Amanpour and Company

>>> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP .

>> THE MOST IMPORTANT THING RIGHT NOW IS TO GUARANTEE PEACE AND SECURITY FOR THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF MEXICO.

>> VIOLENCE AND UNREST IN MEXICO FOLLOWING THE KILLING OF A CARTEL LEADER.

I ASKED A POLITICAL SCIENTIST ABOUT THE OPERATION AND ITS AFTERMATH.

THEN -- >> THE SUPREME COURT RULING ON TARIFFS IS DEEPLY DISAPPOINTING.

>> TRUMP ANNOUNCES MORE GLOBAL TARIFFS AFTER AMERICA'S HIGHEST COURT DEEMED HIS PREVIOUS ONES ILLEGAL.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR EXISTING TRADE DEALS AND CONSUMERS?

OUR BUDGET PRESIDENT NATASHA SERIN WILL WEIGH IN .

>> PLUS.

>> WE WILL NOT BOW DOWN IN THE FACE OF THESE DIFFICULTIES.

>> AS WASHINGTON PUTS PRESSURE ON IRAN AHEAD OF NUCLEAR TALKS THIS WEEK, PROTESTS ARE REIGNITING IN IRAN.

WE GET THE DETAILS .

>> WE SPENT MOST OF OUR NIGHT LISTENING.

>> NEARLY FOUR DECADES OF JAZZ AT THE LINCOLN CENTER.

A LEGENDARY MUSICIAN FOR FLEX IN HIS CAREER WITH WALTER ISAACSON.

> >> ALMOND POOR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON & JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN AND BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE.

WE ARE IN NEW YORK.

I'M SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANNE AMANPOUR.

WE START THIS HOUR WITH MAJOR BREAKING NEWS FROM THE UK.

FORMER BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES, PETER MENDELSSOHN, HAS BEEN ARRESTED ON SUSPICION OF MISCONDUCT IN PUBLIC OFFICE.

HE HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF PASSING MARKET SENSITIVE INFORMATION TO CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER JEFFREY EPSTEIN WHILE SERVING IN GOVERNMENT AS BUSINESS SECRETARY.

TWO OF HIS PROPERTIES HAVE BEEN SEARCHED BY POLICE.

OF COURSE THIS COMES DAYS AFTER THE ARREST OF THE KING'S BROTHER , ANDREW WINDSOR.

HE WAS ALSO ARRESTED ON SUSPICION OF THIS CONDUCT IN PUBLIC OFFICE.

BOTH MEN PREVIOUSLY DENIED WRONGDOING IN CONNECTION WITH JEFFREY EPSTEIN.

THE RELEASE OF THE EPSTEIN FILES CLEARLY SENDING SHOCK WAVES THROUGH BRITISH SOCIETY.

WILL HAVE MORE ON THIS STORY LATER IN THE PROGRAM.

> >> NOW WE TURN TO HIGHER, SMOKE AND CHAOS IN MEXICO AS GANG MEMBERS THERE RETALIATED AGAINST THE KILLING OF A MOST WANTED CARTEL BOSS, "EL MENCHO. "

THEY TORCHED BUSES AND BUSINESSES AND CLASHED WITH SECURITY FORCES AND SET HUNDREDS OF BLOCKADES ACROSS 20 MEXICAN STATES.

THE UNITED STATES SAID IT PROVIDED INTELLIGENCE FOR THE OPERATION IN THE JALISCO STATE.

AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT IS URGING AMERICAN CITIZENS IN PARTS OF MEXICO TO SHELTER IN PLACE.

THE MEXICAN PRESIDENT TOLD THE COUNTRY THIS MORNING THAT PEACE AND SECURITY IS BEING MAINTAINED AND STRESS IS A KEY ROLE THAT THE MEXICAN MILITARY PLAYED IN THIS OPERATION .

>> THE OPERATIONS WERE ALL PLANNED BY NATIONAL FORCES .

THERE WAS NO PLANNING BY U. S. GOVERNMENT.

BUT WE DID HAVE INTELLIGENCE COOPERATION CERTAINLY .

INTELLIGENCE AND INFORMATION EXCHANGES WERE SUBSTANTIAL BUT ALL OF THE OPERATION RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING WAS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF MEXICO AND THE NATIONAL DEFENSE.

>> "EL MENCHO" HAD BEEN PART OF THE MEXICAN CARTELS FOR DECADES, HAVING BUILT UP THE JALISCO NEW GENERATION CARTEL INTO ONE OF MEXICO'S STRONGEST.

THE U. S. OFFERED $15 MILLION FOR INFORMATION LEADING TO HIS ARREST .

> >> LET'S GO NOW TO MEXICO CITY AND SPEAK TO A MEXICAN SCHOLAR AND EDITOR OF THE SUBJECT MEXICAN DECODED.

GARY, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

TALK ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE SEPARATION ONE CAN ONLY COMPARE "EL MENCHO" TO THE CAPTURE OF JOAQUN "EL CHAPO" GUZMN BACK IN 2019.

>> THAT IS RIGHT.

THE CAPTURE AND KILLING OF "EL MENCHO" IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST BLOW TO CARTEL LEADERSHIP IN MANY YEARS.

THIS IS THE LARGEST AND MOST POWERFUL CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION IN MEXICO.

AND IT IS NOW MUCH STRONGER THAN IT WAS , AT ONE TIME RUN BY JOAQUN "EL CHAPO" GUZMN WHO IS NOW SERVING TIME IN PRISON.

THE CAPTURE AND KILLING OF "EL MENCHO" I WOULD SAY MIX CONSEQUENCES TO MEXICO.

IN THE SHORT TERM OF COURSE, IT IS AWAKENING THE CARTEL.

ON THE SHORT-TERM IN THE MEDIUM- TERM, EXPERIENCE SHOWS THAT VIOLENCE RISES AFTER A TOP LEADER OF A CARTEL IS REMOVED.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT MEXICAN CARTELS TEND TO SPLIT INTO RIVAL GROUPS THAT FREQUENTLY FIGHT EACH OTHER FOR TERRITORIAL CONTROL.

SO THE MAIN ISSUE HERE IS NOT ONLY TO CAPTURE THE DRUG CARTELS BUT TO GO TO THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM.

THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE U. S. HAS NOT INVESTED ENOUGH AND HAVING A PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEM THAT IS CAPABLE OF ABUSING ILLEGAL DRUG USE WITHIN THE U. S. AND AS LONG AS CONSUMPTION AND DEMAND IN THE U. S. CONTINUE, MEXICO WILL CONTINUE TO CONTINUE.

DX THE NEXT IS TRAFFICKING.

MEXICAN OFFICIALS IDENTIFIED 80% OF WEAPONS USED BY "EL MENCHO" CAME FROM THE UNITED STATES .

>> AND SO, IN RESPONSE TO THE OPERATION, SUCCESSFUL OPERATION, TAKING OUT "EL MENCHO" YESTERDAY , MEXICO'S DEFENSE MINISTER DESCRIBED THIS AS A SUCCESS AND SAID THERE WAS LOW CASUALTY FALLOUT FROM IT.

AND HE PRAISED THE OPERATION AND THE MEXICAN ARMED FORCES THAT CONDUCTED IT.

HERE'S WHAT HE SAID SAID.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE EFFORT OF THE MILITARY STAFF WHICH CARRIED OUT A VERY SUCCESSFUL OPERATION FROM MANY POINTS OF VIEW .

AND I THINK IT SHOWED THE STRENGTH OF THE MEXICAN REPUBLIC .

>> IS HE RIGHT THERE?

IS IT TIME AND IS IT WARRANTED TO VIEW THIS AS A VICTORY LAP ?

I WOULD IMAGINE THAT IN THE COST- BENEFIT ANALYSIS AND PLAYING ALL OF THIS OUT IN THE RESPONSE, THAT YOU WOULD SEE FROM THE CJ NG, THAT THIS REACTION WAS EXPECTED TO SEE THESE TYPES OF ATTACKS THROUGHOUT MULTIPLE STATES IN RETALIATION .

>> YES.

THE REACTION WAS EXPECTED.

THIS IS PRECISELY THE COST THAT MEXICO IS GOING TO HAVE .

BECAUSE OF THAT, THE U. S. IS NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO HAVE ON TERRITORY.

BECAUSE OF THAT, THE RAID WAS CARRIED OUT BY MEXICAN AUTHORITIES SUPPORTED BY U. S. INTELLIGENCE.

I WOULD SAY THIS IS THE SUCCESS OF A LATERAL NATION.

OVERALL, 15 CARTEL MEMBERS WERE KILLED DURING THE OPERATION AND ONE MEMBER OF THE MEXICAN ARMED FORCES WITH THE CARTEL.

AS YOU KNOW, I'M TALKING TO YOU FROM MEXICO CITY.

AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT OVERALL, IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY, LIFE IS SLOWLY RETURNING TO NORMAL .

AFTER THE OPERATION, AS YOU MENTIONED, CARTEL REACTED WITH VIOLENCE.

WE HAD PLENTY -- MANY, UP TO 250 ROADBLOCKS IN 20 DIFFERENT STATES.

ALL OF THEM HAVE NOW BEEN CLEARED.

PARTICULARLY IN THE STATE OF JALISCO, WHICH IS WHERE THE OPERATION HAPPENED.

PUBLIC TRANSPORT AND ALSO CLASSES WERE SUSPENDED.

