Amanpour and Company

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> WHENEVER THEY ATTACK, WE RESPOND MORE SEVERELY AND MORE HEAVILY.

>> THE U. S. AND IRAN --I SPEAK WITH THE FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER JEAN-NOEL BARROT, ABOUT THE CONSENSUS.

>> WE DARE TOGETHER.

WE DID PRESS CONFERENCES TOGETHER.

WE DID EVERYTHING TOGETHER.

>> ONE OF THE GREATEST RIVALRIES IN SPORTS.

CHRIS EVERT AND MARTINA NAVRATILOVA.

>> LINEAR TD WILL BE HERE.

>> WALTER ISAACSON SPEAKS TO BYRON ALLEN.

> >> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I AM CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN PARIS.

PRESIDENT TRUMP THREATENED TO HIT HURON VERY HARD TONIGHT, SAYING THE U. S. COULD TAKE CONTROL OF THE ISLAND HOPE THAT HANDLES MOST OF IRAN'S EXPORTS.

BEFORE WALKING THAT BACK AND SING THIS ATTACK ACTUALLY WOULDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE NEGOTIATIONS ARE CONTINUING.

THE THREAT CAME DAYS BEFORE G7 LEADERS WILL MEET HERE IN FRANCE WITH HOW TO END FELT WAR ON IRAN EXPECTED TO DOMINATE THE SUMMIT.

PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL JOIN THE WORLD'S MAJOR ECONOMIES OFFSIDE INVITED LEADERS FROM THE MIDDLE EAST AS ENERGY PRICES RISE AND RATTLE GLOBAL MARKETS.

BUT EVEN AS THEY GATHER, THAT MAJOR EUROPEAN OR SPARKED BY RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE HAS TAKEN A BACKSEAT.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S PUSH FOR A QUICK PEACE DEAL STALLED WEEKS AGO.

I SPEAK WITH --AND THAT A DEAL MIGHT BE OFFERED RIGHT NOW.

FORMER MINISTER DE VILLEPIN, WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> WE HAVE A BIG DELIGHT SO I HOPE THAT DOESN'T INTERFERE WITH OUR CONVERSATION, THE LET ME FIRST ASK YOU BECAUSE WE ARE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF WHAT SEEMS TO BE YET ANOTHER CRUCIAL TURNING POINT.

TRUMP AND IRAN FACING OFF AGAINST EACH OTHER.

THE FRENCH HOSTING ALL THE WORLD'S MAJOR ECONOMIES, G7 COUNTRIES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK EUROPE AND ITS G7 ALLIES WILL SAY TO TRUMP WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE BEST?

THING THAT COULD EMERGE FROM THIS MEETING REGARDING THE CRISES THAT ARE FACED RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, WHAT WE CAN SAY RIGHT NOW IS THAT WE ARE SEEING THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT U. S. AND ISRAELI INVOLVEMENT IN THE GULF.

IF I CAN'T --THIS IMAGE, I WOULD PUT IT THIS WAY.

IT IS A GEOPOLITICAL --WE ARE SEEING THE CHAIN REACTION OF THIS BIG EVENT, AND WHAT WE SEE IS A MELTDOWN OF THE CORE REACTOR THAT IS THE U. S. LEADERSHIP, AND WE ARE SEEING A --THAT COULD --ANYMORE -- CONTROL IT.

FORFEITS THE WAR, ANOTHER INTERVENTION WILL FEED MORE INTERVENTION, AND WE ALL KNOW THE LESSON FROM HISTORY AND MANY CENTURIES AGO, THAT THIS CANNOT GO THROUGH FOURTH AND THREAT --THIS IS A VERY STRONG ILLUSION -- DONALD TRUMP.

>> SO YOU'RE SAYING BASICALLY THAT THE U. S. FOREIGN POLICY BASED ON STRENGTH, AS EVEN AS THEY HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT PUBLICLY ESPECIALLY AFTER THE CAPTURE OF NICOLAS MADURO, YOU ARE SAYING IT'S NOT GOING TO ACHIEVE THE ENDS THAT THEY WANT TO ACHIEVE.

SO WITH DRUMS APPEARING TO WANT TO GET OUT OF THIS WAR AND IT NOT HAPPENING YET, WHAT DO YOU THINK EUROPE CAN DO TO HELP HIM OUT OF THE WAR?

DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD TRY, HAVING NOT TRIED AND NOT TAKEN PART IN THE ACTUAL WAR?

>> WELL I THINK THE EUROPEANS HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF THE BALANCE OF FORCES IN THE REGION.

WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT MOST OF THE GULF COUNTRIES WANT PEACE.

THEY HAVE SEEN THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE U. S. STRIKES AS WELL AS THE ISRAEL STRIKES ON IRAN.

THE CONSEQUENCE HAS BEEN AN EVEN MORE TITAN REGIME.

IT HAS STRENGTHENED THE STRONGEST IN THE REGIME.

THE REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS.

SO WE ARE FAR AWAY FROM GETTING RID OF THIS AWFUL REGIME AS WE HAVE SEEN DURING THE FIRST WEEKS OF THE YEAR.

AND WE HAVE TO FACE THIS REALITY.

SO THE FIRST THING I BELIEVE FOR THE EUROPEANS IS TO HAVE AN IMMEDIATE AND VERY VIABLE CEASE- FIRE IN ALL ACTIVE FRANCE, WHICH MEANS GAZA, WHICH MEANS LEBANON, AND OF COURSE, IRAN.

THE SECOND POINT I THINK WHICH IS KEY IS TO HAVE FREE LITIGATION IN THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

SUPPORT THE SOVEREIGNTY OF LEBANON.

YOU WILL NOT HAVE PEACE IN THE GULF IF LEBANON IS NOT LINKED.

BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN IRAN AND HEZBOLLAH.

WE HAVE TO FACE THE GLOBALITY.

WE HAVE TO FIND A GLOBAL REGIONAL DIPLOMATIC FRAMEWORK, AND THE EUROPEANS HAVE A STRONG UNDERSTANDING OF THE SITUATION IN THE REGION AS WELL AS A VERY GOOD KNOWLEDGE OF THE NUCLEAR QUESTION, WHICH IS OF COURSE AT THE CENTER OF ALL THE PREOCCUPATION.

WE NEED TO ADDRESS AND ENTER INTO AN IMPORTANT NUCLEAR NEGOTIATION AS WELL AS A NEGOTIATION ON THE MISSILES AND THE PROXIES OF THE REGION.

AND DONALD TRUMP TODAY DOESN'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO --SUCH NEGOTIATIONS.

HE DOES NOT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE --DOES NOT HAVE THE PATIENCE TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO --HOW TO GO FORWARD.

>> WOW.

I INTERRUPTED YOU A LITTLE BIT BUT YOU SAID, DOESN'T HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE, DOESN'T HAVE THE PATIENCE, OR I THINK THE DIPLOMATIC TEAMS TO TAKE THIS FORWARD.

>> EXACTLY.

>> THAT PUTS A LOT OF BURDEN ON EUROPEAN LEADERS, WHO HAVE BEEN REALLY TRYING TO CATCH UP WITH DONALD TRUMP'S POLICIES, WHETHER IT'S TARIFFS, WHETHER IT IS THESE WARS, WHETHER IT'S ESSENTIALLY DROPPING THE LION'S SHARE OF AMERICAN SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE, PUTTING IT IN EUROPE'S HANDS.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE WAR IN UKRAINE, WHICH IS EUROPE'S WAR NOW.

WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT IS HEADED?

CLEARLY, THAT UKRAINIANS ARE MAKING QUITE IMPORTANT STRIDES.

WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT IS HEADED, AND HOW DO YOU THINK PUTIN WILL BE CONVINCED TO COME TO THE BARGAINING TABLE?

>> YEAH.

WELL, WHAT WE SEE TODAY IN UKRAINE IS THE FACT THAT EUROPEAN HAS BEEN ABLE TO TAKE THE LEAD CONCERNING THE SITUATION IN UKRAINE.

MOST OF THE SUPPORT GIVEN TO UKRAINE GOES THROUGH EUROPE MORE THAN 200 MILLION EUROS HAS BEEN SPENT SINCE THE START OF THE WAR.

AND THAT U. S. HAS BEEN ONLY SUPPORTING FOR LITTLE MORE THAN 100 BILLION EUROS.

