Amanpour and Company

>>> NEXT, A VERY DIFFERENT CONVERSATION ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF ART, THE ACCLAIMED DOCUMENTARY "PORCELAIN WAR" HAS REACHED THE OSCAR SHORT LIST.

IT'S ABOUT THE KHARKIV BASED ARTISTS WHO SPECIALIZE IN MAKING DELICATE PORCELAIN FIGURINES, EVEN AMIDST THE RAGING WAR THAT RUSSIA HAS INFLICTED ON THEIR HOMELAND.

THEY KEPT THIS DESPITE ROLLING BLACKOUTS AND TRAINING RECRUITS FOR THE UKRAINIAN FRONT.

IN THIS CONVERSATION WITH HARI SREENIVASAN, THE CO-DIRECTOR OF THE DOCUMENTARY, AND THE FILMMAKER DISCUSS WHY THEY THINK ART IS VITAL TO UKRAINIAN RESISTANCE.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOUR FILM "PORCELAIN WAR" GIVES US A DIFFERENT KIND OF LOOK IN LIFE IN UKRAINE TODAY IN THE MIDDLE OF NOW A THREE-YEAR-LONG WAR.

>> LET ME START WITH YOU.

YOU'RE AN ARTIST, AND YOU'VE BEEN WORKING AS PART OF THE UKRAINIAN EFFORT.

WHAT DO YOU DO IN THE UKRAINIAN ARMY?

WHAT TYPE OF WORK WERE YOU DOING THAT KIND OF JUXTAPOSE THAT TO ME LIKE WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR ART.

>> I WAS IN UKRAINIAN SPECIAL FORCE.

I DROVE A CAR, I WAS -- ALSO I TRAINED CIVILIANS HOW TO USE WEAPONS, HOW TO DEFEND THEIR HOMES.

IT WAS TIME WHEN THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF OUR PEOPLE CAME TO ARMY AS VOLUNTEERS TO DEFEND FAMILIES AND THEIR HOMES.

BUT WE -- MY WIFE AND ME, WE ARE ARTISTS, AND WE CONTINUE OUR ART AT THE TIME.

AND ONE DAY BRENDON BELOMA CALLED ME AND ASKED ME ABOUT CAN WE -- HOW WE ARE AND WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

>> BRENDON, HOW DO YOU STUMBLE ACROSS THIS STORY OF SOMEONE WHO'S TRAINING CIVILIANS TO DEFEND THEIR HOMES AND HOW TO SHOOT GUNS BY DAY AND MAKING PORCELAIN FIGURINES BY NIGHT?

>> SIMILAR TO SLAVA AND ANYA, SUBJECTS IN THE FILM, MY WIFE AND I ARE FILMMAKING PARTNERS.

SHE GREW UP UNDER RUSSIAN OPPRESSION IN COMMUNIST POLAND.

EIGHT YEARS AGO SHE DISCOVERED THE PORCELAIN FIGURINES AND WAS SO MOVED BECAUSE THEY REMINDED HER OF HER HOME.

AND THE FOUR OF US BEGAN TO COLLABORATE ON AN ANIMATION PROJECT TOGETHER.

AND THEN RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE, AND SO WE CALLED UP SLAVA AND ANYA TO SAY ARE YOU OKAY, AND HE TOLD ME, AS YOU LEARNED, BUT I HAD NEVER HEARD THIS BEFORE, I'M IN THE UKRAINIAN SPECIAL FORCES, AND BY DAY I'M TRAINING CIVILIANS, AND BY NIGHT WE CONTINUE OUR ARTWORK.

WE FELT THIS WAS A REMARKABLE FORM OF RESISTANCE.

YOU HEAR ABOUT PEOPLE IN WARS AND NEVER THINK THEY'RE GOING TO STAY.

YOU NEVER THINK THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE IT -- TAKE CHARGE THEMSELVES AS EVERYDAY PEOPLE TO DEFEND THEIR LIVES.

BUT ALSO TO KEEP CREATING SOMETHING.

AND SLAVA FELT THERE WAS AN UNTOLD STORY FROM WITHIN.

WE WANTED TO EMPOWER THEM TO BE ABLE TO TELL THAT STORY THROUGH THEIR OWN EYES AS ARTISTS.

WE TAUGHT THEM HOW TO USE CAMERAS.

>> WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO TRY TO TELL THIS STORY THROUGH FILM AND -- AND HELP US I GUESS SEE IT?

WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO SEE?

>> FOR US AS ARTISTS AND AS SOLDIERS OUR FILM IS AMAZING OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE OUR EXPERIENCE.

