Amanpour and Company

>>> AND SO, NEXT, WE DO GO TO THE BLACK EXPERIENCE IN MODERN-DAY BRITAIN.

"QUEENIE" IS A NEW TV SERIES ABOUT A WOMAN NAVIGATING LONDON LIFE.

STRUGGLING WITH PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS TO HER CULTURAL IDENTITY.

TAKE A LOOK.

>> I'M LOUD.

SASSY, CONFRONTATIONAL.

DIDN'T NOT BE A STRONG BLACK WOMAN.

A GIRL'S VULNERABLE.

IS THIS YOU?

I CAN'T BREATHE.

I'M SO FAR FROM WHERE I WAS -- I DON'T EVEN RECOGNIZE MYSELF.

>> I'VE SEEN YOU CONQUER THINGS THAT ARE MUCH HARDER.

>> THE SERIES IS BASED ON THE NOVEL BY CANDICE CARTY-WILLIAMS, AND SHE'S JOINING MICHEL MARTIN NOW TO TALK ABOUT HOW THE SHOW AIMS TO DEFY RACIAL STEREOTYPES.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

CANDICE CARTY-WILLIAMS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOU HAVE DESCRIBED "QUEENIE" AS THE BLACK BRIDGET JONES.

FOR PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, JUST SAY MORE ABOUT THAT, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> SO, WHEN I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE BOOK, I REALLY WANTED PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT THE SCALE OF WHAT THE BOOK SHOULD BE, AND SO, WHERE THIS ISN'T BRIDGET JONES, OBVIOUSLY, I REALLY WANTED PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE SCALE OF THIS BOOK SHOULD BE THE BRIDGET JONES GIRL, AND IT SHOULD BE IN EVERY HOUSEHOLD.

>> PEOPLE LOVE HER SO MUCH.

SHE'S SO -- SHE'S SO REAL, SHE'S REGULAR, SHE'S MESSY, SHE'S A LITTLE MESSY.

SHE'S VERY SMART.

I -- THROW SOME ADJECTIVES OUT, TELL US ABOUT HER.

WHO IS SHE?

>> SHE'S SOMEONE WHO IS -- SHE'S OFTEN DESCRIBED AS A PROBLEMATIC FAVE, WHICH I REALLY LIKE.

SHE'S FUNNY AND SHE'S SMART AND SHE'S QUESTIONING AND SHE'S HEARTBROKEN, AND SHE IS KIND AND SHE IS INQUISITIVE AND SHE IS SOMEONE WHO IS TRYING TO BE STRONG, I WOULD SAY.

>> HOW DID SHE COME TO YOU, AS A CHARACTER?

>> SO, I KNEW THAT I WANTED TO WRITE A BLACK WOMAN WHO WAS TRYING TO BREAK FREE OF THE STRONG BLACK WOMAN TROPE, AND I WAS LIKE, THAT'S PROBABLY QUITE EASY TO DO, SHE JUST HAS TO REJECT EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN PUT ONTO ME AND LIKE ME.

AND WHEN I WAS ABOUT TO WRITE HER, SO, I WENT TO A WRITER'S RETREAT HOSTED BANE AUTHOR, AND ON THE WAY THERE, I WAS THINKING ABOUT WRITING SOMETHING, AND SHE CAME TO ME IN SORT OF BUILTS AND PIECES AND STORIES I'D HEARD, THINGS I'D SEEN OR THINGS THAT MY FRIENDS HAD TOLD ME OR THINGS I'VE SEEN ON THE INTERNET, OR, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A COUPLE OF EXPERIENCES WITH DATING AND THE LIKE, AND WHEN I STARTED WRITING HER, I JUST KIND OF HAD A FULLY FORMED CHARACTER.

AND I JUST HAD TO FOLLOW WHERE SHE TOOK ME.

>> LOOK, SHE'S A SMART, FUNNY, YOU KNOW, SPICY BLACK WOMAN, AND SO ARE YOU, SO, OBVIOUSLY, PEOPLE WANT TO SEE IT AS, YOU KNOW, BIOGRAPHY, AS MEMOIR.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

>> NO, NO, NO, NO.

IT'S SO INTERESTING, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IF I PUT MYSELF -- IF I HAD WRITTEN AND PUT MYSELF IN IT, THEN MAYBE YOU COULD BE, LIKE, IS THAT YOU?

BUT I JUST WANTED TO PRESENT A FICTIONAL CHARACTER TO THE WORLD -- WE MIGHT HAVE THINGS IN COMMON, WE ARE BOTH FROM SOUTH LONDON, WE BOTH HAVE JAMAICAN FAMILY, BUT YOU KNOW, WE DIE VERGE IN A LOT OF WATTS.

