Amanpour and Company

>>> WELL, WE TURN NOW TO SILICON VALLEY AND ONE OF ITS MOST INFLUENTIAL INVESTORS, PETER TEAL HAD A HAND IN THE SUCCESS OF MANY PROFITABLE TECH COMPANIES FROM TODAY, FACEBOOK TO SPACEX, HE'S ALSO ON A QUEST TO LIVE FOREVER, INVESTING MILLIONS IN LIFE EXTENSION RESEARCH. IT'S ALL DOWN ON PAPER, AND THE NEW BIOGRAPHY, THE CONTRARIAN, THE PURSUIT OF POWER. HERE HE IS SPEAKING ABOUT THE MAN BEHIND THE MONEY. >> BIANNA, THANKS, MAX, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US, YOU CALL PETER TEAL THE MOST INFLUENTIAL VENTURE CAPITALIST IN SILICON VALLEY. WHY? >> WELL, PETER TEAL HAS BEEN BEHIND SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT COMPANIES IN SILICON VALLEY SO HE'S THE CO-FOUNDER OF PAYPAL, HE'S THE FOUNDER OF PALENTEER THIS DEFENSE CONTRACTOR DATA MINING FIRM THAT HAS MORE THAN A BILLION DOLLARS IN CONTRACTS FROM THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND PROBABLY MOST SIGNIFICANTLY HE IS THE FIRST OUTSIDE INVESTOR AND THE LONGEST SERVING BOARD MEMBER AT FACEBOOK. HE IS REALLY THE PERSON WHO KIND OF MADE MARK ZUCKERBERG MARK ZUCKERBERG. WHO BOTH SET FACEBOOK UP WITH THIS STRUCTURE THAT ALLOWS ZUCKERBERG TO CONTROL THE COMPANY, BASICALLY AS A DE FACTO DICTATOR. HE'S THE FOUNDER AND CEO, AND HE ALSO KIND OF CREATED THIS AS A SORT OF IDEOLOGY WHICH HAS SPREAD THROUGHOUT SILICON VALLEY AND YOU SEE THIS STRUCTURE AND THE FACEBOOK APPROACH TO GROWTH WHICH PETER TEAL HELPED TO CREATE, HAVING KIND OF BEEN DEPLOYED ACROSS THE TECH INDUSTRY AND HAS LED TO A A LOT OF TECH INDUSTRY'S AMAZING SUCCESS OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS BUT I THINK SOME OF THE PROBLEMS. >> MOST PEOPLE IN AMERICA, IF THEY KNOW OF HIM, THEY MIGHT HAVE CAUGHT A GLIMPSE OF HIM DURING THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION WHEN HE WAS ON STAGE, AND HE WAS ENDORSING DONALD TRUMP. BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU POINT OUT THAT THAT WOULD BE KIND OF AN OVERSIMPLIFICATION OF HIS POLITICS, WHAT IS THAT GOT HIM TO THAT POINT? >> YEAH, SO THIS IS WHAT MAKES TEAL SO INTERESTING. IT'S WHY I WAS INTERESTED IN WRITING ABOUT HIM FOR THIS BOOK BECAUSE HE'S NOT JUST THIS TECH GUY, THIS GUY WHO'S KIND OF HELPED CREATE SILICON VALLEY AS IT EXISTS TODAY BUT HE'S HAD THIS REALLY INTERESTING AND REALLY LONG, DECADES LONG CAREER IN CONSERVATIVE POLITICS. HE GOT ATTENTION, YOU KNOW, WAY BACK AS THE 1980s STARTING THIS NEWSPAPER CALLED THE STANFORD REVIEW WHICH IS A PROVOCATIVE RIGHT WING NEWSPAPER, SIMILAR TO SORT OF THE DARTMOUTH REVIEW, CORNELL REVIEW, WHICH ANN COULTER WAS INVOLVED WITH. HE WROTE A BOOK ABOUT THE DANGERS OF MULTICULTURALISM IN THE MID-90s. HE ALWAYS FLIRTED WITH THIS VERY PROVOCATIVE IDEA THAT THE LIBERAL ESTABLISHMENT HAS GONE TOO FAR AND THESE -- AND CONSERVATIVES NEED TO PUSH BACK. AND I THINK HE REALLY SAW AN OPPORTUNITY WITH DONALD TRUMP WHO MADE THAT, YOU KNOW, A CORE PART OF HIS