BUT THE COUNTRY IS EXPECTED TO HAVE LIFE RETURNED TO NORMAL ENTIRELY TOMORROW.

>> IT IS IMPORTANT TO HIGHLIGHT THAT BOTH THE UNITED STATES AND MEXICO SAY THAT THIS WAS AN OPERATION THAT WAS LED BY MEXICAN AUTHORITIES WITH THE HELP OF THE UNITED STATES INTELLIGENCE, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN MANY THREATS FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP IN PARTICULAR ABOUT TAKING UNILATERAL ACTION AND GOING AFTER THESE CARTELS SINCE HE HAS LABELED THEM TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS.

AT ONE POINT, HE EVEN SAID THAT CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM WAS QUOTE VERY FRIGHTENED OF THE CARTELS .

GIVEN THE FACT THAT SHE AUTHORIZED THE SUCCESSFUL OPERATION, DO YOU THINK THIS HAS BOUGHT HER OR ALLOWED FOR MORE OF A RECONCILIATION BETWEEN HER AND PRESIDENT TRUMP ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE ?

>> I WOULD QUESTION WHETHER PRESIDENT TRUMP TRULY WANTS TO REDUCE FENTANYL OVERDOSES IN THE U. S. BECAUSE MANY OF HIS ACTIONS POINT AND A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

LET ME GIVE YOU THREE VERY CLEAR EXAMPLES.

ONE IS, HE RECENTLY PARDONED THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF HONDURAS WHO WAS ACCUSED OF TRAFFICKING DRUGS INTO THE U. S. SECOND, HE CUT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR PROGRAMS THAT FUND ADDICTION TREATMENT WITHIN THE U. S. , WHICH IS PRECISELY THE TYPE OF POLICIES WE NEED TO CONTROL FOR THIS PROBLEM.

AND THIRD, HE WANTS TO ROLL BACK SUPPORT FOR THE HOMELESS POPULATIONS WHICH, AS YOU KNOW , ARE CLOSELY LINKED UNFORTUNATELY TO SUBSTANCE ABUSE.

SO, YES, HE IS PRESSURING MEXICO TO DO NEW OPERATIONS AGAINST DRUG CARTELS BUT AS LONG AS THE U. S. DOES NOT DO THE PART THAT CORRESPONDS TO THE U. S. , THIS PROBLEM IS NOT GOING TO GET COMPLETELY TACKLED.

>> I THINK IT IS FAIR THAT YOU POINT OUT SOME OF THE CONTRADICTIONS IN THE PRESIDENT'S STATEMENTS AND POLICIES AND HIS OWN ACTIONS.

OF COURSE HE RAN ON ELIMINATING BUT NO IMPORTS INTO THE COUNTRY AND THAT HAS BEEN AT LEAST, UP UNTIL NOW, ONE OF HIS LEADING SUPPORTS POLICIES FROM HIS VOTERS , CLOSING THE BORDER AND STOPPING ILLEGAL DRUGS COMING IN TO THE U. S. THE TIMING OF THIS IS INTERESTING AS WELL, GIVEN THAT WE HAVE THE WORLD CUP GAMES IN JUST A FEW MONTHS TIME AND CRUCIAL SPRING BREAK PERIOD WHICH IS PIVOTAL FOR MEXICO'S TOURISM INDUSTRY .

>> YES.

THIS PUTS A LOT OF PRESSURE ON MEXICAN AUTHORITIES TO CONTROL THE VIOLENCE THAT MADE SURE THE CAPTURE OF "EL MENCHO" . "

BUT HERE, THE CRITICAL ISSUE FOR AMERICAN BORDERS AND FOR PEOPLE LISTENING TO US TODAY, IS TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER HOW MANY CARTELS MEXICO KILLS.

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOMEONE ELSE READY TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE BUSINESS OF SUPPLYING ILLEGAL DRUGS TO AMERICAN CONSUMERS, AS LONG AS THERE IS A DEMAND FOR THAT SUBSTANCE.

SO THE PROBLEM OF AMERICAN DRUG CONSUMPTION CANNOT BE SOLVED FROM ABROAD.

IT NEEDS TO BE SOLD FROM WITHIN .

>> RIGHT.

AND YOU MENTIONED JUST HOW MANY ILLEGAL WEAPONS HAVE BEEN SEIZED AS WELL .

AS YOU NOTED, 80% OF THEM HAVE A U. S. ORIGIN .

I ALSO BELIEVE THE SEGMENT BY NOTING, THAT YOU WROTE THAT THE REAL TEST IS NOT NECESSARILY THIS CAPTURE BUT WHETHER AUTHORITIES CAN CONTAIN THE VIOLENCE THAT WILL FOLLOW .

WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN SOME OF THAT VIOLENCE AND HOURS IMMEDIATELY AFTER HIS KILLING.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND EXPERTISE.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

> >> RETURNING TO OUR TOP STORY.

FORMER BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES, PETER MANDELSON, RESTED ON SUSPICIOUS OF MISCONDUCT IN PUBLIC OFFICE.

LET'S GO TO MAX FOSTER WHO HAS THE DETAILS IN LONDON.

WE SAW THE VIDEO OF THAT ARREST EARLIER TODAY , JUST A FEW MOMENTS AGO.

NOT NECESSARILY A SURPRISE FOLLOWING THE ARREST OF FORMER PRINCE ANDREW LAST WEEK.

AND NONETHELESS, A HUGE DEVELOPMENT HERE.

>> YES.

THE INVESTIGATION INTO PETER MANDELSON FEBRUARY 3rd.

THEY STARTED SEARCHING HIS HOMES INCLUDING THIS ONE IN NORTH LONDON AND HIS OTHER ONE IN WILTSHIRE AS WELL.

THEY CLEARLY COMPLETED THOSE SEARCHES AND FOUND EVIDENCE THAT THEY KNOW WHAT TO PRESENT TO HIM, TO THE POINT WHERE THEY ARE ABLE TO ARREST HIM AND FACT AND TAKEN AWAY FOR INTERVIEWING.

HE HAS NOT BEEN CHARGED AND DENIES ANY WRONGDOING.

THEY WILL BE QUESTIONING HIM TODAY AND THEY COULD RELEASE HIM AND REARREST HIM DEPENDING ON THE PROGRESS OF THE INTERVIEWS.

HE MAY DECIDE TO SAY NOTHING BUT THIS IS PART OF THE PROCESS THAT THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH .

BUT THERE IS CLEARLY ENOUGH HERE FOR THE METROPOLITAN POLICE TO TAKE THIS EXTREMELY SERIOUSLY .

THIS IS SENDING ALARM BELLS THROUGH WESTMINSTER BECAUSE THIS IS A CENTRAL FIGURE TO WESTMINSTER POLITICS FOR DECADES NOW.

HE HAS HAD A SENIOR POSITION IN GOVERNMENT AND THESE ALLEGATIONS ACTUALLY GO BACK TO HIS TIME AS A BUSINESS MINISTER AND IS A SENIOR GOVERNMENT MINISTER UNDER GORDON BROWN IN PARTICULAR, WHERE HE HAD PUBLIC OFFICE AND MISUSED THE PUBLIC OFFICE ALLEGEDLY TO SHARE GOVERNMENT SECRETS, MARKET SENSITIVE INFORMATION, WITH JEFFREY EPSTEIN .

LAST YEAR, HE WAS FIRED FROM HIS POSITION THEN AS U. S. AMBASSADOR BY THE PRIME MINISTER.

THEY HAD A MUCH DEEPER RELATIONSHIP WITH EPSTEIN THAT WENT ON MUCH LONGER THAN ANYONE KNEW.

HE EVEN DESCRIBED JEFFREY EPSTEIN AS HIS BEST FRIEND.

AND SO HE WAS FIRED AT THAT POINT AND THEN THAT HAS RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.

IT HAS REALLY DOGGED HIM.

>> YES.

THIS HAS GONE FROM PERHAPS QUESTIONING SOMEONE'S CHARACTER , JUDGMENT AND WHO THEY ASSOCIATE WITH, TO NOW SOME REAL POLITICAL HURDLES .

AND LEGAL HURDLES SPECIFICALLY FOR PETER MANDELSON AS HE IS BEING CHARGED WITH MISCONDUCT IN PUBLIC OFFICE AND THE HANDLING OF SENSITIVE INFORMATION.

AND JUST REMIND OUR VIEWERS THAT THE STATES BACK TO THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS BETWEEN 2008 AND 2010 AND WHAT HE IS ACCUSED OF SHARING WITH JEFFREY EPSTEIN .

>> THIS IS A TIME WHEN THE WORLD ECONOMY WAS TRYING TO REBUILD.

PARTICULARLY THE WESTERN ECONOMY.

AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF PLANS IN PLACE IN EUROPE AND THE UK TO TRY TO REBUILD THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM.

THERE WERE A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HOW TO DO THAT AND THE IT IS ALLEGED HE SHARED SOME OF THAT INFORMATION INFORMATION.

AND YOU CAN UNDERSTAND NOW WHY IT IS MARKET SENSITIVE.

WE DON'T KNOW THE SPECIFICS HERE.

FOR EXAMPLE, IF IT WAS UPON RELEASE OF WHAT WAS COMING LATER IN THE DAY.

AND THAT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING EPSTEIN WOULD BE ABLE TO TRADE ON.