AND I THINK ISSA RAE PUT IT BEST, SHE WANTED TO WRITTEN A CHARACTER THAT WAS OUTSIDE ON A FRIDAY NIGHT, BECAUSE SHE WAS INSIDE ON A FRIDAY NIGHT.

I CAN RELATE TO THAT.

>> YOU SAID THIS IN ONE OF THE MANY INTERVIEWS THAT YOU APPROPRIATELY HAVE DONE TO CELEBRATE YOUR WORK, YOU SAID YOU WERE DESPERATE FOR A BLACK WOMAN THAT WASN'T THE SASSY SIDEKICK OR ANGRY GIRLFRIEND, BUT WAS JUST REAL AND HONEST.

SAY MORE ABOUT THAT.

>> YOU KNOW, THE PRESENTATIONS THAT WE HAD OF BLACK WOMEN GROWING UP WERE ALWAYS THAT PERSON, THEY WERE OFTEN THE SASSY BEST FRIEND, THE MAGICAL NEGRO, THEY WERE THE ANGRY GIRLFRIEND, AND I WAS LIKE, OH, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CONFIDENT COLLEAGUE?

AND I MYSELF AM A RELATIVELY SHY PERSON.

I REMEMBER THINKING I WAS NEVER GOOD ENOUGH, BECAUSE I COULD NOT MATCH UP OR BE AS LOUD OR CONFIDENT OR STAND UP FOR MYSELF.

AND I REALIZED ACTUALLY, I AM NOT THOSE THINGS, AND I DID THINK I WOULD BE ALONE IN THOSE THINGS.

SO, I WANTED QUEENIE TO BE A LEAD CHARACTER, I WANTED HER NOT TO BE SOMEONE WHO COMES THROUGH, YOU WANT MORE OF HER.

I WANTED HER TO BE FRONT AND CENTER AND TO BE SURROUNDED BY A CAST OF PEOPLE WHO WERE EQUALLY SMART AND FUN AND INTERESTING AND ENGAGING.

>> SO, QUEENIE, OF COURSE, STARTLED AS A NOVEL, BEST SELLER, AND WAS ADAPT INTO THIS EIGHT-EPISODE SERIES, IT'S CALLED A DRAMA, BUT IT'S MORE OF A DRAMEDY.

I MEAN, THERE'S LOTS OF LAUGHTER, EVEN WHEN SHE'S GETTING A GYNECOLOGICAL EXAM.

I'VE NEVER SEEN A TELEVISION SHOW START WITH THAT CAMERA ANGLE.

>> THINGS I SHOULD HAVE DONE TODAY.

ONE, HAD A WAX.

TWO, NOT HAD ANOTHER DUMB THREE, PREPARED FOR MY PITCH.

HOW LONG IS THIS GOING TO TAKE?

>> I'M AFRAID IT'S GOING TO TAKE AS LONG AS IT NEEDS.

SO, WHAT DO YOU DO?

>> SO, VERY REAL.

AND YOU'RE ALSO THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AND YOU'RE THE SHOW RUNNER, SO, YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF REALLY SHAPE THIS PROJECT.

WHEN YOU WERE ADAPTING THE NOVEL, YOU KNOW IT WAS ALREADY VERY WELL LOVED AND YOU'RE ADAPTING IT FOR THE SCREEN, WHAT WAS YOUR PRIMARY CONSIDERATION?

WHAT WAS FRONT AND CENTER FOR YOU?

>> I THINK BECAUSE I WAS WORKING WITH THREE SETS OF EXECUTIVES, MY THEME WAS PROTECTING QUEENIE, PROTECTING HER WORLD, AND PROTECTING THE POLITICS OF THE SHOW.

AND I'VE ALWAYS -- I ALWAYS WANTED QUEENIE TO BE BOLD AND POLITICAL AND SAY WHAT SHE NEEDED TO SAY.

>> WE FOCUS ON THE BIG NAMES.

BUT YEAH, THANK YOU TO MARY FOR EVERYTHING YOU DID, BUT -- >> WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

>> I JUST MEANT THAT -- IT WAS NICE TO SEE MANY OF THE MAROONS, AND EVEN DON BUTLER.

OH, AND -- I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO BREAK THE TRADITION OF WHAT A BLACK WOMAN HAS ALWAYS BEEN.

ALSO, TO SHIFT THE FOCUS AWAY FOR WHAT SHE DID FOR WHITE PEOPLE.

