Amanpour and Company

WE WANT TO TURN TO THE IMPORTANCE OF FEMALE REPRESENTATION IN FILM AND TELEVISION. A RECENT STUDY SHOWS THAT WOMEN MAKE UP ONE-FIFTH OF DIRECTORS. HERE IS ACTOR POORNA JAGANNATHAN TALKING TO US ABOUT HER ROLE AS A TIGER MOM IN THE HIT NETFLIX SHOW BY MINDY KALING, "NEVER HAVE I EVER." AND WHY DIVERSITY IS SO IMPORTANT IN THIS GOLDEN ERA OF STREAMING. >> THANKS. POORNA JAGANNATHAN, IT'S SO WONDERFUL TO HAVE YOU HERE WITH US TODAY. THANK YOU. >> I'M SO EXCITED. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. >> I LOVED WATCHING THE SECOND SEASON OF "NEVER HAVE I EVER" AND I'M CLEARLY NOT THE ONLY ONE. THE SHOW IS A GLOBAL PHENOMENON. A HUGE HIT IN THE U.S. AND SWEEPING THE WORLD AS NUMBER ONE ON NETFLIX, INDIA, SOUTH AFRICA, PERU. WHY DO YOU THINK THE SHOW RESONATES SO STRONGLY WITH AUDIENCES AROUND THE WORLD? >> I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU HEAR IT A LOT AND IT'S SO TRUE. THE MORE SPECIFIC YOU ARE IN TELLING THE STORY, SOMEHOW IT BECOMES MORE UNIVERSAL. AND THIS IS -- IT RESONATES BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH DIVERSITY, NOT ONLY FROM THE CAMERA IN TERMS OF THE ACTORS YOU SEE AND WHO THEY ARE, BUT DIVERSITY IN STORYTELLING. IN SEASON 2, YOU SEE, YOU KNOW, A BABY TACKLED -- >> I JUST GOT OVERCOME WITH EMOTION. >> WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO AT MY FUNERAL? HAVE SEX ON TOP OF MY GRAVE? >> YOU SEE HOW SHE GRAPPLED WITH MENTAL HEALTH. YOU SEE HER FRIEND TACKLING SEXUALITY. IN OUR HOME, THERE'S INTERGENERATIONAL CONVERSATIONS HAPPENING. THERE'S -- I CALL IT DIFFERENT SHADES OF FEMINISM THAT COME UP WITHIN SMALL HOUSEHOLDS. JUST, AGAIN, THE BREADTH OF PEOPLE AND TOPICS, YOU'RE -- AND NOT IN ANY WAY DILUTED. WONDERFUL, THREE DIMENSIONAL CHARACTERS CONVEYING THESE STORY LINES SO BEAUTIFULLY. I THINK YOU JUST -- BE IT A CHILD OR ADULT, YOU JUST FIND YOURSELF SOMEHOW WITHIN THE STORYTELLING. >> YOUR CHARACTER ON THE SCREEN, MELANIE, WHAT STRUCK ME IS HOW MUCH SHE ACTUALLY EVOLVES IN SEASON TWO. I WOULD SAY SHE WAS MORE OF A STEREOTYPE, TIGER MOM WHO WANTS HER DAUGHTER TO HAVE STRAIGHT "A"s AND GO TO IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL. IN SEASON TWO, SHE TRANSFORMS INTO MORE OF A FULL WOMAN WITH NEEDS WHO IS ACHING TO BELONG, RIGHT? CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT, THE WAY YOUR CHARACTER EVOLVES? >> WHEN I WAS IN THE PROCESS OF ACCEPTING A JOB, OBVIOUSLY, IT WAS NETFLIX, WHEN THE PAPERS CAME THROUGH, I SAW A YA NEXT TO IT. I DON'T WATCH THE GENRE. AND IT SAID FOR YOUNG ADULTS. AND I STOPPED IN MY TRACKS FOR A SECOND AND HAD TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH MINDY KALING BECAUSE I WAS NOT IN THAT PART OF MY CAREER WHERE I WANTED TO PORTRAY A DISNEY MOTHER. >> HOW COULD YOU MOVE ON SO QUICKLY? >> I HAVEN'T MOVED ON. I MISS YOUR FATHER SO MUCH THAT IT PHYSICALLY HURTS. I GUESS I JUST WANTED A BREAK FROM THAT PAIN. >> AND