THIS IS WHY IT IS SEEN AS SUCH AN AFFRONT THAT PETER MANDELSON WAS DOING AT THIS TIME BECAUSE HIS ROLE IS TO SERVE THE PUBLIC INTEREST AND IT WOULD HAVE UNDERMINED THE PUBLIC INTEREST IF IT WAS LEAKING, THAT CONFIDENTIAL MARKET INFORMATION.

AND SO IT IS A MASSIVE ALLEGATION AGAINST HIM .

AND IT WILL NO DOUBT RAISE THE PRESSURE ON THE PRIME MINISTER AGAIN BECAUSE HIS JUDGMENT HAS BEEN CALLED INTO QUESTION BECAUSE HE HIRED PETER MANDELSON KNOWING THAT HE HAD A FRIENDSHIP WITH EPSTEIN AND THEIR BIG QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER HE WENT THROUGH THE RIGHT VETTING PROCESS OR WHETHER HE GAVE PETER MANDELSON A QUICK PART IN THAT HIGH-PROFILE ROLE.

THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING INVESTIGATED BY PARLIAMENT.

WE WILL GET THE FIRST FINDINGS BY THAT IN MARCH.

I DON'T THINK THIS IS OUT OF THE WOODS YET.

AND THERE WILL BE OTHER PEOPLE INDICATED AS WELL.

AND IF WE FIND OUT THERE MORE PEOPLE THAT KNEW THINGS ABOUT PETER MANDELSON'S CONTENT AND CONDUCT AT THE TIME.

>> PETER MANDELSON HAS NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME YET.

HE HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF WRONGDOING.

HE HAS, FROM THE BEGINNING, CLAIMS THAT HE IS INNOCENT.

MAX FOSTER, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

APPRECIATE THE TIME.

> >> TO THE UNITED STATES WHERE PRESIDENT TRUMP IS STILL FUMING OVER THE SUPREME COURT DECISION FRIDAY THAT RULED HIS TARIFFS ARE ILLEGAL.

TODAY WRITING ON TRUTH SOCIAL THAT THE JUSTICES DID A GREAT JOB FOR THE WRONG PEOPLE.

TRUMP INSISTS HE WILL RAISE MOBILE TARIFFS TO 15% USING A DIFFERENT LAW.

MEANWHILE, THERE IS STILL MAJOR UNCERTAINTY OVER TARIFF REFUNDS.

THE ISSUE WAS SENT BACK TO THE LOWER COURTS.

NATASHA SARA IS AT YELL UNIVERSITY AND HAS BEEN THE EXPERT VOICE ON ALL THINGS TARIFF RELATED.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK ON THE PROGRAM.

AS WE HAVE SEEN WITH U. S. MARKETS TODAY, I THINK DOWN OVER A HUNDRED POINTS, THERE IS A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS IN TERMS OF STABILITY AND THE UNCERTAINTY QUESTION DOES LOOM LARGE.

YOU WROTE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP ALL ALONG HAD SAID THAT IF THE SUPREME COURT RULED AGAINST THESE TARIFFS QUOTE, IT WOULD LITERALLY DESTROY THE UNITED STATES.

YOU ARGUE THAT IS AN OVERSTATEMENT BECAUSE THE TARIFFS ONLY MAKE UP ABOUT 10% OF THE U. S. GDP.

SET THE TARIFFS ALONE ARE NOT SUCH AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT, WHY SUCH CONCERN ABOUT THE RESPONSE NOW, AND EVEN THIS MESS THEY HAVE CREATED WITH SO MUCH UNCERTAINTY?

>> I THINK THE TARIFFS ALONE ARE BAD AND DETRIMENTAL TO THE U. S. ECONOMY.

THE IDEA OF HAVING TARIFF RATES WE HAVE NOT SEEN IN THE LAST CENTURY BEING PURSUED ALONG THE LINES OF THE MOST INFLATIONARY POLICIES OF OUR LIFETIMES LIKELY TO TRANSLATE INTO 1500, $1800 OF PRICE INCREASES FROM THE AVERAGE AMERICAN FAMILY.

EVEN MORE THAN THE LEVEL OF TARIFFS, THE SORT OF VOLATILITY ASSOCIATED WITH THIS TRADE REGIME STRIKES ME AS REALLY PROBLEMATIC.

YOU HAVE SEEN THE TARIFF RATE CHANGE MORE THAN 60 TIMES THIS YEAR AND THE SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

THAT INCLUDES THREE TIMES SINCE THE SUPREME COURT RULED ON FRIDAY .

I THINK PART OF THE CHALLENGE AND PART OF WHAT YOU SEE MARKETS REACT TO IS THE FACT THAT WE ARE IN A BIT OF THIS TARIFF, NOW WE ARE USING DIFFERENT AUTHORITIES NOW THAT IT IS UNLAWFUL TO EFFECTUATE TARIFFS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME RATES THEY WERE BEFORE.

THE SUPREME COURT DECISION , THOSE AUTHORITIES WILL BE CHALLENGED.

THERE WILL BE ROUNDS OF LITIGATION ABOUT WHO GETS REFUNDS OR IF THERE ARE REFUNDS OR WHERE THE TARIFF RATES WILL LAND.

AND THAT MAKES IT HARD FOR BUSINESSES TO PLAN AND CONSUMERS TO PLAN.

ALSO DIFFICULT ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE WITH RESPECT TO NEGOTIATIONS AROUND WHAT TRADE POLICIES WILL BE BECAUSE AS YOU HEARD IT FROM EUROPE THIS WEEKEND, THE NATURE OF THE CHAOS COMING OUT OF THIS ADMINISTRATION MAKES IT VERY CHALLENGING TO TRY TO SEE HOW THE NEGOTIATIONS SHOULD TAKE PLACE .

>> IT IS INTERESTING THAT WE HAD JUST A SPIRIT WHO RULED WITH THE MAJORITY , AGREE WITH THE OTHER JUSTICES WHO, SOME RULED WITH THE MINORITY IN UPHOLDING THESE TARIFFS, SAYING THAT THIS WOULD CREATE A MESS NONETHELESS .

AND IF THESE REFUNDS THEN ULTIMATELY, AT SOME POINT, AFTER MONTHS OF NOT YEARS OF LITIGATION , DO GO TO CORPORATIONS, WHAT IS THE LIKELIHOOD THAT CONSUMERS WILL EVER SEE SOME OF THE MONEY BACK THAT THEY HAVE EVER HAD TO SPEND MORE OF ?

>> THE ETERNAL QUESTION.

WHERE'S MY TARIFF REFUND?

IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING AND ORAL ARGUMENT WHEN YOU HEARD JUSTICE AMY CONEY BARRETT, SAY, WON'T AFFECTIONATELY ULTIMATELY THESE REFUNDS CREATE A MESS.

AND THAT SENTIMENT OF CREATE A MESS WAS ECHOED BY JUSTICE KAVANAGH AND HIS DISSENT TO THE COURT'S DECISION FRIDAY.

THE SUPREME COURT WAS SILENT ON THE QUESTION OF, IF THERE WILL BE REFUNDS, LET ALONE HOW THE REFUNDS MIGHT ULTIMATELY TAKE PLACE AND ULTIMATELY, THIS WILL BE AN ISSUE THAT LOWER COURTS WILL DECIDE.

THE THING THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE AMERICAN CONSUMER IS SOMETHING BETWEEN ABOUT $140 BILLION OF TARIFFS THAT COME IN THROUGH AUTHORITIES THAT WERE DECLARED UNLAWFUL IN THE LAST YEAR.

SOMETHING BETWEEN 50-70% OF THOSE HAVE BEEN PASSED THROUGH TO CONSUMERS IN THE FORM OF HIGHER PRICES.

AND SO, EVEN IF WE DO ULTIMATELY REFUND THESE HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO THESE CORPORATIONS, THE QUESTION YOU ARE ASKING IS, TO WHAT EXTENT WILL IT ACTUALLY PASSED THROUGH TO CONSUMERS WHO ULTIMATELY HAVE BORNE THE BURDEN OF THIS TRADE POLICY.

I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF REASONS TO EXPECT CONSUMERS ARE NOT LIKELY TO SEE THOSE GAINS.

AND TO THE EXTENT THERE ARE REFUNDS, THE REFUNDS ARE LIKELY TO BE ABSORBED BY THE FIRMS THAT ARE RECEIVING THE PAYMENTS FROM THE GOVERNMENT .

>> AND WE HAVE HEARD THE GOVERNMENT SAY FROM THE MINUTE THE RULING CAME DOWN, THAT THEY HAVE A PLAN BE AND PLACE AND THERE ARE OTHER TARIFFS THAT THEY CAN ENACT AND THAT IS SECTION 122 , SECTION 301, 122.

THE PRESIDENT I THINK WENT FROM A BLANKET 10% TARIFF, TO A 15% TARIFF THAT CAN -- THAT HE CAN HOLD NOW FOR 150 DAYS.

AND WE WILL SEE WHETHER OR NOT CONGRESS KEEPS THOSE TARIFFS ULTIMATELY.

GIVEN THAT HE HAS HAD THESE OPTIONS, WHY DO YOU THINK HE ULTIMATELY DIDN'T JUST GO THERE FIRST LIKE HIS PREDECESSORS WOULD HAVE ?

>> SUCH A GOOD QUESTION.

BY THE WAY, THE TARIFF RATE CURRENTLY , MY COLLEAGUES HAVE ESTIMATED , WITH THE SECTION 122 TARIFFS AND PLACE ON THE 15% LEVEL, BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT DECISION ON FRIDAY, WE HAD AN EXPECTED TARIFF RATE OF ABOUT 16%.

