Amanpour and Company

>>> WELL, OUR NEXT GUESTS BELIEVE INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION IS THE KEY TO MANAGING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

FOUNDER OF THE EURASIA GROUP IAN BREMMER, AND MUSTAFA SULEYMAN DISCUSSING WITH WALTER ISAACSON.

>> THANK YOU, BIANNA.

IAN BREMMER, MUST THAT FA SULEMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> YOU HAVE THE PIECE THAT CAME OUT, CALLED "THE A.I.

POWER PARADOX."

LET ME START WITH IAN.

WHAT DOES THAT TITLE MEAN?

>> WELL, IT MEANS THAT, FOR MY LIFETIME, WHEN I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT POWER AROUND THE WORLD, I THOUGHT IN TERMS OF GOVERNMENTS.

AND, YOU KNOW, A YEAR AGO, YOU TALKED TO A HEAD OF STATE, YOU TALKED TO THE HEAD OF THE U.N., THE IMF, THOSE ORGANIZATIONS, THEY WEREN'T ASKING YOU ABOUT A.I., NOW THEY ARE.

IT'S A TOP PRIORITY.

I'VE THEN SEEN THAT BEFORE.

AND YET, THE ACTORS THAT ACTUAL LY MARTIAL CONTROL, SOVEREIGNTY OVER ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, NOT GOVERNMENTS.

THEY'RE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

THEY'RE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES, SO THE MOST GRA MATIC GEOPOLITICAL CHANGE IN MY LIFETIME HAPPENS TO BE ONE THAT'S DEVELOPED COMPLETELY OUTSIDE OF THE GOVERNMENTS THAT CONTROL, THAT HAVE CONTROLLED POWER, AND IT'S THE ONE PIECE THAT I'VE PUT TOGETHER THAT I FELT INCAPABLE OF DOING MYSELF, PRECISELY BECAUSE I'M A POLITICAL SCIENTIST, I'M NOT A TECHNOLOGIST.

SO, WE REALLY HAD TO PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER HERE.

>> LET ME TURN TO MUSTAFA, THEN, ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY.

YOU HAVE A BOOK COMING OUT CALLED "THE COMING WAVE" AND I'VE READ IT, IT EXPLAINS THE TECHNOLOGY IN DEPTH ABOUT ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, BUT TELL US, WHAT WILL IT DO TO SOCIETY AND HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE?

ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A DOZEN YEARS FROM NOW, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT NEXT YEAR?

>> I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN THE NEXT DECADE.

EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD GETTING ACCESS TO AN INTELLIGENCE AGENT THAT IS AS GOOD AS THE TOP PROFESSOR, THE MOST KIND AND SUPPORTIVE COACH OR COUNSELOR, AS GOOD AS THE VERY BEST RESEARCH ASSISTANT THAT YOU MIGHT WANT AS A SCIENTIST IN YOUR LAB HELPING YOU TO SYNTHESIZE INFORMATION, PROVIDE YOU WITH SUMMARIES AND REPORTS.

THINK OF IT AS A TURBOCHARGER TO EVERYTHING WE MIGHT DO IN THE WORLD.

HAVING THE VERY BEST CHIEF OF STAFF IN YOUR POCKET.

EVERYBODY IS NOW GOING TO GET ACCESS TO THIS NEW TOOL, JUST AS OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS, EVERYBODY IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD HAS GOT ACCESS TO SMARTPHONES, NO MATTER HOW RICH YOU ARE, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU'RE A BILLIONAIRE OR WHETHER YOU OWN 20,000 BUCKS A YEAR, WE ALL GET THE SAME SUPER HIGH QUALITY SMARTPHONE.

AND THAT'S AN INCREDIBLE MOMENT, THE TOP BILLION OR SO OF US.

WE'RE ON THE SAME TRAJECTORY FOR ACCESS TO INTELLIGENCE.

>> WHY SHOULD WE BE WORRIED THEN?

