Amanpour and Company

AS THE WAR IN UKRAINE RAGES ON, RUSSIA MAY BE TURNING TO NORTH KOREA FOR NEW ARMS AND SUPPLIES ACCORDING TO THE U.S. KIM JONG UN IS REPORTEDLY PLANNING TO MEET PRESIDENT PUTIN IN RUSSIA, SOON.

OUR NEXT GUEST IS EXAMINING THE KIM DYNASTY, AND WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS FOR THE KINGDOM.

NOW, TIPPED TO BE HIS SUCCESSOR, KIM JONG UN'S SISTER HAS RISEN TO BE THE MOST POWERFUL WOMAN IN THE NATION.

KIM YO-JONG OVERSEES THE REGIME'S PROPAGANDA DEPARTMENT.

SHE HAS TAKEN A LEAD ON THE COUNTRY'S FOREIGN POLICY.

IN HIS NEW BOOK, "THE SISTER," TRACES HER SPECTACULAR RISE, AND IS JOINING HARRY TO DISCUSS THE KIM DYNASTY.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

FIRST, A LITTLE BIT OF NEWS THIS WEEK, THERE WERE REPORTS THAT KIM JONG UN COULD MEET WITH RUSSIA FOR A POSSIBLE ARMS DEAL.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF IT?

>> YES, AND IT WOULD MAKE SENSE.

ALTHOUGH, WHEN KIM JONG UN MET PUTIN FOR THE FIRST AND ONLY TIME, KIM JONG UN FELT, WELL, NOT PROPERLY RESPECTED BECAUSE PUTIN, THE NEXT DAY, FLEW DOWN TO BEIJING TO ATTEND A MAJOR CONFERENCE WHILE LEAVING HIS FOREIGN GUEST IN HIS HOME COUNTRY.

BUT, TODAY, WE ARE LIVING IN A DIFFERENT WORLD SINCE RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE, THE FORMER COLD WAR DYNAMICS OF MOSCOW, BEIJING, AND PYONGYANG STANDING USA, WITH JAPAN AND SOUTH KOREA ON ITS SIDE.

THAT DYNAMIC HAS RETURNED IN FULL FORCE, AND NATURAL INTEREST, OF COURSE, OVERRIDES ANY WOUNDED PRIDE, AND NORTH KOREA WANTS TO SELL ARMS TO RUSSIA, AND RUSSIA NEEDS THOSE NORTH KOREAN AMMUNITIONS AND ARTILLERY.

>> SO, NORTH KOREAN AMMUNITION AND ARTILLERY COULD BE USED IN EITHER BACKSTOPPING RUSSIA'S ARSENAL, OR ACTUALLY USED IN THE CONFLICT IN UKRAINE?

>> I THINK THE LATTER.

HAS QUITE REPEATEDLY ALLEGED, STATED THAT NORTH KOREA HAS BEEN SECRETLY SUPPLYING ARMS TO RUSSIA, SINCE FEBRUARY 2022.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO A POTENTIAL ARMS DEAL WITH RUSSIA, I MEAN, IS NORTH KOREA INTERESTED IN THIS, IN ANY PART, TO JUST BE A THORN IN THE SIDE OF THE WEST, IN ADDITION TO SELLING ARMS?

>> WELL, THAT IS THAT ELEMENT, TOO, OF COURSE.

NORTH KOREA WANTS TO BE TAKEN MORE SERIOUSLY.

ALTHOUGH, ALL OF NORTH KOREA'S INTERLOCKING, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES, TAKES NORTH KOREA QUITE SERIOUSLY, IN TERMS OF THEIR CAPABILITIES.

BUT, NORTH KOREA HAS ANOTHER AGENDA, WHICH IS TO SWAP AMMUNITION, ARTILLERY, AND SO LONG, IN RETURN FOR HIGHER MILITARY TECHNOLOGY.

ICBM TECHNOLOGY, SOME LONG- RANGE MISSILE TECHNOLOGY FROM RUSSIA.

SO, THESE NATIONAL INTERESTS ARE ON PAR FOR RUSSIA AND NORTH KOREA, THAT OVERRIDES ANY TENSIONS AND DIPLOMATIC PROTOCOL, ANY CONCERN OF VIOLATION OF SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS THAT EXCLUSIVELY, EXPLICITLY BEEN NORTH KOREA'S TESTING OF BALLISTIC MISSILES, BUT NORTH KOREA HAS COMPLETELY IGNORED SUCH RESOLUTIONS, AND ON OVER 100 OCCASIONS, HAVE EARLY 2022, AND WHAT DOES RUSSIA SAY?

NOTHING.

WHAT DOES CHINA SAY?

NOTHING.

IN FACT, THE TWO BIG NATIONS, RUSSIA AND CHINA, HAVE WORKED TOGETHER AND COOPERATED TO BLOCK ANY MOVEMENT WITHIN THE UN SECURITY COUNCIL, TO ISSUE EVEN A VERBAL CONDEMNATION OF NORTH KOREA.

>> SO, LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR NEW BOOK, THIS IS CALLED "THE SISTER."

IT IS A FASCINATING PROFILE OF SOMEONE THAT, HONESTLY, I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT.

WHAT WAS FASCINATING TO ME WAS THE ROLE YOU SAY SHE IS REALLY PLAYING INSIDE THE REGIME.

ALMOST MEETING FROM BEHIND.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT KIM YO-JONG?

>> WELL, THE SISTER OF THE CURRENT NORTH KOREAN DICTATOR, KIM JONG UN IS, TO ME, A FASCINATING FIGURE, BECAUSE OUT OF THIS BUFFOONISH, THIS WEIRD BRITISH, MALE, BUFFOONISH CONSTANCY THAT IS THE NORTH KOREAN LANDSCAPE, OUT OF THIS HAS RISEN A POWERFUL FEMALE LEADER, A CO-CRIME BOSS OF HER FAMILY REGIME IN THE NORTH KOREAN DYNASTY, WITH HER FINGER ON THE PROVERBIAL NUCLEAR BUTTON, THAT IS.

KIM JONG UN HAS ISSUED SEVERAL WRITTEN STATEMENTS, THREATENING TO PREEMPTIVELY NUKE SOUTH KOREA, AND IN TERMS OF CHECKS AND BALANCES IN NORTH KOREA, THERE IS NOTHING OF THAT KIND TO SPEAK OF.

IT IS AN ABSOLUTIST KIND OF STYLE MONARCHY, PRETENDING TO BE A REPUBLIC.

SO, SHE IS A REALLY POWERFUL WOMAN WHO HAS, WELL, AMBITIONS.

>> YOU MENTIONED IN THEORY, SHE COULD DECIDE WHO IS MONITORED, PROMOTED, REWARDED, BANISHED, OR EVEN TIED UP TO BE EXECUTED IN THE TOWNSQUARE OR IN A SPORTS STADIUM BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

SHE HAS AN OFFICIAL TITLE, WHICH IS THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF PROPAGANDA AND AGITATION DEPARTMENT.

WHERE DOES SHE GET THIS POWER FROM?

>> FROM HER BROTHER, AND IT HAS BEEN THE PREROGATIVE OF THE CURRENT AND PREVIOUS AND SO- CALLED LEADERS.

KIM JONG UN IS THE THIRD GENERATIONAL SUPREME LEADER OF HIS NATION, AND ALL THREE LEADERS HAVE ENJOYED SUCH PREROGATIVES.

MY CONTENTION THAT KIM YO-JONG NOW HAS THAT POWER, AS DEPUTIZED BY HER BROTHER, COMES FROM REPORTS WITHIN NORTH KOREA, FROM DIFFERENT REGIONS OF THE COUNTRY, THAT KIM JONG UN HAS BEEN ISSUING EXECUTION ORDERS OF OFFICIALS AND SENIORMOST OFFICIALS FOR GETTING ON HER NERVES.

SHE DOESN'T LIKE THE WAY SO AND SO LOOKS AT HER, OR TALKS TO HER.

SO, THAT KIND OF CAPRICIOUS AND CRUEL POWER SPEAKS OF THE >> YOU DESCRIBE IN THE BOOK HOW HER KIND OF BRAND HAS INCREASED IN VISIBILITY SINCE THE DEATH OF HER FATHER.

HOW SO?

>> WELL, KIM JONG UN HAS RAPIDLY ELEVATED, FORMALLY ELEVATED HIS SISTER SINCE THE ONSET OF COVID IN EARLY 2020, SINCE MARCH 3rd, 2020, KIM YO- JONG HAS ISSUED OVER 40, 40, WRITTEN STATEMENTS, SAYING THAT SHE IS RUNNING HER NATION'S FOREIGN POLICY FOR SOUTH KOREA, THE U.S., AND BEYOND.

AND WE SEE A STREAK, A VERY UNIQUE STREAK OF LUCRATIVE, FILE, SARCASTIC NOTES IN ALL OF THESE WRITTEN STATEMENTS.

SO, THAT IS HER SIGNATURE, AND SHE HAS CALLED PRESIDENT BIDEN, THE CURRENT SOUTH KOREAN PRESIDENT AS WELL AS HIS PREDECESSOR, ALL KINDS OF NASTY >> YOU KNOW: THE FIRST TIME A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT A VIEW OF WHO SHE WAS WAS DURING THE 2018 OLYMPIC GAMES.

SHE WASN'T THERE FOR THE SPORT, SHE WAS THERE FOR THE POLITICAL NAVIGATION OF IT ALL.

YOU OUTLINE HERE THAT SHE HAD SOME OF HER REQUESTS MET, SOME OF THE PRECONDITIONS.

TELL US WHAT SOME OF THOSE WORK?

>> SO, KIM YO-JONG MADE HER INTERNATIONAL DEBUT ON A VERY GRAND STATE, THE OLYMPICS THAT SOUTH KOREA HOSTED IN FEBRUARY 2018.

SHE WAS QUITE --WELL, THE SOUTH KOREAN PUBLIC AND THE GOVERNMENT, IT SEEMED, WERE QUITE MESMERIZED BY HER PHYSICAL PRESENCE IN SOUTH KOREA.

BUT, SINCE THEN, KIM YO-JONG HAS GONE THROUGH SORT OF A METAMORPHOSIS, A TRANSFORMATION FROM THE PREVIOUS CURRENT YEAR'S PRINCESS FROM PYONGYANG TO A FOUL MOUTH, MEAN FEMALE DESPOTISM.

SINCE 2020, KIM YO-JONG HAS ISSUED VARIOUS CONDEMNATIONS OF SOUTH KOREAN LEADERSHIP, AND MADE AN EXCLUSIVE DEMAND THAT IS TO COME UP WITH A CRIMINAL LAW FOR SOUTH KOREA TO COME UP WITH A CRIMINAL LAW THAT CRIMINALIZES SENDING ANYTHING, LEAFLETS, TOOTHPASTE, A PAIR OF SOCKS, OR ANYTHING ACROSS THE BORDER FROM SOUTH KOREA INTO THE NORTH.

NOW, HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS, MANY OF THEM ARE NORTH KOREAN IMMIGRANTS WHO HAVE RESET IN THE SOUTH, HAVE BEEN FOR MANY YEARS, WITH SUCH AMENITIES, ONE DOLLAR BILLS, THE BIBLE, AND SO ON, INTO THE NORTH.

RAISING AWARENESS ON THE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN NORTH KOREA.

OF COURSE, THE NORTH KOREAN REGIME DOES NOT LIKE THIS, AND IN JUNE, 2020, KIM YO-JONG, UNDER HER OWN NAME SAID, COME UP WITH A LAW, CRIMINALIZES SUCH EXPLETIVES, AND SEND THESE PEOPLE TO JAIL.

WITHIN HOURS, VARIOUS SOUTH KOREAN GOVERNMENT MINISTRIES SAID, OKAY, YES, WE WILL WORK ON IT.

AND INDEED, THE LAW WAS PASSED A FEW MONTHS LATER, IN LATE 2020.

A SENIOR BRITISH PARLIAMENTARIAN HAS COINED THE TERM GAG LAW TO REFER TO THIS KIM JONG UN DICTATED LAW.

SO, HER PRESENCE, HER COMMAND, HAS BEEN MET BY THE PREVIOUS SOUTH KOREAN GOVERNMENT, WITH DIFFERENCE.

>> SO, WHAT IS HER ROLE WHEN IT COMES TO DIPLOMATIC THINGS?

BECAUSE IN 2018, IT WAS A HISTORIC MEETING BETWEEN THE NORTH AND SOUTH.

THE FIRST LEADER TO DO SO IN DECADES.

THAT WAS ALSO THE YEAR THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP MET WITH THE NORTH KOREAN LEADER.

SO, WHERE DOES SHE FIT?

WHAT IS HER ROLE?

>> WELL, I THINK KIM YO-JONG IS AN UNPRECEDENTED, DIPLOMATIC WEAPON IN THE NORTH KOREAN DIPLOMATIC TOOLBOX.

WHY?

BY VIRTUE, SIMPLY BY VIRTUE OF SHE WAS BARELY 30 YEARS OLD.

AND HER GENDER, YOU KNOW, SHE BRINGS THIS UNPRECEDENTED, SOFTER, FEMININE GLOW TO THE VERY BRUTISH, COLD, IMAGE THAT IS HER DESPOTIC REGIME.

SO, I THINK THE TENDENCY, THE LATENT PATRONIZATION, THE TENDENCY TO PATRONIZE YOUNG WOMEN, SEXISM, LATE IN MANY OF US, I WOULD SUGGEST MEN AND WOMEN, IS AN ADVANTAGE TO THE KIM REGIME.

YOU KNOW, IT IS EASIER TO STOMACH, TO SWALLOW INSULTS COMING FROM A YOUNG, PRETTY WOMAN, THEN A LESS PHOTOGENIC AND DOWN LOOKING BROTHER.

SO, SHE CASTS A SOFTER GLOW ON HER REGIME.

WHAT SHE SAYS SEEMS TO STRIKE MANY AS GENUINE AND REAL.

SO, WHAT SHE DID IN 2018 TO SET THE STAGE FOR HER BROTHER'S DEBUT ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE, IN HIS CAMPAIGN TO WIN MANY CONCESSIONS FROM THE U.S. AND FROM SOUTH KOREA AND OTHER COUNTRIES.

SHE HAS TAKEN ON THIS ROLE.

I THINK SHE RELISHES IT, BEING UNDER THE SPOTLIGHT, ISSUING VARIOUS CONDEMNATIONS AGAINST WORLD LEADERS, STICKING HER NATION'S UNDYING SUPPORT THAT NORTH KOREA WILL ALWAYS STAND IN THE SAME TRENCHES AS THE HEROIC SOLDIERS AND PEOPLE OF RUSSIA, REFERRING TO THE INVASION OF UKRAINE.

SO, I THINK SHE IS QUITE ENJOYING HERSELF BEING OUT THERE.

>> THERE WAS THE CASE OF THE AMERICAN PALESTINE, AND I WONDER, GAVE A FORCED CONFESSION, AND YOU SAY THIS HAD KIM YO-JONG'S FINGERPRINTS ALL OVER IT.

EXPLAIN?

>> SO, AT THE TIME, KIM YO-JONG HAD BEEN RUNNING HER NATION'S VERY POWERFUL PROPAGANDA AND AGITATION DEPARTMENT.

SINCE 2014, WE HAVE SEEN SOME REALLY VILE, HOMOPHOBIC, RACIST, SEXIST INSULTS HURLED AGAINST A VERY RENOWNED, RETIRED JUDGE FROM AUSTRALIA, WHO IS OPENLY GAY, AGAINST PRESIDENT OBAMA, VERY RACIST, VIAL AGAINST PRESIDENT OBAMA, AND ALSO AGAINST THE DEN SOUTH KOREAN FEMALE PRESIDENT, THE FIRST EVER FEMALE ELECTED, IN EAST ASIA.

WAS DETAINED, TAKEN HOSTAGE IN JANUARY 2016 WHILE ON A VISIT TO NORTH KOREA, AND THEN NORTH KOREA MADE ALL OF THESE TRUMPED UP CHARGES.

OF COURSE, GIVING A COURSE CONFESSION AND SO ON.

AND BECAUSE KIM YO-JONG WAS IN CHARGE, THE DE FACTO LEADER OF HIS DEPARTMENT, THE PROPAGANDA AND AGITATION, I SEE VERY SINISTER ATTEMPTS TO MAKE THIS UNDER THE OFFICES OF THE CIA, HOW HIS METHODIST CHURCH, LOCAL CHURCH, PROMISED TO GIVE HIM $200,000 FOR DOING THINGS TO THE NORTH KOREAN REGIME, TO INSULT THE NORTH KOREAN REGIME.

NONE OF THIS IS TRUE, AND A FEDERAL JUDGE IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ISSUED A RULING FINDING NORTH KOREA GUILTY OF HOSTAGE TAKING, OF TORTURE, AND OF ILLEGAL, EXTRAJUDICIAL KILLINGS, AND I PARTICIPATED IN THAT LAWSUIT AS AN EXPERT WITNESS AND STUDIED THE ISSUE CAREFULLY.

SO, YES, THAT WHOLE UNPLEASANT, VERY CRUEL CASE HAS HER SIGNATURE ALL OVER IT, I WOULD SEE TEST.

>> DO YOU THINK THE FATHER WAS MORE IMPRESSED WITH THE DAUGHTER?

AND IF SO, WHY NOT MAKE HER THE AIR IN THE FIRST PLACE?

WHO HAVE SPOKEN WITH THE LATE NORTH KOREAN LEADER, KIM JONG UN, THE FATHER, KIM JONG UN SAID THAT IF HIS DAUGHTER, KIM YO-JONG, WHO IS THE YOUNGEST CHILD, THE YOUNGEST DAUGHTER, OBVIOUSLY, IF SHE WERE A BOY, HE WOULD HAVE ANOINTED HER AS THE HEIR.

>> WELL, NORTH KOREA, IN PRETENSE, COULD BE A COMMUNIST SYSTEM WHERE THERE IS GENDER EQUALITY.

THE REALITY IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

IT IS A MALE, CHAUVINISTIC MALE- DOMINATED, PATRIARCHAL SOCIETY.

EVEN THE NOTION OF A FEMALE SUPREME LEADER IS QUITE JARRING FOR ORDINARY NORTH KOREANS, AS WELL AS THE LEADERSHIP.

BUT, I CONTEND FOR NOW, FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE OVER THE NEXT 10, 15 YEARS OR SO, UNTIL ONE OF KIM JONG UN'S CHILDREN COMES OF AGE, REACHES ADULTHOOD, THERE ARE SIMPLY NO OTHER VIABLE CANDIDATES TO TAKE OVER, IN CASE KIM JONG UN OTHER THAN HIS SISTER, KIM YO- JONG, BECAUSE IT IS A ROYALTY, A MONARCHY, YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN POWER WITHIN THE FAMILY, AND KIM YO-JONG IS THE ONLY VIABLE CANDIDATE IN THAT SHE IS CAPABLE, SHE IS OUT THERE VERY MUCH, AND SHE IS AMBITIOUS, AND SHE, AGAIN, IS THE ONLY MEMBER OF THE FAMILY, THE DYNASTY.

>> SO, I HAVE TO ASK THIS FROM A REPORTER'S PERSPECTIVE.

THERE ARE NO DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS, THERE ARE NO INDEPENDENT JOURNALISTS, IT IS STILL AN INCREDIBLE ENCLOSED SOCIETY.

HOW DO YOU GET ENOUGH MATERIAL, HOW DO YOU FIND OUT ENOUGH INFORMATION TO WRITE A PROFILE OF THIS WOMAN?

>> WITH GREAT DIFFICULTY.

I HAVE LOOKED OVER EVERY SINGLE STATEMENT, AND I BELIEVE, EVERY REFERENCE TO KIM YO-JONG IN KOREAN, THAT IS NORTH KOREAN DOCUMENTS AS WELL AS IN SOUTH KOREA, WITH THE HELP OF RESEARCH ASSISTANCE, AND ALSO EVERY SINGLE REFERENCE TO HER IN CHINA, IN TAIWAN, OBVIOUSLY ALL ENGLISH LANGUAGE SOURCES.

AND I HAVE BEEN STUDYING NORTH KOREA AND TEACHING ABOUT IT FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS.

SO, I HAVE WATCHED HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF NORTH KOREAN DOCUMENTARY, AND I SAW THAT HER BODY LANGUAGE AND THE BODY LANGUAGE OF OTHER OFFICIALS IN KIM JONG UN'S PRESENCE AND IN HIS SISTER'S PRESENCE IS BASICALLY THE SAME.

THEY TREMBLE, THEY AVERT THEIR GAZE.

IT IS CONSIDERED RUDE, IF NOT CONFRONTATIONAL, FOR AN UNDERLING TO LOOK AT THE SUPERIOR RIGHT IN THE EYE, FOR MORE THAN A COUPLE OF SECONDS.

SO, THE WAY NORTH KOREAN OFFICIALS BEHAVE IN THE PRESENCE OF KIM JONG UN AND HIS SISTER SAYS A LOT ABOUT HOW THEY VIEW THE SISTER AS ALMOST EQUAL TO KIM JONG UN HIMSELF.

>> THE BOOK IS CALLED "THE SISTER."

MOST DANGEROUS WOMAN IN THE WORLD.

AUTHOR SUNG-YOON LEE, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.