CANDIDACY. AND OF COURSE TEAL, WHO IS SORT OF A BRILLIANT INVESTOR, ALWAYS ONE TO SPOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO BUY LOW, GOT IN ON THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN, THE TRUMP TRAIN AS IT WERE REALLY EARLY. YOU KNOW, MAKING THIS -- MAKING HIS SUPPORT KNOWN BEFORE MOST IN THE BUSINESS WORLD HAD GOTTEN BEHIND TRUMP AND THEN MAKING A DONATION, YOU KNOW, AT A REALLY CRUCIAL TIME DURING THE 2016 ELECTION, SHORTLY AFTER THE ACCESS HOLLYWOOD TAPE LEAKED AND MANY REPUBLICANS, ESPECIALLY IN THE DONOR CLASS, WERE WRITING OFF TRUMP'S CANDIDACY. >> YOU MENTIONED THAT EARLY ON IN HIS LIFE SOME OF HIS -- ONE OF HIS COLLEAGUES OR CO-WORKERS HAD SAID THAT HE WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, THE ENTIRE POLITICAL SYSTEM IS ALL CORRUPT. AND HERE HE IS PLAYING THIS LIKE A CHESS GAME WHICH YOU SAY HE'S VERY GOOD AT.EAH, YEAH, ABSOLUT. AND, I MEAN, THERE IS THIS STRAIN OF KIND OF ULTRALIBERTARIAN.A REAL BRING DE SYSTEM KIND OF ETHOS THAT YOU SEE IN TEAL, AND ALSO IN MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE COME INTO POSITIONS OF POWER IN THE TECH INDUSTRY AND THAT'S KIND OF, AGAIN, THAT'S I THINK WHY HE'S SO INTERESTING. IT'S NOT -- HE'S NOT JUST THIS SINGULAR FIGURE, HE'S SOMEBODY WHOSE IDEAS HAVE PROLIFERATED. IN THE EARLY -- SORRY, THE LATE '90s, YOU KNOW, WHEN TEAL STARTED PAYPAL, WE THINK OF PAYPAL AS BEING THIS, YOU KNOW, MONEY TRANSFER THING, IT'S A WAY TO BUY STUFF ON EBAY AND IT IS THAT BUT BACK THEN TEAL WAS TALKING ABOUT IT AS THE CULMINATION OF THIS LIBERTARIAN PROJECT, HE TALKED ABOUT THIS WOULD BE A WAY TO LET ANYONE HAVE A SWISS BANK ACCOUNT IN THEIR POCKET. THAT IT WOULD HURT THE VIABILITY OF NATION STATES, YOU KNOW THESE ARE SUPER RADICAL STATEMENTS, AND YOU'VE SEEN THEM CROPPING UP ACTUALLY IN THE WORLD OF CRYPTO TODAY AND THEY'VE GONE MAINSTREAM TO SOME EXTENT BUT THEY'RE ALSO IN CONFLICT WITH SOME ASPECTS OF DONALD TRUMP AND TRUMPISM. IT'S ALL ABOUT AMERICA FIRST, SO, YOU KNOW, TEAL IS KIND OF A SWIRL OF CONTRADICTIONS AT TIMES BUT HAS REALLY BEEN, YOU KNOW, HAD THESE REALLY RADICAL PHILOSOPHIES. >> TELL US MORE ABOUT THOSE CONTRADICTIONS. ONE HAND THE LIN WANTS SMALL GOVERNMENT, AND ON THE OTHER HAND HIS COMPANY IS SUPPORTING THE CIA AND HOMELAND SECURITY AND MANY OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES. >> YEAH, I DON'T THINK TEAL IS LIKE A LIBERTARIAN IN ANY KIND OF NORMAL SENSE, HE DEFINITELY SUPPORTS SOME LIBERTARIAN GOALS SUCH AS THE IDEA THAT BILLIONAIRES SHOULD BE ALLOWED T BUSINESSES SHOULD BE ALLOWED INCREASING FREEDOM, BORDERING ON THE FREEDOM TO KIND OF RUN THE WORLD. BUT TEAL HAS ALSO BEEN REALLY FAR RIGHT ON IMMIGRATION, KIND OF REALLY IN LINE WITH DONALD TRUMP AND TRUMPISM ON AND I THINK WHEN YOU KIND OF ADD ALL THIS STUFF UP, ONE POSSIBLE EXPLANATION IS HE'S JUST ADOPTED A LOT OF EXTREME POSITIONS THAT HAVE ALLOWED HIM TO ENRICH HIMSELF. THE LIBERTARIAN