Amanpour and Company

>>> DARK SIDE OF FAME AND CELEBRITY IS A SUBJECT OUR NEXT GUEST KNOWS WELL. A CHILD ACTOR IN NICKELODEON SHOWS ALONGSIDE ARIANA GRANDE, BUT OPENS UP ABOUT THE DIFFICULTY SHE FACED WITH EATING DISORDERS, ADDICTION AND TROUBLING RELATIONSHIP WITH HER MOTHER. TITLE IS "I'M GLAD MY MOM DIED". >> THANKS SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. EXCITED TO BE HER. >> TITLE OF ONE WOMAN SHOW AND NOW BOOK IS "I'M GLAD MY MOM DIED," UM WOW. SO HOW DO YOU REALLY FEEL? >> YOU KNOW, I GET IT'S ATTENTION GRABBING TITLE AND WANTED IT TO BE. AND IT'S SOMETHING I MEAN SINCERELY. NOT MEANING TO BE FLIPPANT IN ANY WAY. IT'S POINT OF VIEW THAT WAS HARD FOR ME TO COME BY, AND I FEEL IT'S POINT OF VIEW I EARNED BECAUSE OF THE LIFE I LIVED AND WRITING OF THE BOOK. ALSO I THINK IT'S A TITLE ANYONE WHO HAS EXPERIENCED PARENTAL ABUSE UNDERSTANDS. EVEN IF THEY HAVEN'T, IT'S TITLE ANYBODY WITH SENSE OF HUMOR UNDERSTANDS. >> ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT THE BOOK THAT'S REMARKABLE, MANAGES TO BE HILARIOUS AND DEEPLY SAD AT THE SAME TIME. HARD TRICK TO PULL OFF. >> I THINK THAT'S THE HIGHEST COMPLIMENT. THANK YOU. I THINK THAT'S HOW LIFE IS. FOR ME IT'S BEEN THAT WAY. SOMETIMES SOUL CRUSHINGLY SAD, AND OUTSTANDINGLY HILARIOUS AT THE SAME TIME, SOMETIMES IN THE SAME ROOM. IT'S WHERE MY POINT OF VIEW IS. AND TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT WAY FEELS EXACTLY LIKE WHAT I WAS GOING FOR. THANK YOU. >> START WITH YOUR MOM. SHE IS AT CENTER OF THIS WHOLE THING. SHE WAS A PIECE OF WORK TO PUT IT MILDLY. AND IT'S HARD, GOT TO BE HONEST, HARD TO EVEN SAY SOME OF THE THINGS, LET ALONE REALIZE THAT YOU'VE LIVED THESE THINGS. BUT I MEAN, YOU TALK ABOUT HOW SHE SHOWERED UNTIL YOU WERE 17 YEARS OLD, EXAMINED YOUR BODY INAPPROPRIATELY, PUSHED YOU AND ENCOURAGED YOU INTO VERY SERIOUS EATING DISORDER THAT COULD HAVE KILLED YOU. YOU'RE ABLE TO NAME THIS NOW, EMOTIONALLY AND AT TIMES PHYSICALLY ABUSED AND MANIPULATED YOU. HOW DID IT ALL START, DO YOU KNOW? >> I MEAN I THINK IT'S GENERATIONAL. I KNOW SHE HAD A LOT OF STRUGGLES WHEN SHE WAS YOUNG. ALSO KNOW SHE HAD AN ARRAY OF MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES THAT WENT REALLY JUST UNDIAGNOSED BECAUSE SHE REFUSED TO GET HEM FOR ANY OF HER MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. IT WAS JUST BLATANTLY CLEAR WITH HER BEHAVIOR THERE WAS A LOT OF STUFF GOING ON, BUT SHE -- I THINK THAT'S TROUBLING THING. LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE MENTAL HEALTH STRUGGLES, BUT SO MANY PEOPLE WORK ON THOSE STRUGGLES, AND WORK TO OVERCOME THEM, WORK TO MANAGE THEM AND SHE DIDN'T. AND THAT'S -- THAT WAS A REALLY DIFFICULT THING FOR ME TO COME TO TERMS WITH. NOT THE ISSUES SHE