ME AND MY FRIENDS IN MY UNIT, WE'RE ALL REGULAR CIVILIAN PEOPLE WHO CAME TO ARMY AS VOLUNTEERS.

AND WE WERE FORCED TO DEFEND OUR COUNTRY AND OUR HOMES.

BUT ALSO WE FELT A RESPONSIBILITY IN THE FACE OF HISTORY BECAUSE IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO DEFEND DEMOCRACY, DEFEND OUR INDEPENDENCE IN THE ENVIRONMENT, TRY TO TAKE AWAY OUR FUTURE AND HOW TO CREATE.

AND ALSO WE WERE FOCUSED ON OUR CULTURE, ON THE ART, AND ON BEAUTY BECAUSE IT IS ATTACKING BEAUTY.

OUR CULTURE AND OUR IDENTITY IS THE MAIN TARGET OF THIS INVASION.

>> YOU SAID TARGET OF THE INVASION.

WHAT GIVES YOU AN IDEA THAT IT IS THE TARGET?

WHY DO YOU THINK RUSSIANS ARE TARGETING CULTURE?

>> IDEA OF THIS AGGRESSION IS TAKE AWAY OUR OWN CULTURE, OUR OWN LANGUAGE, AND OUR IDENTITY.

AND RECOGNIZE UKRAINE TO RUSSIAN IMPACT.

SINCE THE START OF BIG WAR SO MANY OF OUR MUSEUMS WAS DESTROYED.

SO MANY -- OUR UNIVERSITY WAS DAMAGED, AND SO MANY OUR ARTISTS WAS KILLED, KILLED ON FRONT LINE, KILLED AS CIVILIAN PEOPLE ON THEIR OWN KITCHEN AND BEDROOM BECAUSE RUSSIA SHELLING DISTRICTS OF APARTMENT BUILDINGS.

AND ALSO KILLED ESPECIALLY UNOCCUPIED TERRITORY.

ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE VIEWED CULTURE ARTISTS AND WRITERS AND ACTORS IN UKRAINE, THEY WAS KILLED, AND NOBODY CAN BRING THESE PEOPLE BACK TO LIFE.

BECAUSE THIS IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY, REBUILD FUTURE OF OUR CULTURE.

>> BRENDON, THERE ARE THESE KIND OF BEAUTIFUL SCENES WHERE YOU LAYER ANIMATION ON TOP OF ANYA AND SLAVA'S ARTWORK, TINY PIECES OF PORCELAIN.

EXPLAIN WHY THAT'S THERE.

>> ANIMATION IS AN EXTENSION OF ANYA'S, WHAT SHE CALLS HER LANGUAGE.

THE PAINTINGS ON THEIR FIGURINES ARE PERSONAL.

>> THEY ACTUALLY ALLOW US TO BRING THE AUDIENCE TO PLACES YOU COULD NEVER BEEN A CAMERA.

WE DON'T HAVE A TIME MACHINE TO BRING A CAMERA BACK TO THEIR PEACEFUL PAST IN CRIMEA BEFORE THE ANNEXATION.

YET, ANYA CREATED A FIGURINE THAT DEPICTS THEIR LIFE, WHAT THEY WISH UKRAINE COULD BE.

AND HER LANGUAGE IS SOMETHING THAT COULD ACTUALLY SHARE MORE THAN IF WE WERE TO USE ARCHIVAL FOOTAGER TO LOOK AT THE NEWS, WHAT IT WAS LIKE EMOTIONALLY TO EXPERIENCE THE FIRST DAYS OF THE INVASION.

AND BECAUSE THIS IS A WAR THAT CONTINUES TO OCCUR, THERE'S NO END HERE, AND YET WE'RE -- WE'RE LOOKING AT A STORY OF THEIR LIVES.

THERE'S NO CONCLUSION AT THE MOMENT.

THIS IS THE LARGEST CONFLICT IN EUROPE SINCE WORLD WAR II.

BUT ANYA AND SLAVA ARE HOPEFUL, THEY ARE SO INCREDIBLY POWERFUL IN THEIR ART.

THEY ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THIS IS THE FUTURE THAT WE WANT TO HAVE IN UKRAINE.

AND THE SURFACE OF THESE FIGURINES WAS BROUGHT TO LIFE THROUGH A DEEP INTERNATIONAL COLLABORATION.

IT WAS ACTUALLY A COLLECTIVE OF ANIMATORS IN POLAND, IN WARSAW, THAT WORKED FOR A YEAR DRAWING 7,000 HAND-DRAWN IMAGES TO BRING ANYA'S STORIES TO LIFE IN THE FIGURINES.

IT WAS REMARKABLE TO SEE HOW PEOPLE CAN WORK TOGETHER BECAUSE THERE WAS A SHARED EXPERIENCE AS ARTISTS THAT PERSONAL STORIES TRULY MATTER.