POSITION, OF COURSE, IS A GREAT WAY TO PAY LESS IN TAXES. HIS AFFINITY WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN A REALLY GREAT -- ARGUABLY A REALLY GREAT ASSET TO PALENTEER HIS DEFENSE CONTRACTOR THAT HAS WON, AS I SAID, MORE THAN A BILLION DOLLARS IN CONTRACTS SINCE 2016. >> YOU KNOW, AS YOU READ THE BOOK, IT'S LIKE HE'S ALMOST LIKE A FOREST GUMP LIKE CHARACTER. HE SHOWS UP IN ALL THESE MOMENTS IN THE LIVES OF THESE TECH COMPANIES AND THESE ENTREPRENEURS, WHICH TURN OUT TO BE PIVOTAL, AND THEY TURN OUT TO BE HUGE. I MEAN, MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT THERE WAS A COMPANY CALLED X.COM THAT ELON MUSK WAS RUNNING WHICH WAS LITERALLY IN THE SAME BUILDING DOWN THE HALLWAY FROM PETER TEAL'S COMPANY. HE AND ELON MUSK AT ONE POINT BOTH WERE CEOs OF PAYPAL. SO THEY DON'T SEEM LIKE THEY WOULD GET ALONG. >> NO, AND THEY DON'T GET ALONG BECAUSE THERE WAS A BIG BLOW-UP. I MEAN, THIS IS -- THERE'S SO MANY CRAZY STORIES AND I LOVE THE FORREST GUMP ANALOGY. IT IS THAT WAY. FOLLOWING TEAL IS SORT OF THIS ALTERNATIVE PATH THROUGH THE HISTORY OF SILICON VALLEY. YOU KNOW, MUSK AND TEAL HAVE THIS RELATIONSHIP, SOMETIMES IT'S A FRIENDSHIP, BUT SOMETIMES IT'S MORE OF A RIVALRY. AND IN 1999 AND 2000 THEY WERE BOTH RUNNING THESE COMPETING PAYMENTS COMPANIES, THE TWO COMPANIES MERGED, MUSK TOOK OVER, AND WAS RUNNING THE AND HE WAS, YOU KNOW, THE BETTER KNOWN OF THE TWO MEN. HE HAD MORE INVESTMENT DOLLARS, MORE FAMOUS INVESTORS. HE WAS IN MANY WAYS A SENIOR PARTNER, AND PETER TEAL, BEING KIND OF A MASTER CHESS PLAYER, HE WAS, HE WAS A CHESS CHAMPION AS A BOY, YOU KNOW, ENGINEERS THIS COUP WHERE MUSK FLIES TO AUSTRALIA FOR HIS HONEYMOON AND I THINK HE MAYBE HAD A FEW INVESTOR MEETINGS PLANNED ALONG THE WAY AND WHEN HE COMES BACK HE FINDS THAT THESE ALLIES OF PETER TEAL'S HAVE GONE TO MIKE MORITZ AND PRESENTED HIM WITH AN ULTIMATUM, REPLACE ELON MUSK WITH PETER TEAL OR WE WALK. THE AMAZING THING ABOUT THAT STORY IS NOT THAT PETER TEAL DID A COUP ON ELON MUSK, BUT THAT AFTER THAT HAPPENED THEY MANAGED TO KIND OF PATCH IT UP. IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ELON MUSK HE DOES NOT TAKE SLIGHTS LIGHTLY BUT IT'S REALLY A COMMENT ON BOTH TEAL'S -- REALLY ON TEAL'S POWER THAT MUSK SAW THAT, YOU KNOW, HE WAS -- HE'D BE BETTER OFF WITH PETER TEAL AS A FRIEND THAN AS AN ENEMY. AND YEARS LATER WHEN MUSK'S ROCKET COMPANY WAS STRUGGLING IN 2008, HAD HAD A COUPLE OF UNSUCCESSFUL LAUNCHES, PROSPECTS LOOKED REALLY DIM, PETER TEAL COMES ALONG AND MAKES AN INVESTMENT IN SPACEX THAT HELPS SAVE ELON MUSK'S ROCKET COMPANY AND REALLY HELPS SAVE HIS EMPIRE, BECAUSE HE WAS IN A VERY DIFFICULT PLACE AND SO OF COURSE -- THAT'S JUST LIKE ANOTHER ONE OF THESE WEIRD INFLUENCE THAT IS TEAL HAS MANAGED TO HAVE NOT ONLY OVER HIS FRIENDS BUT OVER THESE PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, HE'S HAD ONE OVER ON.O, TELL ME A LITTLET ABOUT HOW IT IS THAT HE BECOMES