Amanpour and Company

>>> TURNING NOW TO THE WORLD OF DANCE WITH OUR NEXT GUEST WHO CONTINUES TO BREAK BARRIERS, MISTY COPELAND MADE HISTORY AS THE FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN FEMALE PRINCIPLE DANCER WITH THE AMERICAN BALLET THEATER. SHE'S NOW DETAILING HER JOURNEY TO THE HISTORIC ROLE AND HER RELATIONSHIP WITH THE WOMEN WHO PAVED THE WAY. IT'S IN HER NEW BOOK THE WIND AT MY BACK AND JOSKAND JOINS MICHE MARTIN TO DISCUSS THE ACHIEVEMENTS AND FUTURE IN BALLET. >> THANKS, CHRISTIANE AND MISTY COPELAND, THANKS FOR TALKING WITH US. >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME. >> NOW, I KNOW YOU'RE A PRIMA BALLERINA BUT YOUR STORY COULD BE AN OPERA. I KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEEN YOU IN ALL YOUR GLORY ON STAGE OR PEOPLE THAT SEEN YOU IN YOUR MAGNIFICENT AREA AT A RED CARPET WOULD NEVER KNOW THE STORY THAT BROUGHT YOU TO THIS PLACE. IT'S JUST A REMARKABLE STORY. GROWING UP IN A REALLY UNSTABLE FASHION, LARGELY RAISED BY A SINGLE MOM, ONE OF SIX SIBLINGS. YOU ACTUALLY STARTED BALLET AT AN AGE WHEN MANY KIDS HAVE ALREADY BEEN ON POINT FOR YEARS. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, SOME KIDS START AS EARLY AS 3 AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN START BALLET UNTIL YOU WERE 13. HOW DID THAT HAPPEN AND HOW DID YOU FALL IN LOVE WITH BALLET? >> MY MOTHER MOVED TO CALIFORNIA WHEN I WAS JUST TWO YEARS OLD WITH ME AND MY SIBLINGS TO KANSAS CITY MISSOURI WHERE I WAS BORN AND IT -- THERE WAS JUST CONSTANT MOVING. I WAS IN DIFFERENT SCHOOLS AND I BECAME THIS VERY INTROVERT SHELL OF A PERSON. NOT REALLY HAVING FOUND MY WAY OF EXPRESSING MYSELF AND COMMUNICATING BECAUSE IT WAS NOT VERBALLY. I WAS REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE JUST SPEAKING. AND IT WAS AROUND THE TIME THAT MY MOTHER HAD RECENTLY REMARRIED HER FOURTH HUSBAND AND WE HAD SETTLED IN SAN PEDRO, CALIFORNIA AND I HAD BECOME A MEMBER OF THE BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB OF SAN PEDRO. IT WAS A PLACE MY MOTHER COULD HAVE US GO AND THERE WAS A STABLE PLACE FOR US TO BE AFTER SCHOOL. YEARS OF BEING AT BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB THEY NEVER HAD DANCE THERE AND IT WAS AT 13 YEARS OLD THAT THE LOCAL BALLET TEACHER CAME TO THE BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB LOOKING FOR DIVERSE STUDENTS TO GIVE SCHOLARSHIPS AND BRING INTO HER SCHOOL. I HAPPENED TO BE ONE OF THEM. I WAS PUSHED TO BEING IN A BALLET CLOSE ON A BASKETBALL COURT WEARING GYM CLOTHES NOT IN THE PROPER ATTIRE AND IT WASN'T UNTIL I TOOK THE FIRST CLASS AND MY TEACHER IMMEDIATELY IDENTIFIED I WAS A PRODOGY. THAT WORD MEANT NOTHING TO ME. IT TOOK COAXING TO GET ME TO THE STUDIO. ONCE AT THE STUDIO, I FELL IN LOVE. THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT THE RIGOR, CONSISTENCY, STABILITY, ALL THE THINGS I WAS CRAVING IN MY LIFE BALLET GAVE ME. THIS GRACE AND BEAUTY, IT WAS AN ESCAPE AND A WAY OF EXPRESSION THAT SUITED ME AND WORKED FOR ME AND THE REST IS HISTORY. >> I THINK IT'S MAYA ANGLO WHO SAID YOU CAN'T BE WHAT YOU CAN'T SEE. AT THAT POINT, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SEEN