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY, TRADITION IS PEER PRESSURE FROM DEAD PEOPLE, SO -- >> ALSO, I WANTED TO HAVE THE THROUGH LINE OF HER FAMILY AND THE TRAUMA, AND EVERYTHING THAT SHE'S GONE THROUGH, AND SO, IT WAS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT I COULD MAKE THOSE THINGS HEARD.

AND, YES, A DRAMA WITH QUEENIE, AND IT WASN'T MEANT TO BE SO, I THINK IT ENDS UP BEING FUNNY, BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE TO BE FUNNY IF WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT REALLY DIFFICULT THINGS, WHICH ISN'T NECESSARY, BUT THAT'S DEFINITELY THE PERSON I AM.

I'M SOMEONE THAT, IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S VERY HARD-HITTING, I'M GOING TO SORT OF WRAP IT UP FIRST NICELY, SO YOUR BACK ISN'T UP, YOU KNOW?

>> YOU SAID THAT QUEENIE IS 1,000 TIMES MORE POLITICAL THAN BRIDGET JONES.

AND ONE OF THE WAYS THAT WAS EXPRESSED, YOU SEE HER AT WORK.

SO, TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

>> SO, QUEENIE JOINED "THE DAILY READER," FOR REASONS OF COPYRIGHT, ET CETERA, AND SHE JOINED AS A SOCIAL MEDIA ASSISTANCE, BUT HER PLAN WAS TO SORT OF SNEAK IN AND THEN START WRITING PIECES AND CHANGING THE WORD, AND IN THE NOVEL, SHE'S CONSTANTLY PITCHING ABOUT POLITICAL MATTERS YOU ENVIRONMENTAL MATTERS, BLACK MATTERS, AND SHE'S ALWAYS BEEN SHOT DOWN.

>> THIS IS WHAT I'M AT "THE DAILY READER" TO DO.

I'M GOING TO CHANGE THE WORLD.

BUT NOT TODAY.

>> HEY.

KEEP YOUR HEAD UP.

YOU GOT THIS.

>> THE NEW BOY MAKES ONE GOOD PITCH AND HE'S GIVING MEED A VUS.

>> YOU'RE ALMOST THERE.

BUT MAYBE WE CAN WORK ON YOUR DELIVERY.

>> QUEENIE, COULD I GRAB YOU FOR A SECOND?

>> AND SO, QUEENIE, IN THE WORKPLACE, IS SOMEWHERE WHERE SHE IS, I GUESS, IN THE BIGGEST WAY, SHINING BOTH CULTURES, BECAUSE SHE'S TRIED TO COME INTO THIS SPACE AND TRIED TO MAKE HERSELF HEARD AND TRIED TO CHANGE THE WORLD AND LET EVERYONE KNOW THERE'S STUFF GOING ON IN YOUR OWN BACKWARD THAT YOU'RE NOT SEEING OR THINKING ABOUT, BUT SHE'S CONSTANTLY PUSHED DOWN AND TOLD, JUST STAY IN YOUR LANE, EFFECTIVELY.

AND SHE WAS THE ONLY BLACK PERSON IN THE OFFICE, AS I HAVE OFTEN BEEN MANY TIMES, I THINK EVERY TIME, AND SO, FOR ME WRITING THAT, IT WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW THERE ARE SO MANY BLACK WOMEN, THE ONLY BLACK WOMEN IN THE WORK IF PLACE, AND I ACTUALLY WENT TO SOUTH AFRICA TO TALK ABOUT THIS BOOK, AND LOADS OF WOMEN WERE LIKE, YOU'RE IN SOUTH AFRICA, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE BLACK PEOPLE HERE, BUT I'M STILL THAT PERSON, AND IT REALLY HELPED ME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT FELT LIKE.

AND SO, IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR ME TO CAPTURE THAT AND TO CAPTURE THAT HOSTILITY YOU FEEL WHEN YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, A DOZEN EYES ON YOU THAT ARE KIND OF LIKE, WHY IS SHE HERE?

WHAT DOES SHE WANT TO DO?

SHE'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

>> I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE WILL ENJOY AND FEEL -- JUST REALLY APPRECIATE, WHICH IS THE WAY YOU LIFT UP FRIENDSHIPS, QUEENIE'S FRIENDSHIPS ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO HER.

I JUST WANT YOU TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

HOW DID THIS IDEA COME TO YOU, AND WHY WAS IT SO IMPORTANT?

>> SO, IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR ME IN THIS REALM OF QUEENIE STRUGGLING TWO WORLDS, THE INTERSECTION OF FRIENDSHIP THAT SITS KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE SPACE, AND ACTUALLY, THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW HER FOR WHO SHE IS, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKE, WELL, YOU'RE WORKING WITH ME, OR HAVE FAMILY LIKE, THIS IS WHO YOU NEED TO BE.