THE FIRST BIG BACKER OF MARK ZUCKERBERG. >> YES, SO TEAL IS THE LEADER -- IF YOU SPEND TIME IN SILICON VALLEY YOU'LL HEAR THIS PHRASE PAYPAL MAFIA, THE GROUP OF FORMER PAYPAL EXECUTIVES, BASICALLY LED BY PETER TEAL, AND AFTER THE -- AFTER EBAY PURCHASED PAYPAL THEY WENT OFF INTO SILICON VALLEY AND STARTED WORKING TOGETHER MAKING INVESTMENTS, BASICALLY IN EACH OTHER'S COMPANIES AND COMPANIES OF FRIENDS AND YOU'LL SEE EMPLOYEES BOUNCING FROM ONE COMPANY TO THE NEXT. THE NETWORK IS NOT -- YOU KNOW, IT'S CALLED A MAFIA, BUT IT'S NOT A VIOLENT NETWORK. BUT IT IS A NETWORK WHERE LOYALTY AND BOTH IN TERMS OF BUSINESS LOYALTY, BUT AT TIMES KIND OF IDEOLOGICAL LOYALTY. A LOT OF THESE GUYS HAVE KIND OF THE SAME POLITICS, REALLY IS VALUED AND THAT LOYALTY INCLUDES NOT TALKING TO THE PRESS, WHICH WAS MADE IN MY LIFE A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT. ZUCKERBERG COMES TO TEAL THROUGH THAT NETWORK THROUGH REED HOFFMAN, A SENIOR EXECUTIVE AT PAYPAL WHO FOUNDED LINKEDIN AND HE HAD THIS MEETING WITH ZUCKERBERG AND, YOU KNOW, AT THE TIME, ZUCKERBERG REALLY DIDN'T LOOK LIKE MUCH. HE'D BEEN RUN INTO TROUBLE AT HARVARD. KIND OF A BAD BOY WHO HAD DONE SOMETHING VAGUELY, NOT CRIMINAL, BUT CERTAINLY NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES. AND TEAL IS SOMEBODY WHO KIND OF LOVES THESE PEOPLE, LOVES THESE PROVOCATEURS WHO GET IN TROUBLE AT ELITE INSTITUTIONS LIKE HARVARD, AND SEES VERY QUICKLY NOT ONLY THAT ZUCKERBERG WAS ONTO SOMETHING, BUT THAT FACEBOOK HAD A LOT OF POTENTIAL. AND HE HELPS ZUCKERBERG DEVELOP A STRATEGY WHICH IS THIS KIND OF -- IT'S LIKE THE ROMAN EMPIRE. ZUCKERBERG TRIED TO GROW AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, TO DOMINATE THIS NETWORK THAT IS FACEBOOK. AND ULTIMATELY, OF COURSE, SUCCEEDED, YOU KNOW, 3 BILLION USERS, IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT FACEBOOK IS THE MOST POWERFUL, YOU KNOW, MEDIA COMPANY IN HUMAN HISTORY. >> WELL, IT'S INTRIGUING TO ME, WHAT WERE THE EFFECTS THAT PETER TEAL HAD BEYOND JUST THE INVESTMENT OF CASH INTO MARK IN A WAY YOU SEE SIMILARITIES IN THEM HOW THEY THINK OF THE WORLD WHERE THEY THINK OF THEIR PRODUCT, WHAT THEY THINK IS THE ACCEPTABLE AND NOT ACCEPTABLE REACH OF GOVERNMENT.EAH, ABSOLUS WHY TEAL MATTERS BECAUSE HE'S NOT -- IT'S NOT JUST A MONEY MAN. IF IT WAS JUST A QUESTION OF MONEY, YOU KNOW, HE ISN'T THAT RICH. HE HAS MAYBE $10 BILLION, MAYBE I'M SAYING RICH COMPARED TO, YOU KNOW, THE JEFF BEZOS OR SOMETHING, OR ZUCKERBERG. BUT HE DID CREATE THIS BUSINESS PHILOSOPHY, AND THE PHILOSOPHY IS BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, THE PHILOSOPHY OF DISRUPTION. IT'S THE IDEA THAT COMPANIES SHOULD GROW AS BIG AS POSSIBLE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, TEAL TALKS ABOUT MONOPOLY NOT AS SOMETHING TO BE AVOIDED, KIND OF HOW MOST CAPITALISTS THINK ABOUT IT, BUT AS THE END POINT OF BUSINESS, THE THING THAT ALL ENTREPRENEURS SHOULD STRIVE