ANYONE REALLY WHO LOOKED LIKE YOU BUT CAN YOU IDENTIFY THE MOMENT AT WHICH YOU SAID TO YOURSELF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I CAN DO, THIS IS SOMETHING I LOVE? >> WHAT IS INTERESTING IS I IMMEDIATELY FELT THAT WITH BALLET. I THINK THAT IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE SUPPORT THAT I HAD. I HAD A TEACHER. IT WAS NOT A WOMAN OF COLOR. SHE WAS A WHITE JEWISH WOMAN BUT HAD A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT MEANT FOR ME TO BE IN THE BALLET WORLD AS A BLACK GIRL. SHE PROTECTED ME IN A LOT OF WAYS FROM THE RACISM THAT WAS HAPPENING AROUND ME AND KIND OF GUARDED ME FROM HEARING AND KNOWING WHAT WAS GOING ON. SO I REALLY HAD THIS INCREDIBLE FREEDOM TO JUST BE A STUDENT AND NOT THINK ABOUT THE THINGS THAT MOST DANCERS OF COLOR ARE THINKING ABOUT IN THE SPACE OF THIS VERY EUROPEAN WHITE WORLD. IT WASN'T UNTIL I BECAME A PROFESSIONAL BALLET DANCER IT HIT ME. >> I'M WONDERING WHEN IT IS YOU GOT THE FIRST MESSAGE THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO DID NOT BELIEVE THAT YOU BELONGED THERE? HOW WAS THAT MESSAGE FIRST COMMUNICATED TO YOU? >> I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO AS A GUEST ARTIST WHEN I WAS 15 YEARS OLD TO SOUTH DAKOTA AND DANCE WITH THIS SMALL BALLET COMPANY AS THE LEAD IN THE NUTCRACKER AND I HAD LEARNED THIS ROLE, GONE, FLEW THERE WITH ONLY A COUPLE DAYS BEFORE MY FIRST PERFORMANCE AND I WAS TOLD THAT I HAD TO PRETEND THAT I DIDN'T KNOW THE CHOREOGRAPHY AND I WAS JUST THERE TO AUDITION FOR THE LEAD. IT WAS VERY CONFUSING FOR ME. EVERYONE WAS REALLY WORRIED THAT BRINGING THIS BLACK GIRL TO THIS WHITE SCHOOL TO DANCE THE LEAD WOULD HAVE CAUSED SUCH AN UPROAR THAT THEY WANTED TO FEEL OUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY WOULD ACCEPT ME AND KIND OF MAKE IT LOOK AS THOUGH I WAS AUDITIONING. THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT I'D EXPERIENCED THAT TYPE OF RESPONSE WITHIN THE BALLET COMMUNITY. BUT ONCE I BECAME A PROFESSIONAL, THESE MICRO AGGRESSIONS AND THINGS I WOULD READ IN REVIEWS OR JUST FROM DANCERS IN THE COMPANY, BOARD MEMBERS, I WOULD HEAR FROM STAFF MEMBERS AT AMERICAN BALLET THEATER I SHOULDN'T BE PERFORMING IN THE BALLET BLANCS, THE WHITE BALLETS. THE SECOND ACT IS WHEN THE ENTIRE COMPANY, THE COURT OF BALLET AND LEAD DANCERS ARE VERY UNIFORMED AND WEAR WHITE FTUTUS AND HAVE SIMILAR COMPLEXION AND I WAS TOLD I WOULD RUIN THE AS THREAT -- ASTHETIC AND LINE AMONGST THESE WHITE DANCERS IN THE BALLET BLANC GENRE. >> I RECOGNIZE YOU HEARD THIS FOR SO MANY YEARS, THIS IS JUST PART OF WHAT YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH BUT FOR PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE WORLD OF BALLET, MANY PEOPLE WOULD FIND THAT ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS AND ABSURD. WHY WOULD PEOPLE THINK THAT? BECAUSE A EUROPEAN WAS SO ENGRAINED? >> WE HAVE TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS BECAUSE WHEN YOU PERFORM IN AMERICA, IN ORDER FOR THE BALLET TO CONTINUE TO STAY RELEVANT TO CONTINUE TO GROW, WE HAVE TO SEE DIVERSITY ON THE STAGE AND BEHIND THE SCENES IN ROOMS