NOW WE ARE BACK TO SOMETHING LIKE 13.

7%.

SO YOU ARE PRETTY CLOSE TO WHERE THE ADMINISTRATION STARTED WITH THIS [ INAUDIBLE ] AUTHORITY.

WHY I SUSPECT THEY DIDN'T GO TO ANY OF THESE AUTHORITIES FIRST --ONE IS, THESE AUTHORITIES WILL BE CHALLENGED AS WELL.

SECTION 122 IS ABOUT BALANCE PAYMENT DEFICITS.

IT IS HARD TO MAKE THE CASE.

IN FACT, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE SAID EXPLICITLY THAT THIS TYPE OF AUTHORITY REALLY DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN CLAIMING WITH RESPECT TO NATIONAL FEES THAT RESULTED IN THOSE IEPA TARIFFS.

THE OTHER PART IS ALL OF THESE OTHER S THAT THE PRESIDENT COULD CHOOSE TO DEPLOY, HAVE A LOT MORE PROCESS ASSOCIATED WITH THEM.

AS YOU POINT OUT, THEY ARE TERM LIMITED UNLESS CONGRESS AUTHORIZES.

OR THEY REQUIRE INVESTIGATIONS TO DEMONSTRATE THE IMPORTANCE OF WHY THESE TYPES OF TARIFFS ARE NECESSARY AND DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES IN DIFFERENT SECTORS WITH DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.

ALL OF THAT MAKES IT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO DICTATE BY PEN WITH THE TARIFF RATE SHOULD BE ON A PARTICULAR COUNTRY .

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEIR POLICY OR YOU DON'T LIKE A COMMERCIAL ON THEIR AIRWAVES.

AND I SUSPECT THAT IS GOING TO THROW SOME SAND IN THE GEARS WITH RESPECT TO THE ADMINISTRATION'S TRADE POLICY.

BUT AGAIN, I THINK WE'RE LIKELY TO SEE TARIFF SURROUNDED WITH US FOR QUITE SOME TIME WITH THE DEGREE OF VOLATILITY ON WHERE THE RATES WILL LAND.

>> THE PRESIDENT SAID THAT IS HIS FAVORITE WORD.

IMAGINE HE IS GOING TO DOUBLE DOWN ON THESE TARIFFS AND WE WILL HEAR MORE FROM HIM ON THE STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS TOMORROW.

BIGGER PICTURE, NATASHA.

WHEN COUNTRIES THAT HAVE NOW COME TO KNOW , AND THESE LEADERS HAVE KNOWN PRESIDENT TRUMP NOW FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS , THEY CLEARLY DID NOT WANT TO I R TO CAP HIM OR HAVE HIM DIRECT THEM -- ATTACKED THEM DIRECTLY IF THEY DID NOT LIKE THE ACTIONS .

THEY BALANCE THAT WITH HOW THEY WOULD HAVE EXPECTED THE SUPREME COURT TO ULTIMATELY RULE WORK MOSTLY , LEGAL EXPERTS EXPECTED THE SUPREME COURT WOULD STRIKE DOWN THESE TARIFFS.

NOW THESE COUNTRIES AND COMPANIES ARE PUT IN QUITE A POSITION , ARE THEY NOT?

DO THEY CONTINUE THEN TO TRY TO WIN OVER THE PRESIDENT AND STAY ON HIS GOOD SIDE ?

AND KEEP SOME OF THESE TARIFFS IN PLACE , WHERE THEY ARE?

OR DO THEY GO FIGHT THEM?

BECAUSE THEY ARE FACING PRESSURE AT HOME AS WELL ?

>> YES.

AND I THINK IT IS REALLY CHALLENGING.

IF YOU LOOK AT KIND OF THE INTERNATIONAL ALLIES AND ADVERSARIES WITH HIM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN NEGOTIATING ON THESE TRADE DIMENSIONS , I THINK SOMETHING REALLY HARD --IT WAS ALWAYS, AS YOU POINT OUT, NOT REALLY CLEAR WHAT TYPE OF LEGAL AUTHORITY WAS BEING DEPLOYED IN ORDER TO EFFECTUATE TARIFFS AT THE LEVELS WE HAVE NOT SEEN IN A CENTURY , BUT THEY ARE DEALING WITH AN ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS BEEN HIGHLY VOLATILE WITH RESPECT TO THESE NEGOTIATIONS .

AND I THINK SOMETHING I WORRY ABOUT REVERBERATING IN THE LONGER-TERM AND EVEN BEYOND ANY PARTICULAR PRESIDENT OR ANY PARTICULAR ADMINISTRATION, IS THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN, FOR QUITE SOME TIME, THE SAFE ASSET OF THE WORLD AND THE DOLLAR.

THE PLACE WHERE INVESTORS WANT TO INVEST BECAUSE OF THE STABILITY OF OUR REGIME.

AND THE BELIEF THAT WHEN PROMISES ARE MADE, PROMISES WILL BE CAPPED WITH RESPECT TO OUR INTERNATIONAL PARTNERS.

AND SOMETHING THAT HAS HAPPENED OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST 13 MONTHS IS THAT YOU HAVE SEEN A LOT OF THOSE NORMS WITH RESPECT TO OUR ROLE ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE , REALLY START TO WEAR DOWN .

AND SOME OF THAT FABRIC OF WHAT MAKES THIS COUNTRY AND THIS UNIQUE POSTURE RELISH WITH RESPECT TO OUR ALLIES AND KIND OF AT THE CENTER OF THE GEOPOLITICAL NEGOTIATING SPACE , SOME OF THAT HAS STARTED TO FRACTURE.

AND I THINK YOU STARTED TO HEAR MARK KEARNEY SAY THAT AT A SPEECH AT DOUBLES.

AND I WORRY THOSE KINDS OF CONSEQUENCES AND THAT FRACTURING ARE LIKELY TO REVERBERATE FOR MANY MONTHS AND MANY YEARS, PAST ANY PARTICULAR EFFECTIVE TARIFF RATE THAT WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY .

>> A LASTING IMPACT, SOME OF THE PRESIDENT'S POLICIES COULD BE HERE LINGERING FOR MANY YEARS TO COME.

NATASHA, THANK YOU FOR EXPANDING THAT TO US.

WE APPRECIATE IT .

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME .

>> NOW, WILL HE OR WON'T HE?

OR IS IT WHEN, NOT IF?

SPECULATION ABOUT WHETHER PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL STRIKE THE IRAN AND CONTINUE THE PACE OVER THE WEEKEND.

HERE IS SPECIAL ENVOY STEVE WITKOFF ON THE PRESIDENT'S CURRENT THINKING ON IRAN.

>> I DON'T WANT TO USE THE WORD FRUSTRATED.

HE UNDERSTANDS HE HAS PLENTY OF ALTERNATIVES.

BUT IT IS CURIOUS .

HE IS CURIOUS AS TO WHY THEY HAVEN'T -- I DON'T WANT TO USE THE WORD CAPITULATED, BUT WHY THEY HAVEN'T CAPITULATED.

>> THE U. S. NOW HAS ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF NAVAL ASSETS IN THE REGION.

MEANWHILE, INSIDE IRAN, THERE WERE ANTI-REGIME PROTESTS OVER THE WEEKEND , SOME OF THE FIRST SINCE A BRUTAL CRACKDOWN THAT KILLED THOUSANDS LAST MONTH.

LET'S BRING IN FORMER STATE TO PERMIT OFFICIAL AND IRAN EXPERT , VALI MASTER.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

IRANIAN OFFICIALS AS WELL AS MANY U. S. CURRENT AND FORMER OFFICIALS ON OR OFF THE RECORD, WILL SAY THEY EXPECT SOME SORT OF STRIKE OR KINETIC ACTION FROM THE UNITED STATES IN THE NEXT WEEK OR FEW DAYS OR SO.

AND YET , NEW TALKS ARE SET AGAIN IN GENEVA FOR LATER THIS WEEK OVER IRAN'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM .

IF CONFRONTATION SEEMS INEVITABLE , WHY GO THROUGH THE MOTIONS OF TALKS ?

>> FIRST OF ALL, I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP REALLY DOESN'T WANT TO STRIKE IRAN BECAUSE HE UNDERSTANDS THAT THERE ARE RISKS THAT THIS WILL NOT BE SIMPLE.

IT WILL NOT BE LIKE VENEZUELA OR THE ATTACK ON IRAN IN JUNE.

ONE STRIKE AND OUT AND GET WHAT YOU WANT.

THAT THIS COULD BECOME A MUCH LARGER WAR AND HE WANTS TO AVOID THAT.

SO HE IS STILL HOPING , AS STEVE WITKOFF SAID, AND YOU JUST SHOWED IT COME THAT SOMEHOW THE IRANIANS WILL CAPITULATE.

FROM IRAN'S SIDE, THEY ARE PREPARING FOR WAR.

THEY ARE EXPECTING WAR.

BUT THEY ARE GOING TO, NEVERTHELESS, TEST THE WATERS AND SEE WHETHER THERE IS ANY POSSIBILITY AT ALL TO HAVE A DIPLOMATIC BREAKTHROUGH.

I THINK THE WAY STEVE WITKOFF PUT IT, THAT THE UNITED STATES IS THREATENING WAR, PREPARING FOR WAR, AND EXPECTING IRAN TO CAPITULATE IS NOT GOING TO WORK.

BECAUSE IRAN IS NOT LOOKING TO SURRENDER .