FOR. WHICH IS A REALLY, YOU KNOW, RADICAL KIND OF FAR OUT THERE SUGGESTION. AND HE ALSO TALKS, YOU KNOW, AT OF BENDING THE RULES. IMPORTANCE OF BREAKING NORMS. AND IT'S NOT JUST THAT THE NORMS -- IT'S NOT JUST THAT BREAKING THE RULES IS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS INCIDENTALLY WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU ACCIDENTALLY RUN AFOUL OF THE LAW, IT'S ALMOST THAT DOING SO IS A GOOD THING AND THAT IT CREATES SOME VIRTUE. AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE DEFINITELY SEEN KIND OF PLAY OUT OVER AND OVER AGAIN, NOT JUST WITH FACEBOOK, BUT WITH MANY OF THESE BIG COMPANIES. >> THERE'S ALSO A LOT OF MOVEMENT RIGHT NOW TO TRY AND REGULATE BIG TECH. AND INTERESTINGLY PETER TEAL IS PUTTING MONEY BEHIND SOME OF THE VERY CANDIDATES THAT COULD THREATEN, FOR EXAMPLE, WELL, HIM SITTING ON THE BOARD OF FACEBOOK. RIGHT, WHICH WOULD BE A BIG TECH COMPANY THAT WOULD BE SQUARELY IN THE RADARS OF CONGRESS IF THIS KIND OF THING PASSED. >> HE'S BACKING THESE TWO SENATE CANDIDATES, ONE IN ARIZONA, AND ONE IN OHIO, AND THEY ARE BOTH TURNING, YOU KNOW, MARK ZUCKERBERG INTO A POLITICAL PUNCHING BAG. I THINK IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION TO ASK, YOU KNOW, WHY IS HE STILL ON THE BOARD OF FACEBOOK? AND I THINK THERE ARE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT POSSIBLE EXPLANATIONS BUT ONE THING HE'S BEEN ABLE TO DO ON THE BOARD OF FACEBOOK IS KIND OF NUDGE MARK ZUCKERBERG IN THIS POLITICAL DIRECTION, IN THE DIRECTION OF AS CONSERVATIVES SEE IT, NOT DISCRIMINATING, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, AGAINST CONSERVATIVE WORLD VIEWS AND BEING ON THE FACEBOOK BOARD IS AN IMPORTANT POSITION OF INFLUENCE AND POWER. DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATIONS THIS BROKER BETWEEN MARK ZUCKERBERG AND DONALD TRUMP, ARGUABLY LIKE THE TWO MOST POWERFUL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD, OR TWO OF THE MOST POWERFUL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.L'S PERSONAL WEALTS ALSO COME INTO THE SPOTLIGHT RECENTLY, A LOT OF US ARE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT AN IRA IS, OR A ROTH IRA, WE SOCK AWAY A LITTLE BIT EVERY MONTH IF WE CAN, AND HIS ACCOUNT HAS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN IT, AND ALL OF THE PROFITS THAT IT'S MAKING WILL BE TAX FREE. HOW DID WE GET TO THAT? >> YEAH, SO THAT'S -- THAT IS A QUIRK OF THE ROTH IRA, WHICH IS THIS KIND OF REALLY NOT A -- PRETTY MUCH LITTLE NOTICED INVESTMENT KIND OF AN INVESTMENT ACCOUNT CREATED IN THE '90s, YOU USED POST PAX DOLLARS AND ANY GAINS ARE TAX FREE. THE ROTH WAS FOR MIDDLE CLASS AND LOWER MIDDLE CLASS TAXPAYERS. IT WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE A HUGE IMPACT ON THE IRS'S ABILITY TO COLLECT TAX RECEIPTS. BUT TEAL VERY SAVVY OPERATOR, AN INCREDIBLE -- JUST LIKE A BRILLIANT CHESS PLAYER SORT OF FIGURED OUT THAT THERE'S THIS