>> SLAVA, THERE ARE SCENES WHERE YOU AND YOUR WIFE ARE OUT GOING FOR A WALK, AND YOU ARE -- I GUESS ON A HIKING TRAIL WHERE PEOPLE WOULD TRADITIONALLY BE LOOKING FOR MUSHROOMS.

BUT YOU'RE ALSO CLEARING MINES.

I MEAN -- OR YOU'RE AT LEAST MARKING WHERE LAND MINES EXIST.

AND I -- I'VE GOT TO WONDER LIKE WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS -- WHY ARE YOU TAKING A RISK IN THE FIRST FIRST PLACE?

>> OUR SITUATION IN UKRAINE, WE ARE SURROUNDED OF THIS KIND OF DANGER.

UKRAINE NOW IS MOST MINING BY LAND MINES, COUNTRY IN THE WHOLE WORLD.

AND OUR FARMERS, THEY HAVE THIS HORRIBLE ISSUE, THEY CANNOT WORK IN THEIR FIELDS BECAUSE OF THIS -- FIELD ARE MINING, AND ALSO OUR NATURE NOT ONLY LAND MINES, THIS HORRIBLE FIRE OF -- OUR NATIONAL PARKS AND OUR NATIONAL FORESTS, AND THE LIST IF SOME IS STILL HERE MINING, AND IT'S -- IT'S IMPORTANT ISSUE.

WE'LL NEVER FIX IT COMPLETELY.

BECAUSE IT'S HUGE AMOUNT.

IT WILL TAKE MAYBE HUNDREDS OF YEARS.

BUT WE'RE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW.

IT'S OUR LIFE, IT'S OUR COUNTRY.

>> SLAVA, YOU MENTIONED THERE'S A LINE IN THE FILM THAT SAYS "UKRAINE IS LIKE PORCELAIN, EASY TO BREAK YET IMPOSSIBLE TO DESTROY."

I GUESS EXPLAIN THAT.

>> WHEN WE CHOSE PORCELAIN TO MAKE OUR ART, I HAVE THINKING ABOUT IT'S UNDESTROYABLE, SO FRAGILE.

BUT PORCELAIN SURVIVES AFTER THOUSANDS OF YEARS UNDERGROUND IN FIRE, EVERYWHERE.

AND I THOUGHT ABOUT UKRAINE THE SAME.

IT'S SO EASY TO DAMAGE LIFE OF OUR PEOPLE BY SHELLING, BY THIS AGGRESSION, TO TAKE AWAY PART OF OUR TERRITORY.

BUT TO DESTROY, COMPLETELY DESTROY OUR CULTURE, TO DESTROY OUR IDENTITY, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

>> BRENDON, THERE ARE THESE KIND OF BEAUTIFUL MOMENTS WHERE WE SEE THE ART BEING MADE, AND WE SEE HOW THIS COUPLE IS KIND OF LIVING.

AND THEN IT'S JUXTAPOSED BY THESE INCREDIBLY INTENSE SCENES OF DESTRUCTION AND WAR.

IN FACT, THERE ARE SCENES WHERE IT'S KIND OF A FIRST-PERSON VIEW ON THE FRONT LINES.

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO INCLUDE THAT?

>> THE JUXTAPOSITION COMES FROM SOMETHING VERY SURPRISING.

AS AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT WHO HASN'T SERVED IN WAR, YOU HAVE THIS CONCEPT OF THE FRONT LINE BEING SOMETHING SEPARATE FROM LIFE.

YOU GO TO WAR.

BUT IN KHARKIV, IN UKRAINE, THE WAR IS RIGHT OUTSIDE SLAVA'S DOORSTEP.

AS HE SAYS, THEY HAD NO OTHER CHOICE.

WHAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS FILM IS IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD TO NOT ONLY SEE THAT THERE IS -- THERE'S NO CHOICE BUT TO DEFEND THEIR LIVES AND THEIR CULTURE, BUT TO ALSO HUMANIZE THIS EXPERIENCE.

A LOT OF TIMES IF YOU LOOK AT SOMETHING FROM NEWS FOOTAGE OR SOMETHING FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, WE SEE ALMOST A LABELING THAT CAN HAPPEN.

AN INADVERTENT HUMANIZATION, IN IS A SOLDIER, THIS SAY REFUGEE.

BUT WE FIGHT TO GIVE THESE PEOPLE A VOICE BY GIVING THEM A CAMERA AND SAYING HERE'S HOW YOU CAN SHARE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN YOUR LIVES SO WE CAN GET TO KNOW THEM.