AND PRESIDENT TRUMP'S A, IF IT IS JUST TO GET IRAN TO SURRENDER, I THINK WE WILL SEE WAR.

>> AND YOU ARGUE THAT SAMITI TO U. S. TERMS IS SEEN IN IRAN AND WITH THE AYATOLLAH THERE, AS MORE DANGEROUS FOR THE REGIME AT THIS POINT TO THEN SUFFERING A STRIKE AT THE HANDS OF THE UNITED STATES.

IS THERE A SCENARIO WHERE YOU THINK THAT CHANGES WHERE THE REGIME BEGINS TO PRIORITIZE ITS OWN ECONOMY AND THE WELFARE OF ITS PEOPLE?

I WOULD IMAGINE, NO, GIVEN THE PREVIOUS ACTIONS.

BUT IT IS JUST STRIKING THAT THEY WOULD ACCEPT THAT PERHAPS A STRIKE IS IMMINENT .

>> I THINK THEY HAVE ALWAYS PRIORITIZED IMPROVING THE ECONOMY AND THE WELFARE OF THEIR PEOPLE.

THAT IS WHY THEY SIGNED A NEW DEAL IN 2015.

EXPECTATION THAT BY EATING WHAT WAS GIVING UP WHAT THEY DID, THERE WOULD BE SOME DEGREE OF SANCTIONS RELIEF.

I THINK THE FACT THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WALKED AWAY FROM THAT DEAL AND IS RIGHT NOW NOT OFFERING THEM ANYTHING SOLID, LEADS THEM TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO DIPLOMATIC BREAKTHROUGH.

THAT EVEN IF THEY SIGNED A DEAL, THERE WOULD BE NO IMPROVEMENT IN IRAN'S ECONOMIC POSITION.

THAT WHAT THE UNITED STATES IS AFTER IS NOT A NUCLEAR DEAL BUT A REGIME CHANGE.

AND IF THAT ENDS THAT BEING THE CONCLUSION, THEN THERE IS NO MOTIVATION TO GO TO THE TABLE .

WE ARE ASSUMING THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WOULD ACTUALLY LIFT SANCTIONS , THAT THE UNITED STATES LIPS SANCTIONS.

BUT I THINK THE IRANIANS HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

WHETHER THEY SIGN A DEAL OR DON'T SIGN A DEAL, THERE WON'T BE ANY CHANGE IN U. S. PRESSURE ON IRAN .

AND AS A RESULT, THEY CALCULATE THAT THEY WILL END UP IN A WAR REGARDLESS.

THEY MIGHT AS WELL DO IT SOONER RATHER THAN LATER .

>> YES.

AND THERE HAD BEEN THIS BACK- AND-FORTH AND EXACTLY WHAT THE UNITED STATES WAS DEMANDING.

U. S. OFFICIALS WERE SAYING ZERO ENRICHMENT AND IRANIAN OFFICIALS WERE SAYING THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY AGREED TO BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES.

IN THE MEANTIME, THERE HAS BEEN REPORTING SUGGESTING THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN SIDELINED AND THERE IS A NEW CENTER OF POWER.

IN YOUR VIEW, HAVE THEY ABANDONED EVEN THE OPTICS OF A POLITICALLY ELECTED LEADER AND NOW TURNED TO FULL SECURITY STATE MODE FOR THE COUNTRY?

>> THE ELECTED LEADER IS ALWAYS IN CHARGE OF RUNNING THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT .

FOREIGN POLICY AND PARTICULARLY NUCLEAR SECURITY ISSUES WERE ALWAYS IN THE HANDS OF THE SUPREME LEADER ULTIMATELY.

STILL IRAN'S FOREIGN MINISTER IS THE MAIN CONDUIT WITH THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

HE IS THE ONE THAT WILL BE MEETING WITH STEVE WITKOFF AND JARED KUSHNER ON THURSDAY.

I THINK WHAT HAPPENED IS THE SUPREME LEADER IS PREPARING FOR A MAJOR WAR.

IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF OPTICS.

IT IS A QUESTION OF ORGANIZING THE STATE AND FOR MANAGING THE WAR.

AND HIS NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR HAS BEEN GIVEN A MUCH GREATER PURVIEW FOR BASICALLY ORGANIZING BETWEEN THE MILITARY AND FOREIGN POLICY AND DOMESTIC POLITICS AND THE VARIOUS ORGANS OF STATE, PARLIAMENT AND JUDICIARY, IN ORDER TO PREPARE THE COUNTRY FOR MANAGING THE WAR.

THE PRESIDENT IS STILL THERE.

BUT I THINK HE WAS NEVER IN CHARGE OF THIS KIND OF A MANAGEMENT .

AND I THINK PREVIOUSLY, WE DIDN'T HAVE A PARTICULAR FIGURE THAT ACTUALLY STOOD OUT AS THIS KIND OF MANAGEMENT.

NOW HE HAS COME TO THE FLOOR MUCH MORE AS THE PERSON THE SUPREME LEADER HAS PUT IN CHARGE OF MANAGING IRAN IN THIS TIME PERIOD .

>> THIS ALL COMES AS WE NOTED IN THE INTRO THERE THAT WE AGAIN SAW STUDENTS FOR THE MOST PART.

UNIVERSITY STUDENTS TAKE TO THE STREETS IN IRAN OVER THE WEEKEND.

SHARIF UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY AND THE UNIVERSITY OF TEHRAN.

MANY OF THEM WERE RAISING THE PRE-1979 REVOLUTION FLAG.

IS THIS A GENUINE PUSH, IN YOUR VIEW, FOR THE MONARCHY?

OR IS THIS A CRY FOR ANYTHING BUT WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE ?

>> FIRST OF ALL, NOT ALL STUDENTS DID.

THEY WERE ALSO SLOGANS THAT SAID THEY DON'T WANT A MONARCH OR A KING OR ANY FORM OF DICTATORSHIP.

SOME DID CALL FOR THE SON.

BUT LARGELY WHAT WE ARE SEEING AN IRAN IS PROTESTS AGAINST THE REGIME.

I THINK IT IS MUCH LESS CONVERGENCE OF CONSENSUS ABOUT WHAT REPLACES IT THAN DEEP FRUSTRATION OF VARIOUS SECTORS OF IRAN.

NOT JUST THE STUDENTS.

NOT ONLY THE ISLAM OF REPUBLIC AND ITS RECORD IN OFFICE BUT THE STATE OF THE COUNTRY.

THIS KIND OF DESPONDENCY AND ANGER THAT HAS SET IN IRAN AND LIKELY IS TO MANIFEST ITSELF MORE AND MORE WITH PROTESTS.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW THIS WILL PLAY OUT IN WAR.

BUT I THINK WHAT IRAN IS LACKING IS ACTUALLY AN ORGANIZED OPPOSITION ON THE GROUND, IN THE COUNTRY THAT ACTUALLY CAN RALLY ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT VOICES INTO A SINGLE POLITICAL MOVEMENT WITHIN THE COUNTRY .

>> HAVE ANY OF THOSE POTENTIAL OPPOSITION LEADERS , ARE THEY CURRENTLY IN THE COUNTRY UNDER ARREST ?

>> A LOT ARE.

FIRST OF ALL, THERE ARE CIVIL SOCIETY ORGANIZATIONS.

MANY OF THEM WERE VERY ACTIVE IN THE WOMEN LIFE FREEDOM MOVEMENT A FEW YEARS AGO .

THERE ARE MANY WHO ARE CIVIL SOCIETY AND POLITICAL LEADERS THAT ARE IN JAIL.

SOME OF THEM VERY PROMINENT .

EXACTLY BECAUSE OF THE DEGREE OF PRESSURE IN IRAN, IT IS NOT -- A POLITICAL MOVEMENT AND CREATING THE GROUND GAME NECESSARY TO PREVENT AND PRESENT AN ALTERNATIVE THAT COULD TAKE OVER THE ISLAM ACCOR PUBLIC SAY, WHEN IT FALTERS.

THAT DOES NOT EXIST IN IRAN RIGHT NOW .

>> YES.

IT IS HARD TO RECONCILE WITH THE PRESIDENT INITIALLY SAID AFTER THOUSANDS OF PROTESTERS HAD BEEN KILLED .

THAT HELP WAS ON ITS WAY.

AND NOW THE PROTESTS WE SAW OVER THE WEEKEND , THAT THE ANSWER WOULD BE A BETTER NUCLEAR DEAL.

THAT THAT IS ULTIMATELY WHAT IS BRINGING THEM TO THE STREETS.

I DON'T SEE FROM ALL THE REPORTING WE CONDUCTED AND WE HAVE BEEN READING , THAT IS NOT THEIR NUMBER ONE DEMAND.

WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE FOLLOWING ALL OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS .

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

WE APPRECIATE IT .

> >> NOW TO THE WORLD OF MUSIC.

AFTER NEARLY 40 YEARS, THE LEGENDARY JAZZ MUSICIAN WYNTON MARSALIS IS STEPPING DOWN AS MANAGER AND ARTISTIC DIRECTOR.

THE WORLD-RENOWNED TRUMP OR AND COMPOSER HELPED FOUND THE NEW YORK INSTITUTION IN THE 80S WITH THE MISSION TO BUILD A MORE CONSCIOUS, ELABORATIVE AND CREATIVE WORLD THROUGH THE WORLD OF JAZZ.