I HAD TOO MANY IMPORTANT STORIES OF IMMIGRATION THAT WEREN'T TOLD, SO I HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT AND THEY WERE, LIKE, MINDY KALING ASSURED ME AND THEY SAID IT'S A DEEPER STORY LINE. WE DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO WRITE LIKE THAT. THIS WOMAN HAS A FULL CHARACTER ARC, WHICH WAS -- EVEN SEASON ONE, YOU SEE THESE UNBELIEVABLE BREAKS IN HER TIGER MOM PARENTING, RIGHT? THESE UNBELIEVABLE, LIKE, FRACTURES WHERE THE GRIEF WILL COME THROUGH. EPISODE TWO, SHE HAS A MISCARRIAGE. THAT NOT STUFF IS NOT SHOWN FOR OUR COMMUNITY, OUR LOSS AND GRIEF AND WHAT BEING A MOM MEANS WAS NOT SHOWN. IT WAS A HUGE BREAKTHROUGH. >> THAT POINT OF BEING SO THREE DIMENSIONAL, YOUR CHARACTER ALSO DEVELOPS A ROMANCE WITH A FELLOW DOCTOR. HE'S PLAYED BY THE ACTOR AND RAPPER COMMON. LET'S HAVE A LOOK AT THAT FOR A MOMENT. >> I'M SO MORTIFIED. THAT MUST HAVE BEEN THE WORST DATE OF YOUR ENTIRE LIFE. >> NO. I ONCE GOT STUCK IN A ROTATING RESTAURANT THAT KEPT SPEEDING UP. >> CHRIS, I DO NOT THINK THIS IS GOING TO WORK OUT. >> BECAUSE OF YOUR DAUGHTER? >> HONESTLY, ME TOO. I THINK IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE TOO SOON. I THINK I WILL BE READY IN A FEW YEARS. BUT YOU WILL PROBABLY BE SNATCHED UP BY THEN. >> I DON'T KNOW. SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE ME WHEN THEY FIRST MEET ME. >> COME ON. >> MAYBE I'LL SEE YOU IN THE ELEVATOR. >> I LOOK FORWARD TO THAT. >> AN INDIAN WIDOW LONGING. >> UH-HUH. YOU KNOW, THIS -- WHAT I LOVE ABOUT THE SHOW, IT'S A VERY COMPLEX ANATOMY OF GRIEF. AS I WAS GOING THROUGH THE EPISODE, ESPECIALLY THIS SCENE WHERE SHE SAYS I'M NOT READY AND COMING BACK TO THAT PREVIOUS SCENE WHERE SHE GETS CAUGHT BY HER DAUGHTER AND RATTED OUT, IT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHEN YOU LOSE SOMEONE, IT'S PROBABLY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT DOES MOVING FORWARD VERSUS MOVING ON REALLY LOOK LIKE. MELANIE IS TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD. BABY IS TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD. AND THERE'S A COUPLE STEPS BACK THAT THEY HAVE TO TAKE AND IT'S NOT MOVING ON. IT'S FAR FROM -- I DON'T THINK IT'S BEEN A YEAR SINCE HER HUSBAND DIED. AND IT'S A VERY DELICATE, VERY INTRICATE NUANCE OF GRIEF MORE ME. >> ANOTHER ASPECT OF THIS SCENE, IT'S NOT JUST THIS EXPLORATION OF A WOMAN WHO IS GRIEVING AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO BE SEEN, THERE'S ALSO A REALLY INTERESTING RACIAL SUBTEXT GOING ON IN THE SCENE. COMMON IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND YOU AND I WELL KNOW THAT RACISM, COLORISM RUNS DEEP IN THE SOUTH ASIAN COMMUNITY. AND I WONDER WATCHING THAT, CASTING HIM, MAKING HIM YOUR LOVE INTEREST, DID MINDY KALING AND OTHER SHOW CREATORS INITIALLY SET OUT TO TAKE THIS ON, TO CHALLENGE SOUTH ASIANS IN THE ERA OF BLACK LIVES MATTER? >> THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING. I THINK THE SHOW NORMALIZES A LOT AND, YES, A BLACK, BROWN LOVE SHOWN ON SCREEN WITHOUT PEOPLE KILLING THEMSELVES, THAT'S A WHOLE NEW THING. >> WE SEE IT IN THE WHITE HOUSE, BUT IN POP CULTURE, LESS SO. >> IT'S NOT NORMALIZED. THERE'S SO MUCH IN HERE THAT DOESN'T HAVE SUBTITLES AND DOESN'T HAVE AN EXPLANATION. MY USE OF -- THE STUFF THAT WE DO. THERE'S NO ADDENDUM TO ANY OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO. BABY'S PERSONALITY AND HER -- ANYTHING DOESN'T HAVE A BIBLIOGRAPHY ATTACHED SOMEHOW. THERE'S NO CHARACTER WHO IS TRANSLATING -- IF I SPEAK SOMETHING, NO ONE IS TRANSLATING IT INTO ENGLISH. AND I THINK THIS WAS ANOTHER THING OF NORMALIZING A BLACK/BROWN RELATIONSHIP WITHOUT ANY EXPLANATION AND ANY OF THE DRAMA AT ALL. HOWEVER, COMMON WAS A HUGE FAN OF THE SHOW AND I KNOW MINDY KALING HEARD OF IT. AND SO WHEN THEY WERE THINKING OF A LOVE INTEREST, I THINK THEY KIND OF THOUGHT OF HIM FIRST. >> WHEN YOU SAY THAT THE SHOW NORMALIZES WITHOUT OVERDISCUSSING THE FACT OF NORMALIZING, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE CREW, THE CREATORS WENT INTO IT AWARE OF THE COLORISM AND THE SOUTH ASIAN COMMUNITY AND KNOW WE'RE GOING TO BE CHALLENGING IT, WAS THAT A CONVERSATION HERE? >> THEY DO IT ALL THE TIME. THEY'RE WAY TO SMART FOR ANYTHING TO BE PLANNED. IT'S THE MOST DIVERSE WRITER'S ROOM THAT I HAVE EVER BEEN TO -- YOU KNOW, IN A SHOW. I THINK THERE'S MORE THAN 50% ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR AND DIFFERENT SEXUALITIES. I THINK THERE'S FOUR SOUTH ASIANS IN THE ROOM. EVERYTHING IN THERE IS DELIBERATE. I THINK THE GOAL IS TO MOVE CONVERSATIONS FORWARD TO NORMALIZE, TO MIRROR AND TO PORTRAY NEW WAYS OF BEING -- >> THERE'S A REAL POWER IN THAT. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE WRITER'S ROOM, THE DIVERSITY OF IT. PEOPLE OF COLOR IN ADDITION TO MINDY KALING, HOW DOES THAT DIVERSITY IMPACT THE SCRIPTS THAT YOU GET AND THE ROLE THAT YOU END UP PLAYING? >> IT'S A GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S BEEN ON MY MIND A LOT. FOR DIVERSITY IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA, IT MEANS AN ECOSYSTEM OF DIVERSITY BEHIND IT. AND MINDY KALING HAS CREATED JUST THAT. THE PRODUCERS, THE SHOW RUNNERS, THE TEAM OF -- NETFLIX, WE HAVE A WRITER'S ROOM THAT IS RADICALLY DIVERSE AND EACH ONE WILL TELL YOU THEY'VE NEVER BEEN IN A MORE DIVERSE ROOM BEFORE. AND HOW -- WHEN YOU'RE THE ONLY BROWN GIRL IN A ROOM AND YOU PRESENT A STORY LINE, YOU PRESENT AN IDEA, THERE'S NO ONE TO BACK YOU UP OR NO ONE TO ADD -- THOSE ADDITIONAL STORIES THAT CAN FLESH IT OUT. SO THERE'S, YOU KNOW -- SO I KIND OF REMEMBER MINDY SAYING IT WAS A VERY CATHARTIC THING TO BE IN THE WRITER'S ROOM. ALL OF THE BROWN GIRLS WERE SAYING, THAT HAPPENED TO ME TOO! AND I THINK THE POWER OF THIS SHOW IS THE ACTORS FEEL LIKE THEY CAN GRAB THIS MATERIAL AND THEY CAN OWN IT, BUT WHAT HAPPENS TO THE AUDIENCE MEMBER