKE OUR FILM IS CONNECTING TO THIS HISTORY WHERE ACTUALLY THERE IS A LONG HISTORY OF ANTI-ASIAN RACISM INCLUDING VIOLENCE, THAT INCLUDES RACIAL PROFILING AND INJUSTICES WITHIN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. SO WE FEEL LIKE THAT HISTORY IS JUST SO IMPORTANT FOR US TO KNOW IN ORDER FOR IT TO FEED OUR CONSCIOUSNESS AND ALSO HOW IT AFFECTS OUR PERSPECTIVE TODAY. OFTEN TIMES, YOU KNOW, I'LL SAY THAT ASIAN AMERICANS MAYBE DON'T SEE OURSELVES CONNECTED TO ISSUES OF INCARCERATION, POLICING IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, RE-ENTRY. BUT THOSE ARE OUR ISSUES TOO. IF WE KNOW OUR HISTORY WE'LL SEE THOSE CONNECTIONS MORE. WE'LL UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS IMPORTANT ALSO TO CARE ABOUT BLACK LIVES MATTER AND WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES AND OTHER CAUSES. WE CAN SEE THOSE VERY ORGANIC INTERSECTIONS. WE FEEL LIKE OUR FILM COULD HELP PEOPLE DRAW SOME KIND OF INSPIRATION FROM THE GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT CAME TOGETHER AT A TIME I SHOULD NOTE WHEN ASIAN AMERICANS HAD VERY LITTLE POLITICAL POWER. AND, YET, THEY FORMED THIS MOVEMENT AGAINST INCREDIBLE ODDS. THEY FOUGHT AND STOOD UP TO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. THEY ASSERTED THIS VERY IMPORTANT PRINCIPLE, YOU KNOW, THEY COALESCED AROUND NOT SOMEBODY WHO WAS SOME UNDER GRAD AT UC BERKELEY WRONGLY CONVICTED. IT WAS THIS POOR KOREAN IMMIGRANT STREET KID WHO HAD A CRIMINAL RECORD AT THE TIME WHO WAS NO MODEL MINORITY, AND, YET, THEY LOOKED AT HIM AND SAID YOU ARE WORTHY OF OUR TIME AND ATTENTION AND LOVE AND CARE AND WE WILL DEDICATE SIX YEARS OF OUR LIVES TO FREEING YOU FROM PRISON. I THINK THAT IS SUCH A POWERFUL PRINCIPLE AND ACT OF COURAGE, CONVICTION, AND COMPASSION THAT COULD REALLY JUST HAVE SUCH LASTING INSPIRATION TODAY AND IN A WAY, YOU KNOW, EXTEND THE LEGACY OF CHOL SOO LEE IN A WAY I THINK HE WOULD HAVE WANTED TO SEE. >> EUGENE YI AND JULIE HA, THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH. >> THANK YOU.