MARSALIS SITS DOWN WITH WALTER ISAACSON TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HE BELIEVES JAZZ IS THE PERFECT MEDIC FOR TO BUREAUCRACY AND DEMOCRACY.

>> WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU, WALTER.

>> YOU JUST ANNOUNCED AFTER 40 YEARS, YOU WILL BE STEPPING DOWN FROM JAZZ AT LINCOLN CENTER.

TAKE US BACK THEN.

I THINK YOU WERE ABOUT 25 YEARS OLD.

YOU HAD BEEN RECORDING WITH YOUR OWN QUARTET.

I THINK YOU DID LIVE AT BLUES ALLEY.

WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THEY GOT YOU THE PHONE CALL?

>> THE THINKING IS THAT IT CAME FROM SOMEONE FROM VISITOR SERVICES OF LINCOLN CENTER, COULD WE DO A SUMMER SERIES OF THREE CONCERTS ?

WOULD I DO IT FOR NO MONEY?

AND CAN I CALL MUSICIANS?

I THOUGHT, GREAT.

WE WILL DO THREE CONCERTS.

WE DID THE FIRST THREE CONCERTS.

AND I DIDN'T REALLY THINK ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT WAS THE YEAR I PROBABLY DID 200 OR SOMETHING CONCERTS THAT YEAR .

BUT I WAS WORKING WITH LENA BLOOM GARDEN AND DOROTHY KURT WHO WAS IT WBGO AND BETTY CARTER WHO WAS OF COURSE THE GREAT GENIUS OF OUR MUSIC , SINGER AND TEACHER.

AT THAT TIME, I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT WAS THREE LADIES.

THEY WERE MUCH OLDER THAN ME .

BUT THEY HAD A VISION FOR THE COMMUNITY.

THE NEXT YEAR, WE DID THREE MORE CONCERTS.

ONE OF THEM WAS A DUKE ELLINGTON CONCERT.

THE DUKE ELLINGTON CONCERT GOT REALLY BAD REVIEWS .

AND WHEN I SAW THAT THOSE CONCERTS GOT REALLY BAD REVIEWS, I THOUGHT NEXT YEAR, WE NEED TO DO TWO OF THEM.

WE DID TWO THE NEXT YEAR BECAUSE THE CRITIQUE IS THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING THE MUSIC.

THAT IS WHAT GALVANIZED MY UNDERSTANDING .

IT MADE ME REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS FOR US TO BUILD THIS AS AN INSTITUTION.

AND THEN SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS.

SO MANY PEOPLE FROM THE COMMUNITY CAME TO HELP US BUILD JAZZ AT LINCOLN CENTER.

>> SO RESISTING DUKE ELLINGTON.

SO YOU DOUBLED DOWN ON DUKE ELLINGTON.

YOU ARE A BIG DUKE ELLINGTON FAN.

HOW IMPORTANT IS DUKE ELLINGTON AND THE UNDERSTANDING OF HIM?

>> DUKE IS THE GREATEST COMPOSER OF THE 20TH CENTURY.

COVERED MORE MUSIC.

RECORDED 800 ALBUMS.

OVER 2000 COMPOSITIONS.

PLAYED EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD AND REPRESENTED AS WELL AS ANYONE COULD REPRESENT THE DIVERSITY OF THE NATION CREATED AND ADORNED BY A MUSIC GENIUS ON SO MANY LEVELS.

INNOVATIVE AND SO MANY THINGS.

BLUES AND HARMONY.

HOW THEY USE THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF A GROUP.

I COULD GO ON AND ON ABOUT HIM.

BUT THE WHOLE THRUST OF JAZZ, AND A GENERATION WE DID NOT PLAY BIG BANNED MUSIC.

WE LARGELY PLAYED IN SMALL BANDS.

I DID NOT WANT TO PLAY IN A BIG BAND.

I CALLED DIZZY GILLESPIE AND ASKED HIM, SHOULD I DO THIS?

HE TOLD ME, ONE SHOULD NEVER CONSIDER IT IN ACHIEVEMENT TO LOSE ONE'S ANCESTRAL HERITAGE.

SO I TOOK IT THAT WE NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY THIS MUSIC.

WE CALLED SURVIVING MEMBERS OF DUKE ELLINGTON'S GREAT 1955, UNTIL 1974 BAND AND MEMBERS OF THE JONES LEWIS ORCHESTRA PLAYING AT THE VILLAGE GUARD.

WE HAD MEMBERS IN THEIR 60s AND 70s AND MEMBERS IN THE 40s AND 50s.

AND WE WERE IN OUR 20s AND 30s.

THAT IS HOW WE WENT ABOUT LEARNING HOW TO PLAY THE MUSIC.

>> SO WHEN YOU COME THERE, THERE IS THIS KINETIC CALLED, I THINK IT IS A LINCOLN CENTER COMMITTEE FOR THE FUTURE.

WHAT THEY DECIDED, RIGHT BEFORE YOU HAVE COME, IS WE DON'T NEED SPECIAL THINGS FOR JAZZ.

JAZZ DOES NOT HAVE A REAL PLAY ACT.

>> BUT THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF THE LINCOLN CENTER, AT THAT TIME, IN OUR TIME, HE WAS A SUBMARINE COMMANDER IN WORLD WAR II .

AND HE TOLD ME LOOK , MAN, I USED TO TAKE EVERY FURLOUGH.

EVERY TIME I GOT OFF, I WOULD GO SEE CHARLIE PARKER.

THIS WILL GET IN.

SO HE LOVED BIRD.

AND IRENE DIAMOND WAS ONE OF OUR BIGGEST DONORS.

SHE HAD BEEN IN HOLLYWOOD.

SHE UNDERSTOOD HOW THESE SYSTEMS WORK AND THE INJUSTICE OF THINGS.

BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN WHOSE WORK WAS STOLEN AND SHE HAD TO DEAL WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT CHALLENGES.

SHE WAS INTERVIEWED INTO A LOT OF PEOPLE AND SAID, THIS WILL GET IN .

SO WE HAD GOOD PEOPLE AND WE HAD SUPPORTERS AND GORDON DAVIS AND THE LEADERSHIP WE HAD AND STILL HAVE , THEY WORKED AROUND-THE-CLOCK.

AND WE GOT IN.

>> HOW IMPORTANT WAS IT TO RISA WRECKED IN SOME WAYS, JAZZ AT A TIME WHEN ALL SORTS OF NEW MUSIC IS COMING ALONG AND YOU WERE KIND OF A RESISTOR TO THAT NEW --NEW MUSIC.

SOME OF THE HIP-HOP.

>> IT WASN'T JUST TO POP.

WHOLE EMPHASIS OF ROCK 'N' ROLL AS A NATIONAL IDENTITY.

YOU TAKE THE WHOLE ROCK 'N' ROLL THOUGHT OF REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE AND KIDS VERSUS PARENTS AND ALL THE KIND OF STUFF INTRODUCED INTO THE CULTURE THAT WAS GOOD MAYBE FOR 10 YEARS BUT NOT OF 50 OR 60 YEAR VISION, AS WE HAVE COME TO SEE NOW.

ALL OF THESE KINDS IDEAS.

HIP-HOP BECAME PART OF THAT.

MY INITIAL FOCUS WAS NOT HIP-HOP .

IT WAS, WHAT THE ROCK 'N' ROLL MENTALITY REPRESENTED .

ONCE AGAIN, NOT THE MUSICIANS.

THE MUSICIANS ARE NOT THE ONES WHO ARE MYTHOLOGIZING IN THIS WAY.

THE MARKETPLACE IS DEMANDING THAT.

YOU COULD GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF JAZZ AND UNDERSTAND THAT THE PRESSURE BENNY GOODMAN GOT WHEN HE WAS TRAINED TO DEAL WITH AND A GRATING THE AMERICAN PUBLIC SPACE IN THE 1930s.

IT WAS NOT FROM MUSICIANS.

IT WAS FROM THE SYSTEM THAT WANTED TO STAY SEGREGATED.

IN MY TIME, WE HAD THAT OF COURSE WITH THE CONTEMPORARY JAZZ .

IRONICALLY, THEY INVENTED A WARFARE BETWEEN US AND SOME DOWNTOWN MUSICIANS.

WHITE AND BLACK.

IT WAS STUPID AND CRAZY AND NOT GROUND IN ANY FACT.

BY A LARGE, WE RECEIVED UNBELIEVABLE SUPPORT FROM PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF THE COMMUNITY.

GET THIS IN HERE.

DEAL WITH OUR TRADITION.

PLAY OUR MUSIC.

DEVELOP AND BUILD THE LIBRARY.

THE ONE THING THAT SHOCKED ME IS HOW MUCH SUPPORT WE GOT FROM PEOPLE ALL OVER THE COMMUNITY WHO WERE NOT NECESSARILY INVOLVED IN JAZZ .

>> USACE SUPPORT OUR TRADITIONS.

SOMETIMES, WHETHER IT IS PRESERVATION HALL IN NEW ORLEANS OR JAZZ AT LINCOLN CENTER OR WHATEVER YOU HAVE, THAT TENSION BETWEEN PRESERVING THE TRADITIONS AND MAKING SURE THEY ARE NOT IN AMBER AND CAN'T MOVE .

WHAT DID YOU DO ABOUT THAT?

>> WE NEVER HAD THAT PROBLEM BECAUSE WE IMPROVISED.

ALWAYS WRITING NEW MUSIC.