AND I REALLY WANTED TO SHOW THE FRIENDS AS SHE'S CHOSEN A SHE HAS GONE THROUGH HER LIFE.

SHE HAS A FRIEND FROM SCHOOL, FROM UNIVERSITY, FROM WORK, AND THEY KIND OF KNOW THE TRUEST SENSE OF HER.

AND THAT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT.

I THINK WITHOUT FRIENDSHIPS, A LOT OF US, YOU KNOW, OUR FRIENDSHIPSIDENTITY.

YOU HAVE CASSANDRA, WHO IS A LITTLE BIT FROSTIER, SHE'S THE PERSON THAT SORT OF TRIES TO STEER QUEENIE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, EVEN THOUGH IT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK, AND YOU HAVE DARCY, WHO IS KIND, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT TOO KIND TO HER, BECAUSE SHE CAN SEE WHAT QUEENIE'S GOING THROUGH, OR HAS GONE THROUGH, BUT I THINK THAT WE SEE OURSELVES THROUGH OUR FRIENDS A LOT OF THE TIME, AND I WANTED QUEENIE TO BE ABLE TO TELL HER PROBLEMS TO HER FRIENDS AND THEN THEY COME BACK WITH THEIR DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF WHAT SHE SHOULD DO AND HOW THEY SEE HER.

>> THE OTHER THING IS THAT SHE'S -- AS WE MEET HER, SHE'S KIND OF NAVIGATING HER RELATIONSHIP WITH HER WHITE BOYFRIEND, TOM.

>> YEAH.

>> AND HIS FAMILY.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS VERY -- IT WAS FUNNY, BUT IT WAS ALSO VERY POIGNANT.

TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE COME INTO THE POINT WHERE QUEENIE AND TOM HAVE BEEN HAVING SOME PROBLEMS AND SHE'S CHALKED IT UP TO, OH, YOU KNOW, I'VE MOVED HOUSE, I'VE JUST GOT ADJUSTED TO LIVING WITH YOU, AND AS WE GET INTO IT, WE RECOGNIZE THAT WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENED IS, HER MOVING HAS DISRUPTED THIS IDEA OF HOME, THAT SHE DOESN'T HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP TO IN HER HEAD.

WE SEE WHAT HOME MEANS TO HER, WHAT RELATIONSHIPS MEAN TO HER, WHAT ABANDONMENT MEANS TO HER, WE START TO UNDERSTAND THAT THINGS HAVE -- SHE'S NOT TELLING HER BOYFRIEND WHO WAS GOING ON, AND HE'S HAD ENOUGH AND HE'S SOMEONE WHO SAYS, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALL GOT STUFF.

>> I SHOULD HAVE HANDLED THAT BETTER.

>> HE SHOULD HAVE HANDLED THAT BETTER.

>> UGH.

GEEZ.

YOU SCARED ME.

>> WHAT'S GOING ON WITH YOU?

>> WHAT YOUR GRAND SAID WASN'T OKAY?

YOU KNOW THAT -- >> AND YOU KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY TO TELL MY GRAN THAT.

>> FINE.

YOU'RE NOT.

THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING -- >> I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THIS.

IT'S LATE -- >> WELL, THERE'S ALWAYS A REASON YOU'RE NOT ON MY SIDE.

>> I CAN'T ALWAYS BE ON YOUR SIDE, BECAUSE I CAN'T ALWAYS BE ANGRY.

>> ALWAYS ANGRY?

>> AND SO THEY GO ON WHAT QUEENIE THINKS IS A BREAK, AND SHE DOES A LOT OF THINGS THAT DISTRACT HER, BUT IN THE BACK OF HER MIND, SHE HAS THIS IDEA OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP RESUMING AND BEING OKAY AGAIN, BUT ACTUALLY, WHAT SHE NEEDS TO THINK ABOUT IS HER RELATIONSHIP TO HERSELF, OTHER THAN ANYONE ELSE, OBVIOUSLY.

>> I THINK PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN RELATIONSHIPS WITH PEOPLE OF A DIFFERENT BACKGROUND WILL RELATE TO SOME OF THESE FRICTIONS.

HIS FAMILY AND SOME OF THE RIDICULOUS THINGS THAT SOMETIMES PEOPLE SAY, YOU KNOW -- >> I HAVE TO ADMIT, THEY WILL BE LOVELY.

COLOR OF MILKY COFFEE.

THEY'LL HAVE YOUR EYES, QUEENIE, GORGEOUS.