>> I THINK JUST AS IT AMPLIFIES THE GOOD ACTORS, JUST AS IT FUNCTIONS AS A TEACHER AND A SUPPORT AND A MOTIVATOR AND AN EDUCATOR, PEOPLE WITH BAD INTENTIONS WILL ALSO USE IT TO HELP GO ABOUT THEIR GOALS.

RIGHT?

THESE ARE TOOLS THAT ARE FOR SURE GOING TO BE USED TO SPREAD MISINFORMATION, THEY'RE GOING TO BE USED TO DRIVE GREATER WEDGES BETWEEN US AS SOCIETIES, TO MAKE US FEAR ONE ANOTHER.

THEY'RE FOR SURE GOING TO BE USED TO MAKE CYBER ATTACKS EASIER.

I'VE SEEN EXPERIMENTAL TEST USE CASES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN USING LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS AS COACHES FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF BIO WEAPONS.

THIS MEANS THAT YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE THE SAME UNDERGRADUATE LEVEL SKILLS IN BIOLOGY TO SYNTHESIZE COMPOUNDS, BECAUSE YOU HAVE THIS AID ALONGSIDE UP.

IT REDUCES THE BARRIER TO ENTRY TO BE ABLE TO CAUSE CHAOS.

AND THAT'S POTENTIALLY EXTREMELY DISRUPTIVE.

>> SO, IAN, YOUR GROUP, AND YOU'RE CONSULTING, THE WRITING YOU'VE DONE, IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT HOW GEOPOLITICS WORKS, AND IT'S ALWAYS BEEN BASED ON NATION STATES.

HOW COUNTRIES DEAL WITH ONE ANOTHER AND IN THIS PIECE, YOU ALL WRITE THAT IT CAN'T BE REGULATED, A.I., THE WAY PREVIOUS TECHNOLOGIES HAVE BEEN REGULATED.

I JUST WATCHED "OPPENHEIMER," WHY IS IT MORE DIFFICULT THAN THE ATOM BOMB?

WE REGULATED THAT.

>> IT WAS VERY COMPLEX TO GET YOUR HANDS ON THE MATERIAL, IT REQUIRED A LOT OF EXPERTISE, THERE WERE VERY DIFFERENT COMPONENTS OF IT.

BASICALLY, ONLY GOVERNMENTS WERE REALLY CAPABLE OF ACTORS OF GETTING AHOLD OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

AND THE AMERICANS AND THE SOVIETS, EVEN THOUGH WE HATED EACH OTHER, WERE PREPARED TO TALK TO EACH OTHER, BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZED THE TERRIBLE DANGERS THAT A NUCLEAR ARMAGEDDON WOULD RELAY.

AS YOU JUST HEARD FROM MUSTAFA, THERE ARE ASPECTS OF A.I.

IN THE WRONG HANDS THAT HAVE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF ANALOGIES TO HOW WE THINK OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, EXCEPT THAT THE PROLIFERATION DANGER OF A.I.

IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ANYBODY WITH A SMARTPHONE, OR, YOU KNOW, WITH A DECENT COMPUTER AT THEIR HANDS.

AND THEY'RE NOT JUST STATE ACTORS, THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY NONSTATE ACTORS.

SO, GOVERNMENTS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS NOT ONLY VERY FAST-MOVING, AND IT'S MASSIVELY PROLIFERATED, BUT ALSO, THAT THE GOVERNMENTS THEMSELVES ARE NOT IN A POSITION, THEY DON'T HAVE THE EXPERTISE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THESE ALGORITHMS DO.

IT'S THE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES.

SO, THE GOVERNANCE ITSELF IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE A HYBRID MODEL OF TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES AND GOVERNMENTS TOGETHER.

I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MEANS IT'S TREATY SIGNATORIES, BUT YOU WON'T HAVE GOVERNMENTS THAT WILL BE ABLE TO DRIVE THIS REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT, THESE NEW INSTITUTIONS THEMSELVES.

THAT WILL BE A ROAD TO RUIN.

>> AFTER WORLD WAR II, AFTER THE DROPPING OF THE ATOM BOMB, WE CREATED THESE GREAT GOVERNANCE STRUCTURES, LIKE THE UNITED NATIONS, OR, YOU KNOW, THE WORLD BANK, MANY OTHER THINGS, NATO, THAT DID IT.

IT'S ALL GOVERNMENTS AT THAT TABLE.

ARE YOU ACTUALLY, IAN, ENVISIONS SORT OF A NEW TYPE OF UNITED NATIONS ORGANIZATION THAT HAS BOTH GOOGLE AND META AND AMAZON, AS WELL AS THE U.S. AND CHINA ANDSITTING AT THE SAME TABLE?

>> WE'RE ENVISIONING A COUPLE OF THINGS.

ONE IS SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE THE UNITED NATIONS INTERGOVERNMENTAL PANEL ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

WALTER, THE ONE REASON WHY WE NOW ALL AGREE THAT THERE'S 1.2 DEGREES OF GLOBAL WARMING, DESPITE ALL OF THE FAKE NEWS AND DISINFORMATION, IS BECAUSE YOU'VE HAD GOVERNMENTS AND SCIENTISTS AND CORPORATE LEADERS AND PUBLIC POLICY TYPES FROM EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD ALL TOGETHER TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHERE CLIMATE CHANGE IS GOING.

SO, WE KNOW HOW MANY PARTICLES OF CARBON ARE IN THE ATMOSPHERE, WE KNOW HOW MUCH METHANE, WE KNOW THE DEFORESTATION.

THAT'S A CRITICAL, CRITICAL ASPECT OF FIGHTING CLIMATE CHANGE.

AND WITH A.I., SO MUCH MORE URGENT AND FAST-MOVING, YOU WILL NEED AN ORGANIZATION LIKE THAT, MULTISTAKEHOLDER.

BUFF ANOTHER THING WE'RE CALLING FOR IS A TECHNO-CREDENTIAL APPROACH.

LIKE YOU SEE IN THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL COMMUNITY.

A GEOTECHNOLOGY STABILITY BOARD, WHERE YOU WILL HAVE GOVERNMENTS AND NONSTATE ACTORS TOGETHER BEING ABLE TO RESPOND TO CRISES IN REAL-TIME ALSO THEY OCCUR.

THIS ISN'T LIKE THE UNITED NATIONS, THIS IS MORE LIKE HOW THE WORLD RESPONDED TO THE 2008 FINANCIAL CRISIS.

AND WHERE EVEN THOUGH THERE WERE DIFFERENT GOVERNMENTS, THE UNITED STATES AND CHINA ARE MEMBERS OF THE IMF, THE BANK OF INTERNATIONAL SETTLEMENTS.

YOU WILL NEED A.I.

INSTITUTIONS TO BE SIMILARLY INCLUSIVE AND SIMILARLY NONPOLITICIZED, TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO CHALLENGES THAT ARE FUNDAMENTALLY GLOBAL.

>> WELL, MUSTAFA, YOU TALK ABOUT THREE DIFFERENT LAYERS OF GOVERNANCE, REGIMES THAT YOU NEED, AND THE FIRST ONE IS -- SOMETHING TO ESTABLISH JUST WHAT THE FACTS ARE.

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK NEEDS TO BE ESTABLISHED IN TERMS OF THE FACTS OF THE TECHNOLOGY?

>> SO, AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL PANEL ON A.I.

WOULD BE ONE THAT HAS ACCESS TO ALL OF THE LARGEST COMMERCIAL LABS AND ACADEMIC LABS, ALL AROUND THE WORLD, DEVELOPING THESE LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS.

THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO PROBE THEM AND TEST THEM, AUDIT THEM, LOOK AT WHAT DATA, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE USING TO DO TRAINING, AND TRY TO FIND WEAKNESSES, AND MODES IN THE MODELS.

ONCE THEY DISCOVER THOSE, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO SHARE THOSE WITH OTHER NATIONAL OR INTERNATIONAL COMMERCIAL COME PETTER TOS, IN ORDER TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THOSE MODELS.

BUT THE FIRST STEP IS REALLY JUST UNDERSTANDING AND AUDITING AND ESTABLISHING THE FACT PATTERN OF, WHAT ARE THE BOUNDARIES THAT THESE MODELS CAN'T CROSS TODAY?

AND WHERE MIGHT THEY BE HELDED IN THE FUTURE?

>> AND THE SECOND STEP, IAN, AT LEAST ACCORDING TO YOUR PIECE, IS TO PREVENT AN ARMS RACE.

HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

>> YOU'D THINK IT WOULD BE HARD, BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES AND CHINA, WE DON'T EVEN HAVE DIRECT HIGH LEVEL MILITARY TO MILITARY CONVERSATIONS TODAY.

AND YET, WALTER, AS YOU KNOW AND I KNOW, DURING THE COLD WAR, THE AMERICANS AND THE SOVIETS, WITH MUCH LESS IN COMMON, WITH VIRTUALLY NO INTERDEPENDENCE BETWEEN THE TWO GREAT COUNTRIES, NONETHELESS WORKED TOGETHER TO ENSURE THAT WE UNDERSTOOD WHAT KIND OF NUCLEAR CAPABILITIES WE WERE DEVELOPING, AND WE WERE PUTTING LIMITS ON THEM.

SO, WHEN I LOOK, WHEN MUSTAFA AND I LOOK AT HOW FAST A.I.

IS BEING DEPLOYED, AND THE FACT THAT EVERYTHING IS DUAL USE.

THESE GENERAL MODELS, YOU CAN USE THEM FOR CIVILIAN PURPOSES, AND THE SAME MODELS, YOU CAN USE FOR NATIONAL SECURITY.

IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF HOW HARD IT'S GOING TO BE TO TALK WITH THE CHINESE, IT'S THE FACT THAT THERE'S NO ALTERNATIVE.

I MEAN, THE TWO COUNTRIES AND THEIR TECHNOLOGY CORPORATIONS THAT ARE DRIVING THESE EXISTENTIALLY IMPORTANT, FOR GOOD AND POTENTIALLY FOR BAD TECHNOLOGIES, IF THEY DON'T TALK WITH EACH OTHER, IF THEY DON'T CREATE MECHANISMS TO ENGAGE WITH EACH OTHER AROUND THE DANGERS OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES, THEN, WE'RE GOING TO END UP DESTROYING EACH OTHER.

>> LET ME READ A SENTENCE FROM YOUR PIECE THAT JUMPED OUT, WHICH IS, "A.I.

WILL EMPOWER THOSE WHO WIELD IT TO SURVEY, TO DECEIVE, AND EVEN CONTROL POPULATIONS."

ONE ASSUMES COMPANIES COULD DO THAT, BUT ALSO NATION STATES COULD DO THAT.

IT COULD SUPERCHARGE, YOU SAY, THE COLLECTION OF THE USE OF PERSONAL DATA IN DEMOCRACIES AND SHARPEN THE TOOLS OF REPRESSION THAT AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENTS USE TO SUBDUE THEIR POPULOUS.

TELL ME WHERE YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING, AND MAYBE -- AND THEN I'LL ASK IAN TO COMPARE AND CONTRAST THE WAY THE UNITED STATES MIGHT BE DOING THIS, AND WHAT IT MIGHT MEAN IN CHINA.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THAT THE WAY TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS THAT IT ACTUALLY 'EM POWERS AND AMPLIFIES POWER WHEREVER IT IS.

SO, WHATEVER THE AGENDA, IT IS A TOOL FOR REDUCING THE BARRIER TO ENTRY TO ACTION IN THAT ENVIRONMENT.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE TOO IMAGINATIVE TO SEE HOW THIS IS BEING MISUSED IN CHINA, OR USED FOR LARGE-SCALE STATE SURVEILLANCE.

I MEAN, THESE ARE TOOLS THAT BASICALLY PROCESS VAST AMOUNTS OF INFORMATION, ENABLING, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE SENSE OF VIDEO STREAM DATA, TRACK FACES, IDENTIFY PEOPLE AS THEY'RE MOVING AROUND CITIES.

AND OBVIOUSLY, THAT IS A VERY DYSTOPIAN AND DARK OUTCOME, ONE THAT WE WANT TO AVOID.

AND THE CHALLENGES THAT -- HARNESSING THE UPSIDE WHILE MITIGATING THE DOWNSIDES IS GOING TO BE THE STORY OF THE NEXT 20 YEARS.

AND SOME STATES WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS TO ENTRENCH THEIR AUTHORITARIANISM, SO, WE IN THE WEST HAVE TO DEFEND OUR VALUES, AND NOT SLIP INTO AUTHORITARIANISM.

THAT'S GOING TO BE OUR GREAT CHALLENGE, IS TO WITHSTAND THAT PRESSURE TO WANT TO SURVEIL EVERYTHING.

>> AND THE CHINESE -- THE CHINESE ARE CERTAINLY AWARE OF THE POWER OF A.I.

TO INCREASE THE GOVERNMENT'S ABILITY TO SURVEIL, REPRESS, AND NUDGE THEIR POPULATION INTO SO-CALLED PATRIOTIC BEHAVIORS.

THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT HAS VIRTUALLY DONE NONE OF THAT DOMESTICALLY, IT'S BEEN THIS THE HANDS OF CORPORATE ACTORS.

THOSE CORPORATE ACTORS ARE NOT INTERESTED IN SUBVERTING DEMOCRACY, BUT POLARIZATION HAS HAPPENED TO BE VERY ALIGNED WITH THEIR COMMERCIAL AND BUSINESS MODELS, AS THEY'RE DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO GENERATE MORE CLICKS, MORE ENGAGEMENT, BUILD MORE DATA.

SO, THE QUESTION IS GOING TO BE, HOW WILL THE UNITED STATES, THE EUROPEANS, AND OTHER GOVERNMENTS OSTENSIBLY DRIVEN BY RULE OF LAW WORK TOGETHER WITH THESE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES TO HARNESS THE PRODUCTIVITY THAT COMES FROM A.I., WITHOUT SLIPPING INTO AUTHORITARIANISM, BECAUSE AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, THE EASIEST WAY FOR GOVERNMENTS TO ALIGN WITH TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES AROUND A.I.

IS TO FORGET ABOUT THE COMMON INTEREST AND WILL OF THE AVERAGE CITIZEN.

IT WILL BE TO USE THE POWER TO SURVEIL.

TO USE THE POWER TO CONTROL AND TO NUDGE.

AND THAT IS -- THAT'S CONTRARY TO EVERYTHING THAT WE ARE AS CITIZENS OF A REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY.

>> MUSTAFA, YOU WERE AT THE MEETING WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN WHEN HE CONVENED THE PIONEERS OF A.I., INCLUDING YOURSELF, TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

WHAT DID YOU SAID TO HIM AND WHAT WAS THAT MEETING LIKE?

>> THE PRESIDENT WAS ACTUALLY PRETTY WELL-BRIEFED ON THIS ISSUE.

WE SPENT QUITE A LONG TIME TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE DETAILS OF WHAT WE WOULD DO IN PRACTICE TOGETHER.

HE WAS VERY KEEN THAT WE COOPERATE WITH ONE ANOTHER AS COMPETITIVE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES.

ONE OF THE WAYS THAT HE'S PROPOSED THAT WE DO THAT IS THAT WE ESTABLISH BEST PRACTICES FOR SHARING INFORMATION ABOUT THE WEAKNESSES OF OUR OWN MODELS, BECAUSE IF MY -- IF I IDENTIFY THAT MY LARGE LANGUAGE MODEL IS VULNERABLE TO A CERTAIN TYPE OF EXPLOIT, IT MIGHT BE THAT'S IT GOOD AT GENERATING ATTACKS IN A CYBER SECURITY THREAT ENVIRONMENT, THEN I SHOULD SHARE THAT WITH MY COMPETITORS AND WITH OTHER NATION STATES, POTENTIALLY, SO THAT THEY CAN BATCH UP THOSE WEAKNESSES.

AND THAT'S THE KIND OF PROACTIVE, I THINK, BEHAVIOR THAT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF EVERYBODY.

AND ONE OF THE PROPOSALS THAT CAME OUT OF THE MEETING WITH BIDEN.

HE WAS ACTUALLY VERY -- I WAS SURPRISED, ACTUALLY, AT HOW FORWARD-THINKING HE WAS AND THE ADMINISTRATION WAS ON THIS ISSUE.

>> AND IAN, IS THIS SOMETHING WHERE WE CAN FIND COMMON GROUND WITH CHINA?

AND MIGHT EVEN BE A WAY THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER?

OR ARE WE INEVITABLY GOING TO BE IN CONFLICT OVER THIS?

>> NOT TOMORROW, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT AS THIS -- THIS TECHNOLOGY PROLIFERATES INTO THE HANDS OF MORE AND MORE PRIVATE SECTOR ACTORS, INTO THE HANDS OF INDIVIDUALS THAT CAN RUN THESE MODELS ON THEIR SMARTPHONES, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO SUDDENLY SEE THE UNITED STATES AND CHINA WITH VERY SIMILAR CHALLENGES.

THEY'RE BOTH GOING TO WANT TO MAINTAIN SOVEREIGNTY.

THE U.S. AND CHINA HAS AN INTEREST IN ENSURES THAT CRYPTO-CURRENCIES TONIGHT THREATEN CURRENCIES TO TAKE AWAY GOVERNANCE AND POWER FROM THE STATE.

A.I.

WILL DO THAT IN SPADES.

AND SO I DO BELIEVE THAT IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT AVOIDING A COLD WAR, IT'S ALSO ABOUT MAINTAINING STABILITY OF THE EXISTING SYSTEM, AND IN THAT REGARD, CHINA HAS PROBABLY SOON TO BE THE LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD, PART OF A GLOBALIZED TRADE SYSTEM, A COUNTRY THAT IS THE LARGEST CREDITOR FOR THE DEVELOPING WORLD, I MEAN, CHINA'S JUST AS MUCH A PART OF INCUMBENCY FOR WANTING THE PRESENT SYSTEM TO SUSTAIN ITSELF, AS THE UNITED STATES.

THIS ISN'T RUSSIA.

THIS ISN'T NORTH KOREA.

IT'S NOT A ROGUE STATE.

AND SO, IN THAT REGARD, THESE TWO COUNTRIES DO HAVE VERY STRONG INTERESTS TO ULTIMATELY WORK TOGETHER AROUND A.I.

UNFORTUNATELY, DOMESTIC POLITICS RIGHT NOW ARE ALL POINTED IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION, WHICH I'M SURE IS PART OF WHY YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION.

I DO THINK IT WILL LIKELY TAKE A FEW SLAPS IN THE FACE, SOME CRISES THAT OCCUR AROUND A.I., BEFORE IT BECOMES OBVIOUS HOW -- JUST HOW FAR THE AMERICANS AND THE CHINESE WORK TOGETHER, AND MUSTAFA AND I, OUR PURPOSE IN THIS PIECE IS TO REALLY TRY TO GET SOME OF THE WORLD LEADERS TO START THINKING IN THESE WAYS BEFORE THAT CRISIS OCCURS, SO IT'S OBVIOUSLY HOW WE PICK IT UP.

>> IAN BREMMER, MUSTAFA SULEYMAN, THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND FOR WRITING THIS PIECE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, IT'S BEEN GREAT.