IN THE LAST 14 YEARS, AND ALABAMA LONG, WE HAVE ADDED 1200 NEW ARRANGEMENTS TO OUR LIBRARY.

FOR ME AND SHERMAN AND ALL OF US WHO WORK ON MUSIC, WE COME UP WITH NEW STUFF ALL THE TIME.

I NEVER WORRIED ABOUT THAT BECAUSE MY VISION FOR THE MUSIC WAS ALWAYS IMPROVISATION WHICH MEANS NO MATTER WHAT YOU ARE PLAYING, YOU ARE ADDING TO IT.

THERE WAS NEVER THE IDEAS LIKE WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH THIS OR WRITE THIS MUSIC.

WE DID SO MUCH NEW MUSIC AND SO MANY COLLABORATIONS AND WROTE SO MANY BALLETS AND MUSICIANS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD AND NEW THINGS THAT HAD NEVER BEEN HEARD.

THAT WAS NOT OUR PROBLEM.

OUR PROBLEM OUR PROBLEM WAS FORCING THE EXPERTS IN OUR COUNTRY AND THE SO-CALLED INTELLECTUALS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WAS A SOURCE OF AMERICAN GREATNESS THAT CAME FROM QUARTERS THEY WERE AGAINST WHICH WAS PART OF THE BASIC COST OF RACISM IN OUR COUNTRY.

>> YOU TALK JUST NOW ABOUT RACE AND RESISTANCE TO JAZZ AND HOW IMPORTANT WAS THAT IN SHAPING WHAT JAZZ BECAME ?

>> THE OPPOSITION IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU STRONGER.

BUT IF YOU LET THE OPPOSITION --OPPOSITION ALSO IS INTELLIGENT.

IT IS NOT JUST FIGHTING YOU ON THE SAME QUARTER.

I COME TO NEW YORK AND I FIGURE ON GETTING OUT OF THE RACISM OF NEW ORLEANS.

IN THE SOUTH.

AND YOU HAVE PEOPLE APPEAR NOT IN YOUR SYSTEM OF SEGREGATION AND THEY ARE WORSE THAN THE PEOPLE IN THE SOUTH .

WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO WRITE IN THE WAY THEY ARE GOING TO UNDERMINE THE GREATNESS OF THEIR CAUSE .

BUT YOU ALSO ARE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE OF ALL RACES AND OF ALL WALKS.

EVERY BACKGROUND, COME TOGETHER TO SUPPORT THIS ART FORM AND CREATE SOMETHING GREAT AND THAT WILL NOT BE MYTHOLOGIZED THE WAY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

SO IT IS OUR JOB TO CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT WE DID AND WE WERE ALL TOGETHER.

NOT JUST BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT JUST WHITE PEOPLE.

WE WERE ALL WORKING ON IT AND CONTINUE TO WORK ON IT .

>> THERE HAS BEEN A PUSHBACK IN THE PAST 10 YEARS AGAINST THE IDEA THAT DIVERSITY IS OUR STRENGTH AND THAT IS WHERE OUR CREATIVITY COMES FROM.

IS JAZZ REPUTATION OF THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT IS LIKE CAUSES SO MUCH PROBLEMS.

FOOLISHNESS IS ALWAYS SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO FIGHT AGAINST.

>> GROWING UP IN NEW ORLEANS AS YOU DID, BIG FAMILY, MUSICAL FAMILY, THERE WERE A LOT OF INFLUENCERS THAT FLOWED TOGETHER THERE FROM THE FRENCH UPPER HOUSE TO CONGO SQUARE.

TELL ME HOW THOSE FLOWED TOGETHER TO CREATE JAZZ AND YOUR MUSIC .

>> IN MY GENERATION, A LOT OF THOSE TRADITIONS HAD BEEN LOST.

BUT BECAUSE OF MY FATHER WAS SUCH A GREAT EDUCATOR AND ALWAYS AN ADVOCATE OF DOING THINGS AND BEING PLACES, I WAS ABLE TO PLAY IN DANNY BARKER'S BAND THAT PLAYED TRADITIONAL MUSIC.

I HAD A BAND DIRECTOR THAT WAS ARMENIAN AMERICAN.

HE PLAYED IN A AND OF, BAND DIRECTORS ON TUESDAY NIGHT.

WE WERE REHEARSING AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW ORLEANS.

THEY PLAYED JOHN PHILLIPS.

BECAUSE OF HIM, I WOULD GO DO THAT.

I PLAYED THE SONGS.

THE TYPE OF INFLUENCERS IN THE MUSIC LARGELY.

WE PLAYED FUNK IN NEW ORLEANS, POPULAR MUSIC.

BUT WE KNEW AND LEARNED A LOT OF DIFFERENT MUSIC.

FRENCH SONGS THAT MY GREAT UNCLE WOULD SING.

MISSISSIPPI RIVER SONGS.

CHURCH MUSIC OF ALL KINDS.

JACKSON IS FROM NEW ORLEANS.

THE SOIL STILL PRODUCED A WIDE BODY OF MUSIC OF ALL KINDS.

AND WE WERE FRENCH AND WE WERE SPANISH.

AND WE HAD CARIBBEAN INFLUENCE.

IF YOU WERE IN MY TIME, 60s AND 70s, EARLY 80S, YOU WOULD HAVE HAD A LOT OF INFLUENCES JUST BEING THERE.

AND I WAS FORTUNATE TO RECEIVE A LOT OF THAT INFORMATION.

>> I DO REMEMBER THE STORY OF WHEN YOU GO OUT TO JULLIARD AND YOU ARE LOOKING DOWN ON LOUIS ARMSTRONG AND THE LIGHT.

AND YOUR DADDY, THE GREAT ELLIS MARSALIS, HAS THAT RIGHT.

>> YES.

WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR HISTORY.

EVEN IF YOU ARE TAUGHT IT.

I FATHER TAUGHT AMERICAN HISTORY.

IT WASN'T LIKE I WASN'T IN THE CLASSES WITH THE COLLEGE STUDENT HEARING WHAT HE WAS SAYING.

WHEN YOU VOLUNTEER YOUR GENERATION, YOU HAVE TO OVERCOME YOUR GENERATIONAL IGNORANCE.

GENERATIONS WILL THINK THINGS --WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE OF IT?

MY FATHER WAS LIKE, LEARN ONE OF THE SOLOS.

HE CHALLENGED ME TO LEARN A SO I NEVER LEARNED.

I SAID, THIS IS ALL HANDKERCHIEF HEAD MUSIC.

AND FROM THE 60s AND 70s.

WE HAVE AFRO BLACK POWER.

WE HAVE LOUIS ARMSTRONG SINGING.

WE DID NOT RESPECT THAT ASPECT OF HIS PERSONALITY.

WHEN I WENT TO LEARN THE SOLO, IT WAS ON A SONG CALLED JUBILEE FROM THE 1930s.

I COULDN'T MAKE IT THROUGH THE SOLO BECAUSE OF HIS ENDURANCE AND ABILITY .

AND KEEP IN MIND, THESE RECORDINGS WERE LESS THAN THREE MINUTES.

IT WAS LIKE TWO MINUTES, 20 SECONDS OF PLAYING STRAIGHT.

FROM A MUSICIAN STANDPOINT, I SAID, I GOT TO LISTEN TO POPS AND UNDERSTAND WHO HE WAS .

>> YOU LEARNED A LOT ABOUT IMPROVISATION WHEN YOU ARE DOING JAZZ.

YOU SAY THAT IS THE CORE OF HOW YOU MADE THINGS WORK .

HOW DID YOU APPLY THAT TO ACTUALLY BEING AN EXECUTIVE WHO HAD TO LEAD JAZZ AT LINCOLN CENTER ?

>> THE MAIN THING AT JAZZ IS YOU HAVE TO HAVE --EVERY MEMBER MUST UNDERSTAND THE OVERALL FORM.

IF YOU JUST TAKE AN ORGANIZATION WITH A BUDGET , WHATEVER YOUR DIVISION IS, YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND YOUR PERCENTAGE OF THE BUDGET AND HOW IT OVERALL WORKS .

WHAT ARE THE PROCEDURES IN YOUR PROCESSES AND THE FONT YOU USE ON THINGS.

WHAT DO YOU REPEAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND JUST?

IT IS NOT REPETITION.

WHAT YOU REPEAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS HOW YOU TRAIN YOURSELF .

AND THE MAIN THING IN JAZZ IS LISTENING.

WE SPEND MOST OF OUR NIGHTS LISTENING AND TRUSTING.

THE FUNDAMENTAL -- IT IS JUST A UNIT --A NUMERIC ACCURACY OF MUSIC.

SO THE ACCURACY JAZZ DEMANDS , IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE ON A CERTAIN LEVEL, CAN BE APPLIED TO BUSINESS AND THE TYPE OF NUMERIC RIGOR THAT IS REQUIRED TO FUNCTION AS A TEAM .

>> ONE OF THE LEADERSHIP LESSONS I SORT OF TAKE FROM YOU IS I WATCHED YOU PLAY WITH YOUR ORCHESTRA LOT.

I WATCHED YOU BUT YOU LEAD.

YOU LEAD FROM BEHIND.

YOU ALWAYS STAND BEHIND THE ORCHESTRA.

>> THAT IS DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP.

IS LIKE A FLOCK OF GEESE.

THEY MAKE THE CALLS FROM THE BACK.

IF YOU REALLY ARE LEADING , EVERYBODY IS LEADING.