QUIRK WHICH IS THAT STARTUP FOUNDERS CAN GET SHARES AT A VERY LOW PRICE, LOW ENOUGH SO THAT HE WAS ABLE TO ACQUIRE A SIGNIFICANT CHUNK OF PAYPAL IN THIS OF HIS ROTH IRA WHILE STILL NOT VIOLATING THE RULES AROUND CONTRIBUTION LIMITS. THE CONTRIBUTION LIMITS AT THE TIME WERE $2,000 A YEAR. AND THAT MONEY, YOU KNOW, GREW. ENORMOUSLY.HE EVENTUALLY USED SF THOSE GAINS TO BUY SHARES IN PALENTEER AND TO BUY SHARES IN FACEBOOK, AND PROBABLY TO BUY SHARES IN OTHER COMPANIES. AND SO HE NOW HAS THIS ENORMOUS NEST EGG, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST $5 BILLION AS OF 2019, IT'S PROBABLY QUITE A BIT BIGGER NOW. AND ACCORDING TO THE TAX RULES AS THEY'RE WRITTEN, AND IF THE INTERPRETATIONS OF THE WAY THAT TEAL DID THIS DON'T CHANGE HE'S NEVER GOING TO PAY TAXES ON THAT AND THAT, I THINK, IS -- IT'S DEPENDING ON YOUR POINT OF VIEW, IT'S AN OUTRAGE, IT'S A CASE OF, YOU KNOW, KIND OF OLIGARCHIC BEHAVIOR BUT THE TEAL FANS WHO THINK THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN AND THAT BILLIONAIRES SHOULD BE ALLOWED MORE LEEWAY. IT'S SOMETHING TO BE APPLAUDED, LIKE HE GOT ONE OVER ON THE TAX MAN AND WE'VE SEEN THIS STRUCTURE HAS BEEN COPIED BY LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE. PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT REFORMING IT AND THERE ARE BILLS IN CONGRESS THAT COULD AFFECT TEAL'S TAX LIABILITY, AND THERE ARE ALSO SHIFTS, AGAIN, IN HOW THEY INTERPRET THESE RULES THAT COULD POTENTIALLY IMPACT TEAL. BUT IT'S NOT JUST TEAL WHO WOULD BE AFFECTED. IT WOULD BE LIKE A WHOLE BUNCH OF VERY, VERY ANGRY SILICON VALLEY BILLIONAIRES. IT WOULD BE A FORMIDABLE FIGHT IF IT HAPPENS. >> IT'S EVIDENT FROM READING THE BOOK THAT YOU SPENT A LOT OF TIME READING HIS ARTICLES, ARTICLES FROM THE STANFORD REVIEW, LECTURES HE'S GIVEN AND SO FORTH AND HE'S A PRETTY FAMOUSLY PRIVATE PERSON. AND I WONDER WHAT SORT OF COOPERATION OR LACK THEREOF THERE WAS IN SITTING DOWN WITH HIM FOR THE BOOK. >> YEAH, SO I APPROACHED THIS PROJECT, YOU KNOW, JOURNALISTICALLY. I TRIED TO TALK TO ANYONE WHO WORKED AT HIS COMPANIES, WHO KNEW HIM WELL, HIS FRIENDS, HIS FORMER CLASSMATES, AND OF COURSE PETER TEAL HIMSELF. AND I APPROACHED HIS P.R. PEOPLE EARLY ON IN THE PROCESS. AND WE HAD A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH AND THERE WAS ULTIMATELY AN OFF THE RECORD MEETING WITH PETER TEAL, BUT HE DID NOT COMMENT ON THE RECORD. AND THAT'S KIND OF IN KEEPING WITH HIS GENERAL POSITION TOWARDS THE PRESS, WHICH IS HE'S KEPT THE PRESS KIND OF AT ARM'S LENGTH. HE HAS TRIED TO, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY MANIPULATE THE PRESS IN VARIOUS WAYS, IN TERMS OF POSITIVE MANIPULATION, CREATING THIS IMAGE OF A -- YOU KNOW, THIS I AM SUPERMAN, AND ALSO OF COURSE THE SORT OF MORE -- WHAT YOU MIGHT THINK OF AS NEGATIVE MANIPULATION IN HIS LONG RUNNING BATTLE AGAINST GAWKER. >> THE BOOK IS CALLED THE CONTRARIAN. THANKS FOR JOINING. >> THANK YOU.