IS, THEY LOOK AT THEM LIKE, OKAY, HOW DO THEY KNOW THAT? HOW -- THAT DETAIL, HOW DID THEY KNOW THAT HAPPENED TO ME? IT'S SO PERSONAL BECAUSE IT'S COMING FROM REAL, LIVED-IN EXPERIENCE WHICH IS NOT THE CASE IN OTHER SHOWS WHICH IS MIND-BOGGLING TO ME. >> LET'S TALK ABOUT HOLLYWOOD AS AN INDUSTRY. WOMEN MAKE UP JUST ONE QUARTER OF FILM WRITERS, ONE-FIFTH OF DIRECTORS. MINORITIES, ONE QUARTER OF WRITERS AND DIRECTORS. WE ARE WORKING WITH LESSON MONEY, WHITE FILM DIRECTORS ARE MORE THAN TWICE AS LIKELY TO HAVE A FILM BUDGET OF A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS OR MORE. THESE ARES A STOUNDING FIGURES, DISAPPOINTING FIGURES. DO YOU SEE ON THE GROUND FROM YOUR VANTAGE POINT PEOPLE OF COLOR, TALENT OF COLOR GAINING TRACTION, TRUE TRACTION, OR DO YOU SEE THE SURGE IN DIVERSE CONTENT, MORE AS KIND OF A BLIP ON THE REACTION, NOT REALLY A SEA CHANGE. >> NO, I REALLY DON'T. I MEAN, I THINK THERE ARE MORE PLACES TO TELL YOUR STORY NOW. AND MORE STORIES ARE BEING TOLD. AND I THINK MORE PEOPLE ARE GIVEN CHANCES. SO, LIKE, ARAMI, THE BUDGETS AREN'T HUGE. THE BUDGETS ARE REALLY NOT HUGE. AND -- SO I DO THINK SHOWS LIKE OURS AND MOVIES LIKE "CRAZY RICH ASIANS," WHEN YOU STRING THEM TOGETHER, YOU START SEEING A BIGGER STORY BEING TOLD WHICH IS DIVERSITY WORKS AND LIKE THE SHOW, IT WORKS TO A GLOBAL AUDIENCE, ONE THAT IS REALLY -- IT'S VERY DESIRABLE FOR A STREAMING PLATFORM OR A -- YOU KNOW, A -- ANY SERVICE. AND AS YOU START CONNECTING THE DOTS -- THESE ARE -- THESE MOVIES AND SHOWS JUST HAPPEN. WE WERE IN A VERY -- IT'S LIKE FOUR YEARS, MAYBE. IT'S A VERY RECENT TALE. BUT THEY ARE -- THEY RESONATE AND THEY'RE PROFITABLE. >> THERE'S THE REPRESENTATION YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN LIKE, OH, LOOK, SOUTH ASIANS GET TO PLAY DOCTORS AND ENGINEERS. IS THAT WHAT WE'RE SEEING OR DO YOU THINK WE'RE BREAKING AWAY FROM THAT NARRATIVE? >> I THINK IT'S PEOPLE LIKE US WHO ARE BREAKING THE NARRATIVE. BECAUSE AS, YOU KNOW, MINDY KALING OR ARAMI, THEY -- IT'S THEM TELLING THEIR STORIES, RIGHT? IT'S NOT A CAUCASIAN PERSON SOMEONE WHO IS COMING IN AND SAYING, LET'S DIVERSIFY, LET'S GET YOU OUT OF THAT MINORITY THING. I THINK IF HOLLYWOOD HAD ITS WAY, WE WOULD STILL BE DOING A LOT MORE DOCTORS AND A LOT MORE SCIENTISTS. BUT I THINK IT'S PEOPLE -- IT'S AN INSIDE JOB. THEY'RE TELLING THEIR OWN STORIES AND USING DIFFERENT WAYS TO TELL IT AND THEIR STORY IS A -- THEY'RE MESSY HUMAN BEINGS AND THEY'RE DEEPLY FLAWED AND THAT'S THE PART THAT I THINK AS ANN ACTOR, THE OTHER PARTS I WAS PLAYING, I OFTEN SAY THE PROBLEM WITH THE MINORITY IS NOT THAT THEY ARE UNTRUE, BUT THEY ARE INCOMPLETE. I SHOW UP AND I COULD NEVER LEAVE MY FULL SELF ON A SET. I DON'T BRING A SLIVER OF WHO I AM. "NEVER HAVE I EVER," I CAN BRING EVERYTHING. >> POORNA JAGANNATHAN, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH ME. >> THIS IS SO LOVELY. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.