FOR PEOPLE TO WANT TO INVEST IN IT AND WANT IT TO CONTINUE ON. SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A WAYS TO GO AND THIS IS MY MISSION SINCE I, YOU KNOW, BECAME A PROFESSIONAL IS EDUCATING BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITY ABOUT WHAT BALLET IS AND THE BEAUTY OF IT AND THEN CREATING A SPACE WHERE THEY FEEL SAFE AND THAT THEY CAN THRIVE WITHIN THIS SPACE. >> ONE OF THE THINGS, THOUGH, THAT I FOUND INTERESTING ABOUT YOUR BOOK IS THAT IT'S SO ENCAPSULATING THE EXPERIENCE OF BEING THE FIRST AND ONLY, NOT JUST IN THE WORLD OF BALLET BUT IN SO MANY OTHER FIELDS. YOU WORKED TEN YEARS AT THE AMERICAN BALLET THEATER. YOU WERE THE ONLY BLACK WOMAN IN THE COMPANY. I WONDERED WHAT -- WERE YOU AWARE OF IT AT THE TIME? DID YOU FEEL THIS EXTRA SENSE OF HAVING TO PERSEVERE EVEN AT THE DIFFICULT TIMES BECAUSE DID YOU FEEL THE WEIGHT OF THE EYES ON YOU AS THE FIRST, THE ONLY FOR SO LONG? >> I WOULD SAY I DIDN'T REALLY FEEL THAT UNTIL THE YEAR THAT I WAS PROMOTED TO PRINCIPLE DANCER. IT WAS 15 YEARS THAT I WAS A DANCER IN THE COMPANY BEFORE I REACHED THE RANK OF PRINCIPLE DANCER. AND IN THAT TIME I JUST FELT -- I UNDERSTOOD MY RESPONSIBILITY. IT NEVER FELT LIKE PRESSURE OR WEIGHT. I WAS JUST PROUD TO BE IN THIS POSITION AND I UNDERSTOOD THAT I MIGHT NOT SEE ANOTHER BLACK WOMAN COME THROUGH THIS COMPANY IN MY LIFETIME SO I'LL TAKE EVERY OPPORTUNITY AND PUSH THROUGH. IT WASN'T UNTIL I -- ALL EYES WERE ON ME IN TERMS OF THE MEDIA AND MY STORY GETTING OUT THERE BEYOND THE BALLET BUBBLE AND REALLY CROSSING OVER INTO POP CULTURE BUT THE NARRATIVE CHANGED IN THAT LAST YEAR BEFORE I WAS PROMOTED, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT WAS LIKE IS MISTY GETTING THESE OPPORTUNITIES BECAUSE SHE'S BLACK? IF SHE GETS PROMOTED -- OR IF SHE DOESN'T EXECUTE THESE TECHNICAL FEATS IN THESE ROLES SHE'S GETTING THE OPPORTUNITY TO DANCE, DOES SHE DESERVE TO BE A PRINCIPLE DANCER? THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN. THERE IS NO WHITE DANCER THAT HAS EXPERIENCED THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN I'M APPROACHING ROLES FOR THE FIRST TIME AND I HAVE "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REVIEWING ME AND PEOPLE WRITING ABOUT MY PERFORMANCES, IT BECAME REALLY OVERWHELMING AND THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I REALLY STARTED TO FEEL THE PRESSURE OF WHAT IT MEANT TO BE IN THAT POSITION. >> ONE OF THE THINGS I LEARNED FROM YOUR BOOK IS LITERALLY TWO DAYS AFTER YOU LAUNCHED ONE OF THE ROLES OF YOUR CAREER IN "FIRE BIRD" YOU HAD TO WITHDRAW BECAUSE YOU WERE GRIEVOUSLY INJURED. YOU HAD SIX STRESS FRACTURES IN YOUR TIBIA? YOU KNEW HOW SERIOUSLY INJURED YOU WERE BUT WENT ON ANYWAY. WHY? >> YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTOOD THAT I HAD TO BE MY OWN ADVOCATE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE COMPANY BEING THE ONLY -- I DIDN'T HAVE PEOPLE -- I DIDN'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP MAKING MISTAKES AND GET ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY. I UNDERSTOOD THAT GETTING THIS CHANCE TO PERFORM THE ROLE OF THE FIRE BIRD, THIS ICONIC ROLE IN A FULL LENGTH CLASSIC L WORK AS A BLACK WOMAN AT 29 WHICH IN BALLET IS ANCIENT AGE IF I DIDN'T GO ON STAGE AND BACKED OUT, THERE WASN'T GOING TO BE A SECOND CHANCE. AND SO I KNEW THAT EVEN IF I JUST GOT ON STAGE ONE TIME, IT COULD COMPLETELY CHANGE THE PERCEPTION OF BLACK WOMEN IN BALLET. IT COULD GIVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO A YOUNG PERSON WHO SAW ME ON THE STAGE AND COULD SEE A FUTURE FOR THEMSELVES WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS BALLET OR WHATEVER IT IS THEY WANT TO DO WHERE IN A SPACE WHERE THEY'RE TOLD THEY CAN'T. I KNEW IT WAS GOING TO MAKE AN IMPACT SO I -- YOU KNOW, IT WAS SEEING THE LINE WRAPPED AROUND THE MET, YOU KNOW, OF BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE SUPPORTING ME THAT GET ME THROUGH THAT PERFORMANCE. ONCE THAT ADRENALINE HIT AND I KNEW WHO WAS IN THE AUDIENCE, THE PAIN WENT AWAY. BUT OF COURSE, IT ALL CAME RUSHING BACK AS SOON AS THE PERFORMANCE WAS OVER AND I KNEW IT MIGHT BE THE LAST PERFORMANCE I EVER PERFORM IF I DON'T -- DIDN'T GO SEE A DOCTOR. >> THIS IS WHERE I THINK THE ROLE OF HISTORY AND MENTORS COME IN BECAUSE ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE WHO DID KNOW HOW SERIOUSLY INJURED YOU WERE WAS YOUR MENTOR RAVIN WILKINSON. I HAVE TO SAY, HER STORY ALONG WITH YOURS, IS UNBELIEVABLE. HOW DID YOU LEARN OF HER? >> YEAH, RAVIN'S JOURNEY HAS BEEN INCREDIBLE. SHE WAS REALLY THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN TO REACH THE RANK OF S SOLOIST. I LEARNED OF HER WATCHING A DOCUMENTARY ON THE MONTE CARLO. I WAS A SOLOIST AT ABT AND SADLY, I WAS NOT AT ALL FAMILIAR WITH WHO SHE WAS. I WATCHED THIS LONG DOCUMENTARY AND TOWARDS THE VERY END, THIS ELOQUENT BEAUTIFUL BLACK WOMAN APPEARED ON THE SCREEN AND STARTED SPEAKING ABOUT HER TIME IN THE COMPANY AND I LITERALLY WAS JUST STOPPED IN MY TRACKS. I COULD NOT BELIEVE THAT I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT HER STORY IN THIS FAMOUS COMPANY. IT MADE ME ANGRY THAT I DIDN'T KNOW THAT HISTORY, MY HISTORY AS A BLACK WOMAN, AS A BLACK PERSON IN BALLET. BUT IT ALSO MADE ME FEEL LIKE I HAD SO MUCH MORE TO FIGHT FOR, THAT I HAD DUTY AND RESPONSIBILITY TO CARRY ON, YOU KNOW, HER JOURNEY. THE OPPORTUNITIES SHE DIDN'T GET BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF HER SKIN. SHE JOINED IN 1955 AS THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN, THE ONLY BLACK WOMAN TO DANCE IN THAT COMPANY. SHE ROSE QUICKLY TO THE RANK OF SOLOIST AND AS YOU SAID, SHE EXPERIENCED A LOT OF RACISM IN THE SOUTH AND HER LIFE WAS BEING THREATENED BY THE KU KLUX KLAN AND IT WAS REALLY PUTTING THE WHOLE COMPANY AT RISK SO EVENTUALLY, THEY -- HER AND THE ARTISTIC DIRECTOR MADE THE DECISION IT WAS TIME FOR HER TO LEAVE. RAVIN MOVERED TO AMSTERDAM AND DANCED WITH THE DUTCH NATIONAL BALLET FOR TEN YEARS AND HAVING A REALLY FULL AND RICH CAREER BUT THIS IS A JOURNEY OF SO MANY BLACK ARTISTS OF HER TIME ESPECIALLY THAT WOULD HAVE TO GO TO EUROPE IN ORDER TO HAVE A CAREER OR TO HAVE SUCCESS AND RAVIN MOVED BACK TO THE STATES AFTER HER TIME IN AMSTERDAM AND COULD NOT GET A JOB IN ANY OTHER CLASSIC L COMPANY AND SO MUCH HAS NOT CHANGED TODAY. YOU KNOW, I THINK ABOUT MICHAELA WHO LITERALLY HAS DONE WHAT RAVIN HAS DONE AS A BLACK DANCER SHE HAD TO MOVE TO AMSTERDAM AND JOIN THE DUTCH NATIONAL BALLET BECAUSE A COMPANY HERE IN AMERICA COULD NOT HERE HER UNTIL MORE RECENTLY BUT THIS, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST IMPORTANT FOR ME TO SHARE RAVIN'S STORY. IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW HER NAME AND THE BLACKBALL REENAS THAT ALLOWED ME TO BE IN THIS POSITION. >> THIS IS BOOK IN PART IS ABOUT HER. YOU WANT THE WORLD TO KNOW HER STORE ARE YOU BY ALSO TAKE PAINS TO LIST THE NAMES TO CALL OUT THE NAMES OF ALL THESE BLACKBALL REENAS WHO PRECEDED YOU AND ALSO THOSE WHO CONTINUE TO PERFORM. CLEARLY, THAT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU. WHY IS THAT SO IMPORTANT TO YOU? >> YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT'S SO MUCH A PART OF WHAT DREW ME TO BALLET WAS BEING A PART OF SOMETHING BIGGER THAN ME. BEING A PART OF AN INCREDIBLE HISTORY AND TRADITION AND THEN FINDING OUT THAT BLACK PEOPLE HAVE HAD A HUGE IMPACT ON THE BALLET COMMUNITY AND CULTURE FOR SO LONG IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR US TO KNOW OUR HISTORY AS BLACK PEOPLE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE SO OFTEN TURNED AWAY OR TOLD THAT WE DON'T BELONG IN CERTAIN SPACES OR THAT IT'S NOT FOR US BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR HISTORY OR YOU DON'T SEE YOURSELF REFLECTED AND OUR STORIES ARE OFTEN ERASED AND NOT DOCUMENTED AND THAT'S THE CASE WITH SO MANY BLACK DANCERS AND BLACK WOMEN IN PARTICULAR. I FEEL IT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY WITH THE REACH I HAVE AND PLATFORM FOR PEOPLE TO HEAR ME AND SEE ME FOR THEM TO KNOW THAT YES, I'M THE FIRST PRINCIPLE BLAC BLACK BALLERINA BUT I'M NOT THE FIRST BLACK. >> THERE IS ANOTHER MILESTONE OR GLASS CEILING, I'M NOT QUITE SURE THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO CAUSE AND THAT IS RETURNING TO BALLET AFTER BECOMING A MOTHER. YOU HAVE A BEAUTIFUL LITTLE BOY NOW TO ENRICH YOUR LIFE AND YOUR HUSBAND'S LIFE. I MEAN, WHAT IS NEXT? HOW DO YOU SEE YOUR CAREER AT THIS POINT? DO YOU PLAN TO GO BACK TO THE STAGE? >> IT'S DIFFICULT TO BE A WORKING WOMAN. A WOMAN THAT WANTS TO HAVE A FAMILY AND THEN STILL BE ABLE TO FOCUS ON HER CAREER AND IT'S EXTREMELY DIFFICULT AS AN ATHLETE. YOU LOOK AT SERENA WILLIAMS AND RETURNING TO TENNIS AND THE DIFFICULTIES OF THAT AND THE FOCUS ON YOUR BODY. BALLERINAS HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR GENERATIONS, HAVING BABIES AND GOING BACK ON STAGE BUT WE DON'T SEE THE WORK AND WHAT IT TAKES, DEDICATION AND COMMITMENT. MY PLAN IS TO BE BACK ON STAGE BY THE FALL, WINTER OF 2023. I THINK I'LL ALWAYS DANCE IN SOME CAPACITY AND I WILL FOREVER BE A PART OF THE BALLET COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH SPEAKING, WRITING BOOKS, JUST ADVOCATING FOR BLACK DANCERS IN BALLET THROUGH MY FOUNDATION OF THE MISTY COPELAND FOUNDATION, I'LL FOREVER REMAIN PART OF BALLET IN SOMEWAY. >> MISTY COPELAND, THANK YOU FOR TALKING TO US. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.