TO STEP INTO THEIR SHOES AND HOPEFULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE EXPERIENCING AND HOW IT REALLY AFFECTS ALL OF US.

>> SLAVA, YOU MENTION IN THE FILM THAT YOU'RE SO THANKFUL THAT YOU ARE MEETING THE TYPE OF PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE.

I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE WHO COME TO TRAINING ON WEAPONRY AND HOW TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

HOW HAS YOUR LIFE CHANGED IN THESE COUPLE OF YEARS?

>> ALL MY FRIENDS, THEY'RE AMAZING.

THEY'RE STILL THE SAME PEOPLE, AND NOBODY WANT TO GO FIGHT EXTRA -- EXTRA MINUTE.

THEY WANT TO RETURN TO THEIR OWN LIFE, THEIR -- THEY'RE SUCCESSFUL IN THEIR CIVILIAN LIFE.

BUT THEY CAME TO ARMY TO DEFEND THEIR PEOPLE.

THEY ARE SO BRAVE AND SO INTELLIGENT, AND THEY -- THEY'RE REALLY AMAZING.

AND THEY SUPPORTED OUR PROJECT A LOT.

I WAS SERVING IN UKRAINIAN ARMY AT THE TIME, AND I WAS ABLE TO FILM "PORCELAIN WAR" ONLY BECAUSE WHEN I TOOK OUT MY CAMERA, SOMEONE CKED UP RIFLE IN MY PLACE.

THEY TRUSTED US, AND THEY THOUGHT ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT IS TO SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCE.

TO HELP US MAKE SOMETHING ABOUT CULTURE, MAKE SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL.

>> WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT THIS ENTIRE WAR AND THE PEOPLE THERE IN THIS PROCESS OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS AS YOU'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS?

WHAT DO YOU -- WHAT DO YOU HOPE PEOPLE GET OUT OF THE FILM?

>> I HOPE PEOPLE TAKE AWAY THAT EVEN IN SITUATIONS THIS ABSOLUTELY DIRE THAT THERE IS HOPE, THAT CREATIVITY MATTERS TO CONTINUE NOT ONLY A RECORD OF WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH FROM A PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE, BUT TO ALSO ENSURE THE CONTINUATION AND THE SURVIVAL OF CULTURE.

BUT ALSO WHILE THIS STORY TAKES PLACE WITHIN THE BORDERS OF UKRAINE, IT TRULY AFFECTS ALL OF US.

AS I SAID EARLIER, IT'S THE LARGEST CONFLICT IN EUROPE SINCE WORLD WAR II, BUT ALSO HAVE OTHER AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENTS THAT ARE LOOKING AT THE OUTCOME OF THIS WAR.

IF RUSSIA WINS IN UKRAINE, IT MIGHT EMBOLDEN CHINA, FOR EXAMPLE, TO ATTACK TAIWAN WHERE THEY HAVE THEIR SIGHTS SET.

UKRAINE WAS A SOVEREIGN, DEMOCRATIC, PEACEFUL NATION.

THIS WAS AN UNPROVOKED ATTACK.

AND SO I URGE ANYBODY WHO SEES THIS FILM TO SEE THAT AS A PERSPECTIVE OF EVERYDAY PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING THROUGH THIS.

THAT THIS COULD HAPPEN IN OTHER PLACES IN THE WORLD AND THE OUTCOME OF THIS CONFLICT AFFECTS ALL OF US.

I MEAN, DEMOCRACY IS AT RISK AROUND THE WORLD MORE THAN EVER.

WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING AND HOW MUCH THINGS ARE INTERCONNECTED.

WE CAN'T JUST VIEW THINGS AS THIS IS IN A BOX, IN IS HERE IN THIS COUNTRY.

WE'RE ALL ON THIS PLANET TOGETHER.

>> SLAVA, WHAT'S YOUR HOPE FOR THE FUTURE?

>> I HOPE OUR MOVIE IS NOT ABOUT UKRAINE AND UKRAINIANS ONLY.

AND I HOPE WE WERE ABLE TO BRING INSPIRATION FROM THE MIDDLE OF THIS DESTRUCTION.

AND I THINK ABOUT OUR FUTURE THROUGH OUR MOVIE.

THESE PEOPLE, THESE REGULAR PEOPLE AROUND ME, IN THE FACE OF THIS AGGRESSION THEY ARE ABLE TO DEFEND INDEPENDENCE THROUGH CULTURE AND KEEP HUMANITY EVEN IN THIS DARK TIME.

I HOPE EVERYWHERE KIND PEOPLE CAN LEARN.

>> THE FILMMAKERS BEHIND "PORCELAIN WAR."

THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS CONVERSATION.

>> THANK YOU.