THEY'D GET TOM'S LOVELY STRAIGHT NOSE.

>> BUT I THINK YOU'RE ALSO REALLY HONEST ABOUT SOME OF THE STUFF SHE'S BRINGING TO IT.

YOU COULD HAVE SORT OF MADE HER A SAINT, YOU DIDN'T.

I'M CURIOUS ABOUT HER -- HER OWN IMMATURITY.

SHE COULD HAVE FIGURED OUT, LIKE, HOW TO COMMUNICATE BETTER, TO TELL HIM FROM, YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH HER?

SHE DOESN'T.

I WAS REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THAT CHOICE.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK, THE THING IS, QUEENIE'S 25, AND I MEET SO MANY WOMEN WHO WANT HER TO, YOU KNOW, NAVIGATE HER PROBLEMS PROPERLY, THEY WANT HER TO TAKE A BREAK, THEY WANT HER TO GO TO THERAPY, THEY WANT HER TO NOT SLEEP AROUND, AND THEY WANTED TO SORT OF ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS, BUT I'M ALWAYS LIKE, SHE'S 25 YEARS OLD.

AND THAT'S A LOT TO PUT ON A 25-YEAR-OLD'S HEAD.

SHE'S DOING EVERYTHING FOR THE FIRST TIME.

THIS IS HER FIRST RELATIONSHIP.

THIS IS HER FIRST BIG BREAKUP, THIS IS HER FIRST TIME MOVING HOUSE AND LIVING WITH SOMEONE.

THIS IS HER FIRST TIME, YOU KNOW, SLEEPING AROUND WITH PEOPLE.

AND SHE'S MAKING MISTAKES.

AND, YOU KNOW, IF WE MET HER WHEN SHE WAS IN HER 30s, IT WOULD BE A VERY DIFFERENT THING.

SHE WOULD BE KNOWING WHAT TO DO.

SHE WOULD KNOW HOW TO DO IT, WHAT'S BEST FOR HER, BUT IN THIS INSTANCE, I REALLY WANTED TO PAINT HER AS A HUMAN PERSON WHO WE ARE FOLLOWING AS SHE KIND OF FIGURES THINGS OUT FOR THE FIRST TIME, YOU KNOW?

IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT SHE WASN'T SOMEONE WHO HAD ALL THE ANSWERS, BECAUSE THEN WHERE WE WOULD GO, YOU KNOW?

>> I KNOW THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK YOU'VE SAID IN THIS CONVERSATION, AND OTHERS, IS THAT THE WORK ITSELF, CREATING THESE CHARACTERS, PRESENTING THEM IN THEIR FULLNESS, IS ITS OWN MESSAGE.

BUT APART FROM THAT, IS THERE ANY OTHER MESSAGE THAT YOU HOPE PEOPLE WILL DRAW FROM THE NOVEL AND FROM THE SERIES?

>> I THINK ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS ABOUT QUEENIE IS THAT SHE'S TRYING HER BEST.

I DO THINK THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE SAID FOR, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WROTE THIS NOVEL, I WAS TRYING MY BEST.

WHEN I WROTE, YOU JUST TRY YOUR BEST.

AND THAT'S ALL YOU CAN DO.

LIFE WILL THROW THINGS AT YOU, BUT AS LONG AS YOU TRY YOUR BEST, YOU'LL BE OKAY.

>> GOSH, IT'S BEEN A DELIGHT TO SPEAK WITH YOU.

WHAT IS NEXT FOR YOU?

>> A BIG REST IS NEXT FOR ME.

JUST BECAUSE I'VE BEEN WRITING, AS I SAID, EVERY DAY FOR ABOUT EIGHT YEARS, BUT ALSO, WRITING ANOTHER NOVEL, WHICH IS REALLY NICE TO KIND OF GO BACK TO MY ROOTS.

SO, THERE ARE A FEW PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DEVELOP A FEW PROJECTS, SO, I'VE JUST GOT TO FIGURE OUT THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

BUT IT'S BEEN A REALLY GOOD TIME.

JUST KIND OF COMING OUT OF THIS AND SORT OF HAVING TIME FOR MYSELF AGAIN.

YEAH.

BUT I LIKE TO SPEND TIME WITH MY FAMILY, MY FRIENDS, SO, IT'S BEEN NICE TO CATCH UP WITH THEM AND IT'S MY BIRTHDAY SOON, SO, I'M GOING TO SEE EVERYONE.

>> WELL, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY ALMOST BIRTHDAY.

CONGRATULATIONS ON EVERYTHING.

CANDICE CARTY-WILLIAMS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.