HAD, BUT FACT SHE CHOSE NOT TO WORK ON THOSE ISSUES. >> SHE PUSHED YOU INTO ACTING, YOU ARE CLEAR ON THAT, THAT WAS HER DREAM, OBSESSION. THREE OLDER BROTHERS, YOU'RE THE YOUNGEST. WHY WERE YOU THE TARGET? BECAUSE THE ONLY GIRL? >> I THINK BECAUSE I WAS ONLY GIRL AND ALSO I THINK MY MOM PROBABLY SENSED THE DESPERATION I HAD TO PLEASE HER. MY BROTHERS WERE ALL -- YOU KNOW, INCREDIBLY LOVELY, ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, BUT JUST A DIFFERENT NEED TO PLEASE HER THAT I WAS BORN WITH MAYBE OR CONSIDERED THAT MIGHT HAVE STARTED FOR ME WHEN MOM FIRST GOT SICK. I WAS 2 YEARS OLD. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND AFTER GOING THROUGH THERAPY ABOUT THIS, THAT MATERNAL CONNECTION IS REALLY IMPORTANT. ALWAYS BUT AT EARLY AGE, IF YOU DON'T HAVE PHYSICAL PRESENCE OF YOUR MOM CAN LEAD TO ATTACHMENT DR TRAUMA AND WOUNDS AND I'M ASSUMING NEED TO PLEASE HER STEMS FROM THAT TRAUMA. >> HAD SERIOUS CANCER WHEN YOU WERE A YOUNG CHILD. SHE RECOVERED AT LEAST FOR A TIME. IT WAS REALLY BIG PART OF HER STORY. THAT WAS THE PLAY SHE WAS IN. AND SHE WAS PLAYING IT EVERY DAY. KIND OF. >> OH, MY GOD, THAT'S SO WELL ARTICULATED, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT FELT LIKE. I DIDN'T KNOW IT AT THE TIME. I WAS ON BOARD WITH ALL OF MY MOM'S NOWARRATIVES, I WAS COMPLETELY SUPPORTIVE, HER ROBOT SOLDIER. BUT NOW I SEE IT AS HER BEING REALLY, YOU KNOW, VERY INTO MARTYRDOM, BEING A MASTER AT THAT. OF COURSE I SYMPATHIZE WITH ANYBODY WHO EXPERIENCES CANCER, THAT'S AN INCREDIBLE STRUGGLE. BUT THE WAY SHE MANIPULATED HER CANCER WAS VERY OBSCURE AND DID TO YOUR POINT FEEL LIKE WHOLE THING WAS A PERFORMANCE OF I'M THIS CANCER SURVIVOR, TELLING EVERYBODY SHE CAME ACROSS HER STORY. FROM EARLY AGE I LEARNED THIS IS IMPORTANT TO MOM, SHE'S A CANCER SURVIVOR. THAT'S WHO SHE IS. >> YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT IN THE BOOK, HOW SHE WAS TRYING TO BROW BEAT, WAS IT AN AGENT OR PRODUCER, INTO GIVING YOU A ROLE. SAID OKAY, NOW IF YOU NEED ME TO PULL OUT THE CANCER, I'LL -- I WAS LIKE OH, MY GOD. THE BOOK IS SO FUNNY AND TERRIBLE AT THE SAME TIME. THIS WAS ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES. >> I LOVE HUMOR THAT COMES FROM CHARACTER FLAWS, AND MY MOM HAD A LOT OF CHARACTER FLAWS, SO I THINK SHE WAS INHERENTLY FUNNY AND DIDN'T RECOGNIZE THE PARTS OF HERSELF THAT WERE FUNNY BUT SHE WAS THAT WAY. SHE WOULD ALWAYS SAY, PEOPLE LOVE THE STORY OF SOMEBODY OVERCOMING ADVERSITY. SO IF YOU CAN MENTION IT -- SHE WANTED ME TO USE HER CANCER TO ADD AUDITION FOR "KING OF QUEENS". >> YOU HAD A COMPULSIVE NEED TO PLEASE HER AND IT HAS TO BE CONFUSING TO A CHILD. >> OH, MY GOSH. >> IS THERE A POINT, I WOULD SAY AS ADULT, YOU'VE DONE TREMENDOUS WORK TO REFLECT ON THIS. BUT WAS THERE A POINT YOU THOUGHT THIS DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT? >> I APPRECIATE THE THOUGHTFULNESS OF THAT QUESTION. AT 11 I WOULD SAY, THAT'S WHEN MOM TAUGHT ME CALORIE RESTRICTION. SHE HAD HAD EATING ISSUES FOR LONG TIME. ATTEMPT TO KEEP ME INFANTILIZED AND ALSO BOOKING ROLES IN ENTERTAINMENT WHERE IT'S VALUABLE TO LOOK YOUNGER THAN YOUR AGE, SHE TAUGHT ME CALORIE RESTRICTION, AND I STARTED WONDERING A COUPLE OF MONTHS INTO THE CALORIE RESTRICTION, I STARTED WONDERING IF SOMETHING WAS OFF. BECAUSE I COULD SENSE CONCERN IN PEOPLE AROUND ME, AND I STARTED PIECING TOGETHER, I DON'T KNOW IF REALITY IS MOM'S REALITY. BUT DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO COME TO TERMS WITH THAT. AND IT WAS WHY IT WAS IMPORTANT TO WRITE THE BOOK FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE AGE I WAS AT AS A CHILD. I THINK THAT'S THE BEST REFLECTION OF TRAUMA AND ONE OF THE BEST WAYS TO FIND THE HUMOR IN THE TRAGEDY BECAUSE AS HEARTBREAKING AS IT IS TO HEAR ABOUT OR WITNESS CHILD ABUSE, I THINK THE POINT OF VIEW OF A CHILD, NOT KNOWING IT'S TRAUMA, JUST THINKING THIS IS LIFE, THIS IS GREAT, MOM LOVES ME, I'M HER BEST FRIEND, THAT'S INHERENTLY FUNNY AND SAD AT THE SAME TIME. >> WHEN YOU WERE 21, YOUR MOM DIES, AND HAS RECURRENCE OF CANCER. AND SHE DIES. AND THAT HAD TO HAVE BEEN COMPLICATED. WAS THAT THE BEFORE AND AFTER? WAS THAT THE POINT AT WHICH YOU COULD START TO RECOVER FROM WHAT HAPPENED OR DID IT TAKE LONGER THAN THAT? >> IT TOOK LONGER. I INITIALLY WHEN SHE DIED I WAS DEVASTATED. THEN I FELT A WISP OF RELIEF. AND IMMEDIATELY THE GUILTY AND SHAME KICK IN, OH, NO, CAN'T FEEL RELIEF THAT MOM DIED. MOM WAS MY EVERYTHING, GREATEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO ME, I NEED TO LOVE AND ADORE MOM. I KEPT CLINGING DO THE NARR NARRATIVES SHE CONDITIONED ME TO HAVE. ONLY IN THERAPY, SHARING STORIES OF EXPERIENCE WITH MOM AND FRAMING THEM AS PROTECTIVELY AS I COULD TOWARD MY MOM, SHARING STORIES IN A GUARDED WAY. THERAPIST SAID WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS ABUSE, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT. AND I QUIT THAT THERAPIST, QUICK THERAPY, I'M NOT GOING TO SUBSCRIBE TO IDEA THAT MY MOM WAS ABUSIVE. AND NOW AS I SEE IT, I COULDN'T FACE THE REALITY OF THAT, WOULD MEAN AND DID MEAN REFRAMING EVERYTHING THAT I KNEW ABOUT THE WORLD AND THE WAY I SAW THE WORLD AND THE LENS -- IT JUST MEANT REFRAMING EVERYTHING AND WAS TOO DAUNTING AND OVERWHELMING AT FIRST BUT THEN EVENTUALLY I WAS ABLE TO CONFRONT THAT ABUSE AND DO THE REFRAMING WORK, WHICH IS THE MOST DIFFICULT INNER WORK I'VE EVER DONE. >> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE HOLLYWOOD SIDE OF IT. NOT LIKE YOU WERE OFF ON ISLAND IN MIDDLE OF THE SOUTH PACIFIC WHY THIS WAS GOING ON. YOU WERE SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE ALL THE TIME BUT YOU MAKE IT CLEAR THE PEOPLE RUNNING SHOWS YOU WERE PART OF HAD ELEMENTS OF ABUSIVE CONDUCT ALSO. WHICH HAS SINCE BECOME PUBLIC. YOU REFER TO THE SHOWRUNNER OF THE SHOW AS CREATOR. YOU SAY THAT HE WAS EMOTIONALLY AUT ABUSIVE AS WELL. SAY THAT NICKELODEON OFFERS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF HUSH MONEY TO NOT PUBLICLY TALK ABOUT TIME AT NICKELODEON OR EXPERIENCE WORKING WITH SHOWRUNNER YOU CALLED THE CREATOR AND YOU DIDN'T TAKE IT. I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THAT. PERSON SO PUSHED AROUND SO LONG, WHAT MADE YOU BE LIKE NO. >> I WILL SAY THIS, I'M WARY OF THIS AREA OF THE BOOK BECAUSE IT'S BEEN SO PUBLICIZED AND HEADLINY FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM AND I THINK THE BOOK'S SO MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT THAN THIS. I WANT TO MORE CELEBRATE THE POSITIVE ASPECTS OF THE BOOK AND HUMOR AND HEALING THAT THE BOOK HAS TO OFFER, WHICH IS SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN MY ACTING CAREER. >> WELL, I WOULD SAY THIS, FIRST OF ALL I'LL SAY THIS, WE REACHED OUT TO NICKELODEON AND REPRESENTATIVES FOR THE CREATOR ABOUT YOUR CLAIMS. NICKELODEON HAD NO COMMENT, HAVEN'T HEARD FROM RI REPRESENTATIVES OF THE CREATOR. FRIEND OF MINE WHO WORKED IN HOLLYWOOD AS JOURNALIST, IT'S TERRIBLE PLACE FOR KIDS BECAUSE FILLED WITH ADULTS WHO DON'T WANT TO GROW UP. IS THERE TRUTH TO THAT? >> IT'S SO FUNNY, MAYBE THE ADULTS DON'T WANT TO GROW UP, MAYBE THE KIDS ARE FORCED TO. THING ABOUT BEING A KID IN E ENTERTAINMENT, A LOT OF FELLOW CHILD PERFORMERS THAT I GREW UP WITH WERE SO INCREDIBLY BRIGHT. COULD JUST SENSE HOW SMART THEY WERE. BUT SMART DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE NOT NAVE, AND NOT GULLIBLE AND NOT INFLUENCEABLE. AND I THINK AS SMART AS YOU'RE FORCED TO BE FROM EARLY AGE IN THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY, YOU'RE STILL NAVE AND IT'S AN ADULT'S GAME THAT I DIDN'T HAVE THE TOOLS TO PLAY, AND I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO NAVIGATE THAT WORLD. BUT I DO HOPE THAT WITH THE WORK I'M DOING NOW, I REALLY HOPE THERE'S POSITIVE CHANGE THAT HAPPENS FOR CHILD PERFORMERS NOW. WOULD LOVE IF THERE WAS A CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST PRESENT ON SETS TO HELP THE CHILD UNDERSTAND -- BECAUSE YOU'RE A KID, DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS IS MY CHARACTER'S PSYCHOLOGY, DIFFERENT FROM MINE, YOU'RE JUST DOING WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO. LOVE TO HAVE PSYCHOLOGIST ON SAID TO WALK THE CHILD THROUGH THE EXPERIENCE WITH RESPECT AND COMPASSION THEY DESERVE. >> ONE OF YOUR COSTARS, MIRANDA COSGROVE SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN ALLY. >> 100%. I ADORE MIRANDA AND WILL ALWAYS. SHE WAS FRIEND AT TIME WHEN I REALLY NEEDED ONE. SO THERE FOR ME. HOPE I WAS THERE FOR HER IN THE SAME WAY. >> WHAT CAUSED YOU TO FINALLY BE ABLE TO MAKE THESE CHANGES FOR YOURSELF? AS YOU POINTED OUT, MOM DIED WHEN YOU WERE 21, AND YOU WERE STILL LIVING WITH THE LEGACY OF WHAT SHE HAD GIVEN YOU, REALLY SERIOUS EATING DISORDERS THAT COULD HAVE KILLED YOU. >> I WOULD FRAME ALL THIS IN THE BOOK, IT'S SORT OF O ONE-TWO-THREE-FOUR-FIVE PUNCH THAT LED ME TO ROCK BOTTOM. I IDENTIFIED THEN, THINGS CANNOT GET WORSE. I NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON. THERE'S NO WAY BUT UP FROM HERE. FIRST STEP I TOOK WAS TO START WORKING WITH EATING DISORDER SPECIALIST. THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK -- I KNOW FOR ME, I COULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN TO THE DEEPER, MORE NUANCED PERSONAL WORK AND UNPACKING OF CHILDHOOD AND ADOLESCENCE AND FAME AND MY MOM -- COULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT IF I DIDN'T HAVE THE EATING DISORDER UNDER CONTROL. JUST THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IMPOSSIBLE. IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF GETTING HANDLE ON THAT ADDICTION, AND DOING THE DEEPER WORK UNDERNEATH IT. >> SPENT TOO MANY YEARS OF YOUR LIFE WORRYING ABOUT WHAT YOUR MOM WOULD THINK, THERE'S THAT. I DO WONDER IF IT WOULD HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE IF YOU COULD GET TO PLACE TO STAND APART FROM IT AND ASSAY TO HER THIS IS MY TRUTH, DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? >> I FANTASIZE OF THERE BEING A REALITY WHERE IF SHE STAYED ALIVE I WOULD HAVE CONFRONTED HER AND HAD AMAZING MOMENT WHERE SHE APOLOGIZED, BUT THAT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED, KNOWING WHO SHE WAS. I TRULY BELIEVE THE ONLY REASON I'M ABLE TO HAVE IDENTITY OF MY OWN AND TO HAVE FULFILLMENT IS BECAUSE SHE DIED. I THINK ALL OF THIS PROCESSING HAPPENED AFTER, AND BECAUSE OF, HER DEATH. >> HENCE WHY THE TITLE. >> EXACTLY. >> THE SHOW THAT MADE YOU FAMOUS, "I, CARLY," MANY PEOPLE LOVE IT BUT CAUSED YOU PAIN. FOR GIRLS AND BOYS WHO LOVED THAT SHOW, IS IT OKAY? IS IT OKAY THEY LOVED IT? >> MORE THAN OKAY. SO HAPPY IT MADE SO MANY PEOPLE LAUGH AND EXPERIENCE JOY. AND I'M -- I'M HAPPY IT PROVIDED THAT FOR THEM. AND I'M EVEN MORE HAPPY NOW THAT A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO WATCHED THE SHOW ARE READING THE BOOK AND CONNECTING IN WHAT I THINK AND HOPE IS A MUCH DEEPER WAY THAN MAYBE WHAT THEIR EXPERIENCE WAS WITH THAT. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.