SO THERE IS AN IMBALANCE AND TODAY, MOST OF THE COOPERATION OF THE U. S. IN THE DIRECTION OF UKRAINE HAS STOPPED, SO THE EUROPEANS HAVE SHOWN SOME CREDIBILITY IN THE ABILITY -- IN THEIR CAPACITY TO MASTER THE SITUATION WITH --RUSSIA IS FACING MANY DIFFICULTIES IN THE RUSSIAN SOCIETY, AND KYIV HAS SHOWN ITS ABILITY TO STRIKE ALL OVER RUSSIA, AND IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS, WHERE THE ECONOMIC FORUM WAS TAKING PLACE, THAT MEANS THAT THERE IS A POSSIBILITY TO CONVINCE VLADIMIR PUTIN IF DONALD TRUMP PLAYS HIS PART, AND IF DONALD TRUMP UNDERSTANDS THAT IT IS NOT GIVEN THAT UKRAINE SHOULD ACCEPT THE BASIC CONDITIONS OF RUSSIA TO NEGOTIATE.

UKRAINE TODAY IS IN A MUCH BETTER POSITION, AND WE HAVE TO PUT A LOT OF WEIGHT ON RUSSIA AND VLADIMIR PUTIN.

>> AND BRIEFLY, THE LAST QUESTION, THE BRITISH DEFENSE MINISTER RESIGNED TODAY, ESSENTIALLY SAYING THAT THE GOVERNMENT DOES --IS NOT DOING AS MUCH AS IT NEEDS TO DO TO BOOST BRITAIN'S DEFENSES TO MEET THESE KINDS OF CHALLENGES AND TO MAKE UP FOR THE U. S. DEMANDS AND THEIR PULLBACK.

WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT EUROPE, OTHER IT'S BRITAIN, FRANCE, GERMANY, THEIR ABILITY TO TAKE THEIR OWN DEFENSE LEAD?

>> WELL, IN THE LAST YEAR, ALL THE EUROPEANS HAVE INCREASED CONSIDERABLY THEIR BUDGET ON DEFENSE, AND THEY HAVE UNDERSTOOD --THEY HAVE BEEN AWARE THAT THEY NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN NEEDS CONCERNING SECURITY ISSUES.

AND I THINK FOR THE LAST YEAR, WHAT HAS BEEN DONE IS QUITE IMPORTANT, AND EVERYBODY SHOULD APPRECIATE THIS MOVEMENT.

OF COURSE, WE NEED TO DO MORE AND WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE U. S. SUPPORT IS IN QUESTION TODAY, AND WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN DEFENSE, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN, AS ALLIES WE DON'T WORK WITH THE U. S. AND DO OUR BEST.

>> FORMER PRIME MINISTER DOMINIQUE DE VILLEPIN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> NOW, AND WAS ONE OF SPORTS GREATEST RIVALRIES.

CHRIS EVERT AND MARTINA NAVRATILOVA.

TWO OF THE MOST OUTSTANDING TENNIS PLAYERS TO PICK UP A RACKET.

THROUGHOUT THE 70s AND 80s, THEY LIT UP THE COURTS, ENDING THEIR CAREERS ON 18 GRAND SLAMS EACH, AFTER YEARS OF BATTLING IT OUT ACROSS THE NET, LIFE AFTER TENNIS SAW THEIR FRIENDSHIP GROW, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY BOTH FACED A NEW KIND OF OPPONENT AT THE SAME TIME.

THAT WAS CANCER.

IT IS ALL DOCUMENTED IN A NEW NETFLIX FILM.

TAKE A LOOK AT THE TRAILER.

>> FIRST GAME, FINAL SET.

>> EVERY TIME I PRACTICED, I WOULD BE PRACTICING SHOT THAT HOPEFULLY I WILL USE AGAINST HER.

>> I'VE DONE WHAT I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO DO.

RIGHT NOW I'M THE NUMBER ONE TENNIS PLAYER IN THE WORLD.

>> THAT WAS THE FIRST TYPE OF REVERIE THAT SPARKED THAT TYPE OF INTEREST AND GAVE LEGITIMACY TO THE WOMEN'S GAME.

>> IN THE BEGINNING, I WAS FINE FOR ME TO BE FRIENDS WITH HER BECAUSE I WAS BETTER THAN HER.

>> I KNEW THAT I NEEDED TO BE MORE OF A KILLER INSTINCT.

>> IT WAS THE LOWEST OF LOWS IN OUR RELATIONSHIP.

>> SHE IS THE ONE I HAD TO BE TO GET TO NUMBER ONE.

>> THEY DID SOME DAMAGE TO EACH OTHER EMOTIONALLY.

>> IF YOU WANT TO BE GREAT, YOU GIVE UP THINGS.

>> SOMETIMES IT TAKES TERRIBLE THINGS TO HAPPEN FOR YOU TO REALIZE HOW YOU REALLY FEEL ABOUT THINGS.

>> THE GOAL IS TO GET FREE OF CANCER.

>> THE SECOND TIME REALLY HIT HOME HOW PRESCIENT --PRECIOUS EVERY MOMENT IS.

HOW PRECIOUS LIFE IS.

>> YOU NEVER KNOW HOW MUCH LIFE IS GOING TO HIT YOU, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

>> THE DOCUMENTARY DEBUTED AT THE TRIBECA FILM FESTIVAL IN NEW YORK LAST NIGHT.

I SAT DOWN WITH BOTH EVERT AND NAVRATILOVA.

HERE IS OUR CONVERSATION.

>> MARTINA NAVRATILOVA, CHRIS EVERT, WELCOME.

I DON'T KNOW WHY I SAY WELCOME BECAUSE THIS IS YOUR STUDIO.

>> THIS IS HER STUDIO.

MINE IS ACROSS THE POND.

>> HOW DOES IT FEEL BEING HERE WHERE YOU DID SOME OF YOUR GREATEST GLORY?

>> IT FEELS GREAT.

>> IT BETTER.

>> YOU KNOW, I'M WATCHING THESE WOMEN.

I JUST REMEMBER MYSELF OUT ON THE COURT, AND YES, THE CONDITIONS ARE DIFFERENT.

THE RACKETS ARE DIFFERENT.

THE POWER.

THERE'S MORE POWER.

THERE IS SHOTMAKING AND MORE ATHLETICISM BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE WAY YOU PLAY ON CLAY REMAINS THE SAME.

>> THE EMOTIONS ARE THE SAME.

>> AND WHAT ARE THE EMOTIONS?

>> WELL, YOU RUN THE GAMUT.

SOMETIMES IT HAPPENS IN ONE GAME.

YOU CAN GO FROM TOTAL EUPHORIA TO BEING SO DEPRESSED AND EMOTIONAL.

NOWADAYS THEY GOT A LOT OF HELP FROM THE COACHES.

WE HAVE TO FIGURE IT OUT BY OURSELVES.

>> LET'S FACE IT.

YOU WERE THE EMOTIONAL ONE.

YOU WERE THE FIRE.

>> YOU THINK?

>> AND YOU THE ICE.

>> I WONDER HOW YOU FELT ACTUALLY ABOUT BEING LABELED THIS RUTHLESS ICE MAIDEN?

>> WELL, AT WIMBLEDON, THEY LABELED ME THAT WHEN I WENT OVER AT 17 YEARS OLD, AND THEY COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY OR HOW A SCHOOLGIRL DIDN'T SHOW EMOTION AND WASN'T ACTING LIKE A GIRL.

YOU KNOW, AND I WAS VERY, YOU KNOW, MUCH, JUST UNEMOTIONAL AND I LEARNED AT A YOUNG AGE TO KEEP IT IN.

I LEARNED THAT IT JUST WORKED FOR ME.

MY DAD TOLD ME CUT DON'T ALLOW YOUR OPPONENT TO SEE IF YOU'RE UPSET OR SOMETHING BECAUSE THEY'LL USE IT TO THEIR ADVANTAGE AND SAY AHA, I'VE GOT HER.

I TOOK THAT THEORY TO HEART AND I WAS VERY PLACID AND JUST UNEMOTIONAL OUT THERE, AND VERY FOCUSED, AND THAT --IT WORKED FOR ME.

THAT WAS MY PERSONALITY AT THE TIME ON THE COURT, >> AND OBVIOUSLY IT WORKED FOR YOU TO LET IT ALL OUT.

>> I STILL HAVEN'T LEARNED HOW TO KEEP IT IN.

BUT I ALWAYS ADMIRED THAT.

I JUST COULDN'T RELATE BECAUSE I --YOU KNOW.

BUT I MANAGED TO CONTROL THE EMOTIONS.

YOU CAN SHOW THE MUSLIMS THEY DON'T CONTROL YOU.

IT'S OKAY TO GET UPSET, BUT NOT WHINY, AND I WAS WHINING AT THE BEGINNING.

>> MARTINA WOULD BE EMOTIONAL, WHEN HE OR WHATEVER AFTER THE POINT BUT THEN WHEN IT WAS TIME FOR THE NEXT POINT, SHE WOULD RESET VERY WELL.

>> HE SAID, AND IT'S IMPORTANT, BECAUSE MENTAL HEALTH IS A HUGE ASPECT OF EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW INCLUDING TENNIS INCLUDING ALL SPORTS --MANY FEMALE ATHLETES REALLY TAKE THEIR MENTAL HEALTH INTO ACCOUNT AND DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.

YOU WERE JUST SAYING THAT YOU GUYS NEVER HAD THAT LUXURY.

NEVER HAD THAT OPPORTUNITY.

>> I DIDN'T REALLY GET HELP UNTIL MY LATE 20s OR MID-20s.

A FRIEND SAID, YOU ARE JUST BEATING YOURSELF WHEN YOU GET UPSET.

I'M LIKE, OKAY.

THAT HELPED.

I DIDN'T REALLY DEAL WITH THE EMOTIONS AS WELL OR CERTAINLY DIDN'T GET HELP FROM THE OUTSIDE.

IT WAS UNUSUAL.

I WAS TALKING TO MY COACH --A COACH LATER IN HER CAREER.

CHRIS.

SHE HAD HEARD THAT AT HOME BUT FOR SIX YEARS I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A COACH.

>> THE PART OF THE DOCUMENTARY THAT IS SO INTERESTING --YOU CAME AWAY FROM CZECHOSLOVAKIA.

YOU DEFECTED.

YOU WON THE U. S. OPEN.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT WE DIDN'T KNOW THE LONELINESS, THE FACT THAT YOU HAD NO INFRASTRUCTURE, NO FAMILY INFRASTRUCTURE.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO TAKE THAT DECISION TO LEAVE YOUR PARENTS, TO LEAVE EVERYTHING YOU KNEW -- >> IT WAS A ONE-WAY TICKET.

THAT WAS THE HARD PART.

I DIDN'T KNOW IF I WOULD EVER GO BACK IF ANYTHING HAPPENED TO MY FAMILY, I COULDN'T GO BACK OR I COULD GO BACK AND I WOULD NOT GET OUT AGAIN, SO IT WAS A ONE-WAY STREET, AND MY PARENTS COULDN'T COME SEE ME.

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS REMARKABLE THAT AT THAT YOUNG OF AN AGE, YOU KNOW, 16, 17 YEARS OLD, SHE WANTED TO BE NUMBER ONE IN THE WORLD THAT DESPERATELY.

SHE KNEW SHE HAD THE TOWN.

ALL THE TALENT IN THE WORLD, AND SHE MADE THAT DECISION HERSELF TO MAKE THAT MOVE BECAUSE SHE KNEW SHE MOVED TO AMERICA, SHE COULD HAVE THE RESOURCES SHE NEEDED AND SHE COULD ACHIEVE HER GOAL, AND SHE DID.

YOU KNOW.

>> AND THEN SOME.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, HOW MANY 18 MAJORS.

AND IT WAS LIKE --BUT TO LEARN THAT AT A YOUNG AGE, TO FEEL THAT AND AT THE BACK OF MY MIND KNOW THAT YOU MAY NEVER SEE HER PARENTS AGAIN.

I MEAN, THAT'S LIKE --REALLY GUTSY MOVE.

>> HOW DID YOU TWO BECOME FRIENDS AND WASN'T NORMAL -- NOT NORMAL --THAT ALL PLAYERS HAVE FRIENDSHIPS ON THE ROAD?

>> YEAH.

THERE WERE NO TEAMS.

>> IT WAS BILLIE JEAN AND ROSIE AND MARTINA AND I AND OTHER PLAYERS, AND WE WERE LIKE THE TRAVELING BAND OR THE TRAVELING CIRCUS.

WE TRAVELED TOGETHER.

WE PRACTICED TOGETHER.

WE ATE DINNER TOGETHER.

WE DID PRESS CONFERENCES TOGETHER.

WE DID EVERYTHING TOGETHER.

THERE ARE NO COACHES.

THERE ARE NO TEAMS.

THERE IS NO MONEY TO PAY FOR A THERAPIST OR A PHYSIO OR A COACH.

WE DID EVERYTHING TOGETHER.

MARTINA AND I PRACTICED BEFORE THE FRENCH OPEN.

WE HAD A LUNCH.

I REMEMBER IT WAS CHICKEN AND MASHED POTATOES.

WE SAT TOGETHER AND HAD LUNCH.

>> AND WE PROBABLY WENT OUT TO DINNER, TOO.

>> WHICH I THE NEXT DAY TO LONDON.

THERE IS SO MUCH CAMARADERIE.

>> THERE IS SO MUCH CAMARADERIE IN THOSE DAYS, AND WE REALLY DID CARE ABOUT EACH OTHER.

>> BUT COME LOTTERY ONLY EXTENDED TO A CERTAIN POINT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IN THE DOC, ITCHES, YOU ARE FIND TO BE HER FRIEND AS LONG AS YOU WERE BEATING HER.

RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

>> EXPAND.

>> I WILL.

>> HOW DID IT AFFECT YOUR FRIENDSHIP WHEN SHE STARTED TO RISE AND CHALLENGE YOU?

>> WE WERE PLAYING DOUBLES TOGETHER.

WE WERE PLAYING DOUBLES TOGETHER.

WE WERE NOT REALLY PRACTICING TOGETHER.

WE WERE PLAYING DOUBLES TOGETHER.

AND THEN MARTINA STARTED BEATING ME.

THEN I WENT TO HURT --I DIDN'T SEND HER A TEXT OR A LETTER.

I WENT TO HER AND SAID, MARTINA, I DON'T THINK I CAN PLAY DOUBLES WITH YOU ANYMORE BECAUSE IN MY MIND, I FELT LIKE, WE WERE GETTING A LITTLE TOO CLOSE.

SHE WAS KNOWING MY GAME A LITTLE TOO MUCH FROM THE PRACTICING AND THE DOUBLES, AND I --MY NUMBER ONE GOAL WAS TO BE NUMBER ONE IN SINGLES SO I WASN'T WHEELING --THAT DIDN'T MEAN I WASN'T GOING TO BE HER FRIEND.

I JUST THOUGHT I SHOULD BREAK UP THE DOUBLES.

>> YOU THOUGHT SHE BROKE UP YOUR FRIENDSHIP.

>> NOT THE FRIENDSHIP.

>> NO, NO, NO, NO.

>> SOME PEOPLE CAN BE FRIENDS WITH OPPOSITION BUT SHE DUMPED ME FOR DOUBLES IN '76.

WE WON IT WIMBLEDON.

WE WON HERE IN '75, AND I THINK THE 70s THAT YEAR --BUT IT WAS CLOSE.

ON GRASS.

AND THEN WE WERE SUPPOSED TO PLAY DOUBLES TOGETHER.

THAT'S WHEN CHRIS SAID, I NEED TO CONCENTRATE.

>> YOU KNOW MY GAME TOO WELL AND I WAS GETTING TOO CLOSE WITH HER AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT MY PRIORITY WAS STILL TO HAVE MARTINA AS A FRIEND, BUT, YOU KNOW, TO STAND UP A LITTLE BIT.

IS THAT THAT BAD?

THAT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN SPORTS.

>> FINE, BUT THEN YOU ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP WHICH WASN'T PUBLIC WITH THE GREAT AMERICAN BASKETBALL PLAYER --.

>> THAT WAS LATER.

>> SO WHEN YOU STARTED TO RISE, APPARENTLY SHE ADVISED YOU, STOP BEING FRIENDS WITH CHRISSY.

YOU HAVE TO HATE CHRISSY ON THE COURT.

>> CHRIS --THAT'S WHO I WAS THINKING ABOUT.

I HAD EVERYBODY ELSE COVERED BUT I COULDN'T BEAT CHRIS CONSISTENTLY.

AND I COULDN'T GET TO NUMBER ONE IF I DON'T BEAT CHRIS.

>> WE WERE TALKING OFF-CAMERA ABOUT TRAINING.

IT SOUNDS BRUTAL.

GIVE US A LITTLE -- >> NANCY INDICTMENT IN APRIL.

I HAD LOST THE WEIGHT BUT I WASN'T IN GREAT SHAPE BUT I WAS THE SAME WEIGHT.

BUT I LOST TO CHRIS THE SAME DAY.

WENT TO THE FRENCH AND LOST HERE IN THE SEMIS I THINK.

ON GRASS, I LOST TWO ANDREA JAEGER.

I LOST IN '81, TO CHRIS, AND HOW MUCH LONGER ARE YOU GOING TO PLAY?

I WAS 26 OF THAT POINT.

>> YOU CAN PLAY SO MUCH BETTER.

RUNNING SUICIDE ROLES.

TRAINING.

THE BIGGEST KEY WAS THAT TO GET STARTED.

RIGHT WHEN SHE STARTED HELPING ME, COACHING AFTER THE U. S. OPEN IN '81.

>> GIVEN THE SENSITIVITIES AROUND EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW, RENEE RICHARDS WAS TRANSGENDER.

>> IS, SHE IS STILL ALIVE, SORRY.

IT WAS NOT A HUGE BIG DEAL BACK THEN.

>> IT WAS A BIG DEAL THAT SHE WAS ALLOWED TO PLAY, BUT SHE SUED FOR THE RIGHTS OF PLAY.

IT WAS A ONE OFF, AND RENEE WAS IN HER 40s.

IT'S THE ONLY REASON SHE DIDN'T BEAT THE PANTS OFF OF US.

I HAD A FEW MATCHES WITH HER.

I PLAY DOUBLES WITH HER.

SHE STARTED COACHING ME IN '81.

SHE IS A GREAT PERSON THAT I ONLY KNEW AS A WOMAN, AND THAT WAS ONLY ONE --BUT ANYONE CAN SAY I AM A WOMAN AND COMPETE.

>> YOU FEEL IT'S UNFAIR.

>> OF COURSE IT'S UNFAIR.

THEIR BODIES --LOOK.

I RAISED TWO GIRLS AND I'M RAISING TWO BOYS.

IT'S LIKE TWO DIFFERENT SPECIES.

THE ADVANTAGE THAT A MALE HAS EVERY FEMALE CAN NEVER GO AWAY.

>> RENEE RICHARDS CAME OUT WITH A QUOTE AND SAID SHE WAS GOING TO THE QUARTER FINALS AND SOME FINALS ON THE WTA, AND THAT WAS UNFORESEEN.

HE NEVER HEARD ABOUT THAT.

SHE CANNOT AND SAID, I WAS IN MY 40s.

AND I WAS PLAYING AND I WAS OUT OF SHAPE AND I WAS SLOW AND I WAS OLD AND IF I HAD BEEN IN MY 20s I WOULD'VE KILLED EVERYBODY.

AND SO IF YOU ASK HER, SHE'S -- SHE DOESN'T THINK --SHE SHOULD'VE BEEN ALLOWED TO PLAY.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS A FAIR OR RIGHT.

DO YOU HAVE A SOLUTION FOR THIS?

WHAT WOULD BE THE OPTIMAL SOLUTION FOR THE CURRENT -- >> HAVE THEIR OWN --HAVE THEIR OWN CATEGORY.

>> OWN CATEGORY OR YOU HAVE TO STAY IN THE MALE OR FEMALE SEX CATEGORY.

IT'S THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CATEGORIES AND IT'S THE ONLY FAIR WAY TO GO ABOUT IT.

YOU CAN HAVE A FEMALE CATEGORY AND AN OPEN CATEGORY.

IF YOU WANT TO COMPETE WITH THE GUYS YOU CAN, BUT YOU CANNOT AS A MAN CAN BE WITH THE WOMEN.

IT'S NOT FAIR.

IT CAN NEVER BE FAIR.

>> I WANT TO GET BACK TO HOW YOU ALL FELT ON THE COURSE.

THERE'S A PICTURE IN THE DOC.

IT BROKE MY HEART.

YOU ARE HUGGING A POLE AFTER WINNING A MATCH.

ONE THAT THEY COULD MATCHES YOU WIN.

>> IT WAS THE FIRST TO ADMIT I WON.

>> YOU ARE HUGGING THE POLE AND SAID, I DIDN'T HAVE MY FAMILY.

I DIDN'T HAVE ANYBODY.

>> I WAS ALONE AND I UNEXPECTEDLY WON THE TOURNAMENT AND WHEN I WENT TO, I WANTED TO HUG SOMEBODY BUT THERE WAS NOBODY I KNEW THERE.

I HOPE TO THE LIGHT POLE NEXT TO THE UMPIRE'S CHAIR.

>> IT IS A LONELY LIFE.

I REMEMBER WINNING WIMBLEDON AND ONE TIME MEETING EVONNE GOOLAGONG.

>> I REALLY DIDN'T HAVE MANY FRIENDS AT ALL.

THAT WAS LIKE --THAT WAS A MOMENT THAT OPENED MY EYES.

EBONY CHANGED AFTER THAT.

>> I WENT BACK AND WORKED ON FRIENDSHIPS.

WHEN YOU'RE A STAR, PEOPLE COME UP TO YOU ALL THE TIME AND THEY WANT SOMETHING OR THEY WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEND, AND YOU DON'T EVEN --YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIVE BACK BECAUSE YOU ARE SO BUSY PLAYING.

>> IT IS A SELF-CENTERED EXISTENCE.

>> SELF ABSORBED REALLY.

YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT YOURSELF.

>> AFTER THAT, I REALIZED I DON'T WANT TO LIVE LIKE THIS AT ALL.

AND I WENT HOME AND CALLED MY FRIENDS THAT I HAD AND I STARTED WORKING, GETTING AND SPENDING TIME AND PUTTING ENERGY INTO FRIENDSHIPS INSTEAD OF EVERYBODY COMING TO ME, I WOULD COME TO THEM AND IT WORKED OUT.

IT WAS A GOOD BALANCE.

>> I WANT TO GET TO THE OTHER MAJOR CONNECTION BETWEEN YOU TWO.

CANCER ALSO CROPPED UP AND ATTACK TO BOTH AND YOU BOTH TOGETHER.

YOU HAD THROAT AND BREAST CANCER.

YOU HAD OVARIAN CANCER.

FULL DISCLOSURE, I'VE BEEN IN THIS JOURNEY, AS WELL.

HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH IT WHEN IT HIT YOU?

>> WELL, THE FIRST THING I DID WAS I CALLED BILLIE JEAN KING AND SAID, CAN I HAVE CHRIS EVERT'S PHONE NUMBER?

YOU HAVE BEEN GREAT TO ME.

>> I SENT YOU A WHITE FLUFFY BLANKET.

WHICH SOMEONE GAVE TO ME AND IT'S IN THE FILM I THINK.

IT IS THE WHITE FLUFFY BLANKET.

>> IT'S SO NICE TO HAVE SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN THROUGH THERE, BUT MARTINA CALLED ME.

WE GOT EACH OTHER.

ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE HE CALLED WAS EACH OTHER.

AND IT JUST IS IRONIC THAT WE'VE HAD AT THIS JOURNEY IN TENNIS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, GET CANCER AT THE SAME TIME AND THEN TWICE, AND SHE WAS THERE FOR ME AND I WAS THERE FOR HER, AND AGAIN, IT REALLY HELPS TO HAVE SOMEBODY TO TALK TO ABOUT IT.

>> AND IN THE DOC, WE SEE QUITE INTENSE MEDICAL SCENES.

WE SEE THE INTRAVENOUS.

WE SEE YOU GUYS GO THROUGH THE MRI AND THE CT SCAN AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS.

WE SEE YOU FRANKLY AT YOUR MOST VULNERABLE.

MORE THAN YOU EVER --EVEN WHEN YOU LOST ON THE COURT.

I GUESS YOU ARE COMFORTABLE, OTHERWISE HE WOULDN'T HAVE LET IT --BUT WHY DID YOU WANT TO DEPICT ALL THAT, AS WELL?

>> I THINK CHRIS WAS MUCH MORE PUBLIC ABOUT IT.

I KIND OF WENT INTO A HOLE.

I EVEN SAID TO JULIA, MY WIFE, PLEASE TAKE CARE OF ME.

I'M SELF-SUFFICIENT BUT I WAS GETTING A LOT OF SUPPORT FROM EVERYBODY.

I GOT A TEXT FROM CHRIS.

I GOT BLANKETS FROM FRIENDS.

I MADE IT PUBLIC ONLY BECAUSE I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING SO IT WOULD'VE COME OUT AND AFTER, WE WERE ALL ABOUT RAISING THE AWARENESS FOR PEOPLE TO GET CHECKED --DON'T --ANY KIND OF SCIENCE.

IT SAVED BOTH OF US, BEING PROACTIVE, BEFORE -- >> I FEEL THAT WAY, TOO.

RAISE AWARENESS WHEREVER YOU CAN.

ACTUALLY, WOMEN'S CANCERS, WOMEN'S MEDICAL PROGRAMS GET SHORT SHRIFT COMPARED TO MEN WHEN THEY GO TO THE DOCTOR.

>> MY STORY WAS DIFFERENT BECAUSE I HAD MY SISTER JEANNIE.

MY SISTER DIED FROM OVARIAN CANCER IN TWO YEARS BEFORE I WAS DIAGNOSED WITH IT.

AND WE BOTH EVENTUALLY HAD THE BRCA GENE.

THEY SAID YOUR SISTER HAS A FRIEND THAT TURNED INTO CANCER AFTER SHE DIED, SO THAT VARIANT --SHE DIDN'T HAVE THE BRCA GENE BUT SHE HAD A SUSPECT VARIANT WHICH MEANS THAT IT'S NOT --THERE'S NOT ENOUGH CASE STUDIES TO CLASSIFY IT AS CANCER.

BUT AFTER SHE DIED, THEY HAD MORE RESEARCH AND IT WAS CLASSIFIED.

AND SO MY GYNECOLOGIST TOLD ME --WENT RIGHT IN.

LET'S GET THE TEST.

I HAD THE BRCA GENE JOINT.

THE NEXT DAY, I HAD A HYSTERECTOMY TO BE PROACTIVE, TO HAVE IT --NOT KNOWING I HAD CANCER.

I HAD CANCER IN MY OVARIES.

FOR ME, MY SISTER SAVED MY LIFE, FOR SURE.

I WASN'T FEELING ANY DIFFERENT.

SO I THOUGHT, PEOPLE HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT THIS BRCA GENE.

PEOPLE HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT GENETIC TESTING.

>> YOU USED TO GO TO THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE AND HAD TO FILL OUT --I THOUGHT IT WAS A PAIN IN THE NECK.

WHY DO THEY NEED TO KNOW THIS?

WHY DO THEY NEED TO KNOW THAT?

IT IS SO IMPORTANT WITH CANCERS.

>> AND HOW DID YOU COPE WHEN, YOU KNOW, YOU HAD SUCCESSFUL TREATMENT AND THEN YOU RELAPSED?

BOTH OF YOU DID.

HOW DID YOU COPE WITH THAT?

>> I HAD CANCER 15 YEARS AGO BUT MAYBE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DCIS, AND THEN THIS ONE, WHEN I GOT CHECKED TO SEE WHERE THE TUMOR WAS ON MY THROAT, I HAD A CT SCANNED AND MY RIGHT BREAST LET UP.

I HAD TWO UNRELATED CANCERS.

THAT'S WHEN I GOT CHECKED FOR THE GENETIC STUFF.

I HAD THREE UNRELATED CANCERS --EARLY ENOUGH SO I WAS LUCKY.

>> YEAH, I HAD, AFTER MY FIRST CANCER, I HAD SURGERY, CHEMO AND THEN TWO YEARS LATER, CAME BACK.

>> AND WERE YOU IN A STATE THAT IS GOOD RIGHT NOW?

>> I HAVE TO GET A CT EVERY THREE MONTHS.

BLOODWORK EVERY MONTH BECAUSE MY WHITE BLOOD CELLS ARE LOW.

BUT IN A WAY, THANK GOD BECAUSE HE WILL ALWAYS BE MONITORED AND THAT'S REALLY FORTUNATE.

IN THREE YEARS.

>> IN THE FILM, YOU REVEALED -- YOU ARE LOOKING IN THE MIRROR AND YOU TAKE OFF THE LEG.

>> MARTINA AND I DISCUSSED THIS.

IF WE ARE GOING TO DO A DOCUMENTARY, IT'S ONE TO BE FULL DISCLOSURE AND IT'S GOING TO BE AUTHENTIC.

WE HAVE TO GET INTO THE DIRT.

THIS IS THE REALITY.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS.

TAKE IT OFF.

MAYBE IT'S A SHOCK TO SOME PEOPLE BUT THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS AND I THINK WE BOTH HAVE A GREAT MESSAGE.

IF YOU FEEL ANYTHING WRONG WITH YOUR BODY, ANYTHING DIFFERENT, GO GET YOUR BLOODWORK.

>> IN THE OTHER GREAT MESSAGE IS, IN AN ERA WHERE IF YOU DO GET DIAGNOSED EARLY, YOU CAN MANAGE IT.

THAT'S WHAT MY ONCOLOGIST SAYS.

IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A DEATH SENTENCE.

IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

I WANT TO END BY A BRUTAL -- BEAUTIFUL SCENE WHERE YOU ARE BOTH SITTING WATCHING THE 1978 WIMBLEDON FINAL.

IT WAS REALLY REALLY COOL WATCHING ABOVE, AND HOW DID YOU FEEL KNOWING --DID YOU REMEMBER WHAT MADE TINA WHEN AND YOU LOSE THAT ONE?

>> YOU MEAN WHEN I HIT HER IN THE HEAD?

WHEN I HIT HER IN THE HEAD?

I DID NOT MEAN TO HIT HER IN THE HEAD.

YOU KNOW THAT, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, NO, OF COURSE.

>> I SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT.

IT WOKE HER UP.

YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK THINGS HAPPEN FOR A REASON AND IT WAS INEVITABLE.

SHE WAS A BETTER GRASS COURT PLAYER THAN I WAS.

I ALSO WAS FALLING IN LOVE WITH JOHN LLOYD AT THAT TIME.

I JUST DIDN'T HAVE THAT FIERY INTENSITY THAT I NORMALLY HAVE.

I WAS PRETTY RELAXED.

NOT MAKING THAT AS AN EXCUSE BUT YOU KNOW HOW PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS CAN AFFECT MATCHES A LITTLE BIT, BUT I WAS GENUINELY HAPPY FOR HER.

I REALLY WAS.

>> SHE WAS.

>> I MEAN, THIS WAS HER DREAM.

THIS IS WHY SHE DEFECTED.

SHE HADN'T SEEN HER FAMILY.

AND SHE WAS THE BEST GRASS COURT PLAYER THEN SO I THINK THAT SUMS UP OUR FRIENDSHIP AND WHAT I'VE LEARNED FROM MARTIN OVER THE LAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS ESPECIALLY SINCE WE'VE RETIRED IS AN ENORMOUS COMPASSION THAT SHE HAS FOR EVERYTHING IN LIFE, YOU KNOW.

JUST NOT ONLY FOR ME, BUT FOR EVERYBODY AROUND HER, FOR THE WORLD IN GENERAL.

SHE'S A GOOD PERSON.

>> IT DID BRING US TOGETHER, BUT WHAT AWAITED DO IT.

I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND IT TO ANYBODY BUT WE MADE THE MOST OUT OF WHAT WE HAD.

>> AND YOU IN 1978, HOW DID YOU FEEL?

>> WELL, IT WAS BITTERSWEET.

IT WAS A DREAM OF MINE AND MY FAMILY.

MY DAD SPENT THOUSANDS OF HOURS WITH ME ON THE COURT AND HE COULDN'T COME.

I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THEY SAW IT, AND IT WAS A BACK-AND-FORTH MATCH, AS WELL, SO I WAS THRILLED BUT THEN I WAS SAD BUT THEN MY DAD CALLED ME AND THEY HAD WATCHED IT ON TV.

AND THEN THE NEXT YEAR -- >> THEY WENT TO GERMANY TO WATCH IT.

>> THE CZECH NEWS DID NOT EXIST.

NOT IN PERSON.

>> ACTUALLY, LET'S AND ON THAT BEAUTIFUL SCENE WHERE YOU GO BACK FOR THE FED CUP, RIGHT, AND YOU GO BACK TOGETHER, AND YOU ARE A HERO.

A NATIONAL HERO.

THAT MUST HAVE BEEN FANTASTIC.

IN --MY GRANDMOTHER WAS DYING.

>> IT WAS SO MUCH EMOTION IN EVERY WAY.

I LEFT WHEN THE PLANE WAS TAKING OFF.

I COULD LEAVE BUT 15 MILLION PEOPLE COULDN'T.

>> THAT'S WHY THE WOMEN WERE CRYING, TOO.

SUCH A POLITICAL UP YOURS -- EXCUSE ME --TO THE COMMUNISTS.

>> THEY DIDN'T PRINT HER NAME IN THE NEWS -- NEWSPAPER.

>> CHRIS EVERETT IN THE PLAYER FROM AMERICA.

>> FOR HER TO BE ABLE TO PLAY AND THE U. S. BEAT CZECHOSLOVAKIA IN THE FINAL -- WASN'T THAT IRONIC.

THEY WERE CRYING BECAUSE --THE WOMEN WERE CRYING BECAUSE THEY LOVE MARTINA AND I LOVE TO SEE HER BUT ALSO BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN LIVES.

THEY WISH THEY COULD HAVE MADE THEIR STEP AS WELL.

DESPITE THAT IS A GOOD WAY TO CLOSE THE CONVERSATION.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

CHRIS EVERT, MARTINA NAVRATILOVA.

>> WHAT AMAZING EXPERIENCES.

AND THE FINAL SET WILL BE AVAILABLE TO STREAM ON NETFLIX NEXT WEEK, JUNE 26th.

NOW, 628,000.

THAT IS THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO TUNED INTO CPS LATE-NIGHT SPOT THE FIRST MONDAY AFTER STEPHEN COLBERT'S SHOW WAS REPLACED.

WHILE THAT NUMBER MIGHT SOUND BIG, THAT IS ACTUALLY A 65% DROP FROM COLBERT'S AVERAGE.

STILL, COMIC DECK FIRST COMPANY IS SHOWING AT 4 MILLION.

TO NAP AT THAT SPOT.

HE'S TALKING TO WALTER ISAACSON ABOUT WHY HE IS BETTING BIG ON THE FUTURE OF MEDIA AND LATE- NIGHT.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

CONGRATULATIONS.

IT TOOK OVER THE SLOT THAT WAS LONG HELD BY STEPHEN COLBERT.

HOW LONG HAVE YOU WANTED TO DO THAT?

>> I'VE BEEN CHASING THAT FOR OVER 51 YEARS.

SINCE I WAS 14 YEARS OLD AND I MET JOHNNY CARSON AT THE NBC STUDIOS IN BURBANK.

SO I TELL EVERYBODY, WALTER, I MADE 65-YEAR-OLD OVERNIGHT SENSATION.

>> AND TELL ME ABOUT THOSE EARLY YEARS IN COMEDY.

>> MY MOM WHO IS NOT ONLY BEAUTIFUL --SHE'S BRILLIANT.

SHE GOT PREGNANT WITH ME WHEN SHE WAS 16 AND HAD ME 17 DAYS AFTER HER 17th BIRTHDAY AND I TELL EVERYBODY I HAVE TWO HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS SO, YOU KNOW, I WAS BORN IN DETROIT, MICHIGAN IN APRIL OF '61, AND MARTIN LUTHER KING WAS ASSASSINATED IN APRIL OF '68, AND THE RIOTS BROKE OUT, AND DETROIT GOT LIT UP LIKE A CHRISTMAS TREE, AND MY MOM AND I DECIDED TO COME OUT TO L. A. AND VISIT FRIENDS AND FAMILY FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS IN THE SUMMER OF 68.

AND WE ENDED UP STAYING, AND IT WAS SLIM PICKINGS WHEN WE GOT HERE, SLEEPING ON A LOT OF FLOORS AND A LOT OF SOFAS AND SPARE ROOMS WHERE WE COULD FIND IT, AND MY MOM ENDED UP GETTING INTO UCLA AND GETTING HER MASTERS DEGREE IN CINEMA TV PRODUCTION AND BECAUSE SHE GOT HER MASTERS DEGREE IN CINEMA TV PRODUCTION FROM UCLA, SHE WAS ABLE TO GO ALL OVER TOWN AND ASK FOR JOBS AND KNOCKED ON A LOT OF DOORS.

GOT A LOT OF NO'S AND SHE FINALLY WENT TO NBC AND SAID, HEY, DO YOU HAVE A LOT OF JOBS AND THEY SAID NO, AND ASKED, DO YOU HAVE AN INTERN PROGRAM WHERE I CAN WORK HERE FOR FREE, AND THEY SAID, NO.

AND THEN SHE ASKED A QUESTION THAT CHANGED OUR LIVES FOREVER.

SHE SAID, WILL YOU PLEASE START ONE WITH ME, AND THEY SAID YES.

AND BECAUSE SHE COULD NOT AFFORD CHILDCARE, SHE TOOK ME TO WORK QUITE OFTEN, AND AFTER SCHOOL AND DURING THE SUMMER, I WOULD GO FROM STUDIO TO STUDIO TO STUDIO WAITING FOR MY MOM TO GET OFF WORK, AND I'M STANDING THERE AND I SEE JOHNNY CARSON DO THE TONIGHT SHOW AND I WOULD GO ACROSS THE HALL AND I WOULD WATCH RED FOX TAPE HIS SHOW, SANFORD AND SON.

AND FLIP WILSON TAPE HIS SHOW AND BOB HOPE TO'S SPECIALS.

I THOUGHT, WHAT A WONDERFUL WAY TO GO THROUGH LIFE, MAKING TELEVISION AND MAKING PEOPLE LAUGH.

I STARTED DOING STANDUP COMEDY WHEN I WAS 14.

>> AND YOU STARTED GETTING PAID PER JOKE.

IS THAT RIGHT?

>> I WAS PERFORMING AT THE COMEDY STORE.

MY FIRST TIME AT THE COMEDY STORE, I WAS 14 YEARS OLD.

IT WAS MONDAY NIGHT TRYOUT NIGHT AND THEY SAID, GET THERE EARLY AND THEY SAID THE DOORS OPEN AT 7:00.

PEOPLE LINE UP TO TRY OUT.

SO I TOOK THE BUS.

I WAS 14.

I TOOK THE BUS AND GOT THERE AT NINE IN THE MORNING AND I SAT THERE ON THE CURB AND I WROTE JOKES AND WAITED FOR THEM TO OPEN THE DOOR AND I WENT ON STAGE, AND THIS GUY --IT WAS BASICALLY FOUR PEOPLE IN 200 CHAIRS SO I HAD TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE 200 CHAIRS LAUGH AND I WENT ON STAGE AND PERFORMED AND THIS GUY SAID, HEY, YOU WROTE THOSE JOKES?

CAME RIGHT UP TO ME AND I SAID I WROTE THEM.

HE SAID, THOSE ARE FUNNY.

HE SAID, I MAY KNOW SOMEBODY THAT MAY WANT TO WORK WITH YOU.

A WEEK OR TWO LATER, I GOT A CALL AND THIS GUY SAYS TO ME, CAN I SPEAK TO BYRON?

I SAID, THIS IS BYRON.

HE SAID, THIS IS JIMMY, JJ WALKER.

KID DYNAMITE, AND JIMMY WALKER WAS THE HOTTEST COMMITTEE AND BY FAR ON THE PLANET.

YOU KNOW, HE WAS THE START OF GOOD TIMES ON CBS, AND HE SAID MY MAN WAYNE CLIENT SAYS YOU'RE FUNNY.

AND IF MY MAN WAYNE CLIENT SAYS YOU'RE FUNNY, YOU MUST BE FUNNY.

>> TOLL LANE, THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

>> HE SAID, I'M SITTING IN A WRITERS EATING.

DO YOU WANT TO COME IN RIGHT JOKES WITH ME AND MY BOYS?

I SAID, LET ME ASK MY MOM.

MY MOM SAYS YES.

SHE DROPS ME OFF AT JIMMY'S APARTMENT.

I WALK IN AND SITTING THERE IS JIMMY WALKER, THE BIGGEST TELEVISION STAR IN AMERICA AT THAT TIME, JAY LENO, WHO IS SLEEPING IN HIS CAR, AND DAVE WAS DAVID LETTERMAN WHO DROVE OUT FROM INDIANAPOLIS IN A RED PICKUP TRUCK.

>> TO BE JOKE WRITERS FOR HIM.

>> HOW DID YOU CREATE JOKES AT 14?

WHAT WAS THE METHOD?

>> YOU KNOW, OBSERVATIONAL COMEDY FOR ME.

I WAS TALKING ABOUT MY LIFE.

I WAS REALLY JUST STUDYING WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE WORLD.

YOU KNOW.

IT JUST REALLY APPRECIATED A LOT OF THE COMEDIANS.

VERY CLEAN, FAMILY ORIENTED BACK THEN --THIS IS THE MID- 70s.

THIS IS 1975.

SUMMER OF '75.

I WAS REALLY JUST SHARING MY EXPERIENCE.

MY EXPERIENCE DEALING WITH MY MOTHER, MY FATHER, MY FRIENDS.

>> SO THEY CAN FEEL WELCOME, WILL YOU.

BYRON ALLEN.

>> IT WAS A POLITICAL PERIOD AND YOU TENDED TO STEER CLEAR OF POLITICAL JOKES, EVEN TO THE STATE.

WHY?

>> YOU KNOW, I'VE NEVER DONE POLITICAL HUMOR.

IT JUST WASN'T MY THING.

THERE'S A GREAT PLACE FOR POLITICAL HUMOR.

THERE ARE FOLKS WHO LOVE IT WHO APPRECIATE IT.

MY ENTIRE CAREER HAS BEEN ABOUT EVERGREEN COMEDY.

COMEDY YOU CAN US INTO TODAY, 40 YEARS FROM NOW, 50 YEARS FROM NOW, 60 YEARS FROM NOW.

WHEN I STARTED DOING COMICS UNLEASHED WITH BYRON ALLEN, I SAID, LISTEN, WE ARE DOING I LOVE LUCY.

IT'S EVERGREEN.

I DON'T WANT YOU TO DO ANYTHING THAT IS POLITICAL.

I DON'T WANT YOU TO DO ANYTHING THAT'S RACIST OR SEXIST OR ANTI- SOMATIC OR HOMOPHOBIC.

JUST TALK ABOUT YOUR LIVES.

INCLUDE EVERYBODY.

MAKE EVERYBODY FEEL GOOD.

WE ARE HERE TO HELP PEOPLE LEFT.

>> THAT IS REALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE LATE LATE NIGHT COMEDY HAS BEEN RECENTLY AND ESPECIALLY OF COURSE WITH COLBERT.

THERE WERE CONTROVERSIES ABOUT HIM BEING POLITICAL AND CONTROVERSIES OVER WHETHER CBS PUSHED HIM OUT BECAUSE HE WAS TOO POLITICAL.

YOU THINK THAT THERE'S A POLITICAL PLACE NOW TO GET RID OF POLITICS OR IS THAT AVOIDING THE ISSUES?

>> NO.

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PLENTY OF POLITICAL HUMOR.

THAT'S NOT GOING TO GO AWAY.

YOU KNOW.

YOU KNOW.

THERE ARE EASILY SEVEN COMEDIANS DOING POLITICAL HUMOR.

YOU HAVE JIMMY FALLON, SETH MEYERS, JIMMY KIMMEL, BILL MARR, JOHN OLIVER, JON STEWART.

GREG GUTFELD.

THAT'S JUST TO NAME A FEW.

>> DO YOU BELIEVE CBS FELT MORE COMFORTABLE WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU AREN'T POLITICAL GIVEN ALL THAT YOU HAVE BEEN THROUGH?

>> NO.

I THINK IS PURELY AN ECONOMIC DECISION.

YOU KNOW, THE RATINGS ARE SLIPPING ACROSS LINEAR TELEVISION, AND WHEN THE RATINGS SLIPPED, THE END DOLLARS MS.

ADVERTISERS DON'T PRINT MONEY.

THEY SHIP MONEY.

YOU CAN'T IGNORE THE FACT THAT APPROXIMATELY 50% OF ALL VIEWERSHIP IS NOW SITTING WITH STREAMING.

SO, LEST PEOPLE FORGET THAT JAY LENO TOOK A 50% PAY CUT.

PEOPLE FORGET THAT SETH MEYERS --THEY CUT HIS BAND.

THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS WHERE THEY SAID TO THE LATE NIGHT COMEDIANS, HEY, THE RATINGS AREN'T WHAT THEY USED TO BE.

WE NOW NEED TO ADJUST THIS FINANCIALLY.

PEOPLE SHOULD REMEMBER THAT IT'S NOT SHOW BUSINESS.

IT IS BUSINESS SHOW.

NOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RATINGS AND YOU APPROACH IT AS BUSINESS SHOW, WHAT YOU'LL NOTICE IS THAT COLBERT'S RATINGS AND NOT JUST COLBERT.

ANYBODY DOING POLITICAL HUMOR --BUT IN THE CASE OF COLBERT, HIS REPEATS WERE NEGATIVE 52% BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE DOING POLITICAL HUMOR, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE NEWS FROM EIGHT WEEKS AGO.

12 WEEKS AGO.

WHEN YOU REPEAT THE SHOW.

BECAUSE WE DIDN'T DO POLITICAL OR TOPICAL HUMOR, OUR REPEATS WERE ONLY NEGATIVE 14%.

>> SO ARE YOU --YOU ARE USING A LOT OF REPEATS THEN AND THIS HELPS THE BUSINESS MODEL IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

>> I'M NOT USING A LOT OF REPEATS.

I'M JUST SAYING THAT WHEN YOU DO POLITICAL HUMOR, IT DOESN'T REPEAT AS WELL VERSUS NOT DOING IT BECAUSE WHEN YOU DO POLITICAL HUMOR, IT IS VERY TOPICAL.

WE WANTED TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT WAS MORE SUSTAINABLE, THAT YOU COULD PLAY IT, YOU KNOW, A YEAR FROM NOW, 10 YEARS FROM NOW.

>> TELL US ABOUT YOUR NEW SHOW AND WHAT CAN VIEWERS EXPECT DURING THIS ROLLOUT?

>> YOU KNOW, OUR SHOW IS SPECIAL --SIMPLE.

WE ARE HERE TO MAKE YOU LAUGH.

THAT'S ALL HE WANT TO DO.

MAKE YOU LEFT.

I'M SITTING THERE WITH FOUR OTHER COMEDIANS, TWO TO MY RIGHT, TWO TO MY LEFT.

AND I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU, IN MY YEARS DOING THIS SHOW, I'M SO IMPRESSED WITH THE COMEDIANS I'M SEEING TODAY BECAUSE THEY GREW UP HAVING ACCESS TO EVERY COMEDIAN.

WHEN I STARTED STAND UP IN '75, I SAW THE COMEDIANS AT THE COMPANY STORE THAT SHOWED UP.

THAT'S IT.

AND NOW, THEY ARE ON THE INTERNET AND THEY SEE EVERY COMEDIAN THAT HAS EVER ENGAGED IN THE ART OF COMEDY.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT IT BEING SHOW BUSINESS.

YOU TALK ABOUT IT BEING BUSINESS SHOW.

>> BUSINESS SHOW.

BUSINESS SHOW, NOT SHOW BUSINESS.

>> AND YOU'VE CREATED A REALLY BIG BUSINESS EMPIRE.

I THINK PEOPLE PROBABLY DON'T QUITE REALIZE THAT YOU COME AT THIS AS AN ENTREPRENEUR AND AS A BUILDER OF A BIG BUSINESS.

TELL ME HOW YOU DECIDED TO BECOME A MEDIA BARON IN THAT WAY.

>> FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR ASKING.

HERE'S WHAT I WOULD SAY, WALTER.

YOU KNOW, I LEARNED EARLY ON, YOU KNOW, IDEAS ARE A DIME A DOZEN.

THE KEYWORDS ARE EXECUTION AND DISTRIBUTION OF THOSE IDEAS.

I INVESTED A LITTLE BIT OVER $1 BILLION, ABC, NBC, AND FOX AFFILIATES, AND I SAT ON THE CBS AFFILIATES BOARD.

I SIT ON THE BOARD IN THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BROADCASTERS BUT WHEN I SAT ON THE CBS AFFILIATES BOARD, AT ALL OF THESE OTHER STATIONS THAT I --WE OWN AND CONTROL, I SAID, LOOK, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE ARE SPENDING SO MUCH MONEY TO WIN LATE NIGHT BECAUSE EVEN IF YOU WIN, ALL YOU ARE DOING IS HANDING ME AN AUDIENCE AT 1:30 IN THE MORNING THAT I'M GOING TO USE TO GO RIGHT INTO 81 800 SPRING ON HAIR.

ONE 800 ABS IN 24 HOURS.

I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD INVEST A GREAT DEAL OF CAPITAL TO WIN IN THE MORNING, 7:00 TO 9:00.

IN THE AFTERNOON WITH YOUR GAME SHOWS AND SOAP OPERAS, AND EVENING WITH EVENING NEWS AND PRIME TIME, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO DEPLOY RESOURCES TO WIN LATE NIGHT TICKET INTO 1 800 SPRAY ON HAIR INFOMERCIALS.

THEY WERE LOSING OVER 40 MILLION A YEAR ON COLBERT.

THE SHOW WAS CUSSING 110, 120 MILLION ACCORDING TO CBS, I SAID, OKAY.

YOU'VE DECIDED NOT TO GO FORWARD WITH COLBERT.

I CAN SAVE YOU THAT 40 MILLION, PLUS PAY YOU 15 MILLION FOR THAT HOUR.

SO THAT IS A $55 MILLION POSITIVE SWING IN YOUR DIRECTION.

AND I WILL PUT A SHOW IN THEIR WHERE THE RATINGS WILL BE COMPARABLE AND THE RATINGS ARE COMPARABLE WHEN YOU COMPARE OUR MAY 22nd TO MAY OF '25 FOR COLBERT, OUR RATINGS WERE 5% LESS THAN HIS.

AND THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE CORD CUTTING.

THE COURT CUTTING IN THE LAST YEAR OF 5 TO 10% OF THE AUDIENCE GOING AWAY.

THEY HAVE RECEIVED A $55 MILLION POSITIVE SWING.

THEY'RE NOT SPENDING 110 TO 120 MILLION, PLUS THEY'RE GETTING 15 MILLION FROM US.

SO IT'S A BIG WIN IN IT'S GOING TO BE A MODEL THAT'S GOING TO REVOLUTIONIZE NETWORK TV FOREVER BECAUSE THE NETWORKS ARE SPENDING AN ENORMOUS SUM ON LIFE SPORTS, AND ONCE AGAIN, YOU DON'T PRINT MONEY.

YOU'VE SHIFTED AND THEY ALL HAVE TO GET THEIR LIFE SPORTS TO BE COMPETITIVE.

THEY HAVE LESS FOR ENTERTAINMENT CONTENT AND AS AN OWNER OF ABC, NBC, CBS, AND FOX AFFILIATES, I HAD A FRONT ROW SEAT TO THAT AND I SAID, IF THIS MATH DOESN'T WORK AND THE WAY I CAN BE HELPFUL IS TO START PROVIDING CONTENT THAT IS COMPETITIVE AND AT THE SAME TIME CAN SAVE YOU AN ENORMOUS SUM OF CAPITAL.

>> SO YOU'VE EXPLAINED THAT YOU'RE PAYING $15 MILLION, RIGHT, FOR LEASING, LET'S SAY, THAT HOUR OF CBS.

THAT HELPS THEM ECONOMICALLY.

>> AND THEY SAFE.

AND THEY DON'T LOSE 40 MILLION BECAUSE THEY WERE LOSING 40 MILLION.

>> EXPLAIN HOW THAT WORKS.

YOU JUST GO TO THEM AND SAY, I'LL PAY YOU FOR THIS ARE IN YOU COLLECT THE REVENUE FROM ADVERTISING.

ANYTHING THAT CAN BE A TEMPLATE GOING FORWARD.

>> YEAH.

I BOUGHT THE ENTIRE TWO HOURS.

I BOUGHT THE OUR BEHIND THE 11: 30 HOUR.

I BOUGHT THE 11: 35 HOUR.

AND THAT IS COMIC --WITH BYRON ALLEN.

RIGHT AFTER THAT I HAVE TWO HOURS BACK TO BACK OF FUNNY YOU SHOULD ASK.

OUR COMEDY GAME SHOW.

I BOUGHT A TWO HOUR COMEDY BLOCK.

WE HAVE TWO HOURS PER NIGHT.

10 HOURS PER WEEK.

520 HOURS PER YEAR ON CBS MAKING US THE LARGEST PROVIDER OF NETWORK CONTENT TO THE NUMBER ONE NETWORK IN AMERICA PROVIDING MORE HOURS THAN ALL OF THE STUDIOS COMBINED.

NOW, WITH THAT, WALTER, WE HAVE 14,000 --A LITTLE OVER 14,000 30 SECOND SPOTS THAT WE HAVE TO GO SELL TO ADVERTISERS AND THOSE ADVERTISERS BY OUR SPOTS.

THAT'S HOW WE FUND THE PRODUCTION OF THE SHOW AND WE FUND THE ACQUISITION OF THE 520 HOURS OVER THAT ONE YEAR PERIOD.

THAT IS A REVOLUTIONARY BUSINESS MODEL THAT I CREATED, AND I'VE CREATED THIS NEW PLATFORM AND I KNEW THAT THE NETWORK AND ALL THE NETWORKS QUITE FRANKLY, THEY NEED IT BECAUSE THEY ARE SPENDING BILLIONS ON TOP OF BILLIONS TO ACQUIRE THE RIGHTS TO LIFE SPORTS.

>> NOW, COULD THIS MODEL SPREAD EITHER BY YOU DOING MORE AND WOULD IT HAVE TO BE WITH CBS?

ARE YOU EXCLUSIVE TO THEM?

>> NO.

I'M NONEXCLUSIVE AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT PRETTY MUCH ALL THE NETWORKS HAVE COME TO ME AND HAS SAID, WHAT CAN YOU DO FOR US?

SO ALL THE NETWORKS ARE DEFINITELY SAYING, HOW CAN WE WORK TOGETHER?

NOW KEEP IN MIND, I HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

YOU KNOW, I OWN THE WEATHER CHANNEL.

I OWN 11 OTHER CABLE NETWORKS AND DIGITAL PLATFORMS, YOU KNOW, BUSBY.

HUFF POST.

I HAVE 74 SHOWS IN TELEVISION.

I A PROVIDER FOR FIRST RUN TELEVISION SHOWS, PROVIDING MORE FIRST RUN SHOWS THAN ALL THE OTHER STUDIOS COMBINED.

I'M CLOSE TO 2000 EMPLOYEES.

I STARTED THE COMPANY FROM MY DINING ROOM TABLE JUST ME AND MY MOM AND A TALENT BUCKER, AND WE BUILT IT UP TO NOW WHAT IS APPROXIMATELY 1000 EMPLOYEES AND HUNDREDS OF THEM -- HUNDREDS OF THEM SELL ADVERTISING, SO THIS IS WHAT WE DO EVERY DAY.

I AM IN BUSINESS WITH HUNDREDS OF ADVERTISERS DIRECTLY.

SO MY INFRASTRUCTURE PUTS ME IN THIS POSITION TO PRODUCE THE CONTENT AT A VERY EFFICIENT PRICE AND I HAVE THE ABILITY TO BUY THAT TIME.

AND SELL THE ADVERTISING BECAUSE I ALREADY HAVE, YOU KNOW, A PLATFORM THAT EMPLOYS 2000 PEOPLE --APPROXIMATELY 2000 PEOPLE AND THIS IS WHAT THEY DO EACH AND EVERY DAY.

>> ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE FADING OF LINEAR TV, EVEN TO THIS IS THIS MODEL THAT YOU'VE DONE AND HOW HAVE YOU HEDGED AGAINST THAT IN YOUR BUSINESS?

>> GREAT QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT IT.

NOTHING EVER REALLY GOES AWAY.

YOU KNOW, THE MOVIE INDUSTRY CAME OVER 100 YEARS AGO, EVERYBODY IS LIKE, OKAY, THIS IS THE MOVIE INDUSTRY.

YOU CAN NOW SAY -- THEN RADIO CAME ALONG AND EVERYONE SAID, THAT'S A WRAP.

THE MOVIE INDUSTRY IS GOING TO SUFFER, AND THEN TV CAME ALONG AND THEY SAID GOODBYE MOVIES AND GOODBYE RADIO.

AND THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

HERE COMES APRIL.

HERE COMES DVD AND VHS AND DVD'S AND EVERYTHING BECAME ADDITIVE ALONG THE WAY.

NOTHING REPLACED IT.

IT ENHANCED EVERYTHING.

IT MADE IT BETTER.

TELEVISION MADE THE MOVIES BETTER.

IT WAS ANOTHER PLACE TO GO AND MONETIZE THE MOVIE.

DVDs MADE MOVIES BETTER.

EVERYTHING MADE IT ALL BETTER, BUT THE LANDSCAPE BECOMES SMART TEXTURED.

NOTHING'S GOING TO GO AWAY.

LINEAR TV WILL ALWAYS BE HERE.

>> BYRON ALLEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, WALTER.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.

ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM PARIS.