WITH OUR ORCHESTRA, MY JOB IS WE HAVE 15 SO LISTS.

EVERY NIGHT, I HAVE TO PROGRAM THE CONCERT SO THAT ALL 15 PEOPLE PLAY AT LEAST ONE TIME.

THAT IS A CHALLENGE WITH 10 SONGS .

I KNEW THE ORCHESTRA WAS GOING TO REALLY BE GREAT WHEN OUR TROMBONE, CHRIS CRENSHAW, WHO SITS IN FRONT OF ME, HE LOOKED AT ME FOR THE LAST TWO SONGS AND STARTED TO TELL ME WHO HADN'T PLAYED.

I SAID , OKAY.

AND WE ALL STARTED TO LOOK OFF OF EACH OTHER.

THIS PERSON HAS NOT PLAYED.

AND WE START TO NEGOTIATE THE SONGS SO THAT WE ALL MAKE SURE EVERYONE PLAYS .

>> ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO, I WENT AND SAW IT.

YOU DID DEMOCRACY SUITE AT LINCOLN CENTER.

AND YOU SAID, JAZZ MUSIC IS THE PERFECT METAPHOR FOR DEMOCRACY .

TELL ME WHAT YOU ARE FEELING ABOUT DEMOCRACY NOW AND WHAT JAZZ MEANS, TO TEACH IT.

>> FIRST, TO COME INTO ALIGNMENT WITH OUR AMERICAN MYTHOLOGY , WE ARE FAR AWAY FROM IT.

WE CAN MAKE ALL THE MOVIES WE WANT TO MAKE MAKING HEROES INTO ONE PERSON WITH INTEGRITY.

THE LEVEL OF CORRUPTION WE ARE SEEING NOW, WE WERE ALWAYS ON THE WAY TOWARD IT.

I'M A NONPARTISAN ATTACKER OF THE CORRUPTION I SEE.

I HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR 40 YEARS .

WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IN THE PUBLIC SPACE NOW IS THE TYPE OF ARROGANCE AND CRIMINAL ACTIVITY THAT WE ARE ALWAYS WORKING OUR WAY TOWARDS.

NOW YOU SEE IT.

AND THE QUESTION IS, HOW DO THE PEOPLE IN LARGE RESPOND TO THIS?

ARE WE GOING TO SAY NO ?

THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM IS NOT SAVING US THE WAY IT SHOULD.

THERE IS A LEVEL OF CORRUPTION AND WE HAVE TO WAKE UP AND SAY WE ARE TIRED OF THIS [BLEEP].

AND IF WE DO IT, OKAY.

IF WE DON'T, WE WILL BE JUST LIKE ALL OTHER THINGS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING.

AND IT IS RELATED TO JAZZ.

IN JAZZ, YOU CAN PUT THE BASE IN.

THE DRUMMER CAN PLAY LOUD.

ONE SOLOIST CAN PLAY 400 COURSES CHORUSES.

THE MUSIC BREAKS DOWN.

YOU HAVE TO BALANCE YOUR FREEDOM TO IMPROVISE WITH RESTRAINT THAT COMES WITH RECOGNIZING OTHER PEOPLE.

DEMOCRACY DIES WHEN YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE NEED FOR LEVELING AND TO CREATE WEALTH FOR EVERYBODY AND TO SEE IN YOUR NEIGHBOR, NOT YOUR ENEMY, BUT A FRIEND .

AND IT LEADS TO MANAGING THEMSELVES.

THAT IS WHAT I HAVE TO DO.

I CAN'T SAY, I'M HERE.

I WILL SOLO ON EVERY TUNE.

EVERY TIME 70 PLAYS , IT IS UNIQUE.

IT IS NOT THE SOLUTION.

WE ARE IN TROUBLE NOW BUT I'M MORE BIG RATED ABOUT IT.

A DOCTORS IS NOT GO TO A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE ARE SICK AND SAY, MAN, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SICK HERE.

COME ON MAN.

YOU ARE THE DOCTOR.

HELP PEOPLE.

SO A LOT OF TALKING GOES ON ABOUT DEMOCRACY.

LET'S SEE .

>> AND SO YOU ARE THE DOCTOR.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW?

>> I'M THE DOCTOR OF DEMOCRACY .

LET'S GO.

>> WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR MUSIC?

>> WE HAVE A WHOLE THREE MONTHS TO DEDICATE TO IT CALLED JAZZ CALL FOR FREEDOM.

WE ARE PUTTING OUT THREE RECORDS.

WE HAD 12 VIDEOS OF YOUNGER AND OLDER PEOPLE OF ALL GENERATIONS SINGING FREEDOM SONGS ABOUT DEMOCRACY .

ANNOUNCING EDUCATION THAT WE ARE GOING TO DO IN MINNESOTA.

WE ARE ALREADY DOING EDUCATION CALLED LET FREEDOM SWING.

WE ARE RELEASING AN ALBUM I DID IN 2017, 2018, CALLED THE EVER FUNKY LOW DOWN.

YOU LISTENED TO THAT, YOU WOULD THINK I WAS WRITING THE BLUEPRINT.

EVER FUNKY FUNKY.

YOU SEE IT PLAY OUT.

>> SO YOU GOT A BIG PIECE OF MUSIC YOU ARE WRITING RIGHT NOW?

>> YES, SIR.

I'M WRITING MY FIFTH SYMPHONY.

IT IS CALLED THE LIBERTY SYMPHONY.

I'M LATE.

I'M ALWAYS LATE.

THAT GIVES ME THE ENERGY TO STAY UP DAY AND NIGHT AND DEALING WITH THIS CELEBRATION OF AMERICA'S 250TH.

AND I WILL DEAL WITH SUBJECTS LIKE I ALWAYS TRY TO DO.

BETTER OF A SERIOUS NATURE.

AND LET'S SEE.

>> YOU ARE DEALING WITH THE 250TH OF THE NATION.

THE LIBERTY SERIES.

HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

>> DEALING WITH MAJOR AMERICAN THEMES AND FORMS.

MY WHOLE TIME OF WRITING MUSIC, I'M DEALING WITH AMERICAN MYTHOLOGY AS EXPRESSED IN MUSIC.

I HAVE CHURCH USE IT, RAGTIME, USE OF THE BLUES.

CELTIC MUSIC AND STUFF THAT COMES OUT AS DIFFERENT VERNACULAR TRADITIONS , LIKE GOSPEL MUSIC.

COUNTRY MUSIC.

BLUEGRASS, TEXAS SWING.

I STUDIED IN --DIFFERENT FORMS OF LATIN MUSIC.

I STUDIED AMERICAN MUSIC MY ENTIRE LIFE .

I PUT ALL OF THESE THINGS IN A CHORUS FORMAT.

THINGS WE HAVE THAT MAKE OUR MUSIC UNIQUE .

AND I'M GOING TO MAKE ANOTHER STATEMENT ABOUT WHO WE ARE AND THE POSSIBILITIES OF US .

IT WON'T ALL JUST BE OPTIMISM.

EVEN THOUGH IT HAS TO BE THAT FOR ME .

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR ME TO WRITE IT.

IT WILL BE OPTIMISM BUT IT WILL ALSO BE MOVEMENTS LIKE, THIS YOU DID, DESPITE THE WORD OF THE LORD.

IT WILL ALSO BE SERIOUS BECAUSE I TAKE ALL OF THIS VERY SERIOUSLY .

>> WYNTON MARSALIS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> WALTER, GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN, ALWAYS.

>> TWO NEW ORLEANS LEGENDS.

FINALLY FOR US, AS WE APPROACH THE MILESTONE OF FOUR YEARS IN UKRAINE, WE HONOR THE BRAVE PEOPLE RESISTING FROM INSIDE RUSSIA.

THIS OR NOBODY AGAINST VLADIMIR PUTIN .

IN A DOCUMENTARY, SET IN A SMALL RUSSIAN TOWN, IT FOLLOWS A TEACHER WHO STANDS UP TO VLADIMIR PUTIN'S WAR PROPAGANDA MACHINE BY DOCUMENTING THE INDOCTRINATION OF SCHOOLCHILDREN .

[ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] .

>> I SAT DOWN WITH DIRECTOR DAVID BORENSTEIN A FEW WEEKS AGO AND HE SPOKE OF THE BRAVERY.

>> SO HE DOESN'T REPRESENT SOMEONE FROM ST.

PETERSBURG.

HE IS A VERY NORMAL PERSON.

AND WHAT HE IS DRIVEN BY IS A COMMITMENT TO HIS STUDENTS.

WANTING THEM TO STAY COMFORTABLE.

WANTING THEM TO KEEP FEELING LIKE THEY HAVE A PLACE TO BELONG .

AND THAT DROVE HIM TO DO THIS .

OVER TWO YEARS OF WORKING TOGETHER, HE HAD A LOT OF RISK TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN .

AND HE JUST FOLLOWED IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH.

HE NEVER WAVERED.

HE SHOT UNDERCOVER.

AT THE END, HE HAD TO FLEE RUSSIA IN ORDER TO GET THE FOOTAGE OUT AND PUT THE FILM OUT INTO THE WORLD .

>> AND HE IS NO LONGER MR.

NOBODY.

NOW AN AWARD-WINNING DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER.

CONGRATULATIONS TO PAVEL, DAVID ON THE WHOLE TEAM.

THAT IS IT FOR THE PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP ON THE SHOW EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP OUR NEWSLETTER ON PBS.

ORG / AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AMANPOUR AND COMPANY ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT !